LDT method: hui yin <-> navel

[SonOfTheGods]

A few notes re: this method from my experience so far...

 

1. This is a very strong technique. And, though I was in my youth, I am not an extremist: steady sound gains, imo&e, come from consistent moderate progress, with attention to *harmony*. Accordingly, I suggest that you do this techinique only to moderate results in any single session - and that the amount of time that takes will vary a great deal from person to person. Don't be surprised if you do this for just a little while, and you feel like, "oh, that feels like plenty, but I've only practiced x minutes!". imo, don't push it. Also, this technique taps into something natural: it will keep working long after you've stopped practicing. If you feel you've had enough of this method for a while, take as many days off from it as you need to... you might be a person who does it every day, or you might take several days off or more. Listen to your body. This is deep stuff. Very effective. Foundational changes.

 

2. Do some sort of aerobic exercise (jogging, etc). It's possible, likely even, that this will prompt deep changes in your heaviest areas. Running, jogging, or other aerobic sports, is important for lots of blood circulation and tissue exercise so that your body can circulate, process from the heaviest out through all the layers. Just doing qigong alone is not balanced, over the long run (not saying you have to jog, etc, every day, but at least several times a week).

 

I've had lots of beneficial results with this. Various good changes to my body, and has been quite beneficial to my various other practices.

 

Have fun!

 

It's a simple enough technique to incorporate into WeiGong or into TaiChi, Bagua, Yi Jin Jing, Xi Sui Jing too

Edited July 4, 2015 by SonOfTheGods

[Trunk]

any insights into emptiness this practice will result?

I don't experience this technique as an emptiness technique.  Rather, I see it as integrating my deepest and heaviest physical.  (Typically - even notoriously - difficult to find methods really effective along that line, btw.)

 

Finding and sustaining focus on the still-point (aka, mysterious pass, aka zero point, aka deep-center) within the lower dan tien is key to integrating emptiness with the lower dan tien...  either simply that or there are various methods that are built on that key.  The results of such a LDT emptiness method could integrate with the results of this hui yin <-> navel method but, no, this is not an emptiness meditation in itself.

 

It's a simple enough technique to incorporate into WeiGong or into TaiChi, Bagua, Yi Jin Jing, Xi Sui Jing too

It's definitely improved my bagua. 

Edited July 5, 2015 by Trunk

[allinone]

i don't know actually what to say, since i do progress sometimes when i eat coffee or hit my head or meet an attractive person etc. But at the end there is a dead end that one part of the myriad stuff happening. And it feels totally not okay to post here because im offtopic but i was keeping you in my mind while expressing myself i guess it makes it even. Cya.

Edited July 4, 2015 by allinone

[astralc]

i don't know actually what to say, since i do progress sometimes when i eat coffee or hit my head or meet an attractive person etc. But at the end there is a dead end that one part of the myriad stuff happening. And it feels totally not okay to post here because im offtopic but i was keeping you in my mind while expressing myself i guess it makes it even. Cya.

 

As SonOfTheGods said, its no big deal, you practice it enough and you will get the benefits. Use it in your daily meditations, tai chi, etc. and you will start to feel a little better about life.

 

Good luck and maybe go and find a tai chi class to learn from a live teacher, that's usually a good place to start on the path to enlightenment.

[allinone]

As SonOfTheGods said, its no big deal, you practice it enough and you will get the benefits. Use it in your daily meditations, tai chi, etc. and you will start to feel a little better about life.

 

Good luck and maybe go and find a tai chi class to learn from a live teacher, that's usually a good place to start on the path to enlightenment.

 

Here is a challenge, physical movements versus thoughts. Both are on the same page but the difference in speed of changing qualities is big.

Thoughts pile up they transform into substance because there is so much of them and then substance will pile up into forms.

Empty mind is not empty. You can meditate on emptiness what is exact mirror of your own reality. At some point thoughts will run out of ideas, i see the subtle and do the thing.

 

So any extra practice i do is turning the dust up to already clear mirror. 

Read your message, i got pointed to a particular feeling in me. Lesson learnt thank you for that.

[MuadDib]

I had an experience during my practice the other night and I would like to share it. I suspected someone else on this forum might have pondered over this and a quick search confirmed it. This forum is really a treasure and I take the opportunity to thank everyone for making it so.

 

Some quick background... My current practice includes a single weekly session of modern hatha style yoga to stay flexible; a modest duration of zhan zhuang and horse stance every morning, a brief meditation session every day as well as regular gym workouts. I integrate MCO and meridian opening into some of the above exercises. Generally speaking, during meditation or at other times, I can feel the energy in the perineum, heart, third eye and solar plexus, the whole spine, sometimes intensely. However, it has been very rare for me to feel the LDT. Sometimes I feel it subtly after a yoga session during savasana, sometimes after I do abdominal exercises & fire breathing at the gym, but nothing intense, the feeling has been weak and subtle. It almost never happens during zhan zhuang which tells me that qi is not sinking.

