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shanlung

Is personality unique to humans?

By shanlung, in Daoist Discussion

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Lth   

Lth
Posted

Some folks eat clay, it can neutralize acids, correct bowel issues, but im thinking that calorically eating inorganic material would represent a net loss, and not be feasible as a diet. A diet of pure protein is similar for humans , beyond about 1500 calories per day.

 

look for the reasons why there are acids and bowel issues in the first place

 

a lot of people are quick to issue their fixes, without actually looking at the root causes

 

such a silly animal that human, with quite a personality! ^_^

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Stosh   

Stosh
Posted

look for the reasons why there are acids and bowel issues in the first place

a lot of people are quick to issue their fixes, without actually looking at the root causes

such a silly animal that human, with quite a personality! ^_^

Yeah, thats a fair point, but if one does happen to get a case of the ummm loose stools, or agita its an answer.(good enough for parrots)

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voidisyinyang   

voidisyinyang
Posted

 

This sled dog trainer saw a starving polar bear approach his dogs - thought they were food which happens - but instead the dog and bear began playing together.

 

Then the bear actually brought his family back to play with the dogs again and now it's a regular annual event.

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Marblehead   

Marblehead
Posted

This sled dog trainer saw a starving polar bear approach his dogs - thought they were food which happens - but instead the dog and bear began playing together.

 

Then the bear actually brought his family back to play with the dogs again and now it's a regular annual event.

Yeah, I saw that in a documentary recently.

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voidisyinyang   

voidisyinyang
Posted

Even flies are smart. Instead of trying to kill just turn all lights off except an outside light. Then open door and fly will find the light and freedom.

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Stosh   

Stosh
Posted

I would be more impressed , if they turned out the lights when then left the room, my niece hasn't even mastered that !

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voidisyinyang   

voidisyinyang
Posted (edited)

I would be more impressed , if they turned out the lights when then left the room, my niece hasn't even mastered that !

 

That must be epidemic. All the females in my family refuse to turn lights out but then I realized it is not just a lights thing - it is anything that does not directly benefit them.

 

For example - leaving the greens out on the counter - after taking greens to eat, leaving the container out. I have repeatedly explained that ruins all the rest of the greens as they oxidize and wilt.

 

It must be some immediate gratification thing.

 

Think of bees - they have to visit thousands of flowers to make one drop of honey.

 

They work so hard and think of how much planning that takes in advance.

 

I know bees also have neurohormones just like us - dopamine and serotonin, etc. - which means they also have emotions, just as fish can get sad and lonely when their owners go on vacation.

 

Let's look that one up again.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3042921/The-dolphin-turns-PINK-s-angry-sad-Mammal-baffles-scientists-blushing-gets-emotional.html

 

o.k. so we have blushing dolphins. I know blushing is an extreme parasympathetic nervous system reaction - flushing the face with serotonin.

 

It's from too much stress causing an opposite extreme.

 

Too bad the dolphin was almost killed in the Japanese annual massacre.

 

o.k. so looking for fish depression - I find a fish forum accusing the person claiming fish depression as "anthropomorphising."

 

Yes it is truly amazing that attributing emotions to animals is still considered to be a psychological projection by humans!

 

 

 

a fully developed pain 'pathway' is present in goldfish, linking receptors in the skin, via the spinal cord, to the brain.

The question is whether they are aware, or conscious, of pain in the same way we are. Only then could they be said to suffer.

a

nd

 

 

 

goldfish, previously the very byword for stupidity, have the ability to learn and remember their way around mazes.

And male cichlids, aggressive freshwater tropical fish, have been found to be able to gauge the fighting abilities of potential rivals simply by watching earlier bouts.

This ability - to create a mental ranking - is called transitive inference, and humans cannot do it until they are four years old.

 
I guess the science is still out on this but the fish lack the prefrontal cortex or something that would enable "sentience."
 
 
pdf link on the topic.
 
Personally I think - right brain visual dominance would not necessarily require prefrontal cortex for sentience.
 
I think - I mean even if there is no vocalization with left brain dominance.... there is "awareness" - but maybe not self-awareness?
 

 

Even some invertebrates such as insects and snails have central

nervous systems. Although these are relatively simple they can take in sensory information, they

can learn and can initiate action. A few large invertebrates such as octopi have particularly

impressive nervous systems (Butler and Hodos, 2005). All vertebrates including fish have brains

with the same major structures and divisions (Butler, 2008a; Squire et al., 2002), reflecting a

“common ancestry and the need to perform similar vital functions” (Laberge, 2006, 177). The

genes underlying nervous system development have been virtually unchanged throughout

evolution (Butler, 2008a). Even the recently-evolved neocortex exists in some form in all

vertebrates including birds and reptiles (LeDoux, 1996).

 

and

 

 

 

Joseph LeDoux, a neural scientist and author of the acclaimed book The Emotional Brain

(1996), says all animals have some form of that brain. According to Jaak Panksepp (2005), an

expert in affective neuroscience, raw emotional experience may reflect “an ancient form of

consciousness” (57) because the underlying systems are so alike between humans and other

animals. For animal scientist Temple Grandin, it is clear that all animals and people have “the

same core emotion systems in the brain” (2009, 5).

