Alchemy for the Rest of Us

[noonespecial]

NO longer relevant

Edited August 5, 2015 by noonespecial

[FraterUFA]

 

 

Herein lies the key diference between alchemy and her eastern cousins, rather than awakening the base energy in the Muladhara star and projecting it upward, the alchemist takes in solar current through the crown and allows or directs this external fire to rouse the actions of the internal or secret fire, both are aspects of the principle of sulphur. In the process of allowing the twin fires to burn away the dross from the psychic centers; the alchemist also extracts and builds up his own spiritual essence (Mercury) via the body (the blood), however this only occurs after the marriage of the two fires in the heart center, thus the alchemist gives birth from the heart, this is the Chemical Wedding.

 

This is not alchemy. There are no chakras in alchemy.

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Too complicated already.

consider that the root of freedom is a quiet mind

the root of alchemy is as small as a spark making light in an empty room

and the way to see the road is by having clear eyes.

[noonespecial]

This is not alchemy. There are no chakras in alchemy.

 

You dont think the guys were working with subtle centers of energy? I think they were.

 

*edit* i do agree though, the assignments of metals, locatiosn, etc were different and of course they were not called 'chakras'

Edited March 24, 2015 by noonespecial

[noonespecial]

Too complicated already.

consider that the root of freedom is a quiet mind

the root of alchemy is as small as a spark making light in an empty room

and the way to see the road is by having clear eyes.

 

cool. i like that.

[FraterUFA]

You dont think the guys were working with subtle centers of energy? I think they were.

 

You think they were. But they weren't. You are mistaken.

 

The only way you could possibly come to such a conclusion is if your conception of alchemy came exclusively from modern authors. There is nothing in the old texts which supports such a view. This notion stems from the misguided efforts to decipher alchemy by overlaying Eastern practices upon it. 

 

Alchemy does not require the introduction of any outside system to explain it. This includes not only all Eastern systems, but also all Western ones as well (Tarot, Qabalah, Chemistry, etc). There are texts which incorporate astrological symbolism but from a practical standpoint, that appears to be largely unnecessary and seems to me to be largely confined to the later German schools. Alchemy stands alone.

 

Best,

UFA

[noonespecial]

You think they were. But they weren't. You are mistaken.

 

The only way you could possibly come to such a conclusion is if your conception of alchemy came exclusively from modern authors. There is nothing in the old texts which supports such a view. This notion stems from the misguided efforts to decipher alchemy by overlaying Eastern practices upon it. 

 

Alchemy does not require the introduction of any outside system to explain it. This includes not only all Eastern systems, but also all Western ones as well (Tarot, Qabalah, Chemistry, etc). There are texts which incorporate astrological symbolism but from a practical standpoint, that appears to be largely unnecessary and seems to me to be largely confined to the later German schools. Alchemy stands alone.

 

Best,

UFA

 

Indeed I have read many modern authors, Julius Evola, etc. Yet a cursory glance at Robert Fludd's (for example) work seems to speak toawards a similar process occuring. Can you make any recomendations, as a 'Frater' you must have some experience.

[noonespecial]

I put this out there for conversation and correction, so if any one would like to add or even be my guest and hi-jack the thread, please feel free!

[FraterUFA]

Indeed I have read many modern authors, Julius Evola, etc. Yet a cursory glance at Robert Fludd's (for example) work seems to speak toawards a similar process occuring. Can you make any recomendations, as a 'Frater' you must have some experience.

 

Start with AE Waite, "The Lives of the Alchemystical Philosophers". "The Fulcanelli Phenomenon" is also quite good.

 

Both books are accurate and Waite's in particular will repay careful study as he buries important clues in long passages of text where most will miss them.

 

UFA

[noonespecial]

Oh I've read Waites 'Lives' - cool. I will check out Fulcanelli Phenomenon! Thanks Frater.

 

*edit* ouch 60 bucks used for Fulcanelli Phenomenon, sounds like the real deal though.

