Parallels between classical alchemy texts and Christian scriptures

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited August 8, 2016 by TheDustAutumn

[Taoist Texts]

I am looking for examples where christian texts(mostly interested in the scriptures about Jesus, both recognized and apocryphal and especially Gnostic and texts written by his disciples that might have still had direct transmission) that appear to be remarkably identical in meaning with Taoist and Buddhist texts on inner achievement.

My view is that all spiritual masters speak of the same thing and that Jesus was an enlightened person, a Buddha but his teaching were misunderstood and the lineage he tried to create died out. I have this theory that behind what is currently known there were secret teachings given only to his disciples and that transmission has been lost . I will post a few of those examples myself. I am also very interested to see what you guys think of this. 

 

this is a fun topic to discuss, but for the discussion to be truly productive i would suggest you first posit precise criteria of sameness or divergence, otherwise its gonna be apples and oranges.

[bamboo]

William Bodri has some good information on his site meditationexpert.com - have a look at at the articles in the "Religions and their non-denominational cultivation practices" section. There is definitely some Christian cultivation material and how it relates to other traditions.

[Jetsun]

The Cloud Of Unknowning is basically a non-dual text, also many of the Nag-Hammadi texts like the Gospel of Thomas and Gospel of Philip and many others. Thomas is probably a good place to start.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

You may as well at least consider the actual Hellenistic literature of Alchemy:

 

Zosimos

 

Mary the Prophet

 

Cleopatra the Alchemist

 

All of which is relatively early and has strong links to both early and Gnostic Christianity and to Apocryphal Judaic literature.  A neglected aspect of this is the influence of Greek Philosophy and early science also, even in the Gospels.  If I have time I will try to post more.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"I am looking for examples where christian texts(mostly interested in the scriptures about Jesus, both recognized and apocryphal and especially Gnostic and texts written by his disciples that might have still had direct transmission) that appear to be remarkably identical in meaning with Taoist and Buddhist texts on inner achievement."

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http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Buddha-The-Parallel-Sayings/dp/1569754616

 

and

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Jesus-Mysteries-Original-Pagan/dp/0609807986

 

Also I recommend check out the essay Jesus and Mithras, two sides of the same coin by Flavio Barbiero:

 

http://www.viewzone.com/mithras.html

 

These provide interesting background to this issue.

 

Actually, they may end this issue - I dunno.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited March 14, 2015 by vonkrankenhaus

[Daeluin]

I am looking for examples where christian texts(mostly interested in the scriptures about Jesus, both recognized and apocryphal and especially Gnostic and texts written by his disciples that might have still had direct transmission) that appear to be remarkably identical in meaning with Taoist and Buddhist texts on inner achievement.

 

Well probably not what your looking for, but in the same vein... in Quest del Saint Graal, which is described by the English translator P. M. Matarasso as a spiritual fable and is full of biblical references, there is a certain ship and sword that are described in very specific terms as spiritual metaphors...

 

'Good Sirs, said the maiden, 'in that ship yonder is the adventure to be found for which Our Lord has gathered you together; you must therefore leave this vessel and board the other.'

 

They expressed their readiness, and jumping ashore, they helped the maiden over the side; then they moored their boat lest the tide should carry it out to sea. Once they were all on the rocks they made their way in single file to where they saw the ship. On their approach they found it more magnificent by far than the one that they had left; but they were most amazed at seeing no soul on board. They drew nearer in the hope of making some discovery, and looking at the ship's side they saw an inscription written in Chaldean which bore a dire and alarming message to all intending to embark; and it ran thus:

 

GIVE EAR, O MAN WHO WOULDST SET FOOT IN ME: WHOSOEVER THOU ART, TAKE HEED THAT THOU BE FULL OF FAITH, FOR I AM FAITH ITSELF. THEREFORE LOOK TO IT, ERE THOU ENTEREST HERE, THAT THOU BE WITHOUT SPOT, FOR I AM NAUGHT BUT FAITH AND TRUE BELIEF, AND AT SOON AS THOU DOST LAPSE FROM FAITH, MYSELF SHALL CAST THEE DOWN IN SUCH A WAY THAT THOU SHALT FIND IN ME NOR HELP NOR FOOTING, BUT I SHALL FAIL THEE WHOLLY, WHERESOEVER THOU ART CONVICTED OF UNBELIEF, AND HOWEVER SLIGHT THE MEASURE OF THY DEFAULT.

