Work life interfering with practice?

[Stosh]

When the most enthralling action to observe is grazing sheep, rocking waves,blowing sand ..im thinking reflection on ones self would be inevitable. But youre right that I couldnt say for sure.

I do know firsthand the many diversions which entertain now, which just werent around just a lifelength ago.

A tricky thing about self evaluation , if it becomes an exercise of dividing into moral goods and bads ,, it sidesteps further inquiry. Similarly,

If one has a god that dictates good vs bad, theres no arguing with him.

Its just judgement which really isnt listening.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Stosh

[Rara]

Just focus on your lower dan tian while talking to people. Returning the light around while talking with others takes time and practice.

 

Haha I practice all day so there are times where I'm quiet and people call me out on it. I usually make an excuse but sometimes I think I should just laugh as a response.

Well, yes! It's all well and good me talking about breathing and dan tien etc but admittedly, I'm still a bit "manic panic"...as I say, it comes with the industry. It's quite intense.

 

And I get that! The moment I am practicing, people say "what's wrong?". Either I'm doing something wrong that makes me look miserable...or perhaps it's just them.

 

Either way, I can't be bothered to keep smiling and jumping up and down every day anymore. If the industry needs that from me then they will have to be a bit disappointed in future.

[Coaster]

It's worth noting that for thousands of years, up until the end of World War 2, spirituality was only practiced by full-time monks, or sometimes by independently wealthy people who had plenty of time (e.g. upper class).

 

Upper class leisure activities then were trickled down to the masses, largely for the reason of providing income to entrepreneurs.

 

Spiritual practice got swept along by that phenomenon.

 

A lot of them are not really suited to part-time practice.  For example, I spent 10 years doing Tibetan Buddhism, and eventually came to the conclusion that it was entirely constructed for monks, and was unsuited for householders (YMMV).

 

+++

 

Ironically, the advancement of technology means that we each have less time than before - just the opposite of the marketing promotion of "time and labor saving gadgets".

 

Compare making a phone call in 1990 to making a phone call today.  In 1990, press the seven digits (perhaps look it up in a pocket address book), and the person either answers or it goes to an answering machine.  At the end of the month, a paper bill arrives and you write a check and put on a stamp.

 

In 2015, you first have to decide between iPhone and Android.  If you are rigorous, that could take dozens of hours of reading threads and reviews.  Then you have to choose between Verizon, AT&T, Tmobile, Sprint, etc. - more hours of threads.  Then you have to choose whether you want a feature phone or a full-on smartphone, and then many more hours of threads of which model.  Then you have to decide which plan, whether your minutes are rolling or not, whether pay-as-you-go or monthly.

 

Okay, so you can make a call - oh wait, there was a new iOS (or Android) version and now your phone does not work properly.  More hours with customer service and thread reading and finally you have it working.

 

Finally, you turn the phone on... and no bars !

 

That's just one way in which entrepreneurship is based on making other people use more of their time.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Coaster

[Rara]

It's worth noting that for thousands of years, up until the end of World War 2, spirituality was only practiced by full-time monks, or sometimes by independently wealthy people who had plenty of time (e.g. upper class).

 

Upper class leisure activities then were trickled down to the masses, largely for the reason of providing income to entrepreneurs.

 

Spiritual practice got swept along by that phenomenon.

 

A lot of them are not really suited to part-time practice. For example, I spent 10 years doing Tibetan Buddhism, and eventually came to the conclusion that it was entirely constructed for monks, and was unsuited for householders (YMMV).

 

+++

 

Ironically, the advancement of technology means that we each have less time than before - just the opposite of the marketing promotion of "time and labor saving gadgets".

 

Compare making a phone call in 1990 to making a phone call today. In 1990, press the seven digits (perhaps look it up in a pocket address book), and the person either answers or it goes to an answering machine. At the end of the month, a paper bill arrives and you write a check and put on a stamp.