 

But sentience? That is "feelings" versus emotions. Interesting.

 

 

Damasio (2001) distinguishes between emotions and feelings – emotions as

automatic physical responses from lower and middle brain regions, versus feelings as higher-order

mental representations resulting from emotion.

 

and

 

 

Furthermore, Webster (2005) suggests

that while fish may not have pain-related brain regions identical to those of mammals, the data are

clear that fish know fear and pain. He argues that: “It now becomes the responsibility of the

neuroanatomist to seek out sites in the fish brain that do respond to painful stimuli” (61).

 

It appears than that "fish sentience" is very much a matter of scientific debate and current research!

 

That author argues all vertebrates are sentient.

 

 

Edited by Innersoundqigong
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Stosh   

Stosh
Posted

Ya gotta admit though, even your own expectations are rather a low bar. And even if they are sentient, whatever that is defined as , 1, they too ,as us, would be or are, living but an illusion that we are alive.

2, there is no force compelling us to act any different towards them,,, even if they found a monkey einstein, we can still opt to eat it. (Most cultures have known instances of cannibalism anyway) 3 , the brilliant emotion filled hyena ..pack, would joyfully consume one of us.

So even if fish and carrots do get scared, it just doesnt matter.

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shanlung   

shanlung
Posted

 

hmm its hard to answer. what i know is that there is a chemical addiction to animal protein. especially meat there is an substance called hypoxanthine in the blood cells of an animal. when you get it it makes you crave more of it, similar to drugs. so most likely this substance is there so predators would actually want to eat the meat, because they eat their pray raw, that is obviously different from cooked meat. but even in cooked meat, in lower quantities this substance remains.

 

what i also know is its been proven human digestive system is not fit for consuming meat. compared to other predatory animals humans have a diferent digestive system which prefers fast metabolising foods, rather than staying in stomach foods stay longer in the intestine, which does not fit for digesting meat, as meat needs to stay longer in the stomach to be broken down properly.

 

whereas predatory animals have 10 times stronger stomach acid than human and all the food they eat remain in stomach most of the time.

 

so thats why with eating meat all sorts of problems arise in people. animal protein and cholesterol is basically linked to almost every modern disease people develop today

 

but so i did not know this information when i was still consuming meat. it came by inner guidance. i just tried other foods. it came to me just like that. it was also a question of how to eat cheap at the time. because where i lived then meat wasnt cheap. so it happened that i was busy, forgot about it completely for a month or so, and then started seeing changes.

 

it happens to be that you need all this time because these substances are already accumulated in yourself from long time of consuming and so it takes time for body to get rid of them. when body is clean again then you regain your senses and see meat in a different way, for what it is

 

so basically meat is like a drug, with very minimum nutrition

 

 

I am a carnivore.  A good reason to be a Taoist.

One way to differentiate Taoist temple from Buddhist temple in Far East, especially as both temples

make liberal uses of each other images will be to see what they got on the front altar during the worship.

 

Buddhist temple will have only fruits and flowers.

Taoist temple will have fruits and flowers and roast pork and roast chicken.

 

As long as things are done, or eaten, or drunk, or lust satisfied, but should be done in moderation, it will be ok to a Taoist

Taoist should have less or even no hang ups.

 

Now that being said, Dalai Lama loves a good juicy steak.

Do not take my word!

 

Go google "Dalai Lama loves  steak" , especially if you cannot take the word of a professed Idiot.

 

Taoistic Idiot hungering for pork chop and a beer to wash that down, but cannot for love or money while in KSA

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shanlung   

shanlung
Posted

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365119731/

 

Just watched this amazing Nature doc episode on Parrots.

 

Tragic yet fascinating - the difference between a healthy life in the wild versus captivity.

 

But then modern humans are also living in captivity - pretty amazing the doc doesn't even realize this. haha.

 

 

I could not see that video.  My VPN proxy got too slow for me to try to see that.

I can imagine the maker of that video tried to show a very ugly side of folks,  who should not even be allowed to keep dogs or cats ,  and keeping parrots.

 

I believe that anyone who keep a beastie, and especially a birdie, must treat the birdie with the courtesy and respect due to an intelligent sentient.

 

Not only the physical needs to be taken care of.  In that good healthy food and water , and good clean and big enough environment provided.  Not those sick advice from EXPERTS  that as long as the wings do not touch the side of cage, the cage is big enough.

 

And IN ADDITION  , the mental and emotional needs of the birdie must be satisfied.

 

If not, those people should keep a Norwegian Blue or a teddy bear.

 

Idiotic Taoist

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shanlung   

shanlung
Posted

Why am I not surprised by above video posted by zerostao.

Almost like asking if Laotze and Chuangtze were Taoist or not.

 

You have seen from time to time, my life intertwined with birds regardless if bills were hooked or straight and from my heart, they are not just smart, they are intelligent sentients maybe differing from us because of their different cultural backgrounds.

 

Here is one episode from Tinkerbell.  

Which was never repeated since then.

 

That it happened even once was enough for me and never forgotten.

I doubt those who read that incident can forget that either

 

Tinkerbell Revisited - The beyond humaness of Tinkerbell

 

 

 

Idiotic Taoist still beyond words to describe what was experienced

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