Living Family Permaculture Vs Dead Cities

[dust]

People in cities do not have precipitously shorter life spands - often they are statistically longer.

 

Better education leads to longer life span, for sure. We know to wash our hands and not shit where we eat!

 

But a lot of people live longer because they take a cocktail of prescription medication each day. I don't think that many people I've ever met who live in the city are actually all that physically fit and healthy.

 

 

The average city dweller is far more apt to visit a museum, art gallery, live theater, orchestra, ballets.

They are far more apt to take lessons from a professional in fencing, yoga, qi gong, zen arts, painting, photography and a thousand other things easy to find withina mile or so of any place inside a city.

 

Do these things make people happier? I live my life joyfully free of social art events such as the ballet...

 

 

City dwellers are definitely smarter in terms of IQ and definitely less racist.

 

The country dwellers have higher rates of alcoholism, rape, incest, spousal abuse, household murder, suicide, etc.

The average country dweller is ten times more likely to throw trash out the window of their car, destroy habitat at a whim and attend a fundamentalist church.

 

........

 

I have live in the deeper real country towns and the opposite is generally true - often deeply protective, not nearly as colorful or developed. Often certain families are the "money" families and carry a certain disproportionate weight. Bar brawls and lowlifes abound. Mental capabilities are much lower in general, worldliness is often nowhere to be found. Dumping oil directly into streams or in the street is common. A penchant for Rottweilers and Pit Bull Terriers is seemingly everywhere.

 

Seems to me like your facts and experience here are based on USA country living. This is absolutely not applicable to every place on Earth.

 

Having lived and sojourned in various places in China, I can say that some of my favourite, most genuinely warm and welcoming people, have been the "hillbillies" living out in the mountains of Sichuan, or near the beaches of Hainan, and a couple of other places. They're not educated to your standards, they don't live in fashionable apartments full of shiny appliances, they don't have a great amount of worldly experience, but in my opinion they're often better for it.

 

In these places, where people have enough food to eat (and, though many live in poverty, by no means are all rural Chinese starving to death), they're doing alright.

 

Large cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Shenyang, Taiyuan, Shenzhen... they very much suck the life out of many people. And cities like these are what we're going to be seeing more of, around the world.

 

In part because of the expansion of modern "farming" methods, relatively few people are needed for farming anymore. Migrant labourers and immigrants flock to the cities to find work. Vast areas of land throughout China are covered in unused apartment buildings. Students from all over are sent to cities to study. These cities grow with no regard for human happiness or "worldliness". The upper class is comfy, the middle classes are OK (though all are subject to the same pollution as everyone else, and a lot of stress), and the poor live in squalor. There are situations all over the place where migrants and other poor live in tiny basement rooms underneath mid-priced apartment buildings.

 

 

A friend of mine used to live in a tiny (~30m²) apartment with at least 3 other people.

 

As far as oil dumping... well... nasty practices like that are pretty common all over China at the moment, and limited neither to cities nor the country...!

 

 

 

I love the country but make no mistake - I'm far more wary in the country than in a city.

 

That's weird to me. I have been afraid for my life a number of times in cities, but never in the country. I think this is an American thing. You guys get everything backwards

Edited March 12, 2015 by dustybeijing

[voidisyinyang]

the mechanized farming is just Westernized farming that is behind the water crisis worldwide.

 

http://thediplomat.com/2014/11/chinas-looming-water-shortage/

 

70% of water in China goes to mechanized farming and 20% to coal.

 

The huge water diversion projects are not enough to solve the problem despite costing $60 billion to build.

 

India is running out of water for same reason - US Peace Corps digging wells and then the farmers use Green Revolution petrochemical farming needing lots of irrigation and the wells are running dry.

 

I wrote an op-ed on the water crisis 15 years ago and I was dismissed.

 

The problem is a linear view towards time without a proper understanding of seeing time as cyclical and recharging the cycles more slowly.

 

When the original humans hunt birds they wait to eat the birds until the next day because they know the spirit of the bird will tell the other birds that humans are killing the birds.

 

That is a much more sophisticated understanding of natural resources - and yet modern humans think the original humans are primitive since they only have digging sticks and bows and arrows.

 

 

The report points to a study projecting that, by 2030, the global demand for water will exceed sustainable supplies by 40 per cent. Most of the world’s water supply is currently used in agriculture, according to the UN, with the World Bank predicting that food demand will rise by fifty per cent in the next two decades, as population grows and dietary habits change.
 
The looming shortages may be aggravated by an 85 per cent increase in water demand from the energy sector by 2035, the International Energy Agency anticipates.
 
Problems will be particularly severe in areas where factors such as urban sprawl, make it harder to manage available water resources.
 
By 2050, the report says, two-thirds of the world’s population will live in cities. In countries such as India and regions such as Sub-Saharan Africa, urban centres are predicted to expand up to five times.

 

http://www.scidev.net/global/water/news/water-crises-top-threat-next-decade.html

 

I wrote we had 25 years - that was in 2000.

 

So then we get this global report this year that we have 15 years.

 

So people thought I was too crazy but at least I gave warning for better planning - 10 to 15 years ahead of schedule.

 

One of the secrets of qigong is you can create water through a type of reverse electrolysis - I did this by going 8 days on just a half glass of water - creating water from the yang qi energy.

 

 

[the1gza]

You created this life not for safety - though fear is a paralyzing factor.

 

People in cities do not have precipitously shorter life spands - often they are statistically longer.

 

City dwellers are definitely smarter in terms of IQ and definitely less racist.

 

The country dwellers have higher rates of alcoholism, rape, incest, spousal abuse, household murder, suicide, etc.

The average country dweller is ten times more likely to throw trash out the window of their car, destroy habitat at a whim and attend a fundamentalist church.

 

The average city dweller is far more apt to visit a museum, art gallery, live theater, orchestra, ballets.

They are far more apt to take lessons from a professional in fencing, yoga, qi gong, zen arts, painting, photography and a thousand other things easy to find withina mile or so of any place inside a city.

 

Great minds and writers are often found at a local coffee house.

I have live in resort country Ski areas, in quaint coastal ocean towns and the minds and shiny colorful auras abound.

 

I have live in the deeper real country towns and the opposite is generally true - often deeply protective, not nearly as colorful or developed. Often certain families are the "money" families and carry a certain disproportionate weight. Bar brawls and lowlifes abound. Mental capabilities are much lower in general, worldliness is often nowhere to be found. Dumping oil directly into streams or in the street is common. A penchant for Rottweilers and Pit Bull Terriers is seemingly everywhere.

 

And increasingly if you do not live on your country property all the time - much of your property will go missing in the country - like sometimes the entire house - wood, copper and toilet.

 

Life does not put the worm on a sunny beach - it will die there.

 

Life puts the various beings in places where they will flourish but not be overcome by the complexities.

The simpler the life mission, the simpler the habitat - our great cities and coastal Meccas are filled with complex colorful beings that can handle and flourish in those environments, the great bastions of creativity and spiritual endeavor and close encounter and close scrutiny.