 

In 2015, you first have to decide between iPhone and Android. If you are rigorous, that could take dozens of hours of reading threads and reviews. Then you have to choose between Verizon, AT&T, Tmobile, Sprint, etc. - more hours of threads. Then you have to choose whether you want a feature phone or a full-on smartphone, and then many more hours of threads of which model. Then you have to decide which plan, whether your minutes are rolling or not, whether pay-as-you-go or monthly.

 

Okay, so you can make a call - oh wait, there was a new iOS (or Android) version and now your phone does not work properly. More hours with customer service and thread reading and finally you have it working.

 

Finally, you turn the phone on... and no bars !

 

That's just one way in which entrepreneurship is based on making other people use more of their time.

And now you can charge said phone with "Qi"! XD

[Rara]

When you change, people notices that change and automatically assume there is something wrong. For example, if a person smiles all the time, then they stop smiling as much. You'll automatically think that they're depressed.

 

Maybe it's time to switch careers if it's making you feel horrible.

 

The industry that you work in really makes your nerves run crazy. Some people like that. But once you realize how your body feels and how your nerves is running on overdrive, you make a choice. Either keep doing what you do, modify what you're changing, or quit.

 

You can use cultivation to complement what you're doing. For example, you can learn how to relax your nerves and strengthen your system so that you can handle the fast pace life you're living.

 

You can explain to people that you have a high stressed life and this is what I do to calm down. If they say that you need to be more like them, that's more about control. Show patience and compassion towards them regardless.

Oh absolutely. Now doubt, this is what got me in to practicing in the first place...it keeps me on the path. So many other debauched lives out there, it's so easy to fall in!

 

I'm open about my meditation and martial arts practice. I do lots of marketing and clients know first thing that I'm not a materialistic guy. They just need to know that I like the game and play it well ... as long as the job gets done to a decent quality, it doesn't bother them how I am.

 

The thing that needs tweaking is ensuring that I cultivate 24/7, rather than at intervals.

 

Nice to hear your thoughts Malikshreds! I am very contemplative now

[Coaster]

I'm open about my meditation and martial arts practice. I do lots of marketing and clients know first thing that I'm not a materialistic guy. They just need to know that I like the game and play it well

But that is what it is about for all the people we call "materialistic".   No one goes out to make $100 million so that they can buy $100 million of specific things like cars.   What they are doing is competing for status (aka "playing the game").

 

This is why no one ever stops when they make enough money to buy everything they might want, instead after the first $100 million, they keep working 12 hours every day to make the next $100 million.  The "game" is "my net worth is bigger than your net worth".   It's instinctive.

 

Money is the scorecard of the game.  The fact that the same money that is the scorecard is ALSO the means for survival for poor people is intentional.  That's what is meant by "let's play for real money". It's real because for some people, losing their money means death for them and their family.

 

The game IS samsara (aka maya).  Spirituality is not caring that everyone wins and you lose. "Give them the other cheek".

Edited March 10, 2015 by Coaster

[z00se]

I would like to add a few points.

 

I worked flat out with my own computer business, it was all running great, then i got sick and had to stop. It was all pretty full on and intense and i burned myself out. Not only due to work but also other life choices.

 

Then i took up the cruziest job ever, im at work over 10 hours a day, but i don't do much, and can have a sleep most days if i want. It took about 3 years to settle into the slowness of it, from what i was used to, i always felt like i wasn't doing enough and felt nervous from that! It's hard to unwind after being pumped up for so long.

 

However although i can rest and relax at work now throughout the whole day, i feel tension again because although i get pretty good money, i feel like i'm wasting my life away. There is that inner desire to do something that is special to me. My job is an old man job, not for somebody with energy. It's good that i can do my own thing - study / meditate / exercise or whatever i feel like in my spare time at work, however it just gives me a taste for more.... So the work environment doesn't matter, if i want to relax in a stressful envirnoment i will, if i want to stress in a relaxed environment i will. So if you like your job, i think just stick with it, just like other say manage your time and learn your warning signs of when you are going to topple over.

