Vaccination - Split from Microchipped Babies

[Taomeow]

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Edited July 27, 2015 by Taomeow

[dust]

Did you know you got mercury in each shot?  You did.  It was just called something else.  Thimerosal.  And no one offered the baby, or her parents, to read the small print. 

 

You make it sound like people were being injected directly with liquid mercury!

 

Thiomersal is a compound,

like salt - which we ingest in lots of things, but the 2 main elements of which are dangerous when encountered alone

or amygdalin - which is found in apples, but will not kill us in such small doses...

 

 

There may well be some harmful side effects to our vaccine addiction, but thus far vaccines have mostly served to obliterate a bunch of horrible diseases from the face of the Earth and prevent most of us from catching many of the ones that are left...

[vonkrankenhaus]

Microchipping was in the media a lot back in the 90s. There were stories about microchipping pets, children, old people, etc, etc.

 

This was during the time cell phones were being distributed to just about everyone in the world.

 

Scare you with the chip stories - but cell phone looks good?

 

Cell phone is a GPS locator that tells where you are, what you say (can be turned on as live microphone remotely), who you contact and what they say, and provides identifying photos and videos, and so on. Much better than any "microchip".

 

And, immunizations - there is mercury in them. Kids get about 72 shots, sometimes up to 9 in one visit to "catch up" - this is above recommended exposure to mercury.

 

There is aluminum in them. And GMO ingredients, and toxic chemical adjuvants like squalene.

 

Not one vaccine manufacturer guarantees either the safety or the effectiveness of any vaccine.

 

And this policy is backed up by a special court set up to limit the number of lawsuits due to "adverse events". There may be thousands of applicants to sue the government for mandating a vaccine, but only 50 cases will be heard in a given year, and the "rules" of this court process stop most cases before being accepted.

 

It is impossible to prove that any vaccine prevented any disease. Logically and technically impossible.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited February 28, 2015 by vonkrankenhaus

[dust]

Don't be silly

[dust]

It's "logically and technically impossible" to prove many of the things people here on The Dao Bums believe, but that doesn't stop people believing them. As far as vaccines... well, I'd say the evidence is fairly conclusive.

 

Smallpox has been eradicated. Obliterated, removed from existence.

 

Polio has been eliminated in many parts of the world.

 

A number of other diseases have been brought under control.

 

 

As far as this mercury thing...

 

...the FDA conducted a comprehensive review of the use of thimerosal in childhood vaccines. Conducted in 1999, this review found no evidence of harm from the use of thimerosal as a vaccine preservative, other than local hypersensitivity reactions (Ball et al. 2001).

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"Smallpox has been eradicated. Obliterated, removed from existence."

-----

 

Actually, many cases have remained, and all due to the vaccine.

 

And, there is no hard evidence that ANY reduction of ANY disease has been due to a vaccine. LOTS of assumption and propaganda, but there is no way to prove these claims. Look on the package inserts for any vaccine.

 

Disease and contagion are related to sanitation, and reductions in disease have been largely and often due to changes in things like hospital sanitation, better sewage systems (not tossing "chamber pots" into the street, etc), and media campaigns regarding water sources and other municipal changes.

 

Polio?

 

http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/08/bill-gates-polio-vaccine-program-caused-47500-cases-of-paralysis-death/

 

"“In 1976, Dr. Jonas Salk, creator of the killed-virus vaccine used in the 1950s, testified that the live-virus vaccine (used almost exclusively in the U.S. from the early 1960s to 2000) was the ‘principal if not sole cause’ of all reported polio cases in the U.S. since 1961 "

 

Also, google "SV40 virus" and take a look at the book "The Virus and the Vaccine" about how millions (about 100 million) of doses of polio vaccine were contaminated with a cancer-causing simian virus, and kept from the public.

 

There is still a lot for people to learn about vaccinations, so I will stop here and let them. Most of what they "know" has been pure propaganda.

 

And the FDA - look into the politics of it, and who is involved, before you believe them or assume they are protecting you.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[dust]

Well, I don't assume the FDA is protecting me as I'm in the UK. But I do have a certain amount of faith in the NHS. Above anything else, I do not believe that a useless and potentially dangerous form of medicine would have been adopted all over the world and hailed as one of mankind's greatest inventions.