 

The country affords many opportunities - but for the most part the deep rural areas have far less brightness on a great many levels.

And sometimes the remoteness can suck all hope out of ones thinking - particularly if you don't have a pot to piss in and your husband beats you and your children regularly.

 

I love the country but make no mistake - I'm far more wary in the country than in a city.

Particularly when I was younger and "looked like a city boy".

 

Many small towns are wholly owned by the cops and a few families - you have to wwatch what you say and who you play with.

 

Obviously a trip to Yosemite or Glacier National Park is country but they are also destination resorts of a type and these are wonderful as are the great wilderness areas.

 

I have never been afraid to travel the off roads all over the world - or sit at a poker table with everybody packing a gun, I am just saying as you enter the off roads you are often not dancing in a rainbow.

I don't know if you've ever lived in the city, but what you are saying is a bit farfetched at best. By no circumstance are cities less racist, you just find yourself being more politically correct. Not calling someone a nigger or a spic does not mean you are not racist, it just means you don't use offensive language. But look at a city like Chicago, and it is easily one of the most naturally segregated places on Earth. Just because you go to school and work with other races or ethnicities doesn't mean you live in a less racist environment.

 

I went to high school where at least 30% of the white students never, and I mean NEVER, went to school with anyone but white people. Now I'm not saying that's the norm, but this is something that many people would consider outrageous, especially for a person living in Chicago their whole life. But that is definitely the case, and it was so bad that a person honestly thought that I might have family members who had bones through their noses just because I was black. She honestly was confused, and not just her but several white wondered the same thing, and despite me wanting to be mad, I honestly couldn't be because there was no malice behind it. But it's still racist as hell, it's just a natural consequence of ignorance.

 

The only places I have lived consistently, besides Champaign, IL, were cities. New York, LA, Miami... I've been to all these places and lived for over a year there. Trust me, this idea of cultural bustling, mutliculturalism, diversity... extremely surface level ideas. So what if you take a professional yoga class... man most of these classes aren't even good for covering the asanas beyond "working out". Have you been to the "spiritual" shops in these places? They're goofy as hell, but they look real chic and hip and "mystical". I have met people who were legit, but they were near hermits who could probably live anywhere and thrive. The stuff is very vibrant on the surface, but there is an extreme lack of depth that goes on in the city when it comes to things of that nature, or anything. Cities, because of their compact nature, are also extremely susceptible to groupthink, and the scrutiny that you are imagining goes down is far less powerful than you would think. Again, being a part of several of these groups, I was often kicked out because of deep scrutiny that was not "in line with the group", and it also helps to point out that many of these cultural flings that people are identifying are actually 7th or 8th attempts at something that started and died. So the depth is not very strong because what was started never had the backbone to stand right.

 

I know all these type of people, I have lived with them, and I have had them all come to me for advice like I was "advanced". The only reason I could possibly think why a person would be asking me for advice, regardless of their skill levels being way higher in spiritual exploration, health practice, academics, is because I have naturally always spent a great deal of my time in self-reflection, while it seems to be a lost art for city dwellers. That's the problem, cities have so much shit there that people often have no time for inner reflection, which means they can't really absorb too much of all this stuff they are exposed to. Who cares about going to a museum if it has no effect on your personal being, who cares about any of that stuff beyond it being a "break" to life? This is when you get beyond the surface and get to know what people are actually thinking and feeling, and it's not healthy with city folks.

 

Hey, I can say the same for more rural people, as Champaign had it's share of problems. But there was also a lot more space, a lot more open room to do things quietly, and if you got tired of clubbing and drinking (I went to college there), you could actually think without hearing a whole bunch of noise. You don't have as much to occupy yourself with, so if you wanted to do some spiritual investigation, and were honest about it, I have experienced that it was a lot easier when the places got more rural. Now Champaign isn't deep country, but in comparison to Chicago, it is. I also experienced more blatant racism there, but in actuality the honesty of it, rather than substituting political correctness as a sign of "progress" actually made those folks easy to be around. And despite city dwellers perhaps being more capable of mouthing off fancy language, as far as intelligence is concerned... yea dude, not very much difference at all. 

 

This is the thing, I feel that romanticism on either end, for urbanism or ruralism, has got to stop so folks can actually honestly investigate things. However, this is not easy to do if you are first and foremost honest with yourself, which is a lost art amongst human beings. So all these "save the world" solutions... they are useless with that skill. I would like to live in a cave or the wilderness, but I already know that there a high likelihood that I am severely unprepared for that. I don't know how to communicate with animals, with plants, or with the several force currents in the world. Since I don't want to make the same mistakes that people did in the past, I'm not going to mentally masturbate on that dream like, "OH, the glories of the wild!!" Right now, those glories would probably be disasters for me. I just try to do the best with what I got now, and move toward that goal despite not being in a situation I think is ideal. I also leave a LOT of room for changing my thoughts, because I am convinced that ideals are based on a person, not a situation. Like I said with those city hermits who were legit, anywhere they were was an ideal, perhaps even outer space. All these worldviews are distractions, in my mind, that keep people thinking about others rather than working on themselves. 

[voidisyinyang]

https://news.vice.com/article/watch-the-premiere-of-vice-on-hbo-season-3-right-now?utm_source=vicenewstwitter

 

Vice - full episode on how NASA proves anarctica is melting way faster than predicted and ensures the megacities on the coasts of the world will all sink.

 

This can not be stopped - it's too late. It can maybe slow down but unlikely since carbon emissions still are increasing.

[Spotless]

My last post here was definitely from the perspective of the USA but it was also trying to illustrate another point - the idea that cities are wonderful and complex living things and that complexity and diversity attract spirits that flourish in this experience. Some people do not flourish in high energetic environments.

 

Some people do not function well in low energetic simpler environments.

 

For those of you who must shit upon either because you do not like the energy - understand it is no different than shitting upon a person because you do not like their energy - even though they may be quite wonderful people - just way to fucking slow for you or way to much of a fast ass city futherfucker - wake up to the judgement in your space - country is great! - city is great!

 

Obviously I was not speaking about new Industrial Age Chinese cities that are going through what we here in the USA went through in the late 1800's and onward for awhile. (In many cases they should not really be viewed as cities but rather large dense factory towns with completely runaway growth - and by the way - they are also waking up to the problem just as we slowly did here)

In the 1970s in LA California cars would disappear just a half a block away in the smog - on a sunny day all you could see of the sun was a glow in the yellowish smog. 1970s - not long ago. The Republicans fought tooth and nail to stop smog control of any kind but we lead the nation in emission control on cars and factories and have been the world leading producers of emission control devices and technology because of this.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Spotless

[Lth]

https://news.vice.com/article/watch-the-premiere-of-vice-on-hbo-season-3-right-now?utm_source=vicenewstwitter

 

Vice - full episode on how NASA proves anarctica is melting way faster than predicted and ensures the megacities on the coasts of the world will all sink.

 

This can not be stopped - it's too late. It can maybe slow down but unlikely since carbon emissions still are increasing.