 

I remember when i was in China meditating like 5 hrs a day, i would get the urge to expand out and do something. I think thats the laws of nature, expand out, then contract. As something gets old, it's ability to expand and contract become less and less. If a new thing expands and expands it breaks. If a new things contracts and contracts it breaks too. If something stays the same it gets stale and overcome so that it too dies.

 

According to TCM and Chinese astrology we all have a stronger element, that IS us, it defines us and who we are. I have seen it in countless accounts in different people. It is real (at the most basic level i am certain). We all strive, but for different things, and the more we strive, the better and more alive we feel, yet as we start reaching too far we topple over. For me that is meditation, to keep yourself from toppling over.

 

Now here is one great thing i realized. Different people complement each other, by working in groups you can balance each other out. This allows you to be you, and expand like you, but the group dynamic helps you to also contract and brings about harmony within the group - so long as the group is a harmonious group, not all die hard workers.

 

I am certain Genghis Khan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Nelson Mandela, Michael Jackson and a host of other special people weren't centred all the time, thats how they became who they were. Then again i'm sure Lao Tzu, Sun Tzu, and lots of other famous people that most people have never heard of were centred most of the time but expanded very little.

 

Balance is kept by revolving around the center. You would know in your own job that you need to spend time organizing your stuff / paperwork, time to expand out and contact clients, time to interact emotionally with clients and sell yourself to get the contract and also have time to rest so that you can do everything all over again tomorrow. If you omit anything your career will start to fall apart. Same with work / life balance. Learn to time manage and bear the grunt from mother nature if you fail to heed the warnings. It's hard i know, i still struggle, but the secret i think is to not outstretch too much in any direction... and spending time with others, they can help you to maintain a state of normality

 

Good Luck!

[the1gza]

This might not be something that is popular, but perhaps you might be too reliant on cultivating in a manner that does not fit you. I'm from a background where the Torah was something that was big in my life. With all the spiritual masters there, I noticed one thing that was consistent with them: they cultivated first, then built their lives upon that foundation. Abraham was the son of a deity-maker, which anyone with a background in egregores knows requires pretty skilled spiritual training. He also trained with the immortal King of Salem Melchizedek for, I don't know, 40 years, which is where he learned alchemy. The guy practically spent his whole life cultivating and trained in spiritual disciplines, which was something that got passed down from generation to generation. 

 

What I am getting at is that most people here are getting to cultivation AFTER they set up lifestyles for themselves. In the modern world, many of these foundations are very much counterproductive to the foundation principles set forth by ancient people. Problem is, the foundation of your life at the time of gaining cultivation is likely to have a strong grip on how to prioritize things. So if you got these strong priority parameters, and you try to introduce a new set of parameters that contradict the old ones... that's gonna be a pretty tough battle that can cause more strife than it solves. 

 

So that's why you see people throwing away their old lives for the sake of cultivation. Although it's been aggrandized in many forms as being "holy", there's a far more practical function that doesn't necessitate the religious aura that influences many spiritual teachings. Practically speaking, if you got your head in parameters that you constantly gotta battle in not just the mind, but also in the environment, you can really sabotage your work... at least with these old ways of cultivation.

 

The thing is, despite all these teachings we have, the fact is that the origins of these practices came from people on roads to self-discovery who were really just making stuff up as they go along. Why do you think that one system can drastically differ from another? The world has become somewhat enamored with the East because the archetypes of holiness and spirituality are stereotypically associated with that region. So everyone who is "spiritual" is rather practicing something from Buddhism, Taoism, or Hinduism; things like Yoga, Qigong, and various meditations inspired from these regions. But there's WAY more out there than just these disciplines, and way different ways of approaching the same end that may not require holding to priorities from those cultures.