 

Last night lying down, I decided to meditate briefly before going to sleep. My usual lying down meditation position is with the soles of the feet firmly pressed against each other, close to the perineum. After a few relaxing deep diaphragm breaths, I spontaneously tried something new. I breathed in through the perineum, sucking in (yin?) qi from the environment, up to the LDT through the thrusting channel. I released the breath inside the LDT (or the general area where it is supposed to be located). A few breath cycles like this, and very quickly I felt warmth from the inside like the Taoist texts described. I kept at the breathing and in no time warmth turned to hotness in the LDT. For the first time I experienced and understood what the Taoists meant when referring to the LDT as the "stove." The hotness suggested to me that yang qi was involved. I continued with this breathing, sucking in the energy through the perineum and going up the central channel, this time releasing the breath inside the solar plexus. The solar plexus became warm and then hot, just like the LDT. I did not go up to the heart, because from what I've read over the past year or so, this might not be a very good idea, perhaps dangerous - I do not have a master.

 

Just wanted to share the experience, it felt like progress, beautiful. I found this thread after a quick keyword search. I believe what others have described above is fairly similar to what I experienced. 

[astralc]

well done MaudDid, I think you just discovered something very special, now to consolidate your dan tien and keep doing. Good idea to stay away from your heart, that may not be ready just yet, allow your meditations to settle your electrical/nervous system into rhythm and you will find these chakras will begin to open while you sleep - safely.

[GreytoWhite]

So you're breathing from the perineum up to the dantian, then what you are supposed to do is reverse breathe and pull from lower dantian toward the mingmen - this will start your qi rising up the spine.

[Trunk]

Super important meditation, imhe.  There are different layers to develop, experience, from most physical to most subtle.  I tend to experience this meditation as very physical.  (Obviously the other results of deeply subtle and energetics, very cool, and I applaud.) ... The focus of attention (yi) goes from hui yin up the center to the level of the umbilicus and back down.  Repeat over and over.  For me, this triggers a physical pulsing between my navel ~ ming men (along the line that I figure the umbilicle cord was in the womb, and the kidneys pulse into ming men).  Similarly the genitals, urogenital diaphragm pulses with the sacrum.  Those two physical pairs, all pulsing.  Goes to deep physical, prenatal jing, could be I think?

 

 

There are some more detailed variations that I work with that have to do with either going more slowly, or emphasizing the luminous & empty quality of the pearl.  But the basic is just up & down, developing the center-line resonant connection between hui yin and umbilicus level.

 

As always, I appreciate hearing about varieties of methods & results, learning from/with each other.

 

cheers,

Trunk

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Trunk

[Desmonddf]

On 10/03/2015 at 1:26 PM, Trunk said:

(sushumna)

 

Sushuma isn't part of the meridian's energetic workings, and probably isn't located on the spine as many Western practioneers believe - most likely being in the literal middle of the body, that is, forming a straight line from your perineum to the center of your head.

 

The Du Mai and Ren Mai channels, those indeed, go through the spine and the front of the body - just how the chakras aren't based on the spine or in front of the body, but rather cut it vertically (meaning the center of your Ajna is actually in the center of your brain, not the center of your forehead).

 

That's a common misconception derived from Leadbeater's work on the chakras. Unfortunately, many yogi practices of today (even in India) use this as a basys for attaining the raising of Kundalini, and people end up thinking they have managed to attain it without even being able to achieve Samadi.

[Desmonddf]

On 16/08/2019 at 6:37 PM, MuadDib said:

I breathed in through the perineum, sucking in (yin?) qi from the environment

 

Air contains Qi which is called Xin Qi (air qi). Once you breathe correctly (all the way to your feet), you'll be able to increase the amount of Xin Qi into your Kidneys while they turn Gu Qi from the Stomach, Zong Qi from the Chest and Xin Qi from the lungs into Zheng Qi.

 

Still, Xin Qi is still quite Yang - as every form of Qi

 

On 16/08/2019 at 6:37 PM, MuadDib said:

up to the LDT through the thrusting channel

 

You're channeling unrefined Zheng Qi into your Governor Vessel. It shouldn't create much problem if you do it in moderate amounts, and can even be used to generate a small bright red Qi Pill in your LDT, which will then be usefull for your daily life (it will be consumed as the day goes by and avoid the common lacking of Zheng Qi the human body experiences due to our own lifestyle).

 

If you do it right, you'll see that benign animals will be attracted to you. Butterflies, birds, etc. If you do it wrong, poisonous and/or harming animals will (mosquitoes, wasps, ants, etc). The benign beings will be around and at ease near you, the poisonous ones will bite and poison you.