 

food crisis + water crisis + environmental crisis + economic crisis + war crisis + information crisis = ?

[dust]

My last post here was definitely from the perspective of the USA but it was also trying to illustrate another point - the idea that cities are wonderful and complex living things and that complexity and diversity attract spirits that flourish in this experience. Some people do not flourish in high energetic environments.

 

They are complex living things, and depending on the city they can be quite wonderful....

 

But, personally... I don't think any city is any more "high energy", or any more wonderful, than the wilderness. Beneath the surface it all operates on the same principles.

 

We fool ourselves into thinking that modern civilization operates on the higher principles of compassion, sharing, reason... and that because city-dwellers appreciate art and practice yoga they are kinder and better than those living in the woods drawing circles in the dirt. But in actual fact, the major flourishing cities of the world could not exist in any way without the labour (exploitation?) of millions of rural people the world over. Food, clothes, technology...a majority of the stuff that the compassionate elite of NYC or LA or London depend upon to continue their lifestyle is grown or manufactured somewhere else. Fans of Apple point to their innovation and how they are supposedly trying to make people's lives better. I would point to the fact that they're about to be selling gold-plated watches produced in Asian factories using minerals mined from African land where people are routinely raped and forced into slavery.

 

Ach...we all know this happens, and yet we all still buy computers and mobile phones...

[thelerner]

 

food crisis + water crisis + environmental crisis + economic crisis + war crisis + information crisis = ?

wow, that sound exactly like the 1960's. 

Strangely also like the 1860's..

[Lth]

wow, that sound exactly like the 1960's. 

Strangely also like the 1860's..

 

well, maybe just sound... as the rabbit hole goes deeper than that

[voidisyinyang]

NASA scientist - California has one year of water left.

 

http://t.co/dfKk5VTMeK

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2013/07/california_grows_all_of_our_fruits_and_vegetables_what_would_we_eat_without.html

 

California is the main source of produce for the U.S.

 

things are gonna get interesting very fast.

 

The denial has been strong.

 

I call this the Alchemy of DeNile as Egypt underwent desertification a long time ago but the same desertification process has spread around the world as Western-based farming.

 

 

[the1gza]

NASA scientist - California has one year of water left.

 

http://t.co/dfKk5VTMeK

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2013/07/california_grows_all_of_our_fruits_and_vegetables_what_would_we_eat_without.html

 

California is the main source of produce for the U.S.

 

things are gonna get interesting very fast.

 

The denial has been strong.

 

I call this the Alchemy of DeNile as Egypt underwent desertification a long time ago but the same desertification process has spread around the world as Western-based farming.

I mean all this information is all well and good, what use is it if there aren't solutions being presented with them to solve the problem? Without that, isn't all this info a bit masturbative towards catastrophizing the state of the world?

[Lth]

well solution maybe is to first acknowledge that there is a problem. not everyone does though

maybe its a way of acknowledgment idk Edited March 15, 2015 by Lth

[voidisyinyang]

The solution is qigong training - we are physically alive a very brief period. Qigong teaches that in actuality we are energy beings.

 

The original human culture lived sustainably for 90% of human history precisely because they put energy harmonics first before physical desires.

 

Advanced training in qigong ensures an ascetic diet at least - with farming being 70% of water use, etc. then radical change in diet will have a big effect. South India largely being vegetarian and yet having the biggest population density in the world is a good example of how diet enables greater growth.

 

But the problem is that Western farming was imposed on India and China - and the whole Western mentality is based on a wrong definition of infinity by measuring reality with a geometric irrational magnitude - a fake "contained" materialistic infinity.

 

From that wrong foundation then a deep pre-established disharmony is built upon through increases in logarithmic math with the subsequent increased tensions in technological destruction of ecology.

 

There's some 22 million slaves in forced labor on the planet today - Pakistan has epidemic slavery, Niger and Mali  -- 100,000 forced slave children grow 70% of the caocao sold to the U.S. for children chocolate consumption.

 

So yes - ignorance is bliss in the U.S. but it's starting to hit home with basic ecological limits. Otherwise it's been a global "primitive accumulation" model - work young ladies to death sewing the same stitch over and over for long days making not enough money to meet their basic nutrition - that is the norm for all the clothing worn in the U.S.

 

Transportation based on genocide, etc.

 

So the solution is actually a deep mind-body transformation based on a deep mind control that goes back to Plato and Archytas.

 

Any thing else we do has to be based out of that foundation - we can do whatever we want but the reason we do it is because we don't have a choice - Nature as ecological harmony is in control. We don't "save the planet" - we resonant with formless energy-consciousness that we are a part of and from that then solutions come forth. The planet can take of itself - in resonance with the Moon governing life on Earth. Humans can choose to align with that cycle as was done for 90% of human history or we can embrace the last 10,000 years of Solar-driven fake materialist infinity that is a bad foundation increasingly causing destruction through desertification, etc.

 

Essentially what we don't do is more important than what we do do.

 

So for example I worked part-time for 10 years at an environmental nonprofit. Why didn't I work more? I had coworkers who had to pay off student loans, or had children to pay alimony, etc. and so they needed the money more than me and so I gave them my hours (or didn't fight them from taking them). haha. Then for food I dumpster-dived since so much good food is thrown out still in its packaging. Then I rode a bicycle for transportation - all year long even in the winter. For health I ate lots of garlic and I did qigong even for healing others.

 

Obviously lifestyle choices are not the answer as I was a freak who couldn't integrate into mainstream society but if we institute structural changes then the answers can be very easy. For example actually 90% of environmental problems are from just a handful of large corporations that dominate each sector of the economy - often with regional monopolies in the U.S.

 

So - there can be radical change but it has to be institutional supply-side changes from the top down by the corporate-state elite. Obviously the power structure wants to maintain the huge disparity in wealth - 400 people have as much wealth as half of the population of the U.S. and about 400 people have the wealth of half the population in the whole world. Clearly 90% of humans are basically ants - living in basic survival conditions or the 2 billion living on $2 or less a day - maybe 3 billion - about a third of the planet lives in less than survival conditions in mega-city slums without clean water or sanitation.

 

I have mentioned some solutions like a German engineer working with the regime in China to re-institute humanure composting. Asian farming used to rely on humanure composting and already some 40 million farmers use it for cooking fuel and growing food. Now the megacities will start doing the same and that will reach another 200 million people. That's a basic top-down structural change.

 

Think about it - just all the human shit that we make in the U.S. could be a huge resource for growing food, etc. Obviously cows and pigs make way more shit than humans and so yes they are increasingly using the manure for biodiesel and for composting. The problem is the "toxic sludge" of combining industrial waste with human manure and then just applying that to fields without even composting it. So composting does have to be done correctly - if it's humanure it needs to compost for at least 2 years to be sanitized.

 

But that keeps it out of the water supply for one thing - if composting toilets are created and that's what is called "ecological sanitation" being developed in Sweden and promoted around the world.

 

Other institutional changes are divestment campaigns or government procurement policies since governments are the main employers and purchasing contracts change policies.