 

I've had some of the best experiences with dream shamans and dreamwork. I thought myself "cool" talking to these folks because I could spit all this jargon about Eastern theories and methods. I thought, "these are powerful people (they somewhat held a degree of plasticity with reality that would normally be characterized as "miraculous"), surely they know of the importance of cleansing chakras!" Much to my surprise, these are people who never consciously cared about their chakras at all, in fact they had no knowledge of ANY Eastern esoteric anatomy. Moreover, when I found out how they went about their practice, there were two things I noticed: 1) They talked about techniques I never heard of before and 2) No 2 dreamworkers went about their cultivation in the same fashion, aside from maybe their beginning work in consistently having conscious dreams. I realized that these guys were rambunctiously making shit up, in fact it almost seemed like it was too easy to be real. And yet, these were are people that demonstrated some ridiculous control over their primordial potentials, even though you would never know that they did. It also came to note that they did this rather quickly, even though they all had jobs and a pretty "regular" life. 

 

The point of the story is this: You might have to find a way of doing things that is all about you, perhaps something that you don't even know exists because you just made the shit up. If you find yourself clashing to a point of being inconsistent and off kilter, and the conflict creates more tension than you honestly feel it's worth... maybe that shit's not for you. Maybe the priority parameters of that practice aren't ones that are applicable to you, and perhaps they don't mean shit aside from the people whom they should mean something to. Maybe instead of a cultivation practice that is hard, time-intensive, and perhaps even personally taxing, you find something that is easy, fun, and continuously enlivening. Most people might not think that is possible, and maybe a practice that is easy is not for you. What I am saying though is consider that the cultivation you are looking for might be something that you have to come up with through your own ingenuity, and your own self-trust that what you conceive can work. 

[Rara]

But that is what it is about for all the people we call "materialistic". No one goes out to make $100 million so that they can buy $100 million of specific things like cars. What they are doing is competing for status (aka "playing the game").

 

This is why no one ever stops when they make enough money to buy everything they might want, instead after the first $100 million, they keep working 12 hours every day to make the next $100 million. The "game" is "my net worth is bigger than your net worth". It's instinctive.

 

Money is the scorecard of the game. The fact that the same money that is the scorecard is ALSO the means for survival for poor people is intentional. That's what is meant by "let's play for real money". It's real because for some people, losing their money means death for them and their family.

 

The game IS samsara (aka maya). Spirituality is not caring that everyone wins and you lose. "Give them the other cheek".

Spot on!

 

However, I many people that I have to work with are generally superficial...materialistically and competitively. I care for neither these days so I suppose I might have "outgrown" the environment.

 

I guess I've been playing the same game for so long now that I'm a vit bored. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere else now...last year was its peak, I feel.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Rara

[Rara]

I would like to add a few points.

 

I worked flat out with my own computer business, it was all running great, then i got sick and had to stop. It was all pretty full on and intense and i burned myself out. Not only due to work but also other life choices.

 

Then i took up the cruziest job ever, im at work over 10 hours a day, but i don't do much, and can have a sleep most days if i want. It took about 3 years to settle into the slowness of it, from what i was used to, i always felt like i wasn't doing enough and felt nervous from that! It's hard to unwind after being pumped up for so long.

 

However although i can rest and relax at work now throughout the whole day, i feel tension again because although i get pretty good money, i feel like i'm wasting my life away. There is that inner desire to do something that is special to me. My job is an old man job, not for somebody with energy. It's good that i can do my own thing - study / meditate / exercise or whatever i feel like in my spare time at work, however it just gives me a taste for more.... So the work environment doesn't matter, if i want to relax in a stressful envirnoment i will, if i want to stress in a relaxed environment i will. So if you like your job, i think just stick with it, just like other say manage your time and learn your warning signs of when you are going to topple over.

 

I remember when i was in China meditating like 5 hrs a day, i would get the urge to expand out and do something. I think thats the laws of nature, expand out, then contract. As something gets old, it's ability to expand and contract become less and less. If a new thing expands and expands it breaks. If a new things contracts and contracts it breaks too. If something stays the same it gets stale and overcome so that it too dies.

