Living Family Permaculture Vs Dead Cities

[the1gza]

Who said I want to be separate? That's what I am saying, what you are defining as "separation" has everything to do with a perception where separation can exist. Essentially, based on all these teachings you are drawing from, the idea of separation is a self-contrived nothing, if one was truly separate, they couldn't even exist because there is no existence that is not "the Tao" or whatever folks refer to the Tao as. This is where I am coming from, the essential nature of what that unlimited Tao. The teachings revolving around it are interpretations and methods based on those interpretations. I'm not calling my interpretation superior, but what I am pointing to is the fact that people have followed interpretations as if those interpretations were the sole "way" of the Tao.

 

I mean you are saying I want to be separate, and yet you refer to Maharshi, who went in a cave and isolated himself from everything but his practice. In fact, after re-reading my own post, I don't even know where I once said I wanted to be separate from anything, and yet you are using isolationist doctrines to support what you are saying. I mean...I honestly don't even know how to respond to that type of thing.

 

Again, I am someone who agrees with primordial exploration being the way to solve the world's problems. However, the reason I ask folks like you what the solution is comes from the fact that you keep bringing the "problems" up. This is a quote from you"

 

the problem is not "out there", the problem is inside. out there is only a manifestation of what is inside. so what is needed is shift in consciousness to transcend the deep rooted problem that has been accepted as truth and nature of human reality for centuries. indeed that is why people do not see it, because what they are looking at is false and disconnected.

 I agree with this, so why oh why are you posting several posts about various "problems" when these problems, by your own definition, comes from one source? You didn't even post any solution until I asked you about it, and yet you spent several posts before it bringing up more and more points of where mans "has got it wrong"? Why the hell are you pointing out all these things if the problem is really rooted internally, and until I asked you something about what you thought, you didn't even point to this theory. It was "Food Crisis" or "technology" dependence, there wasn't a single reference towards internal work being how to get back, or how the root of the problem was within the internal matrix of each person. Your posts reflect someone who was looking "out there", because that all you talked about - smog, melting ice caps, damaged soil, water problems - nearly everything but that internal work you are now saying is the key.

 

But what I don't get is still how we talk of internal problems, and yet it still revolves around depending on something "out there". Just because the sun and the moon are not pieces of man-made tech doesn't make them any less "out there" when you are placing your necessity of living on their perceived cycles. Is that why I am being considered separate in your mind... I mean I'm honestly trying to understand where you are coming from, when you say one thing that completely doesn't support another thing you are saying.

 

I'm only asking you for a solution to what you present as a problem because you are presenting it. If you are presenting problems without talking about possible fixes, that's masturbation. The shit you are talking about... I honestly don't give a shit. I do, however, give a shit about being on a forum where folks catastrophize without lending any views on helping relieve the situation. In a forum such as this one, where we are talking about excelling to human potential, it is asinine to talk of any problem without putting up a thorough solution. But if folks are just going to get masturbative about it, and assume people don't know something that many of us do know about, then that's just useless to everyone, including the person posting. 

[the1gza]

You know what, my bad. I realized that since I do not care about focusing on these things in the way people do, it really is not my place to comment, no matter how bone-headed I think some of the things are. It's not my place to tell people what to feel, so I'm gonna bow out of this convo, and I'll make sure to exert some self-control on topics of this nature. My fault.

[voidisyinyang]

http://t.co/u5ABXmT7zA

 

I've been doing a lot of business with this farm - organic - but I didn't know they are newly "Fair Trade Certified" and so the workers have a democratic committee that invests the new revenue they receive from their Fair Trade status.

 

This is awesome news and great to do business with them.

[Lth]

You know what, my bad. I realized that since I do not care about focusing on these things in the way people do, it really is not my place to comment, no matter how bone-headed I think some of the things are. It's not my place to tell people what to feel, so I'm gonna bow out of this convo, and I'll make sure to exert some self-control on topics of this nature. My fault.

 

if you look at history, majority of positive change in society were not brought about by force, but rather what is called peaceful non-cooperation

 

so maybe its not so bone headed after all

[Lth]

Who said I want to be separate? That's what I am saying, what you are defining as "separation" has everything to do with a perception where separation can exist. Essentially, based on all these teachings you are drawing from, the idea of separation is a self-contrived nothing, if one was truly separate, they couldn't even exist because there is no existence that is not "the Tao" or whatever folks refer to the Tao as. This is where I am coming from, the essential nature of what that unlimited Tao. The teachings revolving around it are interpretations and methods based on those interpretations. I'm not calling my interpretation superior, but what I am pointing to is the fact that people have followed interpretations as if those interpretations were the sole "way" of the Tao.