 

But the masses can practice boycotts and join cooperatives that buy fair-trade food without slave labor or toxic synthetic chemicals, etc.

 

For example a good institutional change is the Workers Rights Consortium - I worked to get University in my home state to join this - I was going to do a unlimited hunger strike using my qigong skills secretly. haha. The president of the University emailed me saying I had done enough already and please don't go on hunger strike and then he signed it into action.

 

Essentially a group of Universities will boycott together when a particular factory is very heinous against the workers. So far it has improved conditions at several locations and it is being increased as a tool to pre-emptively only buy from good working conditions.I'm talking about sports athletic apparel which is a multi-million - probably multi-billion profit industry based on basically slave labor conditions around the world.

[Lth]

or just remove the whole profit based free market system - that about solves it. incentive would be to work for restoring the world.

[voidisyinyang]

The problem with the profit-based system is that it is interwoven with the legal system and the technological system - this happens through patents for example. Patents have proven to be controlled not based on economic efficiency but rather as an irrational power system - exposed in David F. Noble's book "Forces of Production."

 

But - a good book on this is from the Institute for Policy Studies - well I have to look it up - but anyway it documents how this goes back to Plato. Again with Plato you have the argument for a hierarchical society run by elites and it's justified by "harmony" which is really not harmonics but actually logarithmic-based tuned set up by Archytas, a military engineer. So then the laws of the citizens are based on that technological control of society - so each citizen is valued as 9/8 ratio that must be "compromised" or squared logarithmically for the "good of the state." From that basis of logarithmic technology controlled by a logarithmic social hierarchy then you also get a logarithmic distribution of wealth.

 

So for example in the U.S. corporations are now protected as legal persons with constitutional rights - which because they are tied into the logarithmic profit system and logarithmic technology system - the corporations actually have more rights than actual people.

 

 

This, of course, includes the right to maximize profits which means a corporation can sue a whole nation if that country passes a law that damages a corporations ability to increase profits. This happens as based on the WTO - the world government of closed door hearings controlled by corporate-appointed directors.

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah the Paper Economy by David T. Bazelon

 

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1967/sep/28/same-old-new-class/

 

So this review of the book from 1967 shows it was way ahead of its time!!

 

Actually Bazelon resorted to the same technocratic vision as the solution:

 

 

The crucial policy problem posed by the theme, “technological abundance destroys scarcity” (and its paper economy), is how to perform economic allocation under such conditions. Here the Technocrats made their Utopian proposal—in the sense of an unrealistic departure from existing cultural limits. Scrap the entire paper system, they said, and replace it with a “real” system of accounting based on units of energy measurement, continuously fed into a central computer system. Thus, under conditions of abundance, resource allocation at the primary and secondary industry levels could be nearly continuously determined by registration of consumer behavior. Given further decisions about social overhead costs and services, this is a model of a totally planned, publicly-owned, economy. . . .

 

“The validity of paper in the absence of scarcity is unthinkable without conscious control of its quantity and/or value,” emphasizes Mr. Bazelon. Writing as he does in a period of less acute economic crisis than the 1930’s, and thus without its apocalyptic social visions, it will be of considerable interest to see what proposals he comes up with for achieving this end.

Henry Elsner, Jr.
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

 

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/bazelon-pro-and-con/

 

Bazelon responds:

 

I am not a Technocrat, Dr. Eisner. But I do stand on the belief that Veblen was all by himself, a giant. I rather think that Technocracy was the first reductio ad absurdum response to the initial sunburst of Veblen’s insights. . . . (Are you mixing up Veblen and Technocracy? They are not the same.) I would not scrap the whole paper system—I wouldn’t even think about doing it: that sort of thing is certain to drive you crazy. Besides, the point is not whether I scrap it, but what everybody else does. . . . Under conditions of abundance, the ancient issue of justice tends to lose its point. If we’re a little wiser about it, we can get along a while longer under the paper system without killing ourselves about its validity. That is a spiritual, not a bread-and-butter problem. (I pointedly offered no proposals, Dr. Eisner—just impressions and analysis: the excess of irrelevant ideas is a greater problem than the lack of concrete technical proposals.)

Edited March 15, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[thelerner]

I mean all this information is all well and good, what use is it if there aren't solutions being presented with them to solve the problem? Without that, isn't all this info a bit masturbative towards catastrophizing the state of the world?

It's very serious but far from apocalyptic.

 

Number one as water gets more expensive people will conserve and leave the state.  Water extensive crops will be stopped (sorry almonds).   If it gets too expensive we'll desalinize.  Its already being done.(http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/water-and-drought/article3017597.html#storylink=cpy)-  "They are building the Carlsbad Desalination Project, which will convert as much as 56 million gallons of seawater each day into drinking water for San Diego County residents. The project, with a price tag of $1 billion, is emerging from the sand like an industrial miracle."

 

The cost is twice as high as the highest current source, $2,257 per acre-foot, but at 325,800 gallons an acre foot that .0069 a gallon.  from article: Customers in the city of San Diego will help pay for the Carlsbad plant through their water bills, which could increase as much as $5 a month.

 

In the future as more plants get built they'll probably be able to do better.  Californians are already cutting there water use by (one measure) 22% and they can go much further.   Some cities are: quote "Cities across the region might have to adopt extensive wastewater recycling systems like the one in Orange County, California. The facility has pumped billions of gallons of purified wastewater into an underground aquifer since 2008, creating a continually replenished source of drinking water for the county’s 2.4 million residents. from : http://www.ibtimes.com/southwest-great-plains-states-are-ill-prepared-megadroughts-century-1821046

 

Simply put economic realities tend to create balance long term. 

 

Edited March 16, 2015 by thelerner

[the1gza]

well solution maybe is to first acknowledge that there is a problem. not everyone does though

 

 

maybe its a way of acknowledgment idk

And I don't think anyone should take it seriously when the people who do "take it seriously" only talk about the problem. I mean, I have heard this answer several hundred times, and in those several hundred times, all the people bringing up the problem only had one thing they were doing: "informing". No boots-to-the-ground work, no activat action their part that demonstrates how their ideals work. It's like someone hounding you with fitness and "healthy eating" info, and yet their regular habits are dining at McDonald's and watching "Scandal" marathons on Hulu and Netflix. Nobody's gonna give a damn about that, so I can't blame people for not acknowledging "concerned" individuals who aren't putting their concerns as a prime directive in their own lives.

[the1gza]

The solution is qigong training - we are physically alive a very brief period. Qigong teaches that in actuality we are energy beings.

 

The original human culture lived sustainably for 90% of human history precisely because they put energy harmonics first before physical desires.

 

Advanced training in qigong ensures an ascetic diet at least - with farming being 70% of water use, etc. then radical change in diet will have a big effect. South India largely being vegetarian and yet having the biggest population density in the world is a good example of how diet enables greater growth.

 

But the problem is that Western farming was imposed on India and China - and the whole Western mentality is based on a wrong definition of infinity by measuring reality with a geometric irrational magnitude - a fake "contained" materialistic infinity.

