Re the model for a doable anarch: let's alpha test it

[Taomeow]

Coming back to a few comments above... as we've had a break-through in figuring out how to set it up.

 

Not sure we can do some of the below, but just asking as the thread continues to comment on ideas.

 

There can only be one Highlander [Original Poster] who starts a thread:

1. Should the OP approve every post before it is shown?   Otherwise it stays hidden. 

2. Should the OP hide posts at will?

3. Should the OP delete posts at will?

4. Should the OP move posts at will?

 

The issue which arises with 'hiding' is that anyone with the same Highlander permissions could really see the hidden thread anyways... not sure if they could actually approve it.

 

Another problem with hiding is that it is not uncommon for someone else with the power to 'see' what is hidden to mistakenly 'unhide' it !

 

To give 'delete' permissions means any Highlander technically has it... and it is easy to mis-use.  And Staff has a harder time to see what was the post removed content (poof... gone).

 

Any further thoughts are welcomed. 

Wow!  Thank you!  The ice is breaking, the tide is turning... 

 

1. Should the OP approve every post before it is shown?   Otherwise it stays hidden. 

 

Not sure.  Worth thinking about.  Off the top of my head, "yes," but if the OP is simply busy elsewhere and the delay frustrates the contributor, this could create unnecessary tensions.  Let's brainstorm.

 

2. Should the OP hide posts at will?

 

Doesn't seem worth it since you're saying it's impossible to hide from others with the same access level to the section anyway?  So, if it's impossible, then no.   But if it's possible, then yes.  

 

3. Should the OP delete posts at will?

 

Yes.  A clean-up would happen where a derail or an unwelcome challenge or any number of contentious "contaminations" would "normally" take place.  If it doesn't belong, it is gone.  Perhaps the OP will courteously inform the contributor that the contribution was considered and found incompatible with the intent of the OP.  

 

4. Should the OP move posts at will?

 

No.  Don't like this practice anywhere anyway.  Posts that don't belong should not be posted.  Whoever made the mistake of posting something of interest to them that ignores what's of interest to the OP should shoulder the consequences.  I wouldn't want the OP to work too hard.  Clean, unclutter.  Good housekeeping.  Good feng shui.  Anyone who tries to avoid a mess in his or her environment knows that it is not accomplished by transporting the mess from one corner to another or sweeping it under the rug.  You clean and discard your unwanted stuff, not pile it up elsewhere. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by Taomeow

[dawei]

Wow!  Thank you!  The ice is breaking, the tide is turning... 

 

mostly from skills at tinkering with settings at multiple layers of permissions

 

1. Should the OP approve every post before it is shown?   Otherwise it stays hidden. 

 

Not sure.  Worth thinking about.  Off the top of my head, "yes," but if the OP is simply busy elsewhere and the delay frustrates the contributor, this could create unnecessary tensions.  Let's brainstorm.

 

This does seem unnecessary but would be the final form of controlling one's own thread...  The problem seems to be anyone within the 'moderating group' will see it anyways.   So same problem as hiding.

 

2. Should the OP hide posts at will?

 

Doesn't seem worth it since you're saying it's impossible to hide from others with the same access level to the section anyway?  So, if it's impossible, then no.   But if it's possible, then yes.

 

Problem realized in testing... is that anyone with the Anarchist mod permissions will be able to still see it... and can even accidentally unhide it... so seems troublesome.

 

 

3. Should the OP delete posts at will?

 

Yes.  A clean-up would happen where a derail or an unwelcome challenge or any number of contentious "contaminations" would "normally" take place.  If it doesn't belong, it is gone.  Perhaps the OP will courteously inform the contributor that the contribution was considered and found incompatible with the intent of the OP.

 

This will have a similar problem to hiding as anyone with the forum area permissions can delete... but this is the one place where likely the 'honestly policy' will really test everyone.  You are not supposed to use it unless the thread is yours.

