[Tantra] Redirecting / holding back Semen when orgasm, a seemingly difficult task?

[4bsolute]

Not feeling cravings to have sex often, can be done. With ease when having a spiritual goal in mind. It flows effortlessly.

 

Now adding the idea of wanting to have sex, but experiencing only healing orgasm with a partner and not using sex for reproduction. Spraying your load vs using this as a tool for spiritual growth for both, changes how things work in the body. Naturally.

 

Naturally, the body mechanics are getting reprogrammed or altered.

 

So far the theory, but now for the application: Tightening all the suggested muscles/muscles groups seems to be somewhat impossible, especially the gland of the penis, since the orgasm itself is such a strong energy. It feels like it wants to "climb" or flow out of the penis, instead of up the spine / body.

 

This being said that when not having sex and cultivating in this way, after around 1month the sensitivity is so great, that only pulling back of the foreskin and holding it there so it creates tension with where the tissue is connected to the gland penis is enough to cause ejaculation. Same as with watching stimulating pictures, ejaculation happens literally by itself (without physical stimulation) when not controlled by ones own mind.

 

By oneself this is managable and I believe to be possible. But how to, exactly?

 

The stimulation is even greater with a partner, so thus more difficult if not mastered by oneself, with oneself, first.

Edited March 20, 2015 by 4bsolute

[Songtsan]

I have done it a few times by clenching PC muscles and not moving AT ALL, and focusing on crown or third eye chakra and breathing energy upwards. Then you experience a orgasm and the ejaculation doesn't occur. However, it seems that the fluid is still released from the epididymis and the prostate still releases fluid in preparation for ejaculation. This must then be returned or reverse ejaculated....never figured that out...

 

So was able to keep erection and keep on going and had a nice little orgasm each time this happened, but the fluids were still essentially released.

 

If one withdraws the semen up into the stomach, I can't see how that will be useful vs. regular ejaculation.  It doesn't seem like you can go back either to the epididymis, and you wouldn't want to try to reabsorb fluid into the prostate. Where should it go?

 

Orgasm is overrated anyways.

 

Sex for hours without coming and keeping the libido high is not overrated. It's a worthwhile endeavor.

[phore]

In my experience this process starts with an awareness of the orgasmic/ kundalini energy.  When sexual stimulation is occurring Kundalini energy is being collected in the perineum and general area.  This can be felt by anyone.  It is the feeling of being sexually stimulated. 

 

This energy can also be collected in other areas, such as anus, nipples, or pretty much anywhere you can stimulate that can become sexually aroused. 

 

After a sufficient amount of stimulation this energy overloads the circuits/nerves in the genital area causing contractions and forced expulsion of the Kundalini charged electrolyte rich seminal fluid.  

 

The key to experiencing a kundalini rising/trantic orgasm/ valley orgasm is to build up enough energy in the genetal area to feel stimulated but not enough to trigger the genital orgasm. 

 

Once you have got enough energy to be able to feel, any movement of this energy is going to feel orgasmic.  The feeling of orgasm in the genitals is caused by the orgasmic energy flowing outwards.  The orgasmic feeling in kundalini is the same energy moving up the spinal nerves and into the brain. 

 

So now that we have gathered the energy we need an effective means of directing it.  There are several techniques we can use. 

1.  Direct the energy with the hands.  When the orgasmic energy is gathered, lightly brush the hands up the front of the torso, down the legs. up the sides of the torso, or up the back.   The idea is like spreading the energy away from the genitals.  The physical brushing opens the nerves and allows the energy a path to flow away from the genitals.  The intention here should be to pull the energy.  Once the concentrated energy in the genitals finds a nerve outlet it will shoot into the nerves like a live-wire. 

This may also be practiced by using the auric field radiating several inches from the palms and fingers.  By sing this the energy may be guided by just moving the hands ovet the desired pathway and feeling the orgasmic energy following the hands energy.  As the orgasmic energy is a energy that wants ro move towards something, the hands should have a pulling/ magnetic energy. 

By using the saura of the hands a person can easily access the channels inside of the spine even when laying down on the back. 

You can use both the physical brushing and the auric brushing at the same time.  

2.  Direct the energy with sound.  The resonance of certain sounds such as mantras, or any resonating sound can diffuse the concentrated energy into the rest of the body and aura.  This is basically the theory behind Key Sound Multiple Orgasm Techniques by Jack Johnson, as well as Mantra Yoga.  The sound creates a spreading field of waves which pick up the orgasmic energy and carry it throughout the spread.  By using the intent the energy can be directed once it is picked up by the sound. 

3.  Using the perineum as a pump.  By clenching and relaxing the perineum the energy can be "pumped" into the spine.  This works best when combined with other techniques.    This also has the added benefit of conferring an amount of conscious control over the perineum muscles, and may prevent the spastic activity that causes ejaculation.

4.  The orgasmic energy can be guided by intent.  This is the basis of techniques like the microcosmic orbit, and the grand circulation, as well as focusing on specific points, such as the third eye.  This technique is the most difficult to master but the most direct and rewarding.  It is best when combined with the other techniques here, especially at first. 

5.  Rocking the hips seems to both concentrate the energy in the genitals and open the torso and spinal channels to provide a open circuit for the energy. 

 

I use all of these techniques in an given session.  At first when learning to direct the energy it may be helpful to stop significantly short of the point of a genital orgasm, but with practice and opening the channels with kundalini energy, you can get much closer before needing to redistribute the energy. 

 

The benefit of using these techniques is that you can raise kundalini as long as you can become turned on.  It doesn't require extensive periods of sperm retention to accidentally trigger the experience.  It does require some willpower to not ejaculate.  With these techniques sperm retention is much easier.  It may require daily practice of Kundalini rising/ tantric orgasm to achieve.

