How did your Dark Night of the Soul end?

[Songtsan]

That about sums up my experience too...cycles and cycles, in and out...yep. I went down for years, then flourished, then down...perhaps I will flourish again soon. I think that the times I did best were those where I was the most fearless and explored tangents of myself..

[Seeker of Wisdom]

...One thing Im getting now is what I wrote in the Ludus Amoris thread, sometimes I can be stopped in my tracks by the most sublime feelings of beauty and love for the world. In these moments, nothing could be dark or meaningless, in fact there is no thinking going on to think such things...

 

If I were Daniel Ingram, I might say you're shifting between something nice like equanimity or arising & passing, and the dark night. Now I'm not that far myself and I don't know anything about the route your path has gone through, so I hesitate to state anything about what's going on for you. But that's a possibility for you to consider...

Edited April 22, 2015 by Seeker of Wisdom

[Nikolai1]

Hi Seeker,

 

I really loved the first part of the Ingram book - i thought it was brilliant - but when he started talking about the different jnanas I got seriously confused. He seemed to talk about the dark night as if it was a pasing phase of meditation? I've always understood it as being a phase of life!

[Seeker of Wisdom]

According to Ingram, once you cross A&P then you will cycle between A&P and re-observation, until you practice your way up out of the dark night to the stage of equanimity. Once there if you stop practice because it's so nice there you'll slip back down into the dark night, but if you just keep practicing you'll reach awakening.

 

I'm just repeating theory here - I haven't yet reached A&P myself, and I may be wrong about this being your situation anyway.

 

But I do think that perhaps you're in the situation of dark night yogi - in that cycle, not knowing that past re-observation you can get up and out to equanimity and awakening, it's easy to be stuck in the dark night and see it as a phase of life, when really it's a phase in the development of insight.

 

Before your first dip into the dark night, do you remember anything that could be considered A&P? Energy phenomena, experiencing things as rapidly flickering, unitive experiences, hypersexuality, heightened philosophizing, general awesomeness, weird shaking, really lovely practice? Because it's the experience of so many people that A&P->dark night like sunrise->day. Also, are there stages you're moving between in your dark night, times when it's more fear based, then more misery, then more 'oh I'm sick of existence', then more 'how do I escape everything?', or something similar?

 

If that sounds relevant to your situation, I'd advise asking people on the Dharma Overground how to proceed, because those guys have actually done this stuff and I haven't yet, they could help you see much more precisely what's going on and what to do about it.

 

Actually I hope my conjecture here is right, because it means the solution for you is so simple and you aren't too far from a real payoff. Vipassana, just going at it any way that helps you objectify phenomena ('shitty feeling arising', rather than 'I feel so shit') until you strike up past re-observation into equanimity, saying to yourself 'well, this is great, but mustn't stop here', carrying on practice with an emphasis on subtle background stuff like time, space, the sense of a watcher, etc, until... 'pop'.

 

In any case, best of luck. 

 

[Nikolai1]

Hi Seeker

 

Well I guess like lots of people here I experience things that are sometimes new, sometimes weird, sometimes pleasant, sometimes unpleasant.  These things have always happened spontaneously and I haven't gone out to experience anything in particular. If my path was a yoga it would be a combination of raja (meditation) and Jnana (philosophical enquiry) - so very dry by lots of standards.

 

Before your first dip into the dark night, do you remember anything that could be considered A&P? Energy phenomena, 

 

 

I don't do any energetic work like Tai Chi or qi Gong, but there have been energetic changes anyway.  The most obvious, which I feel most the time is a very subtle, pleasurable buzzing which I first noticed about three years ago.  I think this is the foundation for the peace which never goes far away and which I talked about in the OP.  I also sometimes get intensely pleasuable feelings in my hips, strangely enough.

 

On bad days all of this goes and I feel only heavy.

 

experiencing things as rapidly flickering

 

No not flickering, I would call it shimmering.  But also beautiful pin pricks of light which 'show' themselves to me and are completely charming and adorable.  Also water looks much different to me.  it flows thicker, more like oil.  When it is standing I don't see the water only what is reflected. This is also gorgeous and on a wet day the world is a stunning wide vista both above my head and below my feet.  I tried to capture the spirit of this in my haiku yesterday:

 

The line is tangled
In the branches, but the carp
Is hooked all the same. 

 

 

unitive experiences

 

No not really.  I think this is more a matter of the heart, and I'm not really a heart person but a head person.

 

 

hypersexuality

 

Yes, in that sex is the only pleasure that is available to me and it's almost like I cling to it sometimes. But for a while now I've had this strange attitude towards women.  It's like they are these amazing otherworldly beings, almost like its a privilege to share the planet with them.  I think women have started to represent to me 'the other'.  Like nearly everything of who I was has fallen by the wayside, except my masculinity, which is a stubbornly fundamental attribute of the being we call Nikolai.  