 

To me this is a clear parallel to the mysterious pass. If one is unable to be fully centered within both their self and within the universe, the center cannot be kept too and the vessel will vanish.

 

Further, the golden elixir is inherently connected with the mysterious pass - in that one's energy must be refined to the point of creating the golden elixir in order to access the mysterious pass. This refining requires merging the dragon and the tiger, metal and wood, water and fire, within the context of earth, the yellow woman, and all of these things point to very specific levels of mastery in terms of skillful balancing.

 

So they board the vessel and in the cabin find a very particular bed with a crown at the head and a sword at the foot.

 

 

This sword was very curiously fashioned: for the pommel was formed of a stone combining all the colours found on earth; and, for another and greater singularity, each colour had it own specific virtue. The tale states furthermore that two ribs composed the hilt, and each of these was taken from a most unusual beast. The first belonged to a species of serpent more often found in Caledonia than elsewhere; this snake is called the papalust, and it has this special property, that if a man has hold of one of its ribs or any other bone of it, it renders him insensible to heat. The second came from a fish, which is no unduly big and which lives in the river Euphrates and no other. This fish is known as the ortenax, and its ribs have this peculiarity, that if any man takes one, for as long as he holds it in his hand he has no recollection of any joy or sorrow he has known, but only of the purpose for which he took it up. Directly he puts it down again he starts to think once more as he was wont, after the fashion of a normal man. Such were the attributes of the two ribs which were set in the sword hilt, and covered with the richest of red cloths, which in turn was embroidered all over with letters spelling this message:

 

I AM A MARVEL TO BEHOLD AND APPREHEND, FOR NONE WAS EVER ABLE TO GRIP ME, HOWEVER BIG HIS HAND, NOR EVER SHALL, SAVE ONE ALONE; AND HE SHALL PASS IN EXCELLENCE ALL WHO PRECEDED AND SHALL FOLLOW HIM.

 

 

The blade had an inscription as well:

 

 

LET NONE PRESUME TO DRAW ME FROM THE SCABBARD, UNLESS HE CAN OUTDO AND OUTDARE EVERY OTHER. HE WHO IN ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE UNSHEATHES ME SHOULD KNOW HE IS FOREDOOMED TO INJURY OR DEATH. THE TRUTH OF THIS REQUIRES NO FURTHER PROVING.

 

 

The belt was surprisingly flimsy, and the scabbard read:

 

 

HE WHO WEARS ME SHALL DO GREATER DEEDS THAN ANY OTHER AND NEED FEAR NO PERIL IF HE KEEP HIMSELF THE WHILE AS SPOTLESS AS HE OUGHT, FOR I MUST NOT ENTER ANY PLACE WHERE SIN OR VICE ARE FOUND. SHOULD I BE TAKEN INTO ANY SUCH THE WEARER SHALL BE THE FIRST TO RUE HIS ACT. BUT IF HE KEEP ME CLEANLY HE SHALL BE SAFE WHEREVER HE SHALL GO FOR NO BODILY HURT CAN COME TO HIM AT WHOSE SIDE I SHALL HANG, WHILE HE IS GIRDED WITH THE BELT THAT SHALL SUPPORT ME. LET NONE BE SO BOLD AS TO REMOVE THIS PRESENT BELT ON ANY GROUNDS: THIS IS NOT GRANTED ANY MANY NOW LIVING OR TO COME. IT MUST NOT BE UNFASTENED SAVE BY A WOMAN'S HAND, AND SHE THE DAUGHTER OF A KING AND QUEEN. SHE SHALL EXCHANGE IT FOR ANOTHER, FASHIONED FROM THAT THING ABOUT HER PERSON THAT IS MOST PRECIOUS TO HER, WHICH SHE SHALL PUT IN THIS ONE'S STEAD. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THIS MAIDEN BE THROUGHOUT HER LIFE A VIRGIN BOTH IN DEED AND IN DESIRE. AND IF IT HAPPEN THAT SHE LOSE HER MAIDENHOOD, SHE MAY BE SURE THAT SHE WILL DIE THE BASEST DEATH THAT CAN BE A WOMAN'S LOT. THIS MAID SHALL CALL THE SWORD BY ITS TRUE NAME, AND ME BY MINE, AND NEVER TILL THAT DAY SHALL THERE BE FOUND A MAN TO NAME US BY OUR PROPER NAMES.

