Illumination

[Aetherous]

Lets talk about this, if we can. Is this a primary goal of the occult? What does it entail? What disqualifies someone from being said to have attained this? Are there stages of this? Do Eastern traditions have a similar attainment? Or any other info.

 

[noonespecial]

I believe the goals & methods would vary from individual to individual?

[9th]

What is "the occult"?  What is "illumination"?

[Aetherous]

I believe the goals & methods would vary from individual to individual?

 

What is "the occult"?  What is "illumination"?

 

Yes, depending on what we're talking about in saying "the occult", the goals and methods would vary. One person's trash is another person's occult.

 

I was partly asking if illumination is a commonly known goal in many occult or esoteric circles. If we research the occult on google of all places, or the newage section of the local bookstore, we don't typically see it referenced as the main theme. But is it? The occult is hard to know, by definition.

 

To answer 9th plainly...the occult (I think) has to do with Western mysteries/magick high and low/esoteric methods and philosophies/and other similarly related topics. Occult basically means "hidden", so those things that most people don't won't or can't know.

 

What is illumination...well I don't really have any legitimate idea...only barely educated guesses. The word implies that it has to do with "light", and with a change in oneself that's related specifically to light.

 

When I saw it referenced the other day in another thread, the person was talking about how someone being illuminated could cause them to see or know all sorts of things that are atypical. For instance, seeing energy rather than just physical reality.

[9th]

Id generally say that most people become interested in the occult as a means to an end - as a way to get something done through alternative means.  Or they may be drawn to "power" or "hidden" knowledge for some reason or another. 

 

As far as your question about illumination - if you yourself do not have a specific idea of what it is, then it will be very difficult for you to receive an answer in the first place.  For example, someone could explain it in detail and you would miss it because you would not know what to look for.

 

That is why most esoteric traditions have a process of "initiation" which is considered an entrance into a new world altogether.  Real initiation involves what has been called "transmission", which is the direct transfer of knowledge or states of being.  The results may be immediate or not, but the effect is real and total - otherwise it is not an actual initiation but rather a fantasy or dream.  And while most real practitioners will have multiple initiations into more and more subtle realms  - the first initiation of this lifetime will be unique and significant in that sense.

 

Beyond initiation have been termed stages such as neophyte, adept, master - which are fairly good reference points.  At first you get your bearings, then you learn methods, then you perfect your own style.  In all stages, the initiations remain the real thing - it literally takes years, even decades to understand and unravel all the secrets contained in such an event.  The unfolding of the depths of understanding regarding your own personal initiation becomes your own personal illumination, which then bridges towards illumination of the universal.  In terms of occult practices, I must reiterate - it goes on and on, further and further... far beyond siddhis for their own sake.  In terms of public knowledge (in even the most obscure books), very little is known about the actual practice of what is called "magic"... and it cannot be another way... in the same way the sky cannot be red.  It could be... but its not.

[Nungali]

Lets talk about this, if we can. Is this a primary goal of the occult? What does it entail? What disqualifies someone from being said to have attained this? Are there stages of this? Do Eastern traditions have a similar attainment? Or any other info.

 

 

 

They would seem to go together ; what is occulted is 'hidden' or has passed behind, on 'in shadow', what is illumined is in the light. So it would seem to follow that if an occultist seeks to know about the occult then they seek illumination - in the general sense. 

 

Perhaps to be illumined is to have a perception that allows 'sight' of things normally hidden ? 

 

A   physicist can be illumined,   looking through a telescope can 'illuminate' one.

 

Then there is 'interior illumination'  insight and knowledge about the self, also  an 'interior illumination process' that seems to flood perception with extra light that carries the information of what we perceive (sorry , thats the only way I can describe the experience).   In days recently past, many a western occultist realised the effect hashish could have in 'illuminating' perceptions, bring out qualities in colour, trigger a type of synaesthesia, etc    (  ......" Ooooo   .... sparkly! " ) . 

 

 

 

 

Again , with the occult, it depends on the intent, those motivated by base desires will probably seek baser benefits. Insights into their nature may not be desired !

Edited March 29, 2015 by Nungali

[FraterUFA]

 

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by FraterUFA

[9th]

What does it entail? 

 

[9th]

Or any other info.