 

If you really have that much mistrust for the medical field, I presume you don't bother with doctors or Western medicine generally?

 

It is my opinion that, first and foremost, people should concern themselves with living a natural and active lifestyle (eating healthily, doing physical things, not sitting around all the time, not being afraid to go outside and get cold and wet and dirty, etc) and being sanitary (washing hands regularly, not shitting where one eats, etc). But beyond this, as an added defense, immunising oneself /children against certain diseases is clearly effective.

 

 

 

 

And, there is no hard evidence that ANY reduction of ANY disease has been due to a vaccine. LOTS of assumption and propaganda, but there is no way to prove these claims. Look on the package inserts for any vaccine.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3320452/figure/F4/

There was an outbreak of smallpox in Liverpool in 1902. This diagram shows death rates for vaccinated and unvaccinated. Are you going to ignore this, I wonder, or claim that it's propaganda?

 

 

Why, for well over 100 years, would people have been promoting and accepting vaccines if there was no evidence for their efficacy?

 

 

Disease and contagion are related to sanitation, and reductions in disease have been largely and often due to changes in things like hospital sanitation, better sewage systems (not tossing "chamber pots" into the street, etc), and media campaigns regarding water sources and other municipal changes.

 

Yes, but they're not just about sanitation.

 

Rates of disease were decreasing before vaccines were introduced. People were learning how to be more sanitary. But sometimes, it just doesn't matter how clean your hands/water/streets are. A perfectly clean and healthy person can catch a cold, or HIV, or a number of other things, in a perfectly clean and fresh environment, if just one other person is infected (and they get sneezed on, or have sexual contact, or whatever).

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"Well, I don't assume the FDA is protecting me as I'm in the UK. But I do have a certain amount of faith in the NHS. Above anything else, I do not believe that a useless and potentially dangerous form of medicine would have been adopted all over the world and hailed as one of mankind's greatest inventions."

-----

 

Try This:

 

http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/10/the-vaccine-hoax-is-over-freedom-of-information-act-documents-from-uk-reveal-30-years-of-coverup/

 

A quote:

 

"Freedom of Information Act in the UK filed by a doctor there has revealed 30 years of secret official documents showing that government experts have

 

1. Known the vaccines don’t work
2. Known they cause the diseases they are supposed to prevent
3. Known they are a hazard to children
4. Colluded to lie to the public
5. Worked to prevent safety studies

 

Those are the same vaccines that are mandated to children in the US."

 

 

-----

"Why, for well over 100 years, would people have been promoting and accepting vaccines if there was no evidence for their efficacy?"

-----

 

Because they have been stupfied into letting dishonest authorities think for them.

 

It wasn't because "people" are perceptive experts on human environment and biology.

 

Maybe they saw the incidence of cancer and other degenerative diseases go up to include almost everyone and got confused into calling this progress, I dunno - but they have been duped and diminished in the process.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited March 1, 2015 by vonkrankenhaus

[phore]

 

 

Yes, but they're not just about sanitation.

 

Rates of disease were decreasing before vaccines were introduced. People were learning how to be more sanitary. But sometimes, it just doesn't matter how clean your hands/water/streets are. A perfectly clean and healthy person can catch a cold, or HIV, or a number of other things, in a perfectly clean and fresh environment, if just one other person is infected (and they get sneezed on, or have sexual contact, or whatever).

 

Actually sanitation has been the cause of many of the diseases like polio that sprung up around the 1900s.  The dumping of waste in the streets gave people plenty of opportunity to build up immunity to a large range of pathogens.  After the cleanup movement where sewers were standardized and measures of cleanliness were increased, the immunity to these diseases dropped off and eventually allowed the widespread epidemics to occur. 

 

http://www.nextnature.net/2014/01/how-modern-sanitation-gave-us-polio/

 

Antibacterial soap is more recent example of increased sanitation standards.  The use of the antibiotics in antibacterial soap causes bacteria to develop antibiotic resistance to these products on a large scale.  Any bacteria that have mutated to resist antibiotics will survive the antibacterial soap and live to re-propagate its species, with its mutated genes. 

 

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm378393.htm

[Taomeow]

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Edited July 27, 2015 by Taomeow

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

one more point to the "Vaccinations are a scam" party...
But i've always been one-up of that; I'm in the "all pharmicuticals are scams" party...    But i believe in internal alchemy and individual-medicine.