 

 

4. Should the OP move posts at will?

 

No.  Don't like this practice anywhere anyway.  Posts that don't belong should not be posted.  Whoever made the mistake of posting something of interest to them that ignores what's of interest to the OP should shoulder the consequences.  I wouldn't want the OP to work too hard.  Clean, unclutter.  Good housekeeping.  Good feng shui.  Anyone who tries to avoid a mess in his or her environment knows that it is not accomplished by transporting the mess from one corner to another or sweeping it under the rug.  You clean and discard your unwanted stuff, not pile it up elsewhere.

 

This practice would be: Either this or Delete... not really both.    So only one action would be taken.

 

The only reason this option is raised is because of the extreme rights to Delete and technically anyone with the right can do it anywhere in that forum.

 

A "Move" was considered as we could still see and retrieve the post as needed.  In such a case, a "Trash Can" sub-area would maybe be used...   The challenge is that having "Move" actually allows you to move it anywhere in the entire TDB!

[Daeluin]

If, hypothetically, we could customize the code to avoid the various issues raised by the everyone-is-a-moderator solution, would that be better? Hypothetically, then would a particular option be more or less desirable?

 

I hear what is being said about post-approval leading to tension created by delays. On the other hand, I like how this approach would intrinsically deal with many of the problems I can think of. Delays, yes... but people will need to get over that. Perhaps their post won't be approved. If they simply wait in hope forever, that's on them - they need to let go and accept whatever happens. And again this is an internal process, not as likely to result in blame projected onto the OP as getting their posts deleted and being banned from a thread.

 

If I start to post in a thread, and I know the OP will need to approve the post, I'm going to take extra care with my wording. which seems to nurture the One Rule.

[dawei]

If, hypothetically, we could customize the code to avoid the various issues raised by the everyone-is-a-moderator solution, would that be better? Hypothetically, then would a particular option be more or less desirable?

 

I hear what is being said about post-approval leading to tension created by delays. On the other hand, I like how this approach would intrinsically deal with many of the problems I can think of. Delays, yes... but people will need to get over that. Perhaps their post won't be approved. If they simply wait in hope forever, that's on them - they need to let go and accept whatever happens. And again this is an internal process, not as likely to result in blame projected onto the OP as getting their posts deleted and being banned from a thread.

 

If I start to post in a thread, and I know the OP will need to approve the post, I'm going to take extra care with my wording. which seems to nurture the One Rule.

 

Custom Code is always better handling of specific/special situations... it just comes with a few implications:  Someone has to do it.. and someone has to handle upgrades without losing it.

 

Without custom code, there is more burden/responsibility by each to abide by the use of the permissions... and could create more staff work on some level.

 

There is something interesting to the OP unequivocally owning the thread... and requiring their approval before display seems like it takes care of most later hides and/or deletes... and like you said, maybe folks write more thoughtful...

 

But it is an interruption to the normal flow of members chatting.    So it really depends on, what is the ideal sought?

 

My personally feeling would be to not have approvals and let things flow; rely on people to embrace the ideals of the area. 

[Daeluin]

Yep, I've totally been in the shoes where customizations get in the way of upgrades. Delicate situation... but if the software is designed right, and/or the solution is implemented creatively, this can be minimized.

 

Approval idea came from the blogging analogy - if we're treating these more like blogs than discussions, that makes sense. But if we want the flow of discussion present, perhaps a different solution would work. Even with an approval based direction it makes sense for the OP to have mod power over the thread, or at least an option to block specific members from additional submissions, to prevent deliberate spam abuse.

 

Perhaps we can test out multiple solutions.

[dust]

From http://thedaobums.com/topic/37854-why-we-should-eat-puppies-a-controlled-forum-topic-experiment/

 

Note this is an experiment in allowing members to create topics then send them to a Personal Practice site so that they have total control and editing of the whole topic.

 

(...dustybeijing argues with topic...)

 

Well TheLerner...I think we can safely say that we all learned something in this thread: you can´t write about the virtues of puppy eating without stirring up quite a bit of contrary opinion.  Those who prefer beef, or decline to eat meat altogether (shudders), were free, of course, to start their own threads on the evils of chowing on Chihuahua but no...seems we just can´t help ourselves.