 

From that wrong foundation then a deep pre-established disharmony is built upon through increases in logarithmic math with the subsequent increased tensions in technological destruction of ecology.

 

There's some 22 million slaves in forced labor on the planet today - Pakistan has epidemic slavery, Niger and Mali  -- 100,000 forced slave children grow 70% of the caocao sold to the U.S. for children chocolate consumption.

 

So yes - ignorance is bliss in the U.S. but it's starting to hit home with basic ecological limits. Otherwise it's been a global "primitive accumulation" model - work young ladies to death sewing the same stitch over and over for long days making not enough money to meet their basic nutrition - that is the norm for all the clothing worn in the U.S.

 

Transportation based on genocide, etc.

 

So the solution is actually a deep mind-body transformation based on a deep mind control that goes back to Plato and Archytas.

 

Any thing else we do has to be based out of that foundation - we can do whatever we want but the reason we do it is because we don't have a choice - Nature as ecological harmony is in control. We don't "save the planet" - we resonant with formless energy-consciousness that we are a part of and from that then solutions come forth. The planet can take of itself - in resonance with the Moon governing life on Earth. Humans can choose to align with that cycle as was done for 90% of human history or we can embrace the last 10,000 years of Solar-driven fake materialist infinity that is a bad foundation increasingly causing destruction through desertification, etc.

 

Essentially what we don't do is more important than what we do do.

 

So for example I worked part-time for 10 years at an environmental nonprofit. Why didn't I work more? I had coworkers who had to pay off student loans, or had children to pay alimony, etc. and so they needed the money more than me and so I gave them my hours (or didn't fight them from taking them). haha. Then for food I dumpster-dived since so much good food is thrown out still in its packaging. Then I rode a bicycle for transportation - all year long even in the winter. For health I ate lots of garlic and I did qigong even for healing others.

 

Obviously lifestyle choices are not the answer as I was a freak who couldn't integrate into mainstream society but if we institute structural changes then the answers can be very easy. For example actually 90% of environmental problems are from just a handful of large corporations that dominate each sector of the economy - often with regional monopolies in the U.S.

 

So - there can be radical change but it has to be institutional supply-side changes from the top down by the corporate-state elite. Obviously the power structure wants to maintain the huge disparity in wealth - 400 people have as much wealth as half of the population of the U.S. and about 400 people have the wealth of half the population in the whole world. Clearly 90% of humans are basically ants - living in basic survival conditions or the 2 billion living on $2 or less a day - maybe 3 billion - about a third of the planet lives in less than survival conditions in mega-city slums without clean water or sanitation.

 

I have mentioned some solutions like a German engineer working with the regime in China to re-institute humanure composting. Asian farming used to rely on humanure composting and already some 40 million farmers use it for cooking fuel and growing food. Now the megacities will start doing the same and that will reach another 200 million people. That's a basic top-down structural change.

 

Think about it - just all the human shit that we make in the U.S. could be a huge resource for growing food, etc. Obviously cows and pigs make way more shit than humans and so yes they are increasingly using the manure for biodiesel and for composting. The problem is the "toxic sludge" of combining industrial waste with human manure and then just applying that to fields without even composting it. So composting does have to be done correctly - if it's humanure it needs to compost for at least 2 years to be sanitized.

 

But that keeps it out of the water supply for one thing - if composting toilets are created and that's what is called "ecological sanitation" being developed in Sweden and promoted around the world.

 

Other institutional changes are divestment campaigns or government procurement policies since governments are the main employers and purchasing contracts change policies.

 

But the masses can practice boycotts and join cooperatives that buy fair-trade food without slave labor or toxic synthetic chemicals, etc.

 

For example a good institutional change is the Workers Rights Consortium - I worked to get University in my home state to join this - I was going to do a unlimited hunger strike using my qigong skills secretly. haha. The president of the University emailed me saying I had done enough already and please don't go on hunger strike and then he signed it into action.

 

Essentially a group of Universities will boycott together when a particular factory is very heinous against the workers. So far it has improved conditions at several locations and it is being increased as a tool to pre-emptively only buy from good working conditions.I'm talking about sports athletic apparel which is a multi-million - probably multi-billion profit industry based on basically slave labor conditions around the world.

While I agree with the sentiment that being and working through our energetic being is the most fundamental thing, I feel that this can't happen on a grand scale unless we remove the need for... well "need". Like, for example, if we train qigong to never need to eat at all, how do you think that will change the psyche of the people doing it? Will they continue a freedom fight when they have realized that the freedom that they are fighting for has already entered their beings? This is why I look at arguments like, "If there are ascended masters, why aren't they helping everyone?" For what reason would they? They have attained a perspective that perhaps far supersedes a need to enforce "enlightenment" on people, which is where current "lightworkers" stand in the general community of such people. 

 

For all I know, the Earth has been destroyed countless times, only to have a Toaist Wizard, a Hindu siddha, a Native American dream shaman, a European Rune master, or an African witch doctor reform the prior existence as if nothing happened. Would you or I have any clue that happened? Nope, and yet people who are not at that level, even if they have read and studied systems that hold that potential, are stuck in "freedom-fight" or "save-the-world" modes, completely ignoring that this is the potential afforded to human beings. Despite us here practicing Qigong, Yoga, or other systems of primordial advancement, we are still in a mode of dependence on things that, if we just attained the heights of these systems ourselves, would completely lose their importance to us. What need is there for government in a human race that has realized it's primordial self in a tangible, consistent way?

 

So I do agree that cultivating the awareness and use of our infinite primordial being is indeed the way. However, I would add that if that is the case, then a lot of things that we have come to depend on will drop into obscurity, if not being completely eradicated from our personal life templates.

[voidisyinyang]

What you're describing as a dynamic is a good point.

 

I call this the "trajectory of tantric technology."

 

So you say that the concept of "light workers" is enforcing change on people while the truly enlightened masters have no interest in doing so.

 

Ramana Maharshi made the comment that while there are truly enlightened masters hidden in the Himalayas the karma of energy on Earth is so low right now that none of these masters can really change anything.

 

In fact - to be a truly enlightened master requires such isolation to achieve the results. For example Ramana Maharshi refused to see his mother for when he remained in isolation at the ashram for 9 years - in samadhi - only eating a small bit fed to him by someone else.

 

So the thing is that anyone doing energy training to increase the "frequency" of their energy will have to take into account all the environmental factors of other people or energy sources pulling their energy back down.

 

As per the "tantra trajectory" - the energy training is based on complementary opposites and so if someone is storing up their energy the more they do so then the more others will be attracted to that energy and want to take the energy - even if their attraction is not fully understood on their own level.

 

So the "trajectory of tantric technology" means that western modern technology is actually a projection of repressed life force energy - but since it is repressed it is repressed based on a left-brain dominant inaccurate definition of infinite, a contained geometric materialism. And so the more the technology is developed as a projection then the more it inherently oppresses life on Earth.