 

[noonespecial]

Groups that confine their cosmology/theory to the Corpus Hermetica and Fama will tell you the goal is simple, to become a conscious agent in the evolution of the One Thing, a Co-Creator with God - this entails the aspirant to be in line with the Good, and while some may call it occult apologia, the end goal must be to serve with God, to serve humanity and creation - to relinquish the mundane ego to the One Will. The reason why everyone's will is different is because everyone is at a different stage in their soul progression, there is no room here for losers that want to escape reality or get laid through 'teh magik'.

 

IMO things got complicated with Crowley, true will, HGA, while he had some good stuff, his overall doctrine seems to obstruct the simplicity of classic Hermetic thought

 

(edit: ie- just do the Work, live according to the four classical virtues, and assistance will be sent (as will tests), things will work out naturally without our stuffy little human will trying to strong-arm the the universe through barbarous words and incense, it's almost comedic in retrospect).

Edited March 31, 2015 by noonespecial

[Aetherous]

(edit: ie- just do the Work, live according to the four classical virtues, and assistance will be sent (as will tests), things will work out naturally without our stuffy little human will trying to strong-arm the the universe through barbarous words and incense, it's almost comedic in retrospect).

 

Very nice.

[9th]

(edit: ie- just do the Work, live according to the four classical virtues, and assistance will be sent (as will tests), things will work out naturally without our stuffy little human will trying to strong-arm the the universe through barbarous words and incense, it's almost comedic in retrospect).

 

Very nice.

 

Indeed.  Great minds think alike, as they say.

 

For instance, I posted that song since the title is the same as Frater's response to you above, and also that song is specifically about "illumination".  Most of the time I dont explain what I do, as I find it counterproductive.  I also dont really post lyrics much anymore but in this case I think it will be fun for old time's sake.  This is what we like to call "the short path".

 

There are no words that can describe

The joy I feel just in being alive

And when I look inside of me 

I see love, faith and fidelity

Within the dark night of the soul

There lies a hidden, warming glow

And if that glow were blue and white

Could you sleep dreamless through the night ?

But if that glow were red and black

Would you want your money back ?

 

It's hard enough, hard enough

Just to survive, just to be alive

madness, madness, madness and death

Respect, Humility, Respect

madness and death

 

All you see and all you know

Hangs from a stick before your nose

The bread of life, all that you wish

Is lying at your fingertips

If all you see is what you want

And what you see is what you get

Then cease your searching, low and high

Listen to my whispered lies

Ask for nothing

Close your eyes

 

It's hard enough, hard enough

Just to survive, just to be alive

SURPRISE !

Edited March 31, 2015 by 9th

[Aetherous]

Indeed.  Great minds think alike, as they say.

 

For instance, I posted that song since the title is the same as Frater's response to you above, and also that song is specifically about "illumination".  Most of the time I dont explain what I do, as I find it counterproductive.  I also dont really post lyrics much anymore but in this case I think it will be fun for old time's sake.  This is what we like to call "the short path".

 

Yeah I thought your posting of that song was brilliant.

[FraterUFA]

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by FraterUFA

[Spotless]

On a simple historical note - from a living fossil - I can say that not long ago if you were looking for a bookstore in the West that carried books on metaphysical subjects and Indian teachings and the like, you went to An Occult bookstore.

 

General bookstores did not sell these items or at best they sold a very few smattering here and there - they did not have "metaphysical" sections.

 

You would actually look up - "Occult Books" for the location of the nearest bookstore of this nature.

 

This only began to turn in the late 70s.

 

The bookstores would typically say Occult or Metaphysical somewhere outside on their shingle.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Spotless

[noonespecial]

The goal is simple, the means by which one chooses to ahcieve that goal are as complex as one chooses. Complexity in technique infers that only a book smart individual can achieve the unio mystica, the Pharisee. In theory one's passion, or will desire to know the Good can achieve the same results, this is the wisdom of the beggar. The greatest pitfall in the Work may be to fall into a state of spiritual elitism.

[FraterUFA]

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by FraterUFA

[noonespecial]

There is no fuss friend.

[noonespecial]

Sometimes this stuff just falls in your lap I'm tellin ya:

 

"This time you have really had the Gift of God; it is a great blessing and, for the first time, I understand how rare this favour is. Indeed, I believe that, in its unfathomable depth of simplicity, the arcanum cannot be found by the force of reason alone, however subtle and well trained it may be.