 

According to TCM and Chinese astrology we all have a stronger element, that IS us, it defines us and who we are. I have seen it in countless accounts in different people. It is real (at the most basic level i am certain). We all strive, but for different things, and the more we strive, the better and more alive we feel, yet as we start reaching too far we topple over. For me that is meditation, to keep yourself from toppling over.

 

Now here is one great thing i realized. Different people complement each other, by working in groups you can balance each other out. This allows you to be you, and expand like you, but the group dynamic helps you to also contract and brings about harmony within the group - so long as the group is a harmonious group, not all die hard workers.

 

I am certain Genghis Khan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Nelson Mandela, Michael Jackson and a host of other special people weren't centred all the time, thats how they became who they were. Then again i'm sure Lao Tzu, Sun Tzu, and lots of other famous people that most people have never heard of were centred most of the time but expanded very little.

 

Balance is kept by revolving around the center. You would know in your own job that you need to spend time organizing your stuff / paperwork, time to expand out and contact clients, time to interact emotionally with clients and sell yourself to get the contract and also have time to rest so that you can do everything all over again tomorrow. If you omit anything your career will start to fall apart. Same with work / life balance. Learn to time manage and bear the grunt from mother nature if you fail to heed the warnings. It's hard i know, i still struggle, but the secret i think is to not outstretch too much in any direction... and spending time with others, they can help you to maintain a state of normality

 

Good Luck!

I like this a lot! If anything, I am addicted to overloading myself...it's my business after all. This is what I see is the destructive element. Not giving myself recovery time and space.

 

This needs to change regardless.

 

I don't think I will ever reduce the high level of activity, I just need a change of scenery.

[Rara]

This might not be something that is popular, but perhaps you might be too reliant on cultivating in a manner that does not fit you. I'm from a background where the Torah was something that was big in my life. With all the spiritual masters there, I noticed one thing that was consistent with them: they cultivated first, then built their lives upon that foundation. Abraham was the son of a deity-maker, which anyone with a background in egregores knows requires pretty skilled spiritual training. He also trained with the immortal King of Salem Melchizedek for, I don't know, 40 years, which is where he learned alchemy. The guy practically spent his whole life cultivating and trained in spiritual disciplines, which was something that got passed down from generation to generation.

 

What I am getting at is that most people here are getting to cultivation AFTER they set up lifestyles for themselves. In the modern world, many of these foundations are very much counterproductive to the foundation principles set forth by ancient people. Problem is, the foundation of your life at the time of gaining cultivation is likely to have a strong grip on how to prioritize things. So if you got these strong priority parameters, and you try to introduce a new set of parameters that contradict the old ones... that's gonna be a pretty tough battle that can cause more strife than it solves.

 

So that's why you see people throwing away their old lives for the sake of cultivation. Although it's been aggrandized in many forms as being "holy", there's a far more practical function that doesn't necessitate the religious aura that influences many spiritual teachings. Practically speaking, if you got your head in parameters that you constantly gotta battle in not just the mind, but also in the environment, you can really sabotage your work... at least with these old ways of cultivation.

 

The thing is, despite all these teachings we have, the fact is that the origins of these practices came from people on roads to self-discovery who were really just making stuff up as they go along. Why do you think that one system can drastically differ from another? The world has become somewhat enamored with the East because the archetypes of holiness and spirituality are stereotypically associated with that region. So everyone who is "spiritual" is rather practicing something from Buddhism, Taoism, or Hinduism; things like Yoga, Qigong, and various meditations inspired from these regions. But there's WAY more out there than just these disciplines, and way different ways of approaching the same end that may not require holding to priorities from those cultures.