 

True story, I've done it a few times and it was very interesting, albeit disheartening as most of the times I was bitten and poisoned. Sad thing. 

 

Just don't do it too much. Your Du Mai wasn't made to receive unrefined Zheng Qi and it will be harmfull if you do it in too big amounts, increasing your Yang too much and messing with your Post-Heavenly Jing storage in the body.

 

On 16/08/2019 at 6:37 PM, MuadDib said:

I kept at the breathing and in no time warmth turned to hotness in the LDT

 

Carefull not to increase your Yang too much. If you feel the hotness to be confortable and warming, do use it. If you start to feel discomfort, stop it.

 

There are techniques to balance this kind of energy through this kind of practice, and dietary exercises as well. However, those are out of my league for the moment and therefore I cannot instruct you in them

 

On 16/08/2019 at 6:37 PM, MuadDib said:

The hotness suggested to me that yang qi was involved

 

Qi is Yang on itself. All of the warmt of the body comes from Qi - be it Ying Qi or Wei Qi. Qi with very Yang properties usually rises to the surface of the body, while Qi with less Yang (Yin) properties remain in the inside, warming and nourishing it.

 

Do not hold Qi which "desires" to leave the body inside, as this would be Wei Qi (derived from Zheng Qi's decomposition into Ying Qi and Wei Qi) or other forms of more Yang-Oriented Qi which cannot be held in - or will start to burn you from the inside.

 

On 16/08/2019 at 6:37 PM, MuadDib said:

The solar plexus became warm and then hot, just like the LDT

 

This will warm your Spleen and it is a very good practice as long as you don't use it to warm your Liver and Stomach. The specifics would be to warm only the laterals of your body, at Sp-21, Daobao. You can also release it at Sp-16, Fuai.

 

On 16/08/2019 at 6:37 PM, MuadDib said:

I did not go up to the heart, because from what I've read over the past year or so, this might not be a very good idea, perhaps dangerous

 

Good call. You need to refine the Qi further in order to relieve it of Wei Qi and reach a state of Ying Qi before nourishing the heart. The ideal pathway would be to have it refined inside your meridians and reaching a state of Post-Heaven Jing, and then use that to nourish the heart.

 

Using unrefined Zheng Qi or even Ying Qi (if you have heart blood's deficiency) to warm the heart might give you tachycardia and, further down the road, heart problems.

 

On 16/08/2019 at 11:27 PM, GreytoWhite said:

So you're breathing from the perineum up to the dantian, then what you are supposed to do is reverse breathe and pull from lower dantian toward the mingmen - this will start your qi rising up the spine.

 

It really depends on the practice. Both are valid, but have different needs and results depending on the person.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Desmonddf

[MuadDib]

Thank you for your reply @Desmonddf

 

Very interesting story with the animals.

 

It's been a few weeks since I had the first experience. Since then, I tried it again maybe 10 - 15 times, but I did not get the same intense sense of warmth and hotness. I believe in not forcing these things, so I do not try too hard to get a specific result. Didn't get any love from animals yet, no noticable bites from bugs either 

 

How do you determine if Qi is refined or not? If I'm doing the practice described above (perineum to LDT to solar plexus), what should be the pathway or method to refine the Qi? MCO? The 8 extraordinary meridians?

 

Answers beget questions...

 

 

[Desmonddf]

1 hour ago, MuadDib said:

How do you determine if Qi is refined or not? If I'm doing the practice described above (perineum to LDT to solar plexus), what should be the pathway or method to refine the Qi? MCO? The 8 extraordinary meridians?

 

Qi is refined through the macrocosmic circulation... AFTER going through all the veins and arteries in your body and being transformed by your organs and viscera.

 

Basically you'll need to refine the Qi by observing it while letting it accumulate naturaly. Many skip the veins and arteries part by going straight to the LDT and trying to find the almost-Post-Heaven-Jing there and then transform it. It does produce results, but those are lesser - since your attention on the Veins and Arteries part of the process concentrates and helps to refine the Ying Qi into Post-Heaven Jing.

 

I would recomend sticking to this practice for a while (breathing and producing the Red Qi Pill). Once you get a grab at what Semi-Post-Heaven-Jing is, you can then turn it into Yuan Qi and start nourishing your Heart and Shen. From there on you should focus on the Qi being produced on your LDT and start to observe its flow through your body.

 

In the end you'll need a full day of meditation to observe the whole process, and then move into other practices, but simply by doing the above you'll already have a good grasp not only on your own Qi but also on the Qi in the environment. You'll be able to manipulate it through Shen and that should give you a good amount of expertise - enough to find a master who can guide you through the rest of the process.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Desmonddf

[Spotless]

On 3/10/2015 at 9:26 AM, Trunk said:

 

Ren-1 hui yin is the spot half way between anus and genitals.  The opposite is Du-20 bai hui, which is at the top middle of the head.  Run a line straight between them and that's the central channel (sushumna), at least the section between those points (also goes above the head and below the torso).  Ren-8 shenque is the umbilicus, but we are talking about the point in the center, halfway between the umbilicus and Du-4 ming men. 