 

The purpose of sperm retention is to build up the potential to gather and channel this energy, as well as to prevent the waste of vital substances through ejaculation, and refractory periods where the body is investing large quantities of vitality into the process of rebuilding sperm count and prostate fluids.  As long as the fluid is reabsorbed into the body there is no vitality loss, there is just vitality redistribution.

 

Love and Lgiht

Tony

[Ish]

-

Edited July 26, 2016 by Ish

[phore]

Once the energy has been transformed into fluids by ones desires, i think it is no long of use for transmutation. It would be a mistake to try and force ones semen back in the body.

 

So what you can transmute is the lower energy the body is naturally generating, and reduce your desires so it's not wasted.

This is of course the viewpoint of Taoist yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.  Glenn Morris, and Mantak Chia seem to disagree.

[Ish]

- 

Edited July 26, 2016 by Ish

[voidisyinyang]

I'm a few days short of 3 months no ejaculation.

 

You want to study the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality for the detailed psycho-physiology of how to deal with this problem.

 

Yes you have to empty out the mind of "evil thoughts."

 

But "Quick Fire" breathing is the main technique.

 

How to induce deep fast reverse breathing?

 

Stand in horse stance with thighs parallel to the ground.

 

It doesn't take long in that position.

 

The idea is to push your sympathetic nervous system to its extreme and then an opposite extreme parasympathetic vibration will be induced with upward sublimation.

 

So any kind of physical stimulation is wrong.

 

Also - sit in full lotus for 2 hours to purify the energy - again deep bone pressure after legs go numb then sympathetic has gone to extreme and rebounds to opposite of parasympathetic extreme.

 

Again study the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.

 

But essentially when your energy goes away from your lower tan tien it turns back into fluid.

 

So I do horse stance several times a night usually - as this will reverse the damage.

 

If you try rely on your mind that is not enough on its own.

 

But the mind Emptiness also is required - so there is no evil thoughts.

 

For that you can flex your pineal gland - kind of just a magnetic pressure in the middle of your brain - focus on that and empty out your thoughts. Otherwise a mantra to concentrate your mind into "immutable thought."

 

I do horse stance during the day also - again to reverse any damage - based on evil thoughts or similar influences.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

Oh last year I went 6 months no ejaculation but then I went under strong attack to suck me off - and I didn't know the horse stance technique for sublimation and purification. So then all the qi energy was deconverted back into fluid and yes it is a LOT of fluid.

 

So the misconception that you can lose the fluid without losing energy is total b.s. - it's just a Western cop-out to not deal with the truth of real energy training.

[C T]

Bliss in its pure form can be generated without even the slightest notion of any sexual feelings or thoughts. Those who clamour for this bliss will mostly try all sorts of lower methods to attain it but will have a difficult time to master the method because the focus is not placed correctly. Its like hoping to arrow an apple by simply aiming in the general direction of an apple tree. Maybe the tree dont even have apples, or the apples are not yet ripe, or they could be of inferior grade, or may not even be an apple tree at all. 

 

The only way to reach pure bliss, or bliss without any negative karmic kickback, is to imbue the mind with altruistic thoughts and intentions, and once this has been stabilised, to act on these intentions. Doing this for a (long) period of time bliss will arise naturally and suffuse the whole being with a quality that is a mixture of light and colours. At first this needs some form of mental activity to bring about, but will become habitual and reflexive in time, depending on motivation and discipline. At that point, you can experience orgasmic-like sensations without even the slightest hint of base sexual desires (for eg, no sign of any stirring in the genital area need to occur). 

[phore]

. At first this needs some form of mental activity to bring about, but will become habitual and reflexive in time, depending on motivation and discipline. At that point, you can experience orgasmic-like sensations without even the slightest hint of base sexual desires (for eg, no sign of any stirring in the genital area need to occur). 

Strangely enough, the sexual techniques i listed above bring about the same Reflexive Kundalini/ orgasmic rising phenomenon. 

Once you get the feel of the energy you can simple build the energy in the microcosmic orbit/macrocosmic or any of the chakras to then activate the kundalini/valley orgasm/bliss from that concentration.  At this stage you need not produce the seminal fluid or arouse the genitals, or have any sexual thoughts.  The same techniques For working with the sexual energy (mantra, guiding the Kundalini with the hands, rocking the hips, anc pumping the perenium, and guiding the energy with intent) also work at this stage as well.

 

I suppose that that was the intended purpose of these techniques anyways,

 

Love and Lgiht

Tony

[C T]

Strangely enough, the sexual techniques i listed above bring about the same Reflexive Kundalini/ orgasmic rising phenomenon. 

Once you get the feel of the energy you can simple build the energy in the microcosmic orbit/macrocosmic or any of the chakras to then activate the kundalini/valley orgasm/bliss from that concentration.  At this stage you need not produce the seminal fluid or arouse the genitals, or have any sexual thoughts.  The same techniques For working with the sexual energy (mantra, guiding the Kundalini with the hands, rocking the hips, anc pumping the perenium, and guiding the energy with intent) also work at this stage as well.

 

I suppose that that was the intended purpose of these techniques anyways,

 

Love and Lgiht

Tony

I remember a conversation between a fellow student and my teacher some years ago that was related to this subject. The student enquired about the most ideal practice (implying he wanted to know the fastest way to enlightenment  ) for raising energy to the crown with the least obstacles... he was informed that for the those who are physically able, the general rule is 5 million prostrations for the state to become permanent, supplemented by other practices as directed. I think he was a little disappointed with that answer haha! Perhaps he was expecting a more elaborate map, thats human nature i guess. After the chap left i followed up on the exchange, and teacher told me that inner transformation can be felt and seen usually after the first 500,000 rounds of preliminaries (ngondro). I think he was right. Its not really complicated at all. 

[ralis]

I'm a few days short of 3 months no ejaculation.

 

You want to study the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality for the detailed psycho-physiology of how to deal with this problem.

 

Yes you have to empty out the mind of "evil thoughts."