 

It does so as the guise of "liberation" and "freedom" but what is actually happening is instead a "separation of heaven (upper body) and earth (lower body) instead of a harmony of heaven and earth as per the real energy training.

 

So with the separation of heaven and earth, again the left brain is dominant for right hand technology which uses iron (the element metal) as passion projected as per the traditional understanding of the elements. This then transforms the water of earth into silica desert which is used via desertification and toxic waste for the metal to take over as machine intelligence and it is done so through fire (solar dynasty heart energy).

 

So water is the pivot point and therefore it is being used up as the leverage energy and water is governed by the lunar female energy.

 

So when I say by doing qigong training we can learn to create water from the Emptiness directly that means by resonating with the lunar cycle we create enough yin qi energy to go into the solar energy properly as harmonic energy so that it resonates into the Cosmic Mother as the Emptiness properly.

 

There's no way that the human masses are going to learn to do this. Humans as a culture did all train to do this as the original human culture for 90% of human history - the Bushmen culture originating as the Sandawe. This is completely ignored and unknown by the human masses too caught up the technocracy.

 

A great new expose on the technocracy is by Julian Assange exposing the seemingly benign Google as really a military company working closely for expanding U.S. imperialism - really a mass-mind control project.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/assange-google-not-what-it-seems-279447 here

 

So some seeming technocracy project is really Google in action, in league with the NSA, dutifully recording and processing all the self-reporting details of the world - and to what end - to properly leverage and channel that information for imperial elite interests. All under the guise of free information exchange for the most efficient use of technological development.

 

Again, in actuality, there is a built in "diminishing rate of return" on technology due to the foundation of inaccurate infinity that it is based on.

 

You want to say that maybe our past has been contrived and that some enlightened masters have recreated life on Earth for us. This reminds me of the qigong master telling me that God is creating new species on Earth right now and so we don't have to be concerned about the ecological crisis.

 

In actuality these types of fantasies are just projections of the techno-fix mentality - the "commodity fetish" that is driven by a desire for materialistic control over Earth. The origins of modern technology are precisely with these Solar Dynasty ritual priests as alchemists who believed they could "contain" infinity within their bodies by storing up their energy.

 

In the original human culture the purpose of energy training was to heal the females and to have harmonic relations with the environment for the safety of the community and better hunting, etc. If a person was "hoarding their n/om" (the boiling energy in the lower tan tien) this was considered a big wrong use of the energy. But what happened is that some of the energy masters did isolate themselves from the rest of the community in order to build up their energy further so they could master the "yang shen" level - the ability for physical transformations. And so the rest of the humans became afraid of these high level masters. But at first if the energy masters were leaving their body too much to travel into heaven - the females would throw water on the male energy masters - water to bring the masters back to their bodies and so the masters could focus on healing the females and not just on their own build up of power.

 

And so while it is easy to dismiss physical reality as a possible illusion - maybe it was recreated in the past by former masters you say - or as another qigong master said maybe God is recreating ecology now for us - this is in actuality an excuse to avoid the needed focus on "harmony of heaven and earth" as a job of ecological sustainability in present times.

 

I'm not saying that anyone can achieve ecological sustainability in present times but that we should at least be honest about what the current role of modern technology is for life on Earth. It is unfortunate that scientists try to report these developments but the political elite have censored them and even changed their words around to change the meanings - not to mention the attacks on ecological activists and social justice activists who are non-violent. For the billions on Earth of humans living in terrible conditions they do so precisely because of the genocidal policies of the elite stealing the resources of the poor as a process of "primitive accumulation." And then these people take to violence as a last attempt for self-defense and so immediately can then be outed as terrorists or guerrillas or communists, parasites, etc. so that the final solution can be implemented against them.

 

But Mother Nature is just as powerful as all these technologies - and so the viruses and bacteria will continue to adapt and over-rule humans - and whatever other catastrophes will kick in - supervolcanos like with Mount Toba that reduced the whole human population to a few thousand back 70,000 years ago - or whatever. Ecology will develop again as there has been life on Earth for billions of years - the dominant species was the Gorgon, 200 million years ago - a large reptilian lion like animal that needed a lot of oxygen. The Troodon was the biggest brain dinosaur, about the size of human, also needing more oxygen. It may be that this oxygen intake that "burns" up food is key to the ionization process - as chi energy neutralizes free radicals and the chi energy is taken up by the Earth energy via grounding - an internal tingling is felt that activates the parasympathetic nervous system. And so the heart frequency of the REM dreaming visionary state is resonating with the Schumann frequency of the Earth-ionosphere lightning energy.

 

Gurdjieff stated that if life on Earth does not respect and help the Moon grow spiritually then the Moon will destroy all life on Earth and ecology will start over again. This is the lunar force governing life through the water cycle on Earth - and so it is the quasi-crystal state of water that has been revealed as a sonofusion energy, an acoustic cavitation via ultrasound that creates then a hotter than the sun laser energy for alchemical transmutations.

 

The inner ear of modern humans is activated by the vagus nerve and connects to the third eye pineal gland as the theta REM visionary state - but the inner ear used to be the jaw bone of our ancestors when we lived in trees - as tree shrews. And so the inner ear activated by inner sound infinite energy focus - as a listening process - is the secret of the "inner smile" activation of the third eye energy. And so then the holographic visionary dream state reality is actually a 2-dimensional energy that bypasses the fake 3-D bifocal vision focus of the materialistic "containment" of infinity by us modern humans. We originated in forests where listening was the dominant perception but as modern humans developed in the savannah we began to be dependent on the depth perception from the bifocal vision of the two eyes, forgetting that the inner ear jaw bone of our forest origins activates the third eye visionary energy.

 

And so it is not that some previous enlightened shamans recreated life on Earth or that God is recreating ecology in rapid time right now - but rather there is an impersonal infinite process of harmony of lunar/earth/solar energy that is eternally being activated here. We lost touch with it but the destruction of ecology and social harmony on Earth is actually an impersonal cycling of the elements that we are just a part of - in terms of a great energy dynamic. What remains consistent in the whole process is precisely this larger cycling of energy and energy creation - as the formless impersonal dynamic of complementary opposites from the Cosmic Mother or the Emptiness as the Wu Chi - it is inherently female as the water element is inherently the lunar pivot that resonates from its source, the first materialistic manifestation of the infinite consciousness-energy that can not be seen. It can only be listened to - and so as Ramana Maharshi said - it is Mouna Samadhi - it can not be a vision in spacetime at all.

 

Instead of each human facing this truth existentially through our deaths and our energy training that transcends death - humanity as a whole is now facing it but the deeper truth has long since been buried in our distant path.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[ralis]

NASA scientist - California has one year of water left.

 

http://t.co/dfKk5VTMeK

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2013/07/california_grows_all_of_our_fruits_and_vegetables_what_would_we_eat_without.html

 

California is the main source of produce for the U.S.

 

things are gonna get interesting very fast.

 

The denial has been strong.

 

I call this the Alchemy of DeNile as Egypt underwent desertification a long time ago but the same desertification process has spread around the world as Western-based farming.