Edited March 24, 2015 by noonespecial

[noonespecial]

Too complicated already.

consider that the root of freedom is a quiet mind

the root of alchemy is as small as a spark making light in an empty room

and the way to see the road is by having clear eyes.

 

Reminds me of this btw

 

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly [white] star lit from [the oil of] a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Light upon light. Allah guides to His light whom He wills. And Allah presents examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things.

 

Surat al-Nur

[Nungali]

For me, one of the prime principles of alchemy ( regardless whether one sees this in a modern light or traditional) is 'circulation'. 

 

Everything from the energies circulating ( evaporating and condensing -  'dissolving and coagulating' ) within the flask through to the hermetic concept of 'incarnating down through' the 'spheres' of the planetary 'orbits' and the 'trials' of 'rising back up' through them .... and in my astro- psychological tree model. 

 

ETA and I was going to link to a post I thought I made yesterday here outlining that system ... but I cant find it ... I did loose a long post here yesterday - maybe that was it ?  

Edited March 24, 2015 by Nungali

[noonespecial]

For me, one of the prime principles of alchemy ( regardless whether one sees this in a modern light or traditional) is 'circulation'. 

 

Everything from the energies circulating ( evaporating and condensing -  'dissolving and coagulating' ) within the flask through to the hermetic concept of 'incarnating down through' the 'spheres' of the planetary 'orbits' and the 'trials' of 'rising back up' through them .... and in my astro- psychological tree model. 

 

ETA and I was going to link to a post I thought I made yesterday here outlining that system ... but I cant find it ... I did loose a long post here yesterday - maybe that was it ?  

 

Absolutely. I recently tried an daoist system of circulation (as supposed to hindu/hermetic) and had excellent results, all the same centers seem to be opening, perhaps it was even a little 'smoother' of a ride due to the subtle differences in circulation routes.

[Nungali]

hence;

 

[noonespecial]

hence;

 

 

boo yow

[FraterUFA]

So I am going to comment in a bit more detail as the confusion of traditional western alchemical concepts with eastern ones irks me. If I can convince even one person to stop wasting their time trying to fuse the two, it will be time well spent. Note that nothing in this post violates any oath I may have taken and all of this can be readily found by studying the classic alchemical texts.

 

From a western perspective, circulation does not refer to a flow of energy but rather the extraction of information from substance through the release of energy, followed by the union of those three in a new form (AKA, "solve et coagula"). Stated another way, it is akin to a spin around the wheel, eg: a cycle of life and death. 

 

We look to see how nature operates and we try to not only accelerate it, but to bring it to greater perfection than is possible without Art. To do that, we must first return the life form to its First Matter, the Prima Materia... the Primal Mother. In other words, we subject the substance to death, under very controlled conditions.

 

When a creature dies, the old alchemists noted that something left it and escaped to the atmosphere. So when this process is contained within a flask, hermetically sealed, the death of that creature manifested as a separation into its components: a heavy impure material and a volatile impure material. 

 

Depending on the process and the material, the grosser material may contain what is typically known as earth, while the volatile fraction contains fire, air, and water (gross, corporeal water). The water is discarded. The fire is already pure. The air however, is impure. The air and fire purified together then are "spirit" and they are a medicine. 

 

The word, "medicine", should be taken literally. It is a spirit which will melt various things (including your equipment), yet doesn't harm your skin. Even in its impure state, it has very strong psychic effects which experienced even once put an end to much speculation about what alchemy is and is not. 

 

The earth is likewise purified and through various processes, becomes the salt of the spirit, or Sal Ammoniac, the pure, white volatilized salts. 

 

The Mercury and Sulphur are joined and "circulated"... that is, they are evolved through thousands of "lifetimes", all within the flask. This circulation further penetrates and purifies the substances, marrying them into a homogeneous substance which can withstand any fire and magnifying their effect. 