 

I've had some of the best experiences with dream shamans and dreamwork. I thought myself "cool" talking to these folks because I could spit all this jargon about Eastern theories and methods. I thought, "these are powerful people (they somewhat held a degree of plasticity with reality that would normally be characterized as "miraculous"), surely they know of the importance of cleansing chakras!" Much to my surprise, these are people who never consciously cared about their chakras at all, in fact they had no knowledge of ANY Eastern esoteric anatomy. Moreover, when I found out how they went about their practice, there were two things I noticed: 1) They talked about techniques I never heard of before and 2) No 2 dreamworkers went about their cultivation in the same fashion, aside from maybe their beginning work in consistently having conscious dreams. I realized that these guys were rambunctiously making shit up, in fact it almost seemed like it was too easy to be real. And yet, these were are people that demonstrated some ridiculous control over their primordial potentials, even though you would never know that they did. It also came to note that they did this rather quickly, even though they all had jobs and a pretty "regular" life.

 

The point of the story is this: You might have to find a way of doing things that is all about you, perhaps something that you don't even know exists because you just made the shit up. If you find yourself clashing to a point of being inconsistent and off kilter, and the conflict creates more tension than you honestly feel it's worth... maybe that shit's not for you. Maybe the priority parameters of that practice aren't ones that are applicable to you, and perhaps they don't mean shit aside from the people whom they should mean something to. Maybe instead of a cultivation practice that is hard, time-intensive, and perhaps even personally taxing, you find something that is easy, fun, and continuously enlivening. Most people might not think that is possible, and maybe a practice that is easy is not for you. What I am saying though is consider that the cultivation you are looking for might be something that you have to come up with through your own ingenuity, and your own self-trust that what you conceive can work.

Great post! In fact, an element of my own opinion in here which clearly I forgot about.

 

I must remember that the Tao is "my Tao"...my journey, my path, my way.

 

Not giving a shit and letting go...the true universal Way. But we all go about this differently anyway.

[MooNiNite]

work life should never interfere with spiritual growth, the two should be one and the same. why else are you here but to perform your true work?

[Rara]

On the subject of meditation, this is what I have been doing all day.

 

Job 1 went by very well and I made it back in good time to do reports/emails. I managed lunch and then took a bus into town ready for teaching.

 

Interchange time and bus 2 to get me to class is 10 mins late.

 

So now I am 10 mins late for my own class. Situation out of my control, today I am choosing not to stress and just breathe. Come whatever may.

 

This doesn't change the fact that my current career is too much for me and impractical.

[Coaster]

The world has become somewhat enamored with the East because the archetypes of holiness and spirituality are stereotypically associated with that region. So everyone who is "spiritual" is rather practicing something from Buddhism, Taoism, or Hinduism; things like Yoga, Qigong, and various meditations inspired from these regions. But there's WAY more out there than just these disciplines, and way different ways of approaching the same end that may not require holding to priorities from those cultures.

 

I just wanted to comment about one minor point in your post.  I think that our impressions of "spirituality" in English speaking countries are associated with Eastern religions, simply because our "default" religion is Christianity, and so someone who wants to do something different, then avoid Judaeo-Christian religions, which only leaves the Eastern religions.  And, in addition, there is a historical reason, as follows:

 

Both the Western religions and the Eastern religions have an "exoteric" aspect, which is designed for the average person, i.e. give money and go every week to church/temple.  Then they have an "esoteric" aspect which is contemplation, meditation, and so forth, which was only done by monks (prior to World War 2).

 

When people actively stopped doing their local default religion, it was often because the exoteric participation was not enough for them.  They were looking for esoteric practice - but - religions do not promote esoteric practices outside of a full-time (monk) situation.  So, they did not see the esoteric practices of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and looked to other religions.

 

Then in the 20th Century, some Eastern religious teachers came to the West.  The people who had the time and the education to understand the Eastern practices were upper class people (or upper middle class).   So, the Eastern religion teachers saw these Westerners who spend all day every day at the Ashram, and saw that this was like monks - they were interested, and they were available full-time.  So they gave these people esoteric teachings normally reserved for monks.  And when those Western disciples setup centers to teach other Westerners, they taught those esoteric teachings, because that is what they knew.