 

The maiden present met all these requirements and had previously prepared a belt of her own hair, and after replacing the belt proclaimed the names as the sword of the strange belt and the scabbard memory of blood.

 

Again these appear as easy references for the mysterious pass and golden elixir. Not only is the hair and other material of the belt golden, standing for the center and balance, the emphasis of the sword's name is upon the belt that holds the sword to the body of the person, and the requirement of the belt was one of utmost purity.

 

The symbolisms used in daoism are many, and oft confusing. But really these symbols are fairly simple at heart once one realizes many of them mean the same thing under different conditions of transformation and expression in their every changing dance of interaction with each other. 

 

Here's a quote from section three of The Inner Teachings of Taoism:

 

 

 

 

On the True Opening of the Mysterious Female

 

If students want to practice the great Tao and comprehend [xing] and [ming], first they should find the opening of the mysterious female. The opening of the mysterious female is the opening of the mysterious pass.

 

This opening has a double door, opening and closing. It is nine feet high and five feet wide. Outside is a spiritual officer on sentry; inside are a dragon and tiger standing guard. The central hall is one room which extends in all directions; in it dwells a true human, with unkempt hair and bare feet, wearing a patchwork garment of five colors and a belt of yellow silk, holding a scepter of golden light, sitting peacefully on the chair of spontaneity, leaning back without casting a shadow on the wall, a crystal lamp hung in front, eyes half closed, immobile, at rest, not impulsively looking around, not speaking at random. To the right there is a golden boy, to the left a jade girl.

 

Sometimes the true human opens its eyes and light fills the universe, illumining even the dark regions of the netherworld. Sometimes the true human opens its mouth and energy fills the universe, putting all demons to flight. The true human holds the power of evolution, the mechanism of yin and yang, the talisman of life and death, the handle of [xing] and [ming].

 

However, there are few people in the world who are in genuine earnest. Most cannot put forth intensive effort or endure  long perseverance; also they do not seek out the fundamental true principles, but just think of the mysterious pass and mysterious female in terms of physical locations and do some minor techniques which are attached either to voidness of to form, falsely imagining that they will attain the Tao thereby. This is pitiful.

 

If one is a true stalwart, one can decisively set aside all entanglements, so that all objects are empty, and concentrate on the matter of most urgent  importance, call on true teachers, form associations with worthy companions, never changing one's determination; then one can eventually come to know the mysterious pass, see the mysterious female, and finally comprehend [xing] and [ming]. Students should work on this.

 

 

And from the Wuzhen Pian we have a verse On the Sword of Wisdom:

 

 

Ou-yeh personally transmitted a method for casting a sword; Mo-yeh, with metal and water, alloyed flexibility and strength. When the forging is complete, it cn read people's minds, a flash of lightning slaying demons for ten thousand miles.

 

A sword is something to protect the body; here is means the tool of wisdom to become enlightened and immortal, the means to become a sage. This is what is called the restored elixir; there is no "sword" other than the restored elixir. The "restored elixir" mens restoration of the original innate knowledge and innate capacity, the true consciousness in which strength and flexibility are combined. "Casting the sword" means casting this tool of wisdom of innate knowledge and capacity in which strength and flexibility are united. In terms of substance, it is called elixir; in terms of function it is called a sword. In reality the sword and elixir are one.

 

In ancient times there was a smith named Ou-yeh: as he was casting a sword, it repeatedly failed to turn out; his wife, Mo-yeh jumped into the forge, and the work was accomplished in one firing. People called it the precious sword of Mo-yeh; it was incomparably sharp. In practicing the Tao, casting the sword if first: taking energy with a proper balance of strength and flexibility, using water and fire to forge it into a masterpiece, it is called the sword of wisdom. Wearing it at one's side, using it at will, in a flash of lightning it cuts through demons for ten thousand miles.