 

Though I have described the outer work (in a general manner), note that there are no chakras, no energy routes, no Taoism, no yoga. Not even in the Inner work.

 

None. Period.

 

UFA

[noonespecial]

So I am going to comment in a bit more detail as the confusion of traditional western alchemical concepts with eastern ones irks me. If I can convince even one person to stop wasting their time trying to fuse the two, it will be time well spent. Note that nothing in this post violates any oath I may have taken and all of this can be readily found by studying the classic alchemical texts.

 

From a western perspective, circulation does not refer to a flow of energy but rather the extraction of information from substance through the release of energy, followed by the union of those three in a new form (AKA, "solve et coagula"). Stated another way, it is akin to a spin around the wheel, eg: a cycle of life and death. 

 

We look to see how nature operates and we try to not only accelerate it, but to bring it to greater perfection than is possible without Art. To do that, we must first return the life form to its First Matter, the Prima Materia... the Primal Mother. In other words, we subject the substance to death, under very controlled conditions.

 

When a creature dies, the old alchemists noted that something left it and escaped to the atmosphere. So when this process is contained within a flask, hermetically sealed, the death of that creature manifested as a separation into its components: a heavy impure material and a volatile impure material. 

 

Depending on the process and the material, the grosser material may contain what is typically known as earth, while the volatile fraction contains fire, air, and water (gross, corporeal water). The water is discarded. The fire is already pure. The air however, is impure. The air and fire purified together then are "spirit" and they are a medicine. 

 

The word, "medicine", should be taken literally. It is a spirit which will melt various things (including your equipment), yet doesn't harm your skin. Even in its impure state, it has very strong psychic effects which experienced even once put an end to much speculation about what alchemy is and is not. 

 

The earth is likewise purified and through various processes, becomes the salt of the spirit, or Sal Ammoniac, the pure, white volatilized salts. 

 

The Mercury and Sulphur are joined and "circulated"... that is, they are evolved through thousands of "lifetimes", all within the flask. This circulation further penetrates and purifies the substances, marrying them into a homogeneous substance which can withstand any fire and magnifying their effect. 

 

Though I have described the outer work (in a general manner), note that there are no chakras, no energy routes, no Taoism, no yoga. Not even in the Inner work.

 

None. Period.

 

UFA

 

Thanks UFA. Very cool. So excuse my bluntness, but real alchemy as in the medieval type, was about trapping the life force of a 'thing' in athanors, to extract the air and fire from the gross, and basically using them as drugs, you mentioned the psychic effects on the alchemist of this process. Was this also what the Arab alchemists were doing?

 

*Edit* Indeed this reminds me of Paraclesus discourse on Gnomes, it's easy to 'psychologize' such things away, but surely when this process occurs, the operator somehow perceives actual gnomes and salamanders, etc - hence the link with invocation and things of that nature ?

Edited March 25, 2015 by noonespecial

[FraterUFA]

 

 

Thanks UFA. Very cool. So excuse my bluntness, but real alchemy as in the medieval type, was about trapping the life force of a 'thing' in athanors, to extract the air and fire from the gross, and basically using them as drugs, you mentioned the psychic effects on the alchemist of this process. Was this also what the Arab alchemists were doing?

It's not about trapping the life force at all. It is about accelerating the evolution of a being to manifest its Higher Genius. It is about the bringing forth of the white earth or paradise, here on earth ("hell", some would say). An alchemist is an agent of evolution, working on behalf of the universe.

 

An entity brought to this state will have a powerful evolutionary effect on those of the same kingdom. Man himself consists of the mineral, vegetable, and animal kingdoms. And so the consumption of a material brought to a higher state of perfection will have some impact on man's own body. This may indeed have a physical effect but that is really not the point. 

 

As an example, the nervous system is essentially an evolutionary outcome of the vegetable kingdom, so one would expect a vegetable elixir to have some effect in this area. And indeed, it does. I had a sports injury which severely affected my left leg for almost three years. This injury did not respond to massage or other therapy. Yet a few drops of the Primum Ens healed this injury in a very short time. That is nice, of course, but it is nothing in comparison to the spiritual effects of the same, which were immediate and obvious.