Medicine is food; food is medicine; drugs are bad mm'kay?

[dust]

I wonder if these documents really exist.

 

I'm going to be really surprised if it turns out that the end of the most recent cycle of each of these diseases just happened to correspond with the advent of vaccines.

 

Perhaps I've been misled, though I still doubt it. You have not responded to any of the information in my last post, only the rhetorical questions I posed.

 

If you have any actual evidence, that I can see with mine own eyes, for a 200-year international government conspiracy to inject us all with poison, and the reasons that statistics (all the ones I've seen) clearly show that the decrease of certain diseases appears to correlate very closely with public use of their vaccines...... I'd love to see it..

 

edit:

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of government, or society in general, and I know that there have been many experiments done on people in the name of science which only served to make them sick. I wouldn't say it was too evil to believe of people. I just think it's incredibly unlikely.

Edited March 1, 2015 by dustybeijing

[Taomeow]

,

Edited July 27, 2015 by Taomeow

[vonkrankenhaus]

Here are some studies all in one place (there are more elsewhere):

http://www.fourteenstudies.org/studies.html

 

Here are two available books with much information:

 

The Virus and the Vaccine

http://www.amazon.com/The-Virus-Vaccine-Contaminated-Government/dp/0312342721

 

The Vaccine Epidemic

http://www.vaccineepidemic.com/

 

Really though, if this issue about vacines is making anyone curious, then by all means, go and do plenty of fact-finding for oneself. I mention these sources above because they are well-known introductions to the issue. But if anyone looks beyond the mainstream media and TV for information, there is mountains of info of all types - studies, court testimony, people's experiences, etc.

 

Most believers in vaccines I meet haven't usually looked much, or at all, beyond the easiest, and most biased, sources of information, considering it all a "done deal" - but parents who have children who have died or been damaged from vaccination are much more motivated.

 

I can't really respond to the 1903 smallpox epidemic, because I wasn't there and know nothing of conditions then really. I don't know what else changed then, nor what was done by the unvaccinated.

 

Regarding the idea that sanitation played a large part in the eradication of disease, consider that polio is mainly transmitted by fecal particles. So is cholera. So is hepatitis. Others, too.

 

Not too long ago (and still) municipalities were pumping untreated sewage into various bodies of water. In fact, not long before that, people were still tossing chamber pots out into the gutter.

 

Wonder what restaurant kitchen sterilization was like in 1903. Lots of regulation happen now that just wasn't there in 1903.

 

And we could write about bogus "herd immunity" stuff, or that if vaccinations work, how come up so many of the people affected in various outbreaks were vaccinated for that disease but still got it - but all this info is out there for anyone to see.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Taomeow]

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Edited July 27, 2015 by Taomeow

[dust]

http://www.naturalnews.com/011764.html

 

I guess you're saying all countries in the world that banned thimerosal were as biochemically clueless as you suppose I am.

 

No more clueless than they must be about all the other dangerous poisons in vaccines that we're still recklessly injecting our children with...

 

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/pages/vaccine-ingredients.aspx

 

 

...no harmful effects have been linked with the level of thiomersal used in such small amounts in vaccines.

Although there have been concerns in the past that thiomersal-containing vaccines can cause autism, there is no scientific evidence that this is the case.

The World Health Organization (WHO) has stated that there is no risk from thiomersal in vaccines.

...

Thiomersal is no longer used in any of the vaccines routinely given to babies and young children in the NHS childhood immunisation programme.

 

So not only is it not considered to be dangerous, the government has banned it anyway because so many clueless people were making a fuss about it.

 

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/mercury-in-vaccines-and-autism-a-failed-hypothesis/

[dust]

Here are some studies all in one place (there are more elsewhere):

http://www.fourteenstudies.org/studies.html

 

Study 2:

A total of 956 children with a male-to-female ratio of 3.5:1 had been diagnosed with autism during the

period from 1971–2000. There was no trend toward an increase in the incidence of autism during that period

when thimerosal was used in Denmark, up through 1990. From 1991 until 2000 the incidence increased and contin-

ued to rise after the removal of thimerosal from vaccines, including increases among children born after the dis-

continuation of thimerosal

 

So 2 of the 7 authors were employees of a vaccine manufacturer.. and I'm supposed to believe that this potential conflict is enough to have skewed very clear results how, exactly?