 

The author uses Ou-yeh and Mo-yeh to symbolize the combination of strength and flexibility - indeed there is a subtle meaning int his. Practitioners of the Tao need to know strength and flexibility must both be properly balanced before it is possible to transmute the mundanity of acquired conditioning. If one yields when it is appropriate to be firm, or is adamant when it is appropriate to be flexible, or is strong but too aggressive, or flexible but too weak, this is not correct balance, and so the casting of the sword will not succeed. If the casting of the sword is unsuccessful, inwardly one has no mastery, and will get bogged down every step of the way - how can one complete the great Path then?

 

But the method of casting the sword is not easy to  know; the combination of strength and flexibility is most difficult to understand. If you do not meet a genuine teacher and get personal instruction, you will just be indulging in vain guesswork.

 

Here we again have emphasis on the female, receptive, flexible component being such an important requirement that in both our Grail and Neidan texts we have the direct portrayal of a female stepping in to do what a man cannot.

 

Both our Neidan sources here mention the power to slay demons.... in a flash it cuts through demons for ten thousand miles, and sometimes the true human opens its mouth and energy fills the universe, putting all demons to flight. Demon's, in my understanding are merely energy vortexs that are in some form of egoic pattern that is reluctant to trust and flow with the tao. Yet nothing can resist the flow of the tao for long, all things will live and die according to principles in operation within them. Anything at all may be considered demonic in this sense; all is relative. And this sword / our true human has the power to dissolve all disconnection from creation. Similar to notions of superior virtue and inferior virtue, perhaps the sword of our Quest which is found within something of utmost faith is wise to be cautiously used in terms of how the light of God/Dao might have a rather profound effect upon creation upon earth. Should it be misused it would instantly break in two - which adds up if one thinks of the mysterious pass as a place existing before polarity - should one misuse the power of the source one will find that polarity again rules and the source has been cut off.

 

In the footnotes our translator says:

 

 

57. The exact significance of this sword has puzzled scholars. Pauphilet probably lit on the truth in affirming that this must be the 'sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God'. St Paul compares the word of God on another occasion to a two-edged sword (Hebrews 4. 12), and we find the same image in Revelation I, 10 and in Psalm 149. 6. The author reveals later that the blade was taken from the sword of David, the greatest perhaps of the Old Testament figures of Christ. The fact that the hilt serves as a protection against heat may or may not be an allusion to the saving of Shardrach, Meshach and Abednego in the fiery furnace or it may be that the author has in mind God's promise to Israel: '... when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned: neither shall the flame kindle upon thee' (Isaiah 43, 2). Juridical ordeal by fire was in any case a common touchstone for truth in the Middle Ages. Perhaps more significant is the single-mindedness with which its wielder is instantly invested. Undoubtedly the spiritual symbolism has, as will shortly appear, been somewhat overlaid by surviving elements of Celtic myth which render interpretation at best tentative.

 

I don't care to read into any of it too heavily, but I've found the parallels obvious enough for my own tastes. This is how the dao works after all, with synchronicity. Nothing is coincidence.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Daeluin

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited August 8, 2016 by TheDustAutumn

[Daeluin]

Indeed. I wonder if Water Margin is too like this. So much to read.

[Daeluin]

The first telling of the Grail did not include Lancelot or Galahad, but it is hard to know when the biases of time will influence lesser or greater poignancy...

[Rara]

My view is that all spiritual masters speak of the same thing and that Jesus was an enlightened person, a Buddha but his teaching were misunderstood and the lineage he tried to create died out. I have this theory that behind what is currently known there were secret teachings given only to his disciples and that transmission has been lost.

 

Funny, I've been pondering this about all sorts of things. Religion is one, Wing Chun also...two big examples that I have had a lot of experience with. Of course, the examples are endless.

 

A teacher will pass things down directly to everyone BUT the keenest of students put enough work in to fully understand what is being taught.

 

How many in any classroom come over as "keen"? A very small percentage.

 

Someone that doesn't put the correct amount of time into their study or practice will never be able to learn everything there is to know...it's mathematically impossible!