 

So, while the Western missionaries had always setup exoteric churches in the East - because their subjects were working class people - the Eastern religious teachers who came to the West ended up giving esoteric teachings to Westerners - just due to "historical" reasons, meaning the conditions of the time and place, rather than any intention to do so.

 

Thus, people in the West associate esoteric teachings like meditation with Eastern religions, purely due to the circumstances that led to only Eastern esoteric teachings being publicly taught in the West.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Coaster

[Stosh]

I just wanted to comment about one minor point in your post.  I think that our impressions of "spirituality" in English speaking countries are associated with Eastern religions, simply because our "default" religion is Christianity, and so someone who wants to do something different, then avoid Judaeo-Christian religions, which only leaves the Eastern religions.  And, in addition, there is a historical reason, as follows:

 

Both the Western religions and the Eastern religions have an "exoteric" aspect, which is designed for the average person, i.e. give money and go every week to church/temple.  Then they have an "esoteric" aspect which is contemplation, meditation, and so forth, which was only done by monks (prior to World War 2).

 

When people actively stopped doing their local default religion, it was often because the exoteric participation was not enough for them.  They were looking for esoteric practice - but - religions do not promote esoteric practices outside of a full-time (monk) situation.  So, they did not see the esoteric practices of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and looked to other religions.

 

Then in the 20th Century, some Eastern religious teachers came to the West.  The people who had the time and the education to understand the Eastern practices were upper class people (or upper middle class).   So, the Eastern religion teachers saw these Westerners who spend all day every day at the Ashram, and saw that this was like monks - they were interested, and they were available full-time.  So they gave these people esoteric teachings normally reserved for monks.  And when those Western disciples setup centers to teach other Westerners, they taught those esoteric teachings, because that is what they knew.

 

So, while the Western missionaries had always setup exoteric churches in the East - because their subjects were working class people - the Eastern religious teachers who came to the West ended up giving esoteric teachings to Westerners - just due to "historical" reasons, meaning the conditions of the time and place, rather than any intention to do so.

 

Thus, people in the West associate esoteric teachings like meditation with Eastern religions, purely due to the circumstances that led to only Eastern esoteric teachings being publicly taught in the West.

Nice interesting post, there, , however , though it may trend true, there is a fundamental difference between the Abrahamic religions , and the Eastern , which pivots about mans relationship to god and goodness. In the Abrahamic religions , it is God who is the force of goodness, man is apart from that , and either emulating or pleasing God,  The Eastern religions trend more towards seeing goodness as intrinsic to man , which he either realizes privately or not.  

What I'm aiming at here is that there is a basic predisposition in the eastern faiths toward the 'esoteric'. Though certainly they both may show both aspects in their practice. As a catholic one can be guilty , but presumably can be forgiven, I dont see evidence of forgiveness in the eastern trends, ,,,there   you either succeed or fail to find divinity.

[Coaster]

Nice interesting post, there, , however , though it may trend true, there is a fundamental difference between the Abrahamic religions , and the Eastern , which pivots about mans relationship to god and goodness. In the Abrahamic religions , it is God who is the force of goodness, man is apart from that , and either emulating or pleasing God,  The Eastern religions trend more towards seeing goodness as intrinsic to man , which he either realizes privately or not.  

What I'm aiming at here is that there is a basic predisposition in the eastern faiths toward the 'esoteric'. Though certainly they both may show both aspects in their practice. As a catholic one can be guilty , but presumably can be forgiven, I dont see evidence of forgiveness in the eastern trends, ,,,there   you either succeed or fail to find divinity.

 

You are just describing exoteric Abrahamic religion and esoteric Eastern religion, and ignoring the other two.

 

Just to give a few examples, in Esoteric Abrahamic religion, we have:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Spark

 

and

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza#Substance.2C_attributes_and_modes

 

In Exoteric Eastern religion, we have:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvaita

 

and

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_deities

[the1gza]

Great post! In fact, an element of my own opinion in here which clearly I forgot about.

 

I must remember that the Tao is "my Tao"...my journey, my path, my way.