 

 

Sudy 3

 

The exclusion of thimerosal from childhood vaccines inthe United States was accelerated from 1999 to 2001...

Study of time trends in the prevalence by age and birth cohort of children with autism who were active status clients of the DDS from January 1, 1995, through March 31, 2007...

The estimated prevalence of autism for children at each year of age from 3 to 12 years increased throughout the study period.

 

So the study was supported by the California DPH.. and this means that both of the authors are compromised?

http://www.ehib.org/person.jsp?person_key=67

Judith Grether is interested in autism, not in linking autism to something other than vaccines.

 

 

 

Seems to me that any possible idea of "conflict" is leapt upon and used as a reason that these studies could not possibly be valid in any respect... even though all of the data seems to me to clearly show that thimerosal did not cause autism.

 

I'm not going to look at any more because it seems to be a waste of time.

 

 

Most believers in vaccines I meet haven't usually looked much, or at all, beyond the easiest, and most biased, sources of information, considering it all a "done deal" - but parents who have children who have died or been damaged from vaccination are much more motivated.

 

Most anti-vaccine people I meet seem to believe that the entire world is involved in a centuries-long conspiracy to inject their children with poison for no particular reason. I still don't get it.

 

 

Regarding the idea that sanitation played a large part in the eradication of disease, consider that polio is mainly transmitted by fecal particles. So is cholera. So is hepatitis. Others, too.

 

Yes. So?

 

 

Wonder what restaurant kitchen sterilization was like in 1903. Lots of regulation happen now that just wasn't there in 1903.

 

Seriously..? You can clearly see the numbers... Death rate was 25%-100% higher for the unvaccinated, and you're suggesting that this is some kind of coincidence because everyone who died went to a restaurant with an unsterilised kitchen?

 

 

And we could write about bogus "herd immunity" stuff, or that if vaccinations work, how come up so many of the people affected in various outbreaks were vaccinated for that disease but still got it - but all this info is out there for anyone to see.

 

It's vaccination, not 100%-foolproof immunisation.

[blue eyed snake]

hmm, I think I've seen this discussion before.

Being one of the mums who was confronted with an 'overreacting' child I did some research and have made choices. Leading in that choice was the following question: If my child gets the illness that I didn't have him vaccinated for, would I be able to look him squarely in the eye when he's grown up.

 

at the time I did my digging children were vaccinated against Diftery/ Polio/Tetanus/ whooping cough ( in one shot) andlater for mumps/rubella/measles ( in one shot)

 

In my country the percentage of vaccination is about 95%, It's not compulsory but you get a whole lot of pressure when you won't let your child be vaccinated. A small minority of devout christians, all living in the same towns, attending the same schools etc, decline all vaccinations. Makes an interesting natural controlgroup. Large families with strict rules, every child in line washes hands before eating, i'm quite sure of that

 

several questions arise,

 

1) is vaccination effective in the sense that it prevents epidemic episodes of an illness. This question should be taken apart in about which vaccins we're talking about. This  is about group-effects.

 

2)what are the side-effects, are these effects caused by the vaccin itself or by other components, this splits up in both group and individual effect.

 

3)what should be the main reason for vaccinating.

 

4)What are the reasons for vaccinating about everybody in a country. Are they medical or economical.

 

5)Are vaccinating schemes  set up for the health of the individual or for the needs of the group.

 

6) vaccination and autism

-----

1) is vaccination effective in the sense that it prevents epidemic episodes of an illness. This question should be taken apart in about which vaccins we're talking about. This  is about group-effects.

 

1) What I've observed: vaccinating against polio and measles is effective. In both diagrams what is measured is the total of registered patients in a given year. registering is compulsary for these illnesses, doctors take care of that.

Polio  

http://www.rivm.nl/dsresource?objectid=rivmp:259393&versionid=&disposition=inline

 

Vaccination-program started in 1957, the small outbursts later where all in the christian region beforementioned, the later ones I do remember.

 

Measles, some 15/20 (i think) years ago there was a publication that added up to an increased risk for autism due to measlesvaccin. I remember that both in holland but especially in the UK the vaccination-percentage dropped measurable and the occurance of measles rised accordingly. 