 

I mean you are saying I want to be separate, and yet you refer to Maharshi, who went in a cave and isolated himself from everything but his practice. In fact, after re-reading my own post, I don't even know where I once said I wanted to be separate from anything, and yet you are using isolationist doctrines to support what you are saying. I mean...I honestly don't even know how to respond to that type of thing.

 

Again, I am someone who agrees with primordial exploration being the way to solve the world's problems. However, the reason I ask folks like you what the solution is comes from the fact that you keep bringing the "problems" up. This is a quote from you"

 

 I agree with this, so why oh why are you posting several posts about various "problems" when these problems, by your own definition, comes from one source? You didn't even post any solution until I asked you about it, and yet you spent several posts before it bringing up more and more points of where mans "has got it wrong"? Why the hell are you pointing out all these things if the problem is really rooted internally, and until I asked you something about what you thought, you didn't even point to this theory. It was "Food Crisis" or "technology" dependence, there wasn't a single reference towards internal work being how to get back, or how the root of the problem was within the internal matrix of each person. Your posts reflect someone who was looking "out there", because that all you talked about - smog, melting ice caps, damaged soil, water problems - nearly everything but that internal work you are now saying is the key.

 

But what I don't get is still how we talk of internal problems, and yet it still revolves around depending on something "out there". Just because the sun and the moon are not pieces of man-made tech doesn't make them any less "out there" when you are placing your necessity of living on their perceived cycles. Is that why I am being considered separate in your mind... I mean I'm honestly trying to understand where you are coming from, when you say one thing that completely doesn't support another thing you are saying.

 

I'm only asking you for a solution to what you present as a problem because you are presenting it. If you are presenting problems without talking about possible fixes, that's masturbation. The shit you are talking about... I honestly don't give a shit. I do, however, give a shit about being on a forum where folks catastrophize without lending any views on helping relieve the situation. In a forum such as this one, where we are talking about excelling to human potential, it is asinine to talk of any problem without putting up a thorough solution. But if folks are just going to get masturbative about it, and assume people don't know something that many of us do know about, then that's just useless to everyone, including the person posting. 

 

do you not see the flaw in your mind, wanting to see a result without actually paving a way for it. a plant must have seeds to grow. the seeds grow when there is balance in nature, sun and water

 

the current disparity is too huge to be able to exert control over it im afraid, hence the energy practice being a way to counteract the distortion

 

so i will say it again, what is without comes from within. that is your solution

 

dont try to put the cart before the horse, as they say it

[the1gza]

Bruh, 

 

do you not see the flaw in your mind, wanting to see a result without actually paving a way for it. a plant must have seeds to grow. the seeds grow when there is balance in nature, sun and water

the current disparity is too huge to be able to exert control over it im afraid, hence the energy practice being a way to counteract the distortion

so i will say it again, what is without comes from within. that is your solution

dont try to put the cart before the horse, as they say it

Lth, did you really have to respond to a person who bowed out of the topic? I mean, I could sit here all day and pick this apart, but that's not my aim at all, I'm just wondering why you would post a response like this to a cat who has chosen to bow out of this conversation. Is this really helpful to anyone... if you even read my comment on bowing out, I would think any sensible person would at least think there's a high possibility that I wouldn't even read it. How is this helpful to anyone, I honestly want to know what you thought the purpose of this was. You don't have to respond here, or at all for that matter, but this just seems completely useless. I'm not gonna argue here, and I'm not looking to argue, I'm just wondering how this was supposed to be useful when you are responding to someone who has chosen to leave the conversation.

[Lth]

Bruh, 

 

Lth, did you really have to respond to a person who bowed out of the topic? I mean, I could sit here all day and pick this apart, but that's not my aim at all, I'm just wondering why you would post a response like this to a cat who has chosen to bow out of this conversation. Is this really helpful to anyone... if you even read my comment on bowing out, I would think any sensible person would at least think there's a high possibility that I wouldn't even read it. How is this helpful to anyone, I honestly want to know what you thought the purpose of this was. You don't have to respond here, or at all for that matter, but this just seems completely useless. I'm not gonna argue here, and I'm not looking to argue, I'm just wondering how this was supposed to be useful when you are responding to someone who has chosen to leave the conversation.

 

i am happy for you the1gza, and i will not respond to you if you want

[freeform]

Any 'solution' to the world's problems that suggests a return to an idealised, utopic existence from the past should be treated with a huge amount of skepticism! The world's most damaging regimes and their leaders were all very much supporters of 'the return' - Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler etc... please learn from history before embarking on ideas that (when given real power) result in horrifying atrocities.