 

So women have become this fundamental 'other'.  Women fascinate me like never in my life before, and I see beauty in every woman, a sheer exoticness.  I think i've wrote this before, but women. as this 'basic' other have almost become the sacred in contrast to the profane which is the masculine.  I'd be interested if anyone else has noticed this strange attitude to the opposite sex? we hear a lot about an increasing androgyny as we mature spiritually, but I've noticed in myself the opposite as a reaction to loss of self.  Each night I sleep with my wife on one side and baby daughter on the other; women are part of my intimate existence, and yet as a concept they are alien.  Very strange.

 

heightened philosophizing

 

Of course, but that's been my way since I was young and before all this started.  My mind went very much ahead and the rest of me is taking a long to catch up.  I understand many wonderful things that I don't feel to be the truth.

 

 

general awesomeness, weird shaking, really lovely practice?

I don't have any formal practice any more. Each moment is either difficult enough to occupy me, or pleasant enough to enjoy.

 

Hey thanks for asking.  I've indulged in a whole load of 'me' talk, there!

[mostly_empty]

If I were Daniel Ingram, I might say you're shifting between something nice like equanimity or arising & passing, and the dark night. Now I'm not that far myself and I don't know anything about the route your path has gone through, so I hesitate to state anything about what's going on for you. But that's a possibility for you to consider...

 

Not to disagree so much as just to provide a different point of view: I really haven't any clue if you have the sort of accomplishment that would characterize yourself in that state. On the other hand excessive contemplation has been said to lead to deficient spleen qi with a side order of stagnation. This does in turn lead to difficulties appropriately relating to people and onwards down the cycle.  It is one of a set of situations I considered before writing the previous post; but finding that you are likely to be a sleep deprived new dad ups the odds a little. 

 

Getting yourself out of head into your body and working on something heart based seems worth a try.

 

As always, best of luck.

[Heartlumination]

Hi Nikolai1,

 

I have been through what they call the dark night of the soul and understand what it feels like to seem that nothing can bring joy, almost like everything seems pointless.  

 

My came from dedicated energetic practice with the Kunlun system.  I had many profound blissful experiences during practice as well an extreme sense of peace and joy and many other things.  

 

This eventually led to everything appearing meaningless and to me trying to figure out what happened and why it ended up this way.  Which led to anxiety, depression, vertigo and other crazy things.  In the thick of it I did not know what was happening in fact I went to many doctors to get blood work, an MRI and even did some counseling.  Well, none of that helped and only made me start to analyze things even more.  It got to the point to where I had given up hope and had exhausted this body trying to figure out how to get back to the old self. I then submitted and gave up and accepted that these are the way things are and thats ok. That is when real purification started happening.

 

I then became aware of many things, I had always considered myself a go with the flow type of individual which I was not.  I also thought I was a very selfless individual which I wasn't.  I also realized that I needed to be there for others around me to share my love and energy with them.  And most importantly I realized that I was attached to practicing and the experiences that it brought to my life.  And that I actually knew and know nothing and everything that I thought I knew meant nothing.  I can tell you what that was very hard at the time to face.  6 months of purification, I cried more in these months than in my whole life.

 

The only thing that is not ok with anything is your identity, your ego.  When you are going through the dark night of the soul you are loosing your identity and starting to live from your being.   Your ego will do everything to try to remain in control hence the suffering. Your being, your soul which is beyond words, thoughts, emotions but which is pure love.  Not a lustful love or an infatuation type of love but just pure love radiating out of your heart and your whole being.  It is quite funny actually because I am sure you have heard the phrase "be without being"  it is to be without identifying that your being.  I can't even really write to explain it in a way to where intellectual words get in the way, hahaha.  Being is beyond intellect.  Don't try to figure out why things are the way they are just be ok with the way they are and then everything is ok.  It takes a sec to do this but just be silent and watch that intellectual ego trying to protect itself and stay in control.  My ego was ridiculous trying to hold onto everything and stay in control.  Some things that helped me to get through this were.

 

1.Show love and gratitude to everyone around you.  If you are not use to this it can take a second.  The great thing is though that everything you radiate out radiates back on you.  Radiate love the love radiates back at you.  This will bring the energy into your heart which will allow you to be ok with things and also will make have a great feeling in your chest.  Which will bring an unattached appreciation for the mundane things in life.  Again have love for those around you and it will do wonders for you.

 

2.  Walk barefooted as much as possible on the grass, under the trees.  You need to get the energy out of your head.  When you energy up in your head it can make thinks appear very illusionary making you unattached form the physical world.  Also energy up in the head can lead your mind on a marathon of thinking and figuring out especially if that ego is in control and  strongly intact.