 

http://www.rivm.nl/dsresource?objectid=rivmp:259464&versionid=&disposition=inline

 

 

This diagram starts with the year vaccinating started. Before that time virtually everybody got measles as a child. The 2013 peak was, again, this small christian group. The other ones i'm not sure of but mostly when small epidemics occur it is either this christian group or antroposophic schools that are at the center. For me this is conclusive.

 

I'm less conclusive about the flu though, 

-----

 

2)what are the side-effects, are these effects caused by the vaccin itself or by other components, this splits up in both group and individual effect.

 

Vaccins should be prepared with utmost care, for me it's clear that is not so. Inclusion of something as thimerosal is exemplary. Even if no sideeffects are measured it's always better to be very careful. More examples are mentioned in other posts.

The sideefects of the vaccinating itself, up to 5 % of the babies produce overreaction on DKTP. In the worst cases leading to death, brain-damage, convulsions. most of these five percent produce prolonged high fever (for weeks to months). Doktors say that this is due to the wooping cough part, but as far as I know there is no scientific evidence for this statement.

 

All children get sick, most are more or less better after 24/48 hours

 

the vaccination against childhood diseases produces less horrible results as far as i know.

But what are the side-effects on the longterm for this vaccination? After the introduction of this vaccin new viruses sprouted. called the fifth and the sixt illness. Fever and red spots, what ( if any) is won by vaccinating against childhood diseases when new ones come up? There are doktors who say that our immunesystem needs childhooddiseases to get strong and healthy. I've read that people who have had illnesses with high fever are less prone to get cancer. I don't know but I ask myself, is it worth it?

 

----

 

3)what should be the main reason for vaccinating.

 

well, in my opinion, reason for vaccinating ( as a group thing) is preventing large groups of people to die or become lifelong handicapped. Polio, diftery tetanus and wooping cough conform to this. ( especially babies have a strong risk of dying of wooping cough)

 

---

 

4)What are the reasons for vaccinating about everybody in a country. Are they medical or economical.

 

 childhood diseases?

 

when I was about 12 I got vaccinated against rubella, getting rubella when you're pregnant has severe consequence for the unborn child, is a good reason for vaccinating to me.

But why boys? and why when you're a toddler? rubella is not something life-threatening, you're just sick for a week or so, so what.

 

same for mumps and boys.

 

measles. yeah, you get real sick, i remember, is part of life and you better get it young .

 

I 'm not in for conspiracies but in my opinion these childhood diseases are handled in this way because of economical reasons. Mum and dad can go to their jobs instead of caring for a sick child. ( I remember my mum, we were six children and had the measles one after another. My mum was a working mum, rare in those days. After my first sister was better she told my dad: the next who gets it is your turn   )

 

But it would be a good idea to vaccinate girls for rubella ( and humane paplilomavirus) and boys for mumps when the're say about 11 and didn't have it before.

 

---

 

5)Are vaccinating schemes  set up for the health of the individual or for the needs of the group.

well, in my country the schemes are set up for easy group-handling. As much as possible is done before the fourth birthday, together with regular checkups on growth and development. this is not done by familydoctors but by a special department solely having this function. A lot of young mothers still believe that having your child vaccinated is compulsory ( even though in the last ten years things have changed) The later shots were given at school, but they have changed that now to getting all the kids of a regio to a sport-hall or some such, horrible

 

for my child I decided to go through with DKTP, but on a carefully stretched out scheme that my family-doctor cooked up. He didn't get the childhood-disease-shot. Doctor and me planned to give him a shot for mumps when he was 11. But at that time single shots for mumps ( or anything) weren't available anymore. And I've been pestered by 'officials' telling me I ' had to do it their way'...But, those women ( mostly) sincerely believed what they were telling me, and that goes high up in the medical department. I do not believe that it's a conspiracy, just stupidity....

 

-----

 

6) vaccination and autism

 

yeah, it was bound to come up...and it's my department....

 

The first research that stirred things up was faulty, but looking back I'm very happy with it. because it has woken up a lot of people to think about what vaccinations are, what they are for, etc.. and we have internet now, making it easier for people to find out things.