 

So, the exercise (as I've understood it and have been working with it, happily) is to work with a section of the central channel, from hui yin to the level of the umbilicus, back and forth.  As those polarities engage and integrate, triggers further integration. 

 

p.s.

Note that the most major physical landmarks of lower torso are on either side of those two center points:

- genitals and sacrum

- umbilicus and ming men (twixt the kidneys)

I’m not sure if this was corrected but the sushumna is not located in this particular central axis as mentioned.

 

The sushumna goes from the base of the spine up and could be said to be in the core of the spine.

 

The two are very very distinct and different. The central Axis is further forward and central as stated  -  perineum to (again a correction here) just slightly back from center top of head.

 

 

[MuadDib]

I've been meaning to report back to this thread for a while. 

 

A few months ago, I my perineum started to twitch involuntarily, it felt like muscle spasms, not painful but just a little annoying as it was involuntary. It went on for a day or two, on and off. Then it stopped.

 

A few weeks ago, a similar involuntary twitch/spasm developed in the LDT area. More specifically, right side of the lower abdomen. It went on and off for a little over two days. Then it stopped. I was beginning to consider seeing a doctor if it persisted. In case I had a parasitic worm or something inside my intestines. Thankfully I didn't have to.

 

Other than that, nothing interesting happened. I keep practicing regularly.

 

[Trunk]

Interesting that a senior brother strongly recommended Damo Mitchell's free online course on the microcosmic orbit and that this technique was one in a series of his presentation.

https://damomitchell.com/2020/03/23/microcosmic-orbit/

 

I look fwd to watching the series when I have the focus available for a serious pass through.

[Limahong]

21 hours ago, Trunk said:

I look fwd to watching the series...

 

Hi Trunk,

 

Look within yourself.

 

Watch your own self development/realization ~ experientially of yourself... by yourself... through yourself.

 

 

- Anand

 

[Limahong]

On 8/17/2019 at 5:37 AM, MuadDib said:

Some quick background...

 

Hi MuadDib,

 

Thank you for the succinct sharing ~ richly experiential.

 

On 8/17/2019 at 5:37 AM, MuadDib said:

Just wanted to share the experience, it felt like progress, beautiful.

 

 Yes ~ always work in progress... 'processual' and not 'destinational'.

 

 

- Anand

 

[MuadDib]

23 hours ago, Trunk said:

Interesting that a senior brother strongly recommended Damo Mitchell's free online course on the microcosmic orbit and that this technique was one in a series of his presentation.

https://damomitchell.com/2020/03/23/microcosmic-orbit/

 

I look fwd to watching the series when I have the focus available for a serious pass through.

 

I've gone through the videos recently. I found them to be very useful. I got convinced of the system's effectiveness after trying out the first few exercises. I

decided to adopt it as a practice until year end, depending on the rate of progress.

[Limahong]

22 hours ago, MuadDib said:

I've gone through the videos recently. I found them to be very useful.

 

Hi MuadDib,

 

Will an apple tree find it useful to follow an orange tree in bearing fruits? Are their root chakras synonymous?

 

(... The Taiji Pole?)

 

- Anand

 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Limahong
Correction

[Limahong]

On 3/10/2015 at 9:49 PM, Trunk said:

I'd like to extract & discuss this one part of method: developing the lower dan tien by repeatedly connecting hui yin up to the navel level (towards the center is how I interpret it), back and forth, fostering that connection, interaction.

 

Hi Trunk,

 

LDT method: hui yin <-> navel... linked to the first three chakras... starting with the root chakra... at the perinuem (hui yin)?

 

    

 

 

- Anand

[MuadDib]

3 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi MuadDib,

 

Will an apple tree find it useful to follow an orange tree in bearing fruits? Are their root chakras synonymous?

 

(... The Taiji Pole?)

 

- Anand

 

 

Very deep, sir 😏

[Limahong]

23 hours ago, MuadDib said:

Very deep... (I)

 

Just feel ~ without words. 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Limahong
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[Limahong]

On 7/23/2020 at 3:06 AM, MuadDib said:

Very deep... (II)

 

Hi MuadDib,

 

All that you are seeking are 'Dib' within yourself.

Try and integrate your mind and body as ONE ~ 

Search for yourself within yourself. If you don't know yourself ~ who will ever know you?

 

- Anand

 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Limahong
Correction

[Limahong]

On 7/23/2020 at 3:06 AM, MuadDib said:

Very deep... (III)

 

What does it mean when the first and sixth chakras are felt to have resonated in tandem... especially when it merely happened?

                                          

 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Limahong
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