 

 

I have been to Lake Mead several times over the last few years and the lake has reached a new low of 132.19 ft. below full pool level (41.1% of full pool). Crops, irrigation, hydroelectric power generation, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, parts of Mexico and Southern California are effected. 

 

The lake level is currently 15 ft. above the first level of rationing.

 

http://lakemead.water-data.com/

 

http://www.arachnoid.com/NaturalResources/

 

Edited March 16, 2015 by ralis

[ralis]

San Paulo Brazil with a population of 20 million has been hit by a severe drought may run out of water by June.

 

http://www.ryot.org/sao-paulo-south-americas-largest-city-will-run-water-june/924803

[the1gza]

What you're describing as a dynamic is a good point.

 

I call this the "trajectory of tantric technology."

 

So you say that the concept of "light workers" is enforcing change on people while the truly enlightened masters have no interest in doing so.

 

Ramana Maharshi made the comment that while there are truly enlightened masters hidden in the Himalayas the karma of energy on Earth is so low right now that none of these masters can really change anything.

 

In fact - to be a truly enlightened master requires such isolation to achieve the results. For example Ramana Maharshi refused to see his mother for when he remained in isolation at the ashram for 9 years - in samadhi - only eating a small bit fed to him by someone else.

 

So the thing is that anyone doing energy training to increase the "frequency" of their energy will have to take into account all the environmental factors of other people or energy sources pulling their energy back down.

 

As per the "tantra trajectory" - the energy training is based on complementary opposites and so if someone is storing up their energy the more they do so then the more others will be attracted to that energy and want to take the energy - even if their attraction is not fully understood on their own level.

 

So the "trajectory of tantric technology" means that western modern technology is actually a projection of repressed life force energy - but since it is repressed it is repressed based on a left-brain dominant inaccurate definition of infinite, a contained geometric materialism. And so the more the technology is developed as a projection then the more it inherently oppresses life on Earth.

 

It does so as the guise of "liberation" and "freedom" but what is actually happening is instead a "separation of heaven (upper body) and earth (lower body) instead of a harmony of heaven and earth as per the real energy training.

 

So with the separation of heaven and earth, again the left brain is dominant for right hand technology which uses iron (the element metal) as passion projected as per the traditional understanding of the elements. This then transforms the water of earth into silica desert which is used via desertification and toxic waste for the metal to take over as machine intelligence and it is done so through fire (solar dynasty heart energy).

 

So water is the pivot point and therefore it is being used up as the leverage energy and water is governed by the lunar female energy.

 

So when I say by doing qigong training we can learn to create water from the Emptiness directly that means by resonating with the lunar cycle we create enough yin qi energy to go into the solar energy properly as harmonic energy so that it resonates into the Cosmic Mother as the Emptiness properly.

 

There's no way that the human masses are going to learn to do this. Humans as a culture did all train to do this as the original human culture for 90% of human history - the Bushmen culture originating as the Sandawe. This is completely ignored and unknown by the human masses too caught up the technocracy.

 

A great new expose on the technocracy is by Julian Assange exposing the seemingly benign Google as really a military company working closely for expanding U.S. imperialism - really a mass-mind control project.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/assange-google-not-what-it-seems-279447 here

 

So some seeming technocracy project is really Google in action, in league with the NSA, dutifully recording and processing all the self-reporting details of the world - and to what end - to properly leverage and channel that information for imperial elite interests. All under the guise of free information exchange for the most efficient use of technological development.

 

Again, in actuality, there is a built in "diminishing rate of return" on technology due to the foundation of inaccurate infinity that it is based on.

 

You want to say that maybe our past has been contrived and that some enlightened masters have recreated life on Earth for us. This reminds me of the qigong master telling me that God is creating new species on Earth right now and so we don't have to be concerned about the ecological crisis.

 

In actuality these types of fantasies are just projections of the techno-fix mentality - the "commodity fetish" that is driven by a desire for materialistic control over Earth. The origins of modern technology are precisely with these Solar Dynasty ritual priests as alchemists who believed they could "contain" infinity within their bodies by storing up their energy.

 

In the original human culture the purpose of energy training was to heal the females and to have harmonic relations with the environment for the safety of the community and better hunting, etc. If a person was "hoarding their n/om" (the boiling energy in the lower tan tien) this was considered a big wrong use of the energy. But what happened is that some of the energy masters did isolate themselves from the rest of the community in order to build up their energy further so they could master the "yang shen" level - the ability for physical transformations. And so the rest of the humans became afraid of these high level masters. But at first if the energy masters were leaving their body too much to travel into heaven - the females would throw water on the male energy masters - water to bring the masters back to their bodies and so the masters could focus on healing the females and not just on their own build up of power.

 

And so while it is easy to dismiss physical reality as a possible illusion - maybe it was recreated in the past by former masters you say - or as another qigong master said maybe God is recreating ecology now for us - this is in actuality an excuse to avoid the needed focus on "harmony of heaven and earth" as a job of ecological sustainability in present times.

 

I'm not saying that anyone can achieve ecological sustainability in present times but that we should at least be honest about what the current role of modern technology is for life on Earth. It is unfortunate that scientists try to report these developments but the political elite have censored them and even changed their words around to change the meanings - not to mention the attacks on ecological activists and social justice activists who are non-violent. For the billions on Earth of humans living in terrible conditions they do so precisely because of the genocidal policies of the elite stealing the resources of the poor as a process of "primitive accumulation." And then these people take to violence as a last attempt for self-defense and so immediately can then be outed as terrorists or guerrillas or communists, parasites, etc. so that the final solution can be implemented against them.

 

But Mother Nature is just as powerful as all these technologies - and so the viruses and bacteria will continue to adapt and over-rule humans - and whatever other catastrophes will kick in - supervolcanos like with Mount Toba that reduced the whole human population to a few thousand back 70,000 years ago - or whatever. Ecology will develop again as there has been life on Earth for billions of years - the dominant species was the Gorgon, 200 million years ago - a large reptilian lion like animal that needed a lot of oxygen. The Troodon was the biggest brain dinosaur, about the size of human, also needing more oxygen. It may be that this oxygen intake that "burns" up food is key to the ionization process - as chi energy neutralizes free radicals and the chi energy is taken up by the Earth energy via grounding - an internal tingling is felt that activates the parasympathetic nervous system. And so the heart frequency of the REM dreaming visionary state is resonating with the Schumann frequency of the Earth-ionosphere lightning energy.

 

Gurdjieff stated that if life on Earth does not respect and help the Moon grow spiritually then the Moon will destroy all life on Earth and ecology will start over again. This is the lunar force governing life through the water cycle on Earth - and so it is the quasi-crystal state of water that has been revealed as a sonofusion energy, an acoustic cavitation via ultrasound that creates then a hotter than the sun laser energy for alchemical transmutations.