 

I've read several of the later publications on this topic, carefully, not only the abstract and the discussion-section, all of it. They must still be somewhere in my study. I didn't find the results conclusive

 

---

 

well, that's my take, somewhere in-between...always looking for balance

 

 

edit: some faulty wording, no change in content

Edited March 2, 2015 by blue eyed snake

[Taomeow]

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Edited July 27, 2015 by Taomeow

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"You can't prove that you didn't get any of the diseases you didn't get due to having been vaccinated.  All you can do by way of proof is choose to believe it.  It's your religion, in other words...  "

-----

 

This is quite obvious in people who have already submitted their children to be vaccinated, as you pointed out.

 

But what about parents of children who have been vaccinated but then actually came down with that disease in one of these "outbreaks"? In some of the outbreaks it is a large percentage of those who become sick despite having been vaccinated. They don't get much press, but these people are out there.

 

In terms of "autism" and vaccines, look into Amish communities. There is one community of about 35,000 people, and this community did not vaccinate. They had one case of "autism" - a child who had been taken away by social services and force-vaccinated.

 

There is not any group or community that does not vaccinate that also has a "normal" percentage of children diagnosed with autism. I myself am interested to find one, but I have not so far.

 

There was recently, in the media, said to be a measles epidemic in an Amish community where I know one of the midwives who service and live in this community. The news media told how these people fearfully lined up for vaccinations due to the epidemic, and so forth, but the account I got from an eyewitness there sounded completely different.

 

Someone quoted statement that thimerisol is "no longer used in any of the vaccines routinely given to babies and young children in the NHS childhood immunisation programme." It is actually still in flu shots, which are given to pregnant mothers and all kinds of people. Old lots of the thimerisol-containing vaccines were also used up and not thrown away, and also sold in other countries.

 

It has also been replaced by aluminum, which is also an accumulative neurotoxin.

 

This is something like the way that lead was removed from gasoline and replaced with manganese:

 

http://www.psr.org/chapters/boston/health-and-environment/mmt-manganese-in-gasoline.html

 

Of course, manganese is a neurotoxin too.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[blue eyed snake]

Oh, yes, I forgot this appeal to the vulnerabilities and emotions of the mother, the skillful manipulation of maternal guilt and shame they use on the brainwashee parent.  How could I.   I used to agonize over this very question myself.  That was when I believed that vaccines "protect," and "reactions" may have to be accepted as the price to pay for this protection.  I also heard this line from the doctor whom I was trying to convince to give my children an exemption because of bad reactions to vaccines when I finally decided (although still believing that vaccines are what we are told they are for, and work the way we are told they work) that I would rather look them in the eye being guilty of a childhood disease later than pretend I don't know that the terrifying reactions "now" have something to do with the "protective" shots. 

 

I've never agonized about this decision, not to vaccinate against childhood diseases was clear from the start. That's the decision of the parents, simple.

 

When the baby had prolonged fever from the first DKTPshot I first talked it over with his father. He brought up this statement: can you explain to him which choices you made to him when he's grown up. I found and still find this a good point of view making choices for a child.

 

When I asked these nurses how long the second shot could be postponed they said it couldn't  because it was together with the childhood-disease-shot. I told them my boy wouldn't get that shot. Then they told me that my baby probably would die if I denied him the shots. 

So I shut the door on them, I don't take that kind of bullshit

The nurses from the childrens-health-department were indeed dreadful, but to me, they're just repeating what is taught to them. They didn't know any better themselves, and that is, indeed, a bad thing. I was already fed up with them because of their continuing critics of the way I fed and reared my child. So I told them that the vaccinating program would further be in the hands of my familydoctor. No fuss, no guilt nor shame or agonizing.

 

I've been talking to our familydoctor about it and he simply offered information, on chances to get a disease, of dying or getting invalidated by it. Those chances were smaller than I thought but imo still too large. I live close to people who don't vaccinate at all. He let me choose between no vaccination, vaccination without wooping cough, or vaccination with a reduced amount of fluid. Both of the last with a longer periods inbetween. After talking it through we ( dad and I) made our choice and i still feel that is the right choice. Would do exactly the same today.

 

And i do accept that children get ill from these vaccinations, it's no more than logical that the body reacts on getting dead virus, that's the intent, getting the immune-system to work. And the other compounds are not healthy, no, that's true. But it it's still my choice, i prefer these smaller risks to the bigger risk involved in getting polio, or diftery.