 

But "Quick Fire" breathing is the main technique.

 

How to induce deep fast reverse breathing?

 

Stand in horse stance with thighs parallel to the ground.

 

It doesn't take long in that position.

 

The idea is to push your sympathetic nervous system to its extreme and then an opposite extreme parasympathetic vibration will be induced with upward sublimation.

 

So any kind of physical stimulation is wrong.

 

Also - sit in full lotus for 2 hours to purify the energy - again deep bone pressure after legs go numb then sympathetic has gone to extreme and rebounds to opposite of parasympathetic extreme.

 

Again study the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.

 

But essentially when your energy goes away from your lower tan tien it turns back into fluid.

 

So I do horse stance several times a night usually - as this will reverse the damage.

 

If you try rely on your mind that is not enough on its own.

 

But the mind Emptiness also is required - so there is no evil thoughts.

 

For that you can flex your pineal gland - kind of just a magnetic pressure in the middle of your brain - focus on that and empty out your thoughts. Otherwise a mantra to concentrate your mind into "immutable thought."

 

I do horse stance during the day also - again to reverse any damage - based on evil thoughts or similar influences.

 

Would you please explain what categorizes evil thoughts? 

[voidisyinyang]

O.K. you can have internal orgasms without ejaculation - that is tantra.

 

But to develop real yang qi then only Emptiness meditation has to be relied on which is celibacy of the mind along with the body.

 

Any thoughts about reproduction cause the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality - the pineal gland - to, at the speed of light, shoot qi down the spine to convert the "sea of vitality" below the lower tan tien into making fluid.

 

So only by Emptiness focus does the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality then, instead of going down the spine, go forward as the small universe cycle - to increase the spirit light of the heart as shen-qi energy or yang qi, and then because of the Emptiness focus this energy ionizes or purifies the yin qi and yin jing energy to store as the Cavity of Vitality as the lower tan tien.

 

So without Emptiness focus there is no lower tan tien created.

 

Taoist Yoga says that the eyes "twinkle" at forms of love and so this is before there are even "evil thoughts."

 

Which means your subconscious thoughts as right-brain vision information also have to purified or else when you sleep at night your spirit descends down to the lower tan tien and then also converts it back into fluid.

 

So then the horse stance as quick fire breathing by sublimation also causes purification because you Empty out the mind by taking your sympathetic nervous system to the extreme.

 

What ejaculation is - first lust desire causes increase in dopamine as parasympathetic nervous system but for males then it builds into a trigger at ejaculation - which switches the body to sympathetic nervous system.

 

So the qigong training is the opposite - you push the sympathetic nervous system to its extreme but then through celibacy and reverse breathing and primarily the resonance of complementary opposite energy channels - upper and lower body, left and right hand - and left and right eyes, left and right feet - crossed, etc. - and so then you intensify that cycle of parasympathetic energy.

 

So then purification is when the left side vagus nerve is activated - it is the ancient reptilian vagus nerve that controls the heart and so that increases the oxytocin levels and is a deeper parasympathetic activation.  At first the right side vagus nerve is sublimating up energy from the lower body which then increases the power of the cavity of prenatal vitality since then the pineal gland pressure ionizes the hormones into increase qi energy.

 

When you see light internally then you know you have being to purify the energy as that means the increases prenatal vitality qi has also increased the spirit shen energy of the heart that manifests out of the eyes.

 

So when the eyes twinkle at forms of love that is the yin qi or "heart's fire" shooting out of the eyes and since it then creates evil thoughts - what that means it triggers the pineal gland to shoot down the yuan qi to create more fluid. So that reverse small universe has to be counter-acted through the quick fire breathing.

 

This causes retraction of the reproductive organ and ideally no fluid is created in the first place. But then as Taoist Yoga says - when the yin goes to its extreme at midnight this causes yang to manifest as the yuan qi energy and so then you sublimate again and do the small universe - and again the key has to be Emptiness focus.

 

So before that is possible you sublimate in the morning and purify in the evening. And then Emptiness at midnight.

 

I was reading up on traditional ayahuasca shaman training and a documentary said - Women UNSEEN for one year at least but ideally 3 years - isolated in the amazon jungle. Brahmin priests say the same thing - even eye contact with females requires a 3 day purification ritual.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

The other issue is reverse ejaculation and I did have this happen a couple times - so I'm not sure how much I lost - I don't think that much.

 

But the thing is that even if you have to go to the bathroom - make sure you do horse stance with thighs parallel to ground before you urinate - if you have had any kind of reproductive activity.

 

Like if you have pulsations, etc. at night then make sure you do horse stance - or else you won't get proper sublimation and you'll get reverse ejaculation.

 

So then the urine will not be foamy or when the foam dissipates - there won't be any semen bits in there.

 

I have seen other males leave piss behind that had this problem - so I know it is common that males who are controlled by their lust are losing semen through urine that way.

 

So it only should take a few minutes of steep horse stance with thighs parallel to ground - or until the legs start shaking indicating extreme sympathetic nervous system and the pressure of the bones - with knees bent like that it is similar to a pulley so that you can double your force build up leverage quickly.

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

The only way to reach pure bliss, or bliss without any negative karmic kickback, is to imbue the mind with altruistic thoughts and intentions, and once this has been stabilised, to act on these intentions. Doing this for a (long) period of time bliss will arise naturally and suffuse the whole being with a quality that is a mixture of light and colours. At first this needs some form of mental activity to bring about, but will become habitual and reflexive in time, depending on motivation and discipline. At that point, you can experience orgasmic-like sensations without even the slightest hint of base sexual desires (for eg, no sign of any stirring in the genital area need to occur). 

 

Do you think that it is possible, after a good training on this, to bring the state into the practice of sexual union and learn to avoid ejaculation by transferring sexual energy into the bliss of altruistic intention?

 

How long does it take to reach that stage?

[C T]

Do you think that it is possible, after a good training on this, to bring the state into the practice of sexual union and learn to avoid ejaculation by transferring sexual energy into the bliss of altruistic intention?

 

How long does it take to reach that stage?

Yes, that is the way the Buddhist yogis who practice with a Dakini partner do it. How did you know?? 

 

The length of time needed would of course vary, and largely dependent on the partnership and also the karmic disposition of each partner involved. Many Dzogchenpas who walk this path find inspiration from the teachings of Padmasambhava to Yeshe Tsogyal, the Dakini Queen. 

 

What Is The Special Wisdom Of Yeshe Tsogyal And The Female Buddhas?  

 

Their special wisdom is Prajna—Transcendent Wisdom or Sublime Knowledge of the Ultimate. Prajna is the realization of the basis of everything which is in turn is called shunyata—great emptiness or infinite openness. When this basis of everything is fully perceived and realized, the wisdom is called Prajna.

 

Prajna is likened to the feminine because great emptiness or infinite openness is the source or mother of everything, tangible and intangible. Also, whatever arises from feminine-like emptiness is likened to the masculine and is called Upaya or Skillful Means. Prajna cannot be pursued or realized in isolation. She is attainable only in relation to Upaya. And similarly, Upaya without Prajna, simply becomes the basis for experiencing the world of dualism. For enlightenment, their unity is essential. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by C T

[Cheshire Cat]

Yes, that is the way the Buddhist yogis who practice with a Dakini partner do it. How did you know?? 

 

Well... you wrote the secret by yourself.

[voidisyinyang]

physical tantra is inherently limited to "emptying out the realm of desire and emptying out the lower realm of form" as detailed by Mahayana Buddhist master Nan, Huai-chin and Bill Bodri.

 

I know this from experience - after about 50 mutual climaxes - internal sublimation orgasms - then yes the lust is gone and it is replaced by an opening of the heart as a electromagnetic interwoven bliss love energy. But this is just the beginning of the yang qi energy - or the beginning of emptying out the realm of form.

 

If you were to take it deeper it would require the female going into the formless realm with you - a deeper mutual practice - and the female would have to become a dakini in real form. For example Milarepa says when he was in samadhi he was fed energetically by the dakinis - and this makes sense since Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality book describes how the light form of mara as the final evil thought temptations needs to be sucked into the body and transformed into yang energy. And so it would seem it is the transformation of yin shen energy into yang qi energy with the final step being the explosion of the physical body of the yogi into pure yang qi energy that is boundless into the universe and can then reform into a yang shen physical being, when necessary, in multiple locations if need be.

 

http://www.meditationexpert.com/meditation-techniques/m_sexual_tantra.html

 

This is their article about tantra - from Bill Bodri based on Master Nan, Huai-chin's teachings.

[Cheshire Cat]

physical tantra is inherently limited to "emptying out the realm of desire and emptying out the lower realm of form" as detailed by Mahayana Buddhist master Nan, Huai-chin and Bill Bodri.

 

I know this from experience - after about 50 mutual climaxes - internal sublimation orgasms - then yes the lust is gone and it is replaced by an opening of the heart as a electromagnetic interwoven bliss love energy. But this is just the beginning of the yang qi energy - or the beginning of emptying out the realm of form.

 

This is described in the visuddhimagga as the passage from pīti (joy, rapture) to sukha (happiness) which is fine.

But the point of sexual union is to make pīti extremely strong so that it can transform the body and stabilize sukha to a supramundane state, imho : when lust is gone there are two explanations (Buddhahood or internal leakage).

[4bsolute]

and you wouldn't want to try to reabsorb fluid into the prostate.

 

Why wouldn't "I" want that?

 

 

Orgasm is overrated anyways.

 

Orgasm is the very energy with what you create with, in all levels of your existance. This energy feels different in each "chakra" and provides a different and unique experience in each layer. I would contemplate about the statement you have just made.

Edited March 17, 2015 by 4bsolute

[4bsolute]

In my experience this process starts with an awareness of the orgasmic/ kundalini energy.  When sexual stimulation is occurring Kundalini energy is being collected in the perineum and general area.  This can be felt by anyone.  It is the feeling of being sexually stimulated. 

 

This energy can also be collected in other areas, such as anus, nipples, or pretty much anywhere you can stimulate that can become sexually aroused. 

 

After a sufficient amount of stimulation this energy overloads the circuits/nerves in the genital area causing contractions and forced expulsion of the Kundalini charged electrolyte rich seminal fluid.

 

This is exactly it, Tony. I have experienced the rising of this energy above my sexual region. And it felt like I couldnt hold it there. It was in my stomach. It felt very "new" and very, very, very tingly.

 

The main issue I currently have is how I can remove the sensations of my genitals into another area. I know when to stop. But even when only having my mind (!!) in that region, triggers an overload. The smallest touch, even just the pants going over that location, is enough to cause it. But this was never an orgasm, this was a very aroused energy.

 

I suggest more practice and "figuring out a way". The thing with this practice is just that it can reeeally take time (or not, depends on individuals capacity of paying attention to what goes on) because of the usual recovery of the orgasm and what else you have in mind which requires "spiritual energy" which is pretty much every of higher evolution.

 

In my experience you can also "copy" the sensation you have in a certain region of your body "e.g orgasmis feeling, prior to orgasm" into your brain. We dont have to be linearly with this, I believe it works non-linear without having to be in a certain "set of locations, one after the other to reach an end".

 

And yes I have also experiment with digesting my own semen again. It truly can be felt and experienced as a full course meal as how it saturates and boosts energy. But I am not completely sure about the re-absorption.

 

Many thanks.

 

Once the energy has been transformed into fluids by ones desires, i think it is no long of use for transmutation. It would be a mistake to try and force ones semen back in the body.

 

So what you can transmute is the lower energy the body is naturally generating, and reduce your desires so it's not wasted.

 

Yes but this goes prior to everything we then want to do and requires preparation. I see it if we do let things untouched, the energy is used for child-creation. And only after a certain bio-rhythm / period of I believe 3 or 6 months? It will be "registered" as not used and things change by themselves. But I believe this can be altered (surely) with intent of wanting to know one's true Self with this practice. Like in all creation you need a proper reason to do something or it barely or never works. It works like a proper foundation where I then get the feedback of "Okay just give me anything" and then "Okay I/we can work with that, lets start"

Edited March 17, 2015 by 4bsolute

[4bsolute]

This is of course the viewpoint of Taoist yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.  Glenn Morris, and Mantak Chia seem to disagree.

 

I am also not a fan of forcing. I have had so many convincing moments due to meditation and a "higher" spiritual lifestyle with how less force I got soo much in return I wouldve otherwise never gotten a fragment of using greater force.

 

And a friend of mine cycles his energy by completely letting go into his female partner, without ejaculation, full orgasm in all parts. This truly is mastery.

 

Of course there is no more fear of ejaculating because the nature of the mind (and it's regulating powers etc) is then understood.

[the1gza]

 

I am also not a fan of forcing. I have had so many convincing moments due to meditation and a "higher" spiritual lifestyle with how less force I got soo much in return I wouldve otherwise never gotten a fragment of using greater force.

 

And a friend of mine cycles his energy by completely letting go into his female partner, without ejaculation, full orgasm in all parts. This truly is mastery.

 

Of course there is no more fear of ejaculating because the nature of the mind (and it's regulating powers etc) is then understood.

I would have to agree with this to pretty much everything you have said on the topic. I would say that, if there is some forcing, it might be a technique that is done prior to sexual stimulation. However, the energy movement itself... I have found it to be far more capable of doing it's own thing perfectly rather than trying to direct it.

 

I'm not working on the sexual arousal part, although I would perhaps say that the better way of describing it is that I am not instigating sexual arousal. I've only been retaining for about 8 days, practicing the Deer, Crane and Turtle from Stephen Chang's Internal Exercise Manual. Now I have been doing these techniques since November almost everyday, but in retaining they are pretty much on a different level. While the energy is pretty relegated to heat and tingling while doing the exercises, The true magic happens when I lie down for a nap or nightly sleep.

 

The structural and mental healing that has transpired over the past week has been ridiculous, but the craziest thing to me is the intelligence of the primordial parts of a human being, and how it can differ from what you might expect. Every night I am in bed, there is a whole bunch of stimulation, but it's all the energy going to places it needs to go. I've tried retention with forced energy work, and while I experienced some things, it wasn't as complete nor as balanced as this has been. Don't get me wrong, it's ridiculously intense, but in not forcing it, I have found that retention was a lot easier, yet more complete, than when i tried forced methods. And there is still orgasm, at times I thought i was ejaculating or about to, and yet it was dry as bone in those regions. I think this is something that correlates with the "Succubus" experience some people have, and I can understand why folks thought they might be getting attacked if they didn't know what was going on. But the last thing that is happening to me is energy depletion, even this arousing energy is very "feminine". 

 

This is just for me, I don't know how it happens for others.

[4bsolute]

I would have to agree with this to pretty much everything you have said on the topic. I would say that, if there is some forcing, it might be a technique that is done prior to sexual stimulation. However, the energy movement itself... I have found it to be far more capable of doing it's own thing perfectly rather than trying to direct it.

 

I'm not working on the sexual arousal part, although I would perhaps say that the better way of describing it is that I am not instigating sexual arousal. I've only been retaining for about 8 days, practicing the Deer, Crane and Turtle from Stephen Chang's Internal Exercise Manual. Now I have been doing these techniques since November almost everyday, but in retaining they are pretty much on a different level. While the energy is pretty relegated to heat and tingling while doing the exercises, The true magic happens when I lie down for a nap or nightly sleep.

 

The structural and mental healing that has transpired over the past week has been ridiculous, but the craziest thing to me is the intelligence of the primordial parts of a human being, and how it can differ from what you might expect. Every night I am in bed, there is a whole bunch of stimulation, but it's all the energy going to places it needs to go. I've tried retention with forced energy work, and while I experienced some things, it wasn't as complete nor as balanced as this has been. Don't get me wrong, it's ridiculously intense, but in not forcing it, I have found that retention was a lot easier, yet more complete, than when i tried forced methods. And there is still orgasm, at times I thought i was ejaculating or about to, and yet it was dry as bone in those regions. I think this is something that correlates with the "Succubus" experience some people have, and I can understand why folks thought they might be getting attacked if they didn't know what was going on. But the last thing that is happening to me is energy depletion, even this arousing energy is very "feminine". 

 

This is just for me, I don't know how it happens for others.

 

Kundalini is feminine. And every night Kundalini rises and we have an OBE. this happens every night. If we can perceive it consciously or not. Call it primordial intelligence, yes.

 

The only thing that makes the difference is how far we can perceive it consciously.

Edited March 18, 2015 by 4bsolute

[phore]

 

This is exactly it, Tony. I have experienced the rising of this energy above my sexual region. And it felt like I couldnt hold it there. It was in my stomach. It felt very "new" and very, very, very tingly.

 

The main issue I currently have is how I can remove the sensations of my genitals into another area. I know when to stop. But even when only having my mind (!!) in that region, triggers an overload. The smallest touch, even just the pants going over that location, is enough to cause it. But this was never an orgasm, this was a very aroused energy.

 

I suggest more practice and "figuring out a way". The thing with this practice is just that it can reeeally take time (or not, depends on individuals capacity of paying attention to what goes on) because of the usual recovery of the orgasm and what else you have in mind which requires "spiritual energy" which is pretty much every of higher evolution.

 

In my experience you can also "copy" the sensation you have in a certain region of your body "e.g orgasmis feeling, prior to orgasm" into your brain. We dont have to be linearly with this, I believe it works non-linear without having to be in a certain "set of locations, one after the other to reach an end".

 

And yes I have also experiment with digesting my own semen again. It truly can be felt and experienced as a full course meal as how it saturates and boosts energy. But I am not completely sure about the re-absorption.

 

Many thanks.

concerning moving the energy of the genitals into another area:

I believe that the best sort of practice for this is basically a variation of the Glenn Morris Inner smile.  This technique has been posted on this forum before by Santiago Dobles. 

The full practice can be found here:  http://thedaobums.com/topic/9719-dr-morriss-secret-smile-breathing-basic-kap-1-giri-for-the-tao-bumbs/

 

Here i will quote the relevant part by Glenn Morris.

 

Relaxed Calm: After you are in the fudosai meditation posture and have begun Zen breathing for 5-10 minutes, put a smile on your face. You should actually lift your cheeks so the corners of your mouth turn up. Next tighten your toes until they really hurt and then release them. Do this three times paying attention to the relaxed feeling that occurs with in between each pause. Move that relaxed feeling up from the soles of your feet to your ankles and then up to your calves. Bring it around to your knees and to the heavy muscles of the thighs allowing them to soften and relax. Picture your thorax as a grail filling up with relaxation. Let the intestines, stomach, and lower back fill up as well. Next, allow it to flow up into your chest, upper back, and shoulder so that it overflows into your arms and down to the fingertips. Let your arms fill up until the relaxed feeling begins to move around your neck and up the back of the head coming up over your ears and skull to rest behind your eyes. Catch the feeling with your relaxed tongue and swallow it down to the bottom of your belly where you swirl it around.

 

Love: Now remember a time when you were in love and felt loving. Take out the loved one and the situation and hold onto that wonderful feeling. Take that down to your feet and bring it up through

your body over your head, swallow it down and mix with the other feelings. Then combine the four feelings to breathe through your body following the identical procedure. Do this for three or more cycles of breath.

 

Ecstasy: The smile is for adults over 19 years of age. If you are sexually active, remember the best orgasm you ever had, and if male, hold onto the movement just before ejaculation and breathe that feeling through

your body (as you probably don't want to stain your trousers and the male orgasm is usually too short for this exercise). If female, let it rip as you breathe through your body from the tip of your toes to the top of your head, down behind your eyes, through the tongue, and back to your belly. This is the power behind the secret smile and one of those important items usually regarded as oral transmission. Do this for three or more cycles of breath.

 

The primary part that will allow you to move the feeling of orgasm around is the part labeled ecstacy.  The first two states simply prepare the body for the energy flow by opening the channels.

 

Once you can feel this orgasmic ecstasy then begin running the microcosmic orbit with this energy.  Instead cultivating a sense of power with the orbit (as it is commonly presented), cultivate the sense of loving, orgasmic ecstasy.  Breath in loving orgasmic ecstacy, and breath out loving orgasmic ecstasy.

 

Once you can circulate the loving orgasmic ecstasy in the mco begin circulating it through the whole body.

 

I recommend Taoist secrets of love  and Healing love through the Tao, as well as Awaken Healing Light of the Tao By Mantak Chia 

 

These books contain various other applications of orgasmic energy. 

They contain techniques for semen/ ovarian retention.  It also contains technical discussions of cultivating full bodied orgasms and orgasm at specific points.  The Healing Love through the Tao book contains techniques for stimulating the various glands and organs through nipple and chest massage, which could allow people (primarily directed at women, but works for men as well) to direct a orgasmic concentration of energy to a variety of points. 

 

The only part people have trouble with typically is the forceful blocking of semen flow through external pressure on the perineum.  Ignore that part.  It really only comes into play if people haven't learned the real techniques in the book anyways.

 

Here's a link concerning a person who had success with Chias works on this subject.  http://thedaobums.com/topic/2568-semen-kung-chi-kung-and-crown-center-orgasms/

 

This is a relevant quote by xenolith on the subject.

The experience of a CCO is foremost one of awareness, in epiphionic clarity, of one's dynamo and of its place in the infinite energy field that is Life. The male dynamo spins counterclockwise and turns within itself as chi is delivered through penis tugs. Its like pulling oneself up a rope...with each pull, a pulse of energy is delivered to the dynamo, which churns to a higher voltage. As one sends additional chi to the crown, increasing the energy of one's dynamo, one becomes increasingly aware of the vastness of the energy field (of Life) within which one's own energy engine exists. It's humbling to the point of tears. Given the understanding of the greatness of one's own energy yet the vastness of the energy field within which it exists, one is overwhelmed with feelings of humilty and lonliness. And a desire to share one's energy with another energy being...IOW, a person. A person of opposite electrical polarity in particular. IOW, opposite gender. Connection. That's what a CCO experiencing person wants more than anything. But having tasted the golden nectar they are now different. And we don't like those that are different. And connection becomes more difficult. But some try anyway. I'm trying.

 

Most important of the observations that CCOs have shown me is that as Love in my Life increases, so does the voltage of my dynamo. Simply put, I'm a Love machine. We all are. Or if you prefer, we're creatures of Love (kudos to Mr. Byrne for his insight). This is based on my experience, but so is this:

 

I've got a hypothesis for what is taking place neurologically in CCOs. I think that SKF methods facilitate generation of neuro-electric charges within the sympathetic nervous system that, when propogated up the spinal system to the level of the cranium, become short circuited by the vagus nerve (from periniumm to cranium) resulting in the experience of a CCO. Maybe I'll illucidate on this hypothesis here someday (it pertains to the relationship of the governor channel and the vagus nerve). Mostly I'd like to find others who've experienced CCOs in order to compare notes with them. It's astonishing to me that I've not found a single person yet. Freeform, the reason that I don't believe your claim of knowledge of golden nectar is because of my understanding that experience of it is triggered by activation of the vagus nerve. And my understanding of the vagus nerve is that it operates independant of the sympathetic nervous system (and therefore of the gastro-intestinal tract and other glandular organs which would have been operant in the mechanism for golden nectar generation that you cited). I offer you my suspension of belief in this matter should you choose to show me the courtesy and the Love of directing me to a new discovery in this matter.

 

____________________________________

Here's an analogical explanation of how to achieve CCOs once the (as far as I can tell) requisite conditioning experience (which took me 10 years) (and which I belive is during which the neurologic (sympathetic system) connections between the perinium and the cranium are made) has been achieved:

 

It's copied from a post I made elsewhere in which I attempted to explain the incompatibility of the Aneros device with CCOs. Notwithstanding that particularity, I think its a worthwhile description.

 

Male sexual energy, also known as chi, is a yang substance, having characteristics of heat and volatility. The Aneros device is very good at stirring up chi. A good way to think about it is as a pot of fluid on a stove. This fluid has a very high coefficient of thermal viscosity...when at room temperature it's a very high viscosity fluid, meaning it's very resistant to flow, like molasses; when hot, it's a very low viscosity fluid, meaning it flows readily, like water.

 

In order to achieve CCOs, one must draw chi from what is referred to as the Sperm Palace up to the crown center. You can think about the Sperm Palace as being the pot of fluid on the stove, chi as the fluid in the pot and the crown center as being your mouth. The mechanism by which chi is drawn from the Sperm Palace to the crown center is by means of one's Microcosmic Orbit. You can think of the Microcosmic Orbit as being a paper mache straw between the pot of fluid on the stove and your mouth.

 

Now consider that in order for the straw to pass the fluid being drawn through it, the fluid must be at both the right viscosity and right temperature. Not hot enough, and the viscosity will be too high to pull through it through the paper mache straw, too hot and the heat of it will dissolve the paper mache straw. The latter condition is a good analogy for what happens to one's Microcosmic Orbit when using the Aneros device. The heat under the pot gets turned up very quickly, too quickly to be able to control and the paper mache straw, IOW one's Microcosmic Orbit, dissolves. Stimulation with the Aneros device results in what is akin to the pot of fluid boiling over, and the spilling of this fluid feels good. This is a prostate orgasm, or for purposes of this discussion, a leaking chi orgasm. This is why the Aneros device is not conducive to CCOs, the chi it generates gets too hot too fast, making controlling it impossible, which causes the Microcosmic Orbit to 'dissolve' under the shear heat of it. It's like trying to capture and transport lightning in a paper bag...too difficult to do. Based on traditional Taoist teaching and based on my experience, which is consistent with traditional Taoist teaching, I don't think anyone can achieve CCOs with the Aneros device installed. Simply put, it makes achieving them harder. No one would want to make achieving CCOs harder, it aint easy to start with. I'm sure guys that use the device have "mind-blowing" and whatever else descriptions one wants to use, orgasms, but in terms of traditional Taoist teaching and Seminal Kung Fu practice, they aren't having Crown Chakra Orgasms. Of course, I could be wrong about this, but I'm as confident about this as I am about my own existence, death and taxes.

 

In order to achive CCOs, chi must be controlled, i.e. held at just the right 'temperature' and 'viscosity' in order to keep the 'straw' of the Microcosmic Orbit open. The way to successfully control chi is to allow it to heat up slowly, very slowly. Once it's at the right condition, it can then be moved by means SKF up through the Microcosmic Orbit to the crown center, where, upon sufficient delivery of chi, spontaneously, a CCO will occur. The orgasm can be continued for as long as one can maintain the right condition (temperature and viscosity in our analogy) of their chi. Although viewing porn can be useful to get things starting to heat up, and actually, if one is careful and looks away for periods of time to keep things from heating too quickly (which will cause the MO to breakdown), all the way up until the CCO begins. But really, the SKF practice that one needs to be doing at this time to move chi along the MO will be requiring so much concentration that anything else in the room will effectively be a distraction to what one is trying to achieve. At some point, and certainly no later than once the CCO begins, I find the best thing to do is turn off the monitor/tv. One will want to be concentrating very intently on their SKF practice at this point as the sensations of the CCO are so pleasurable and attention holding that one will not want to be distracted by anything else in order to keep generating and maintaining the right condition of their chi, so that the CCO may continue. Like anything else that is a learned skill, practice makes one better able to do these things with more intuitiveness.

____________________________________________________

For those that aren't familiar with the method of CCO cultivation as described by Chia, here it is, typed directly, word for word from the Chia's book (Taoist Secrets of Love-Cultivating Male Sexual Energy).

 

1. Sit erect on the edge of your chair with your feet flat on the floor about shoulder width apart. Wear loose pants or wear nothing from the waist down, so it can literally all hang out. Do not practice naked in a cold room, or you could lose a lot of chi. With the air circulating around your bottom you�ll naturally become more aware of your �privates�. Allow your attention to center around your scrotum between the two testicles and you might be surprised to discover that it really is cold, or yin, down there. Make sure you feel very relaxed. If you are tense, do some stretching exercises or take a walk first to disperse tension.

 

2. Inhale slowly and pull the testicles up. Hold for awhile, then exhale slowly and lower testicles. As you inhale, think of the breath going down into the testes and filling them up. At the same time raise the testes with the breath. Gently continue inhaling and exhaling with the testicles until you feel a lot of cold energy in the scrotum. You may do this in a round of 9, then rest and practice again 3-6 sets. Use the mind alone to cause the movement of the testes up and down-don�t flex your penis or anus muscles.

 

After exercising for a week or two, you may observe the actual rise and fall of the testes with your breathing. This movement confirms that you are breathing properly. At a more proficient level, the lower abdomen will appear to move less: nearly all visible action will be in the scrotal sac itself. Breathe through the nose. The whole body must relax. Allow all tension to flow out of you as if you were in meditation. Use the mind alone to raise and lower your testes. With practice you will learn to identify the cold chi stored in the scrotum area.

 

3. Guide that �cold� feeling from your scrotum to your perineum by inhaling and pulling up slightly on your testicles. At the same time feel it coolly flow the few inches to the perineum, an action induced by putting your mind at the perineum and holding it there. Inhale and exhale several times at the testes to build up more energy. The retention of the chi at the perineum is very important, for if you release your attention the cold energy will drop down to the scrotum or leak out. It is just like you are using a straw to draw up the fluid. When you are out of breath and pause for a while you need to keep the attention by holding your finger over the straw. If you release it will drop down and you�ll have to start again. Do this for several days or until you get it.

 

4. Begin to draw the sex energy from the testes up the back channel, as if sipping on a straw. Always start with testicle breathing, inhaling and exhaling till you feel the chi energy is ready. Inhale, draw the �cold� from your testicles to the perineum and then draw it up to the coccyx, the very bottom of your spine, mostly bone, that�s called the hiatus opening of the sacrum.

 

When you pull the cool chi up to the perineum and then to the sacrum, slightly arch your lower back outward, as if you were standing with your lower back outward, as if you were standing with your back against a wall and flattening against it. Tilt the sacrum downward and hold it down in order to help activate the pump action, which will be further accentuated if you gently tighten the back of your neck and skull bones. Hold the energy at the sacrum for a while, then exhale but hold your attention at the sacrum.

 

Then let your sacrum and neck relax back to their normal positions, this will help activate the two pumps, sacral and cranium pump. At the same time do the testicle breathing. Bring the energy up to the sacrum again, hold it there till you can feel the sacrum open and the energy gradually move up. You can actually feel the cold energy move up a little at a time. If you�re having trouble feeling this, try rocking your sacrum back and forth and then hold still and observe the effect of this pumping.

 

There�s an indentation in the sacrum bone and that�s where you draw your testes� �cold� energy. This particular area is usually a little difficult to work because sperm energy is denser than chi and has to be pumped up. So that�s where that pump comes in. Some people experience pain, or tingling or pins and needles when the �cold� enters the hiatus, so don�t be upset if it happens to you. You can get through the coccyx if you�re having trouble by gently massaging the area with a silk cloth from time to time.

 

5. If you�ve managed to go up to your coccyx, spend the next week drawing the cold to T-11 in your mid-back (the 11th thoracic vertebra). Do it in the same manner, with an inhale-exhale at the testes and sucking it up your spinal straw to the perineum, sacrum, T-11 (opposite your solar plexus, at the last �floating� rib). Pull up and retain at T-11 till it feels full and continues to open and move up by itself. Again, because sperm energy is denser than chi, you have to accommodate it by flexing that part of your back in and out to straighten it. That loosens it for freer passage of the �cold� energy.

 

At the T-11 adrenal glands energy center, sitting atop your kidneys. In Taoist practice we regard this as a mini pump, where your arch will create a vacuum to push up the energy higher.

 

6. Your next stopping place is at your jade pillow. This is at the back of your head, between C-1 and the base of the skull. Do it in the same manner as described by inhale-exhale at the testicle and keep on pumping up the energy up to perineum, sacrum, T-11 and the base of skull. In this area is a place to store the energy for further use.

 

7. Your next stopping point is Pai-Hui, at the crown of your head. Do it in the same manner only this time fill the straw to the top. Tilt the sacrum to the back in order to straighten the curve out a little bit to help activate the pump action. This gets the lower pumping going. At the same time you tuck in your chin a little and squeeze the back of your skull, it will activate the upper cranial pump. Keep on pulling up to the point dead center on top of the head.

 

8. When the energy finally goes up into your head, men will have the very distinct feeling that it�s spinning and usually in a clockwise direction, as you look up. If you�re alert you can count 36 revolutions. It should feel good and refreshing; the extra energy should help your creative power and improve your memory. You can think more clearly, and are the beginning stage of controlling your sexual urges or frustrations. This sperm energy is later converted into chi, the original life force, in the spiritual levels of Taoist yoga. When people get older they�ve used up so much of their chi that the brain energy and spinal fluid gradually drain out and dry up, leaving a cavity. The testicle breathing transports the sexual energy to fill the cavity and vitalize the brain. Taoists regard the sexual energy as very close to the brain energy.

 

9. Finally you can bring the sexual energy from the testes up to the head in one sweet draw up the straw, a single clean inhale. In the beginning you can just go from station to station, till you feel the back channel (governor channel) is more open. Eventually you will be able to put your mind in the testicles and the crown of the head and just mentally move the sexual energy from the testicles up all the way to the brain.

 

10. Take your time to really feel the �cold� when you practice. Don�t rush it, and always keep those pumps going as you breath in and out. Use more mind than physical pull when you do all this. Let the �cold� feeling be your guide. Work at it too hard and you�ll heat up the �cold� chi. You won�t be able to safely store this hot energy in your brain.

 

The Golden Nectar

 

When your head is filled with sperm energy the excess sexual chi may spontaneously combust with the chi in your higher centers and spill over into the Microcosmic Orbit and flow down through your palate and down the tongue. This will taste different to different people. It's generally called the Golden Nectar but it can taste like champagne, honey, coconut juice, or fragrance of all kinds of things, or it can simply feel like a warm tingling sensation on your tongue.

_________________________________________________

 

Offered with Love.

I don't necessarily know what everyone means by sublimating, but that sounds pretty sublime to me. 

 

Chia also discusses in his book Taoist secrets of love using the scrotum as a diaphragm (along with the perineum and anus)  to pump the semen up into the various body cavities, such as the cavities containing the organs, or the hidden valley in the brain. 

When done without arousal this technique produces a cooling effect, with arousal this technique creates a valley orgasm/ tantric orgasm.

 

Love and Light

Tony

 

Edited to fix typos

Edited March 18, 2015 by phore