 

*Edit* Indeed this reminds me of Paraclesus discourse on Gnomes, it's easy to 'psychologize' such things away, but surely when this process occurs, the operator somehow perceives actual gnomes and salamanders, etc - hence the link with invocation and things of that nature ?

Yes, now you're getting it. Alchemy != Psychology. That confusion has its roots in the sickness which has overtaken modern man and has disconnected him from his roots. He sees the world as a machine, dismisses genuine spiritual phenomena as either psychology or that most superstitious of beliefs, "coincidence". 

 

The alchemist ultimately has no such false division and he works simultaneously with spirit and matter. Hence his practices sometimes deal with actual substances, things which can be held in the hand.

 

This may shed some light on an earlier thread in which I stated that the serpent in Genesis is an actual being, not mere symbolism.

 

Though I caution you, that you should judge what I say for yourself and take my words as a statement of what I currently believe and nothing more.

 

Best,

UFA

Edited March 25, 2015 by FraterUFA

[allinone]

this hour this idea is correct, that hour that idea is correct.

[allinone]

is the goal lightbody or we came here to mine gold?

[Michael Sternbach]

In Reality, there is no Alchemy. None. Period.

 

There is only Nature. Nature is One but because of the limitations of the human mind we need to divide it into many different levels and strands, which are in truth all intermingled with each other. Thus we have Alchemy, Astrology, Chemistry, Psychology, and all the other Sciences.

 

They each pertain only to a certain aspect of Nature, moreover only as seen from a certain time and place, in a specific cultural context. Equivalent systems in different cultures naturally overlap. Also, there are no rigid dividing lines between them and other systems (such as between Alchemy and Astrology).

 

All the valid traditions are indeed describing the same things from different perspectives. Often,  it is valuable to compare and, to a degree, merge different systems with each other because concepts and ideas found in several systems can confirm, reinforce, and supplement each other.

 

It should be well noted that all the occult sciences evolved over long periods of time, assimilating knowledge and insights from many sources - and they naturally continue to do so.

 

The earliest references to a system of human energy centers may be seen in the Aurora, written in 1612 by the alchemical mystic Jacob Boehme. Later, Johann Georg Gichtel illustrated Boehme's conception:

 

 

Personally, I prefer the following model which is actually based on Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos and also used in Vedic Astrology:

 

 

I will explain it in detail on request. Suffice it here to say that it ties in nicely with the thesis of a Lunar and a Solar Snake (Pinangala and Ida) winding themselves around the spine as the central channel (Sushumna) in the Hindu system, with the Chakras as their intersections. A concept that is reflected, btw, in an ancient symbol of utmost importance to Alchemy, the Wand of Hermes.

 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[noonespecial]

 

 

It's not about trapping the life force at all. It is about accelerating the evolution of a being to manifest its Higher Genius. It is about the bringing forth of the white earth or paradise, here on earth ("hell", some would say). An alchemist is an agent of evolution, working on behalf of the universe.

 

An entity brought to this state will have a powerful evolutionary effect on those of the same kingdom. Man himself consists of the mineral, vegetable, and animal kingdoms. And so the consumption of a material brought to a higher state of perfection will have some impact on man's own body. This may indeed have a physical effect but that is really not the point. 

 

As an example, the nervous system is essentially an evolutionary outcome of the vegetable kingdom, so one would expect a vegetable elixir to have some effect in this area. And indeed, it does. I had a sports injury which severely affected my left leg for almost three years. This injury did not respond to massage or other therapy. Yet a few drops of the Primum Ens healed this injury in a very short time. That is nice, of course, but it is nothing in comparison to the spiritual effects of the same, which were immediate and obvious.