 

At last you possess the Treasure of Treasures. Let us give thanks to the Divine Light which made you a participant in it. Moreover, you have richly degrved it on account of your unshakable belief in Truth, the constancy of your effort, your perseverence in sacrifice and also, let us not forget your good works....

 

You know that the finest phrases, the most eloquent protestations, are not worth as much as the moving

simplicity of this single utterance: you are good, and it is for this great virtue that God has crowned you with the diadem of true royalty."

 

- Fulcanelli

 

Thanks for brining Fulcanelli to the convo Fr, this is precisely what I was attempting to convey.

 

 

Alas, this thread brings to mind one of my favorite quotes, Jesus, in The Dialogue of the Saviour is asked by his disciples, "Where is the place we shall go?" He replies, "The place which you can reach, stand there!"

 

Peace.

Edited April 1, 2015 by noonespecial

[FraterUFA]

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by FraterUFA

[noonespecial]

I agree and disagree. Have a blessed day UFA

Edited April 1, 2015 by noonespecial

[Nungali]

It starts as simple and ends as simple .....  but what lies on the path and in between the lines  ? 

 

Since we were playing lyrics before ;

 

" Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity.

Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.

Desperate to control all and everything.

Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.

 

Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.

Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end.

Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.

Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell.

 

Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again.

 

Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.

Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end.

Saturn ascends, comes round again.

Saturn ascends, the one, the ten. Ignorant to the damage done.

 

Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity.

Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.

Desperate to control all and everything.

Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.

 

Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control.

Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper.

 

Defining, confining, controlling, and we're sinking deeper.

 

Saturn comes back around to show you everything

Let's you choose what you will not see and then

Drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again

Spits you out like a child, light and innocent.

 

Saturn comes back around. Lifts you up like a child or

Drags you down like a stone

To consume you till you choose to let this go.

 

Give away the stone.

Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor.

Give away the stone.

Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.

Let go.

 

 

[FraterUFA]

Are there stages to illumination? Here is the first:

 

 

This emblem depicts the common man, buried in earth and overrun by the serpent. Now there are those who hold that the serpent in alchemy represents a mere energy and confuse it with those serpents depicted in Indian esotericism which represent Ida and Pingala. Nothing could be further from the truth, as an acquaintance with alchemical literature will show. There are hundreds of diagrams which depict the serpent in different ways and many of the accompanying texts support the thought that the serpent depicted in them is the same as the serpent found in the Old Testament.

 

But what of those stages? They are depicted in the following famous emblem. I have always found this to be a fascinating image. I was first acquainted with it in the early 90s, but its meaning had eluded me until just recently.

 

[FraterUFA]

I agree and disagree. Have a blessed day UFA

 

Fortunately, the Great Work will carry on without need of your agreement.

 

It may be helpful for those with more open and curious minds to read these words written by Fulcanelli (emphasis mine):

 

Nature does not open the door of the sanctuary indiscriminately to everyone.

 

In these pages, the uninitiated will perhaps discover some proof of a genuine and positive science. I do not, however, flatter myself that I shall convert them, for I know full well the obstinancy of prejudice and the great strength of preconceived opinions. The disciple will derive greater benefit from this book, provided always that he does not despise the works of the old Philosophers and that he studies with care and penetration the classical text, until he has acquired sufficient perception to understand the obscure points of the practice.

 

No one may aspire to possess the great secret, if he does not direct his life in accordance with the researches he has undertaken. It is not enough to be studious, active and persevering, if one has no firm principles, no solid basis, if immoderate enthusiasm blinds one to reason, if pride overrides judgment, if greed expands before the prospect of a golden future.

 

The mysterious science requires great precision, accuracy and perspicacity in observing the facts, a healthy, logical and reflective mind, a lively but not overexcitable imagination, a warm and pure heart. It also demands the greatest simplicity and complete indifference with regard to theories, systems and hypotheses, which are generally accepted without question on the testimony of books or the reputation of their authors. It requires candidates to think more with their own brains and less with those of others. 

 

UFA

[Nungali]

I am not sure what I make of these 22 'stages'  (with 7 actual transformations ), some seem clearer, some more obscure. Interesting  historical social and seasonal activities  are depicted in backgrounds as well. 

 

I am tempted to equate them with the 3 principles, 12 signs and 7 planets. 

 

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Splendor+Solis&espv=2&biw=1192&bih=550&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=7BAjVamnJoOk8QW-oYDwCA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