 

3.  Try acupuncture.  When I was going through the thick of it I went to see a Japanese herbalist/accupuncture.  He took one look at me and said that I had an extreme yin imbalance.  Which cause on to carry a lot of energy up in there head as well as other things.  The acupuncture only helped to ground and balance me in turn helping me have the energy to surrender and give up the trying to figure out or understanding mind.  

 

4.  One other thing that helped me to connect to the heart which is the seat of the soul is something suggested in OSHO's book of Secrets.  Visualize a bright flame in your chest and let that light reflect your body.  Think of this as much as you can throughout your day.  Sounds strange but really quiets the mind/ego identity and puts your awareness where it should be.  Give it a shot it could help.

 

They say that if you swing the pendulum up into bliss in has to swing back the other way to balance itself, hence "the dark night of the soul".  The trick then is to not get attached to any of it ups or downs.  Then the pendulum disappears for it was only created because of the ego/ intellect. I can't help but laugh as I write this what a cosmic joke.  Check out the heart sutra.

 

To end this long rant, your being and your soul is always ok with everything, and knows everything and yet does not need to understand anything the one trying to understand is your intellect/ego. When you live from your being everything will always work out.  Surrender, Feel,don't think just be.  You will get through this be strong.  I wish you well.

[Nikolai1]

Hi heartlumination

 

What a wonderful and helpful post, I really appreciate it.  The funny thing is, this morning I logged on specifically to write a post named 'I think my dark night may be ending...', after a bit of a revelation a few days ago, but I won't say more about it here. 

 

There is so much I want to say to you but I'll have to limit myself a bit:

 

I then became aware of many things, I had always considered myself a go with the flow type of individual which I was not.  I also thought I was a very selfless individual which I wasn't.  I also realized that I needed to be there for others around me to share my love and energy with them.

 

I understand that this kind of process is common although it hasn't happened with me.  I think I've always found it very hard to categorise myself and I don't think I ever had a strong idea of who I am and am not.  I have always seen quite strongly the inherent contradictions: I can be outgoing and also shy.  I can be lazy and sometimes very goal orientated.  I can be kind and bitchy. I can put others first and be selfish.  I think I first saw this in myself as a teenager and so I've never developed a strong persona.  In fact I remember being asked to describe myself in an interview and I was absolutely stumped - what am I in particular?

 

If there is one thing that people reliably comment on with regards to Nikolai, one adjective, it is: intelligent.  Everywhere I go, this is how people react to me.  I seem to almost exude it, people start picking up on it without me even saying anything.  It's just the air I have I guess.  And I also recognise it in myself, it would seem perverse to deny it...

 

Now I've not suddenly seen that I am also very stupid, but something else has happened.  My intelligence depended on the explicability of the world.  And the world has become a very strange and ambiguous place so that I find myself unable to say anything coherent about it.  Knowledge that I previously prized I now see as worthless.  Basic aspects of science, philosophy etc have been neglected because I don't read or think about them. The at-handness of the knowledge is gone or going, and I find it hard to speak confidently about things that I was once fairly certain about.

 

So my intelligence is deserting me, and I can't do anything about it.  The process of the dark night is therefore not revealing me of something that was always there, rather stripping me of the only reliable aspect of my old persona.

 

When you energy up in your head it can make thinks appear very illusionary making you unattached form the physical world.  Also energy up in the head can lead your mind on a marathon of thinking and figuring out especially if that ego is in control and  strongly intact.

 

To someone whose path has been intellectual, jnana yoga I call it, the energy dynamics you talk about are themselves just more intellectual constructs.  Although I fully recognise their validity in other paths, talk of this kind cannot help me any more.  To focus on a path is first to exclude other paths, and then to progressively refine your own until you reach a place that all the other refined paths have also reached.  

 

I excluded the bodily path early on; but progress in what you call energy dynamics has been happening of its own accord. An intellectual breakthrough that one might get through reading, say, Kant, has a distinctive energetic component felt in the body that never entirely dissipates. A thoughtful person, through successive understandings develops a constant pleasant buzzing that never really goes. But for me these have to come as side effects, not main effects sought.  The moment I try to focus on them, an intellectual deconstruction will naturally occur and the felt effects will be inhibited.  I think there's probably lots of readers who find this a very dry and depressing path, but that's the way it is for me!

 

On the other hand, for those who focus on energy in the body, there will come a stage when profound philosophical insights spontaneously occur.  But the same person will have no success if they decide to sit down at their desk and start deliberately learning formal logic and the history of epistemology! They will simply notice how energetically dry it feels, and no further insights will come! That's just the way it goes!

 

Anyway, I'll leave it there because I want to start a different thread.

 

All the best to you!