 

Not giving a shit and letting go...the true universal Way. But we all go about this differently anyway.

Yea man I can say that things are not always as they are written down, or perhaps that there are ways in which we can approach things that are different than they ways the ancient techniques demand. If I were to tell you that you can hypnotize yourself so that an action like, I don't know, blinking cultivate your primordial blinking in a manner that was more complete, more efficient, and more pleasant than hours of meditation, tai chi, or anything else, it might sound far-fetched or even impossible to most people. However, this could be completely possible depending on how willing a person was to accept the possibility. Again, not saying you should pursue an idea like that, but just that there are possibilities that might not be considered because of certain ideals   .

[Spotless]

Their is an opportunity in all stress situations to look at incorrect thinking, incorrect action.

 

Often a great deal of stress is nothing more than being torn up in "time" - future or past.

 

Also - we tend to carry stress / adrenal highs for no good reason - we have this stress and we must overcome the stress - we "must" maintain a stress vibration or higher in order to deal with it - this is the candle burning at both ends. We tend to do this with food but also media that we can be critical of and actions of instinctive stimulation, harsh music, alcohol, caffeine, sugar drinks.

 

Basically we often run our bodies in a high energy stress frequency while blowing all our reserves for no good reason - this will cause disease, possibly accidents or an acute awareness that change is needed.

 

Practicing looking at these actions from the perspective of incorrect thinking / incorrect action is among the most simple and powerful means for cultivation - dispersing our energy in these often obvious ways is as much a loss as chasing bananas.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Spotless

[Stosh]

You are just describing exoteric Abrahamic religion and esoteric Eastern religion, and ignoring the other two.

 

Just to give a few examples, in Esoteric Abrahamic religion, we have:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Spark

 

and

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza#Substance.2C_attributes_and_modes

 

In Exoteric Eastern religion, we have:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvaita

 

and

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_deities

Yeah that's fair point , very reasonable. I agree the line is not a clear division. 

but I'm thinking these other faiths really aren't catching on or 'big' in the west in the fashion of new age pursuit of alternatives to what folks originally were taught like Protestantism ... since I never hear about them  like I do  , new age humanism or Zen etc.  Which is what I thought you were addressing.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Stosh

[seekingbuddha]

It's worth noting that for thousands of years, up until the end of World War 2, spirituality was only practiced by full-time monks, or sometimes by independently wealthy people who had plenty of time (e.g. upper class).

 

Upper class leisure activities then were trickled down to the masses, largely for the reason of providing income to entrepreneurs.

 

Spiritual practice got swept along by that phenomenon.

 

A lot of them are not really suited to part-time practice.  For example, I spent 10 years doing Tibetan Buddhism, and eventually came to the conclusion that it was entirely constructed for monks, and was unsuited for householders (YMMV).

 

+++

This  is wrong  view.  What we need to understand is that there are  "levels  of  spirituality"  and  "levels of  liberation from suffering".   So,  what is applicable to  monks  is geared and taught  towards  attainment of  "higher levels"  of liberation and state of mind.  But  that does not mean that we, as ordinary laymen,  can  NOT take part of the teachings of Buddha  and practice it.  In fact,  simple  things that are the basic foundation of monk's  life  (eg.  Sila)  bring  profound  happiness and fruits to a ordinary  human life.

 

Spirituality  was part of indian society for thousands of years - they understood that not everyone can become a monk, which is the basic pre-requisite  to reach  high levels of liberated state-of-mind.   But, there are numerous examples, where ordinary laymen accepted Buddha  as their teacher/guide/spiritual teacher  for the rest of their life, and they led an ordinary household life, with great peace and happiness as a fruit of taking up the teachings.   The teaching of Buddha has "suffering and way to end suffering"  as the core - not only monks, but every being can practice this to varying degrees, and attain  "varying  levels of  happiness / peace / fruits / state-of-mind".  Take what you can practice, and leave the rest for monks or others who wish to reach higher state-of-mind.