[blue eyed snake]

and I want to thank Von Krankenhaus for several websites he posted, interesting stuff

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"Most anti-vaccine people I meet seem to believe that the entire world is involved in a centuries-long conspiracy to inject their children with poison for no particular reason. I still don't get it."

-----

 

I think it is because there is actually far more evidence for such a conspiracy than there is evidence that vaccines are safe and effective.

 

Not one vaccine manufacturer gurantees any vaccine to be either safe or effective.

 

And a special court has been set up to limit cases of injury due to vaccines, essentially limiting (eliminating) liability on the part of the manufacturers (drug companies).

 

There are so many incidences where toxins are sold to people in medicine, in food, in consumer goods, and scores of examples where the public has been lied to about the dangers. Hard to believe it was all "accidental" - especially when one looks into how these things happened.

 

Lead in gasoline could have been replaced by ethanol but wasn't, because prohibition supposedly made ethanol an illegal substance. Lead has been known to be dangerous since at least the Roman Empire, but it took another 50+ years before lead was removed from gasoline. And the "unleaded" gasoline that activists fought for is actually gasoline containing manganese, substituting poison for poison and turning the label "unleaded" into a joke.

 

The BPA in baby bottles (and cans for canned food, etc) has in many cases been replaced in "BPA-free" containers with BPS:

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bpa-free-plastic-containers-may-be-just-as-hazardous/

 

This stuff has been going on for a very long time. Lead was used in eating and drinking ware in colonial times by commoners, while silver was used by the elite. People drank hard cider and rum in these pewter mugs. Cider contains citric acid and alcohol, both solvents, and these leach lead into solution and are drunk by the commoners.

 

I researched the supposed Marie Antionette quote "Let them eat cake". Turns out they talked about "cake" for commoners in America too. I visited old colonial taverns, historically preserved, where poor people lined up at the back of these taverns at the end of the day to obtain free "flue cake". Poor people ate it, and less-poor people gave it to their farm animals to make them more docile. Turns out that this "cake" was the result of thinned bread dough batter being spread in the flue of cooking fireplaces to keep the brick mortar from falling into the bread, and to regulate humidity during baking. This dough accumulates fluorine compounds from the combustion in the fireplace - it is fluoride cake.

 

Not long after aluminum was implicated in "dialysis dementia", most soft drink and beer cans were switched from steel to aluminum. (People were also spraying very fine powdered aluminum right into their own faces in aerosol antiperspirants). Note that the major sponsor of the Alzheimer's Association of America is ALCOA, the largest aluminum company.

 

This all just a small few of these things. Much more is available for anyone to research.

 

I think the serious researcher will find that yes, we are being poisoned in an amazing number of ways, and have been for a long time.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[thelerner]

My research indicates vaccines have saved the lives of 10's of millions and prevented the suffering of many more.  I'm not saying all vaccines are equally good, I'm glad the mercury compound used as a preservative was abandoned.  All in all, in total imo we're much better for having vaccination. 

 

For me a no brainer, small pox, malaria, measles used to kill off millions of people a year.  Polio was a terrible scourge that killed and crippled 100s of thousand.  Whooping cough similarly.  My hat is off to vaccination, in my opinion its fantastic.  I think without them we'd return to the dark old days when millions died and suffered needlessly. 

 

I think the serious researcher, looking at the numbers will find vaccination is the way to go.   I'm glad the Chinese have looked at the data and are vaccinating.  A country without a huge medical industry persuaded by the facts. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by thelerner

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"My research indicates vaccines have saved the lives of 10's of millions and prevented the suffering of many more. "

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Such a statistic would be logically impossible to obtain.

 

It is "opinion" (and you are certainly entitled to have your own opinion)

 

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"For me a no brainer, small pox, malaria, measles used to kill off millions of people a year."

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Yes, a "no-brainer" - there is no vaccine for malaria.

 

That's not very serious "research".

 

Measles is a common adjustment sickness that usually appears not long after weaning. It is the burning off of factors from the mother's blood and lymph (breast milk) after the transition from this blood-based food to vegetal foods. The virus is part of the body's activity in doing this.

 

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"A country without a huge medical industry persuaded by the facts."

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A country with a large number of people to manage, and the resources to manage them.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus