Can anyone explain the difference between Chi and Ling?

[Oolong Rabbit]

I read on another forum that tibetan tummo is more of a "Ling" based phenomena rather than chi based. Can anyone elaborate on what exactly "Ling" is? Also, Mantra and others have alluded to the fact that Kunlun phenomena is not really chi based either, but rather a form of "magnetism". Could Kunlun also be "Ling" based rather than chi? At the end of Max's book he gives an exercise that sounds very similar to tummo... drying went clothes in the winter with body heat. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

[mwight]

I read on another forum that tibetan tummo is more of a "Ling" based phenomena rather than chi based. Can anyone elaborate on what exactly "Ling" is? Also, Mantra and others have alluded to the fact that Kunlun phenomena is not really chi based either, but rather a form of "magnetism". Could Kunlun also be "Ling" based rather than chi? At the end of Max's book he gives an exercise that sounds very similar to tummo... drying went clothes in the winter with body heat. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

well from my own experience there are several types of energy

 

 

1. The lowest most plentiful Male(yang) and Female(yin) Sexual Energy, which can be converted to Emotional Energy.

 

 

2. Second highest up is emotional energy it also comes in yin and yang flavors.

 

3. Next up is Mental energy (psychic energy), again both in yin and yang.

 

4. Next is spiritual energy, which composes the spirit body. again both in yin and yang

 

I also hear there is void energy, but I am not advanced enough to comment on what it is.

 

 

I do know you can convert, sexual yin and yang, to emotional yin and yang, to mental yin and yang, to spiritual yin and energies. The tao of meditation has a great guide on this.

Edited October 8, 2007 by mwight

[林愛偉]

well from my own experience there are several types of energy

1. The lowest most plentiful Male(yang) and Female(yin) Sexual Energy, which can be converted to Emotional Energy.

2. Second highest up is emotional energy it also comes in yin and yang flavors.

 

3. Next up is Mental energy (psychic energy), again both in yin and yang.

 

4. Next is spiritual energy, which composes the spirit body. again both in yin and yang

 

I also hear there is void energy, but I am not advanced enough to comment on what it is.

I do know you can convert, sexual yin and yang, to emotional yin and yang, to mental yin and yang, to spiritual yin and energies. The tao of meditation has a great guide on this.

 

 

Spiritual Energy, or Ling Qi, is both Yina nd Yang, and is mainly manifested through proper cultivation. A good sign is the skull, forehead and top of the head, and sides, all begin to protrude. There is a change in shape of one's head. It is a sign of Spiritual energy in the crown... Yang Qi rising and cultivated properly, one gaining wisdom and spiritual abilities. It is only a sign, but not necessary for every one to have.

Having a shape-changed head doesn't mean one has abilities and wisdom. It just means one has been cultivating and there is result from it.

 

Peace,

Lin

[minkus]

[林愛偉]

Hello oolong rabbit, i have the same questions you have.

 

I cant give a direct answer to your question, i can quote you some things i found intresting about kunlun and its energy as also ill share you a few of the things i noticed the few times i did the practice (not sure even done 100% correct). Bare in mind im no proffesional and some of these things may sound weird (and some are yust very hard to explain as experience changes from person to person) . If you find so then do tell !

 

Ow also really wonna know more about this ling-qi btw ! You have any other signs or description of this energy Lin ?

 

Tummo also seems like an immensly intresting practice. On wich forum have you found info about tummo-practice ? can you post the link or even pm ?

Its been mentioned in a thread kunlun is a yin practice, as a cooldown i noticed you have to seal your hand left over right over the belly (so yin, yang, yin).

 

When having to much of the energy in your body you are advised to walk the earth, stamp on it, do gardenwork. (this was a tip from Mantra towards Cameron who practiced kunlun in combination with red phoenix-practice)

 

On the red phoenix website ( http://www.risingredphoenix.com/subjects.html ) about kunlun there is a mention of:

 

"Further, the magnetic current that one experiences during the practice is not Kundalini, but a more refined form of energy. Basically, one is tapping into the cosmic energy. This energy can sometimes be referred to as ultraviolet-3 radiation, which can only be found in the depths of space."

 

About Celestial Qigong:

 

"Celestial Chi Gung is a sitting meditation that allows one to tap into the energy of the universe via black hole."

 

and

 

"Technically, a black hole absorbs matter into a rotating vortex of magnetic energy. However, a black hole also emits waves and particles into space. One can use this form of energy for his personal awakening.

 

This form of radiation from the "black hole" is called ultraviolet-three and is only found in the depth of space, or in objects such as meteorites. This radiation does not travel through the earth because of the earth’s protective magnetic field will not allow ultraviolet-three to penetrate to the earth's surface."

 

...

 

Personal experience with the energy itself :

 

The kunlun exercise has a much more profound/powerfull effect when done at night (around 12 maybe a bit later) try it. Remarkable.

 

When doing kunlun it seems that the energy comes out from the ground, enters the feet/legs to go upward. It feels like from earth to sky so to speak .. im intrested to know people's experience with this.

 

I have a collection of very old keris (wich are made with a piece of meteorite) wich emit an immensly strong amount of yin. Kunlun energy doesnt seem to be the same though, it feels more subtle (although this can be an impression as i dont know surely yet how it feels when kunlun energy becomes toroughly packed/concentrated in a very small area). Also kunlun energy seems "inteligent" in another way, as the book says it very well knows what to do inside the body. (This gives me the impression its a littlebit harder to work with or cultivate, again yust a thought).

 

When i asked a male friend of me to feel the energy comming of my hand after only 10 minutes of kunlun he describes it as intense radiation of heatlike energy (like a stove) .. he had serieus intention of pulling he's hand away. On the other hand when i let a female friend of me feel the energy a day afterwords (after about 15 min of kunlun) she described it as very cold and windy .. she told me it felt like a radiator blowing cold wind between our hands who where 2 cm apart from eachother.

 

I dont know what to think anymore lol but it surely stays intresting. When i do kunlun for longer then 15 minutes i have to put of my tshirt and sweater, the heat is killing me .. well not killing more like nourishing but still its kinda warm.

 

Kind regards !

 

 

WOW big post.. haha

 

Ling Qi also enhances your psychic abilities, intuition and ability to absorb more teachings. It goes into the Celestial Qi Gong you are talking about. If the mind isn't cultivated for it, anything celestial will take a while to cultivate successfully.

 

Shengong is also another way of saying Celestial Qigong in my book, because it is only of the celestial and god realms...immortals and such, and utilizes sitting, walking, lying and moving, standing methods. Even though it has the power to be able to tap into the spirit and ghost, demon realms, I don't suggest anyone even consider it without someone there to guide them.. ATLEAST do it with trees, and plants because they are safer to learn gongfu from. There are celestial demons as well... that's why I say be careful.

Ling Qi.. also big ears, long arms with fingers reaching the knees and passing them slightly, heightened senses and a more sharper sense in the senses as well.

 

 

Stamping and the like sends the energy to the Earth, thus dropping out of one's body, and not causing problems, blockages, etc. When I used to get sick as a teenager, I would go to a tree, touch it and breath with it, giving it energy, and taking. I would feel more relieved each time until I was totally cleared from sickness.

 

Nature is the greatest healer. We only have to be patient and drop our mind in order to cure anything.

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited October 9, 2007 by 林愛偉

[三江源]

WOW big post.. haha

 

Ling Qi also enhances your psychic abilities, intuition and ability to absorb more teachings. It goes into the Celestial Qi Gong you are talking about. If the mind isn't cultivated for it, anything celestial will take a while to cultivate successfully.

 

Shengong is also another way of saying Celestial Qigong in my book, because it is only of the celestial and god realms...immortals and such, and utilizes sitting, walking, lying and moving, standing methods. Even though it has the power to be able to tap into the spirit and ghost, demon realms, I don't suggest anyone even consider it without someone there to guide them.. ATLEAST do it with trees, and plants because they are safer to learn gongfu from. There are celestial demons as well... that's why I say be careful.

Ling Qi.. also big ears, long arms with fingers reaching the knees and passing them slightly, heightened senses and a more sharper sense in the senses as well.

Stamping and the like sends the energy to the Earth, thus dropping out of one's body, and not causing problems, blockages, etc. When I used to get sick as a teenager, I would go to a tree, touch it and breath with it, giving it energy, and taking. I would feel more relieved each time until I was totally cleared from sickness.

 

Nature is the greatest healer. We only have to be patient and drop our mind in order to cure anything.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

This is quite fascinating, Lin. Do you have any book titles that I could look for that are about the Shengong that you refer to?

 

Is it similar to Shamanism? Or even the same.

 

Is shengong a natural byproduct of gong, so to speak?

 

Great thread topic, oolong. I was wondering the same thing myself.

Edited October 9, 2007 by cat

[minkus]

Thanx alot for the immense amount of info Lin (although i was a bit suprised about the long arms reaching the knee part when you talked about ling qi.. aswell as the ears o.O they start growing or what ?)

 

Also the shengong practice seems quite powerfull, what is the exact meaning of shengong ? what is the actual goal, more aimed at why you should practice with plants and three's first ?

 

Kudos !

[林愛偉]

This is quite fascinating, Lin. Do you have any book titles that I could look for that are about the Shengong that you refer to?

 

Is it similar to Shamanism? Or even the same.

 

Is shengong a natural byproduct of gong, so to speak?

 

Great thread topic, oolong. I was wondering the same thing myself.

 

There are no books I know of that really describe fully what Shengong is, and it would be somewhat dangerous to do so.. haha But in either case...

 

Shengong literally translated means Spiritual Cultivation. I call it Spiritual Intuitive Cultivation, either on eis the same. It is after much cultivation of Qigong, that one has purified the body to an extent, and mind as well, developed a good foundation in patience, wisdom, compassion(of course those 3 in my book..lol) and concentration power. Then one will have the capacity to ask the surrounding life forms, Trees, Mantis, other insects, plants, etc, for their cultivation techniques. Then one works their way up to the different celestial realms and star systems, etc.. working their cultivation to higher levels...way past Qigong. Eventually one wants to make a "light" body, illuminated body so to say...and though that is not the end result, it is a state of form much higher than the physical body we have... it is not a goal to strive to, but it is an outcome of certain practices.

One develops good wisdom from a well foundation from early on, properly guided by someone who can maintain a more positive environment for the cultivation, and proper wisdom and abilities manifest over consistent cultivation.

 

It is a system all of itself, not a byproduct. Yet it is only received after a certain level of attainment in cultivation. Qigong leads to it eventually, and still it is Qigong in all respects of working alignment, good health, and fun stuff of Qigong just emphasized by higher teachings..higher levels.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

Thanx alot for the immense amount of info Lin (although i was a bit suprised about the long arms reaching the knee part when you talked about ling qi.. aswell as the ears o.O they start growing or what ?)

 

Also the shengong practice seems quite powerfull, what is the exact meaning of shengong ? what is the actual goal, more aimed at why you should practice with plants and three's first ?

 

Kudos !

 

 

Plants and trees are safer.. haha unlike trying to contact spirits and ghosts, demons and the like.. unless you have those abilities to maintain your proper wisdom and concenetration, I wouldn't advise to get involved with any spirits or anything yet. Trees are better. But things can be influential nonetheless.. that is why practicing with someone who can maintain peace and positivity in the environment is very important.

 

Shengong is advanced, but if there is no consistency of practice, one will not get anything.. lol

 

The body will change shape as one goes along. The head will begin to change shape, the ears will get thicker, fatter maybe, longer at the lobes, the fingers will get longer, arms too... sometimes teeth will grow in again...all depends on ones mind and cultivation.

 

Peace,

Lin

[三江源]

There are no books I know of that really describe fully what Shengong is, and it would be somewhat dangerous to do so.. haha But in either case...

 

Shengong literally translated means Spiritual Cultivation. I call it Spiritual Intuitive Cultivation, either on eis the same. It is after much cultivation of Qigong, that one has purified the body to an extent, and mind as well, developed a good foundation in patience, wisdom, compassion(of course those 3 in my book..lol) and concentration power. Then one will have the capacity to ask the surrounding life forms, Trees, Mantis, other insects, plants, etc, for their cultivation techniques. Then one works their way up to the different celestial realms and star systems, etc.. working their cultivation to higher levels...way past Qigong. Eventually one wants to make a "light" body, illuminated body so to say...and though that is not the end result, it is a state of form much higher than the physical body we have... it is not a goal to strive to, but it is an outcome of certain practices.

One develops good wisdom from a well foundation from early on, properly guided by someone who can maintain a more positive environment for the cultivation, and proper wisdom and abilities manifest over consistent cultivation.

 

It is a system all of itself, not a byproduct. Yet it is only received after a certain level of attainment in cultivation. Qigong leads to it eventually, and still it is Qigong in all respects of working alignment, good health, and fun stuff of Qigong just emphasized by higher teachings..higher levels.

 

Lin

 

Ha, yes. It is precisely what the HT system teaches!

[林愛偉]

Ha, yes. It is precisely what the HT system teaches!

 

 

What is HT system

[mark72]

Hey Oolong,

 

I have two v.good sources i think can help with the ling/kunlun question.

 

I have the following quote from Dr. Baolin Wu,Longmen Pai lineage holder (40 years + Dragon gate and Celestial master sect training) from the White Cloud monastery,Beijing;

 

"The taoists believe each of usis born of both heaven and earth,conceived at the moment of perfect balance

between Yin and Yang for our own individual destiny.Before creation,our original essence is formed of

Ling Zi,ultra small cosmic particles that circulte throughout the universe.At conception,our Ling is pulled down to fuse with sperm and ovum.At this instant,Ling turns to qi.When we die,our ling (or essesnce) is released to combine with all the other Ling essences in the atmosphere.Once combined,the ling travels through the six realms to be born again in a new form."

 

Lonny S.jarret in his book on the inner tradition of clasical chinese medicine 'Nourishing destiny' states

"Let us go back to the beginning;Before the beginning was the dao.Let us call the dao zero,neither negative nor positive;pure potential -ling.

( p.24,note 5 from lagerway,1987.From a personal communication from Jeffery Yuen).

 

Also,Ling is the root of Lingbao-

"Biparte term signifyingthe notion of dao as a treasure existing inboth human and heaven.Ling is the heavenly aspect and bao is the earthly aspect identified with jing.Pure potential".

 

Lingbao is the name given to sacred transmissions of knowledge given from heaven to guide humans toward unity with the dao.The transmission of the Kunlun Neigung would,i believe be described as lingbao.

 

With regard to the nature of Kunlun energy;im going to give a guess based on what ive read( have not started the training yet and have not met max yet-will do in january)that the energy activated by the kunlun neigung is not qi.It is activating our electro magnetic field potential energy through the central channel.This clears the way for great chunks of qi to flow at a later date.

So,i think that the Kunlun energy is not ling, based on the above passages.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Mark.

Edited October 10, 2007 by mark72

[sunshine]

When this thing with the long arms is true, then Jimi Hendrix must truly have been...

 

I personally feel that getting answers on a subject someone else raised and might use in/with a completely different context/idea... can be misleading ... but what do I know

 

 

Harry

[林愛偉]

When this thing with the long arms is true, then Jimi Hendrix must truly have been...

 

I personally feel that getting answers on a subject someone else raised and might use in/with a completely different context/idea... can be misleading ... but what do I know

 

 

Harry

 

 

They are only signs of ling qi, or even some attainment, but the person may not even realize it, be able to tap into it, harness it. They just have the formations of such due to their previous lives of cultivation.

 

Peace and Blessings,

lin

[rain]

...............

Edited April 17, 2008 by rain

[Oolong Rabbit]

Hey Oolong,

 

I have two v.good sources i think can help with the ling/kunlun question.

 

I have the following quote from Dr. Baolin Wu,Longmen Pai lineage holder (40 years + Dragon gate and Celestial master sect training) from the White Cloud monastery,Beijing;

 

"The taoists believe each of usis born of both heaven and earth,conceived at the moment of perfect balance

between Yin and Yang for our own individual destiny.Before creation,our original essence is formed of

Ling Zi,ultra small cosmic particles that circulte throughout the universe.At conception,our Ling is pulled down to fuse with sperm and ovum.At this instant,Ling turns to qi.When we die,our ling (or essesnce) is released to combine with all the other Ling essences in the atmosphere.Once combined,the ling travels through the six realms to be born again in a new form."

 

Lonny S.jarret in his book on the inner tradition of clasical chinese medicine 'Nourishing destiny' states

"Let us go back to the beginning;Before the beginning was the dao.Let us call the dao zero,neither negative nor positive;pure potential -ling.

( p.24,note 5 from lagerway,1987.From a personal communication from Jeffery Yuen).

 

Also,Ling is the root of Lingbao-

"Biparte term signifyingthe notion of dao as a treasure existing inboth human and heaven.Ling is the heavenly aspect and bao is the earthly aspect identified with jing.Pure potential".

 

Lingbao is the name given to sacred transmissions of knowledge given from heaven to guide humans toward unity with the dao.The transmission of the Kunlun Neigung would,i believe be described as lingbao.

 

With regard to the nature of Kunlun energy;im going to give a guess based on what ive read( have not started the training yet and have not met max yet-will do in january)that the energy activated by the kunlun neigung is not qi.It is activating our electro magnetic field potential energy through the central channel.This clears the way for great chunks of qi to flow at a later date.

So,i think that the Kunlun energy is not ling, based on the above passages.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Mark.

 

Thanks Mark and Aiwei for the definitions. Would you say that Ling is basically synonymous with Wu-Chi: the primordial energy that gives rise to both yin and yang chi but is neither? This sounds like some pretty powerful energy, and would be even higher/more pure than ying/yang chi as I interpret it.

 

Ironically, I couldn't find a damned thing about Ling last night, and while typing this response do a search for "myriad things", click on the first link and get this page which in the very first line translates Ling as "human consciousness". That's gotta be synchrnicity at play.

 

 

P.S. Sorry if I am making this more complicated than it is. Old habits die hard

[林愛偉]

Thanks Mark and Aiwei for the definitions. Would you say that Ling is basically synonymous with Wu-Chi: the primordial energy that gives rise to both yin and yang chi but is neither? This sounds like some pretty powerful energy, and would be even higher/more pure than ying/yang chi as I interpret it.

 

Ironically, I couldn't find a damned thing about Ling last night, and while typing this response do a search for "myriad things", click on the first link and get this page which in the very first line translates Ling as "human consciousness". That's gotta be synchrnicity at play.

P.S. Sorry if I am making this more complicated than it is. Old habits die hard

 

Any form of Qi is an outcome, or an expression of things in motion/thought/emotion/desire...it is a "Form".

 

Putting a thought to say Wu Ji is Wu Ji is to give it a form.. hehe right? BUT that which is Wu Ji would consist of the potential to manifest Ling Qi for the expression inwhich Ling Qi can manifest. Ling Qi would be the vessel for the conditions Wu Ji would be expressed through.

 

Peace,

Lin

[Oolong Rabbit]

Any form of Qi is an outcome, or an expression of things in motion/thought/emotion/desire...it is a "Form".

 

Putting a thought to say Wu Ji is Wu Ji is to give it a form.. hehe right? BUT that which is Wu Ji would consist of the potential to manifest Ling Qi for the expression inwhich Ling Qi can manifest. Ling Qi would be the vessel for the conditions Wu Ji would be expressed through.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

 

Haha okay you got me on an obvious philosophical technicality there Aiwei! So Ling is definitely not synonymous with Wu-Ji. Now that I think about it, I don't know what the heck I was even thinking when I wrote that. So.... would it be safe to say that Ling is a primordial chi that is neither ying nor yang. Not really "tai chi", but maybe both and neither simultaneously.

 

What do you make of the other author's definition of Ling as consciousness? I am guessing a bad translation.

[林愛偉]

 

Haha okay you got me on an obvious philosophical technicality there Aiwei! So Ling is definitely not synonymous with Wu-Ji. Now that I think about it, I don't know what the heck I was even thinking when I wrote that. So.... would it be safe to say that Ling is a primordial chi that is neither ying nor yang. Not really "tai chi", but maybe both and neither simultaneously.

 

What do you make of the other author's definition of Ling as consciousness? I am guessing a bad translation.

 

 

Well, it is a consciousness in its own right because it can be perceived and it does have its function. Like I said, it is an expression through mind. So it is still a consciousness..hehe sorry about the technicalities, I go over board sometimes..lol Not easy to explain with my forgetting enlglish and all. been in China too long.

 

Anything that can be expressed will have a manifestation through the expressions of Yin and Yang. So it can be viewed as Yin and Yang at time, and neither as well.. depending on the mind. Everything comes from a thought, and it will have its place in duality, hence the the creation of the one, the two, the three and the myriad things.

They are created because of the creation of the idea of the one. It is the process of balancing out causes and conditions.. karma.. he he he

Getting caught up in the myriad things, because it is quoted in the Dao De Jing isn't the point to cultivating the Dao De Jing. Not saying you are, but many do believe that because there is a creation of things, that to move with the things is good.

From Wu Ji, there is a thought of one, and then so on. Any thought, movement, anything formed energetically, physically, is subject to causes and conditions and the balancing, clearing of them...karma.

 

Going with the flow is ordinary, going against the flow is extraordinary. Creating the flow is cultivation, and putting down the one creating is Mastery.

 

 

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited October 11, 2007 by 林愛偉