 

The inner ear of modern humans is activated by the vagus nerve and connects to the third eye pineal gland as the theta REM visionary state - but the inner ear used to be the jaw bone of our ancestors when we lived in trees - as tree shrews. And so the inner ear activated by inner sound infinite energy focus - as a listening process - is the secret of the "inner smile" activation of the third eye energy. And so then the holographic visionary dream state reality is actually a 2-dimensional energy that bypasses the fake 3-D bifocal vision focus of the materialistic "containment" of infinity by us modern humans. We originated in forests where listening was the dominant perception but as modern humans developed in the savannah we began to be dependent on the depth perception from the bifocal vision of the two eyes, forgetting that the inner ear jaw bone of our forest origins activates the third eye visionary energy.

 

And so it is not that some previous enlightened shamans recreated life on Earth or that God is recreating ecology in rapid time right now - but rather there is an impersonal infinite process of harmony of lunar/earth/solar energy that is eternally being activated here. We lost touch with it but the destruction of ecology and social harmony on Earth is actually an impersonal cycling of the elements that we are just a part of - in terms of a great energy dynamic. What remains consistent in the whole process is precisely this larger cycling of energy and energy creation - as the formless impersonal dynamic of complementary opposites from the Cosmic Mother or the Emptiness as the Wu Chi - it is inherently female as the water element is inherently the lunar pivot that resonates from its source, the first materialistic manifestation of the infinite consciousness-energy that can not be seen. It can only be listened to - and so as Ramana Maharshi said - it is Mouna Samadhi - it can not be a vision in spacetime at all.

 

Instead of each human facing this truth existentially through our deaths and our energy training that transcends death - humanity as a whole is now facing it but the deeper truth has long since been buried in our distant path.

I can get what your saying, but I think you lost what I was saying because you have your own idea of what people were like, and what "harmony" is. I didn't say for certain that some ancient masters recreated the Earth, I'm saying that if they did, and reformed it to be just like the one we are living in right now, we would have no clue what happened. I mean everything that you are saying is based on time, but these great Yogi or Taoist teachings we are talking about take people beyond the idea of time, space, or reality as we know it. Now if they decided to come back and live according to time, that's up to them. But these teachings took people beyond that, and beyond the need for locality in the Earth.

 

I also find no reason as to why what our ancestors did was somehow "better" than what we do now. Yea, they may have worked with a form of primordial energy, but clearly it wasn't enough to sustain their explorative nature. Fact is, while many cultures based their spirituality off these things, there are several that didn't give a shit about lunar cycles or anything of that nature. And yet, it worked out for them despite exploring things in a completely different manner with different sets of priorities. 

 

This is what I am saying, we are trying to put primordial exploration into boxes that can't contain it. I don't care what some Maharishi did to attain his work, that's one him. But I know that the vibration of the planet has nothing to do with your attainment unless you feel it's important. Yogis have been isolationist since the philosophy began, it doesn't mean that what they did means anything important to anyone but them. Yoga theory is heavily based on Hindu religion, whereas the techniques that Yoga uses are not dependent on them. But I know several people who are about as "worldly" as anyone, and they can do more than enough of the things that "low-vibrations" supposedly inhibit.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying the truth you arrive at may not be "the truth" of the world. Again, I find no nobility or even sense in talking about ancient people who's philosophies didn't seem to hold enough power to keep the Earth in a healthy state. At some point, that philosophy failed, and for every successful Yogi, there are 1000 people who followed those teachings and failed to do anything close to becoming self-realized. If folks had it "all correct" from the past, then how did people even enter this disharmony?

 

We can act like we know about these things, but honestly, neither you nor I, nor even those masters have come any closer to explaining our primordial nature than Dr. Seuss. And that's fine, I think attempting to define it is missing the point. Attempting to systematize it, dogmatize it... these  are the very things that are the antecedents to every human failure in civilization. We try to systematize education, food distribution, housing, exercise... all these things systematized, and all of them have suffered extreme dysfunction because of it. So why would we go about exploring unlimited exploration conforming to a dogma that may not actually speak to how we actually awaken. Sure, I would agree for some that the ancient Eastern methods are ways to attaining their primordial nature. But for others, I would say it has nothing to do with them... does that mean they cannot find their primordial knowing, because they are dealing with concepts like yin and yang? 

 

That's all I'm sayin', and reminiscing about cultures who got wiped out... what a whole lotta good that did them. They don't have a template for a working reality, because it didn't work for them when they needed to survive, or it didn't allow them to fulfill their desires enough to feel complete. So while there are many things in ancient theories that can be helpful, I don't feel that we should be looking backward to move forward. Again, there are so many ways of cultivating that have nothing to do with what you are talking about, so that is clearly something that might be important to you, but does not represent the vast diaspora of not just people, but reality at large. Just because Ramana Maharshi says something doesn't mean it has anything to do with what's going on. It's a very convenient idea that can explain why HE can't change anything, but I know some of these masters he would be talking about, and they don't (all) live in the Himalayas. Some are here in the city of Chicago, so those ideals... not really all that substantial when it comes to what reality does present, let alone what it can present.

[Lth]

And I don't think anyone should take it seriously when the people who do "take it seriously" only talk about the problem. I mean, I have heard this answer several hundred times, and in those several hundred times, all the people bringing up the problem only had one thing they were doing: "informing". No boots-to-the-ground work, no activat action their part that demonstrates how their ideals work. It's like someone hounding you with fitness and "healthy eating" info, and yet their regular habits are dining at McDonald's and watching "Scandal" marathons on Hulu and Netflix. Nobody's gonna give a damn about that, so I can't blame people for not acknowledging "concerned" individuals who aren't putting their concerns as a prime directive in their own lives.

 

the problem is not "out there", the problem is inside. out there is only a manifestation of what is inside. so what is needed is shift in consciousness to transcend the deep rooted problem that has been accepted as truth and nature of human reality for centuries. indeed that is why people do not see it, because what they are looking at is false and disconnected.

 

you wanna see a person working for a goal, but want to be seperate at the same time. that is ignorance

 

fitness, healthy eating is a doorway into that state, albeit a very small one (excluding mcdonalds)

[voidisyinyang]

Thankfully, a new kind of agriculture is emerging to meet these ecological, social, and economic challenges. The new farmers may call their farms “organic,” “ecological,” “biological,” “holistic,” or “biodynamic.” Their farming methods may be called “agroecology,” “nature farming,” or “permaculture.” They all fit under the conceptual umbrella of sustainable agriculture. They are committed to meeting the food needs of all in the present without diminishing opportunities for those who will live in the future. The strength of this movement is most visible in the growth of the organic-foods market, although some types of “organic farms,” especially those mimicking industrial agriculture, may not be sustainable. Sales of organic foods grew by more than 20% per year during the 1990s and early 2000s, before leveling off at around 10%–12% annual growth following the recession of 2008. Organic foods now amount to around $35 billion in annual sales, something less than 5% of total food sales. The local food movement, as exemplified by farmers markets and “community supported agriculture,” has replaced organics as the most dynamic sector of the food market, although it is only about half as large in sales.

 

http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2015/0315ikerd.html

 

I know Target is doubling their organic sales.

 

Not saying it will change things dramatically - but a local focus will have to be the future.