 

Again the purpose of this satiric thread is to test the concept of people who want to create a thread that they can have some control over, ie the discression to delete posts they feel are off topic.

 

 

I'd just like to point out that, though I am most certainly an argumentative bastard, my only intention by arguing in that particular thread was to play a role. I normally do not intrude on someone's PPD unless I find a topic interesting and agreeable.

 

The thing is, if you were to put this "doable anarchy" idea into practice, every so often there most definitely would be someone jumping in, arguing their socks off, and putting the page count up to 6 in a matter of days, leaving you with a bunch of posts to delete.

 

Nobody was doing this, and it didn't seem very realistic. It was an experiment after all, no?

 

I do hope that wasn't lost on people..

[Daeluin]

I've been reading up on the distinction between an anarch and an anarchist. Very interesting.

 

We are touching on a … distinction between anarch and anarchist; the relation to authority, to legislative power. The anarchist is their mortal enemy, while the anarch refuses to acknowledge them. He seeks neither to gain hold of them, nor to topple them, nor to alter them – their impact bypasses him. He must resign himself only to the whirlwinds they generate.

 

All in all, I get the idea an anarch simply follows the law of two feet. The anarch may utilize the rules of whatever presiding authoritarian system, but does not presume to rule over others.

 

The anarch, recognizing no government, but not indulging in paradisal dreams as the anarchist does, is, for that very reason, a neutral observer.

 

Opposition is collaboration.

 

Reminds me of a favorite saying, to oppose is to maintain. Simply the nature of polarity.

 

The anarch is no individualist, either. He wishes to present himself neither as a Great Man nor as a Free Spirit. His own measure is enough for him; freedom is not his goal; it is his property. He does not come on as foe or reformer: one can get along nicely with him in shacks or in palaces. Life is too short and too beautiful to sacrifice for ideas, although contamination is not always avoidable. But hats off to the martyrs.

 

We can expect as little from society as from the state. Salvation lies in the individual.

 

 

In all of this, an anarch is very daoist.

 

Just wanted to share, as I found this to be a stimulating idea.

[Daeluin]

Oooh, and found an article with this tasty addition:

 

Anarch (sanskrit Svarāṭ – sovereign, independent individual) is kind of a solitary hermit (Latin : erēmīta) in the field of thought and philosophy following line of knowledge and teachings (as such they could be connected or disconnected with one another) which he/she assembles or pieces together into a big puzzle or a map, in order to walk the path which ultimately leads to the original source. Person who is an Anarch or Svarāṭ knows that this material world is nothing but an illusion. As Dr. László András writes: ‘’Reality is an illusion, but a real illusion’’. In such world there is no need to delve into its affairs, as we are nothing but passengers waiting for the next train to arrive at the train station, in order to take us further to our destination.

 

Ernst Jünger writes: ‘’the difference between the anarchist and the Anarch also resides in the fact that the anarchist needs society, because he wants to improve it, which the Anarch does not seek to do.’’

[dawei]

All in all, I get the idea an anarch simply follows the law of two feet. The anarch may utilize the rules of whatever presiding authoritarian system, but does not presume to rule over others.

 

That Link does seem to be the essence of the idea:

 

Law of two feet

 

Owen explains his one "Law," called the "Law of two feet" or "the law of mobility", as follows:

If at any time during our time together you find yourself in any situation where you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet, go someplace else.

In this way, all participants are given both the right and the responsibility to maximize their own learning and contribution, which the Law assumes only they, themselves, can ultimately judge and control. When participants lose interest and get bored in a breakout session, or accomplish and share all that they can, the charge is to move on, the "polite" thing to do is going off to do something else. In practical terms, Owen explains, the Law of Two Feet says: "Don't waste time!"

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

so is this happening?  right before i drop off the face of the earth too, huh?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

way awesome...  just in time for my departure from the internet     heh....  maybe i'll get my PC online back at the house....   is a big what if though.