 

These people build on their own half-baked understanding. Of course, these are also wanting to teach so end up selling a lot of misunderstood teachings.

 

Who's gonna stop em eh?

[Daeluin]

A teacher will pass things down directly to everyone BUT the keenest of students put enough work in to fully understand what is being taught.

 

How many in any classroom come over as "keen"? A very small percentage.

 

Sometimes just one in a lifetime.

 

The grandmasters who taught Wang Liping didn't open a school, they traveled the country until they found the one who had the proper potential to receive what they had to offer.

[4bsolute]

To be honest I would not rely on any text these days. Correction: It has essentially no meaning what information you intake, if your consicousness is not close or at the source of all that is. the point is not the information, the point is how expansive your consciousness is.

You can say this is the main reason of misunderstanding. Not what information you take in, but how many "dots" you can connect to perceive the biggest picture. Our so called "informational age" is one big chaos.

 

Regardless of what information you currently seek, you will only understand a fragment. And that means you will not undertand it.

 

It has been written many times that the further we are away from our center, we hear/see (etc) not correctly. For you it will sound normal, but you will make many many mistakes on the way. You will have doubts, there will be discussions etc. This is all not there anymore the closer you are.

Reconnect to your Primordial Intelligence, which is connected to all Intelligence in Existance. By doing so you will get answers directly without having countless middlemans (human history).

 

And if you still want to read, with this intelligence you can read kindergarten-books and understand alchemical principles "hidden" in there. You will look at hieroglyphs and understand them in an instant. Because at "the point in time" where they were written you have been "there" aswell. And this is no joke, this is real. Increase this impersonal awareness (your consciousness) and through whatever you look at, you see fundamental connections of Life. Without a doubt, pure and direct.

 

Why do I put this into " bla " ? Especially the stuff with "time"? Because consciousness is timeless. So you can access information at any given "point".

The more you can bend your personal mind to be in all things (just assume it for the beginning) as consciousness, the sooner you will tap more into all that is and understand everything. No more books, no more internet, and esp no more teachers needed.

 

So far for theory, now for practice.

 

Source: Coming from my own life experience in approaching Life by consuming loads of information, making so many mistakes, confusing my self to a point of sheer hopelessness that literally Everthiny is possible (digesting acid and being healthy, etc and seeing that ecologically grown food is poision as contrast - mind is everything) and then dropping this attitude and actually increasing my consciousness (the container for said information) and therefor purifying my being to the best possible. Result, understanding things I have not even asked for. Being able to explain people things I have not even prepared for.

 

"Man this guy is cool, I want to be able to do that too!" Yeah sure, that guy is you / I am you.

Edited March 19, 2015 by 4bsolute

[Daeluin]

Well said.

 

On the whole, understanding is a process of expanding opening to allow greater connection. A process. The fixed-knowledge based approach can be helpful to some, but only if they are using it as an approach to freedom rather than to build a wall out of.

 

On one hand we are encouraged to share understanding, to protect it from being controlled.

On the other hand we are encouraged to hide secrets from those who would not use them out of a connection to tao.

 

Too, some things require certain tuning of one's momentum that might take lifetimes to achieve, before they can be understood... which is all guided by destiny. So really people should focus on resolving their destiny, which will always lead them toward finer tuning, without needing to comparing their destiny to another's, or what they can understand vs what another can understand, which will only lead to contention over interpretation of truth, leading to new layers being created. To really get to the truth requires dissolving those layers, or transcending the trap of right vs wrong, i.e. the metal phase, i.e. the phase of the completion and return of the circle to its origin.

 

It is easy to see how profound sharings can leave a deep imprint upon humanity, and how people yearn to attach to the origins of these changes by looking to the knowledge left behind for understanding. But attempted understanding of knowledge without connection will just lead one to re-interpret the parts one does not understand, and thus layers and layers will cover up the root, as per usual.

 

Which is why I find more depth of truth in studying knowledge in classics rather than modern explanations. Sometimes the classics won't make any sense to me, but if I place my heart there and wait for connection to be made, as time unfolds clarity will come.

[MooNiNite]

edited

Edited March 24, 2015 by MooNiNite