 

1) We're not 'destroying the earth'. Climate change is what happens with our involvement or not: the earth has seen countless periods of mass extinctions, countless global warming and cooling periods - that's just what happens - but on a timescale that's hard to grasp for humans. We're not destroying the earth we're just destroying our own habitat. We're shitting where we eat and soon we'll be eating our own shit. (That wasn't meant to be a joke on humanure! )

 

2) All the 'problems' (aka shitting where we eat) are directly linked with overpopulation. It's not a popular subject because in our Christianised minds - where life is valued above anything else - we'd be forced to confront the fact that there's simply no way out of these 'problems' without at least slowing population growth, but more realistically actually lowering total population.

 

3) Places with higher levels of education and greater quality of life have stable populations. Poorer countries with less education and less of the basic needs being met for most people have exploding population growth. There's something to be learned from this...

 

4) There have been many experiments conducted on artificially high-density living in rat populations. Many interesting parallels can be drawn in human populations. The rat populations in these high density environments would explode, this would go hand in hand with unusual behaviour changes for rats - such as sexual deviancy, the creation of hierarchical social structures - as in alpha-rat with his harem of female rats controlling an area of their environment - strange communal feeding behaviours, random violence and the creation of a sort of 'underclass' - highly stressed, physically weak rats that were picked on and forcibly isolated by the others.

 

As the experiments progressed - after many generations of extreme growth, suddenly there would be a plateau where a generation of rats would completely lose their ability to socially interact with other rats - they would feed by themselves and have no real contact with anyone else (baring in mind that this is still in a very high population density). The population would very quickly completely die out because the rats would stop mating.

 

John Calhoun - who started this research repeated the experiment many many times and the result would be the same each time. He did however start devising some solutions. One of them was adjusting the environment in such a way that forced the rats to cooperate (eg. The feeding machines would require two or more rats to cooperate by pressing separate buttons to get food out) - this created a change in the behaviours (less sexual deviancy, violence, social segregation/forced isolation etc) - but from what I remember, the populations still eventually died out...

 

5) My friend, who's a big fan of the Venus Project really hates it when I call the founder, Jaques Frescoe, 'the sweet old man who likes to make miniature models'. In reality that body of work has no workable solutions apart from an idealised end-state characterised by Jaques' cool little models. Many of the better ideas are actually based on Bucky Fuller's work. I do like the idea of a 'resource' economy - that taxes not work or ideas or human enterprise, but the use of finite resources. But putting this in action is another matter all together. Bucky had a few subversive ideas on how to slowly transition us to thinking of the world as an ecosystem (such as a super efficient world electric grid, that took advantage of fluctuations of power usage based on night and day across the globe).

 

In conclusion - there is no one right way to 'solve' this - education, global consciousness, cooperation and natural systems seem to provide some helpful avenues of research and experimentation. Idealised end-states tend to result in catastrophic atrocities.

 

Doing something productive even if on a tiny, individual scale is better than sitting around dreaming.

 

For example I've been experimenting with improving soil in my garden and a few local areas by use of microbial action (fermenting food waste and using the resulting ferment in soil)...

 

Also I've been planting a bush I discovered that has almost magical properties (improving soil, nitrogen fixing (from the air), bringing up minerals locked deep down where most roots don't get to and even producing super nutritious fruit that has all the makings of a 'superfood'). I know this won't change the world directly - but it's certainly better than building little models of futuristic cities.

Edited March 19, 2015 by freeform

[Lth]

yes, mostly what the venus project and zeitgeist movement is doing is getting people out of perpetual denial. other than that, if one person had a magical blueprint to solve every problem in society, pretty sure he would not stay out there for long, like many inventors, people who challenged the status quo, or just became too important of a person, promoting free thinking. so you have a society where people are expected to act on someone else's created ideals. doesnt matter if they have a good cause or a bad cause. heck, there are even cases where people get arrested for locally growing and selling organic food. talk about a threat. majority of people are unaware.

 

Doing something productive even if on a tiny, individual scale is better than sitting around dreaming.

a fully conscious individual does not dream anymore, even when sleeping, his etheric body is fully awake and active.

on another note, yes, working towards a solution is always applauded, but the question is, how will you get it to other people, and how will you bypass the current institutions limitations for benefitting others

that is well and right if you discover groundbreaking things, if there is no audience to accept it, it soon bleaks into darkness, just because people were not yet ready for it

and this is exactly what the big mean machine wants. wants you to focus on individual goals, profit making, keeping secrets, using others for selfish gain etc. the power is in numbers. thougths have power, emotions have even bigger

no matter if you take the most advanced qigong master, against millions of people - it is obsolete
 

[Lth]

[voidisyinyang]

I actually did a  whole blog post on Permaculture as qigong alchemy training.

 

http://innersoundqigong.blogspot.com/2014/09/mysteries-of-lower-tan-tien-qigong.html

 

 

This is from Sept. last year.

 

Mysteries of the Lower Tan Tien: Qigong Alchemy training as Permaculture Restoration Agroecology Farming