Yes, now you're getting it. Alchemy != Psychology. That confusion has its roots in the sickness which has overtaken modern man and has disconnected him from his roots. He sees the world as a machine, dismisses genuine spiritual phenomena as either psychology or that most superstitious of beliefs, "coincidence". 

 

The alchemist ultimately has no such false division and he works simultaneously with spirit and matter. Hence his practices sometimes deal with actual substances, things which can be held in the hand.

 

This may shed some light on an earlier thread in which I stated that the serpent in Genesis is an actual being, not mere symbolism.

 

Though I caution you, that you should judge what I say for yourself and take my words as a statement of what I currently believe and nothing more.

 

Best,

UFA

 

This is great, it brings up so many diverse thoughts, everything from the implications of spermo-gnosticism, to genetic engineering, transhumanism, back to the true meaning of the goetia, etc. It also makes my OP seem to have more in common with the Golden Flower than anything in the European current, however it would be amiss for me to state that the spiritual practices do not effect the physical body, when the tinglings and influxes occur for the first time it is quite a shock, more so when they continue without any aid from the practitioner, combined with physical lab work I can see the implications of the art and even without the lab work the lines between spiritual and physical really do dissolve with continued labor, and indeed everything is One Thing, and our role is as co-creator, or as the Rumi so eloquently stated, keepers of the garden. Many, many thoughts. Either way thank you so much for sharing. 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Regarding the Chakras and the planets, I posted this awhile ago:
 

 

In the early eighties two works stimulated an interest in ancient arithmetic, one . . . (was) Oscar Marcel Hinze's Tantra Vidya.
. . .
 
To my surprise Tantra Vidya is still available:

http://www.amazon.com/Tantra-Vidya-Oscar-Marcel-Hinze/dp/8120805240

Hinze's Tantra Vidya consists of two fascinating essays, one a treatment of the Chakras related to these planetary periods and the other a discussion of the similarities between the Greek philosopher Parmenides and Tantric doctrines.

This is an extremely interesting book and analyses the Chakras from the perspective of the Planetary periods as found in Ptolemy.  It puts forward the "Chaldean" order of the Planets as found in Gichtel.

 

And yes, even though I said I would not be posting for while (Here, for those that missed it.), I will put in little bits like this from time to time.  I cannot enter into a detailed discussion at this time.

[Michael Sternbach]

Thank you Donald,

 

That book is definitely on my reading list now.

[noonespecial]

In Reality, there is no Alchemy. None. Period.

 

There is only Nature. Nature is One but because of the limitations of the human mind we need to divide it into many different levels and strands, which are in truth all intermingled with each other. Thus we have Alchemy, Astrology, Chemistry, Psychology, and all the other Sciences.

 

They each pertain only to a certain aspect of Nature, moreover only as seen from a certain time and place, in a specific cultural context. Equivalent systems in different cultures naturally overlap. Also, there are no rigid dividing lines between them and other systems (such as between Alchemy and Astrology).

 

All the valid traditions are indeed describing the same things from different perspectives. Often,  it is valuable to compare and, to a degree, merge different systems with each other because concepts and ideas found in several systems can confirm, reinforce, and supplement each other.

 

It should be well noted that all the occult sciences evolved over long periods of time, assimilating knowledge and insights from many sources - and they naturally continue to do so.

 

The earliest references to a system of human energy centers may be seen in the Aurora, written in 1612 by the alchemical mystic Jacob Boehme. Later, Johann Georg Gichtel illustrated Boehme's conception:

 

 

Personally, I prefer the following model which is actually based on Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos and also used in Vedic Astrology:

 

 

I will explain it in detail on request. Suffice it here to say that it ties in nicely with the thesis of a Lunar and a Solar Snake (Pinangala and Ida) winding themselves around the spine as the central channel (Sushumna) in the Hindu system, with the Chakras as their intersections. A concept that is reflected, btw, in a very important ancient symbol of utmost importance to Alchemy, the Wand of Hermes.

 

 

Awesome! Request made.