Kunlun and Demons

[Taomeow]

and the increase in your own bliss potential is exponential unless you resist. Resistance is the key to your own growth and what has held you still for so long. The fastest way to get into resistance is to become fearful, but it's not the only way. Bliss is a bodily experience of an energy that rises from the alchemy and exists somewhere between this world and the next. It runs a range of frequency and so has many qualities. It is like a bride to Tao and because of the simplicity of the practice and quantity immediately available crossing over can happen at any time. Those most in resistance to Kunlun are well on their way. This is not Chi kung or any 'chi' practice. This is alchemy.

 

I would like for the challengers to present an exact description of the flaws they "see" in this alchemy?

 

you know, how "you" "see" energies are flowing and where and precisely why you believe it is wrong.

 

'see' being the optimum word. I am assuming the challengers can actually see the energy they find disagreement with?

Seeing is believing. I saw Max show a simple but tao-revealing gesture to illustrate what you're talking about, Winpro. He started spinning an index finger in the air and said, see, tao is spinning like that... and then he brought his other index finger into the "field" of "tao spinning" and boom -- it collides and is deflected. "Resistance." He showed the approach this way and that way and the other finger is thrown off. So then he started imitating what the first one is doing with the second one, spinning it in the same manner in the opposite direction. Brought them together, and they started spinning and dancing around each other, creating a sideways 8, a loop of immortality, as they go. Anyone can do that?.. Just two fingers not resisting each other's movement?.. If you can, you've arrived at a place where alchemy can start. If you can't, whatever you're doing is betraying your body and your subtle body, do something else.

[ShaktiMama]

and the increase in your own bliss potential is exponential unless you resist. Resistance is the key to your own growth and what has held you still for so long. The fastest way to get into resistance is to become fearful, but it's not the only way. Bliss is a bodily experience of an energy that rises from the alchemy and exists somewhere between this world and the next. It runs a range of frequency and so has many qualities. It is like a bride to Tao and because of the simplicity of the practice and quantity immediately available crossing over can happen at any time. Those most in resistance to Kunlun are well on their way. This is not Chi kung or any 'chi' practice. This is alchemy.

 

I would like for the challengers to present an exact description of the flaws they "see" in this alchemy?

 

you know, how "you" "see" energies are flowing and where and precisely why you believe it is wrong.

 

'see' being the optimum word. I am assuming the challengers can actually see the energy they find disagreement with?

 

well said.

 

if people did chi kung with the understanding of the three treasures of man...jing, chi, shen...then we cross over into alchemical processes rapidly. those who do or teach qigong or any chi practice without an awareness are just asking for deranged chi pathologies.

 

people who think yoga and chi kung are just exercise for long life and health...well....what can I say?

[Vajrasattva]

well said.

 

if people did chi kung with the understanding of the three treasures of man...jing, chi, shen...then we cross over into alchemical processes rapidly. those who do or teach qigong or any chi practice without an awareness are just asking for deranged chi pathologies.

 

people who think yoga and chi kung are just exercise for long life and health...well....what can I say?

 

 

JING CHI & SHEN combined = Kundalini

[Taomeow]

JING CHI & SHEN combined = Kundalini

actually, jing to chi to shen is kundalini, and shen to chi to jing is taoist alchemy...

Ice and cream combined produce ice floating in cream. Ice cream is made differently.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Taomeow

[Lucky7Strikes]

Seeing is believing. I saw Max show a simple but tao-revealing gesture to illustrate what you're talking about, Winpro. He started spinning an index finger in the air and said, see, tao is spinning like that... and then he brought his other index finger into the "field" of "tao spinning" and boom -- it collides and is deflected. "Resistance." He showed the approach this way and that way and the other finger is thrown off. So then he started imitating what the first one is doing with the second one, spinning it in the same manner in the opposite direction. Brought them together, and they started spinning and dancing around each other, creating a sideways 8, a loop of immortality, as they go. Anyone can do that?.. Just two fingers not resisting each other's movement?.. If you can, you've arrived at a place where alchemy can start. If you can't, whatever you're doing is betraying your body and your subtle body, do something else.

 

Free flowing Level 2!

 

I saw him do something similar with two sword fingers saying that it was another way of doing level 2, but this is supposed to come naturally to your body.

 

.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[effilang]

Ice and cream combined produce ice floating in cream. Ice cream is made differently.

 

_/\_

[Stigweard]

[Magitek]

.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Magitek

[Guest winpro07]

Kundalini exists as a very different kind of energy when exposed to the solvent. More gaseous than fiery -most friendly in nature

[New Dawn Fades]

I'm pretty sure we have a handle on your view.

 

Yes you do, you are very observant today. Gold star on forehead for you!

 

Whoever started the thread was either trolling for me or it was someone new looking for info about the 'other' side of the story, and I aimed to give them what they had coming. Without too much detail. I know your thinking "spare me the detail", well I feel the same way, gearing towards short attention spans always helps too.

 

Hopefully I miss some of these 'what is Kunlun' threads, if not it's just a sad coincidence.

Edited December 31, 2009 by New Dawn Fades

[Guest winpro07]

Edited December 31, 2009 by winpro07

[New Dawn Fades]

Any internal cultivation practice that contains any authentic process will begin to reveal the shadow of our subconscious and will introduce you to the realm of the astral. This is not specific to Kunlun. This is an expected constant for kundalini training for our students.

 

A decent teacher will help you get through it. Being part of a practice group will help take the crazy/scared feelings down.

 

This is not unusual and to be expected. Wonderful benefits on the other side of this.

No indication to stop your practice. Keep on playing!

Listen Shaktipants, answering complex moral issues with one liner slogans is unbecoming of those who aren't Republicans, do try to observe the bigger story. I'm not so sure that your approach to marketing is all that much different than Max's.

 

Step right up folks! Get you red hot shaktipat! Just sit at your computer and for chrisakes use some power of suggestion ... pay first, we donate to charities.

 

MAX N' KAP has a nice ring to it, MAX N KAP burgers folks, get yours cheap!

Edited December 31, 2009 by New Dawn Fades

[Stigweard]

the above is a later stage for most people.

 

The solvent comes first, then metal

 

The alchemy of the elements plays out at many levels and in many ways.

Interesting. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. I have started another topic:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=13064

[Owledge]

Hey... Kunlun Nei Gung! Think twice before letting yourself be practiced by humans. Humans are dangerous!

( It's the same philosophical question like with firearms. Are they dangerous? Depends on the user. So it all boils down to responsible use. It's all in you. Practices are mere tools. And without your intent to practice a technique correctly, it has no effect. Someone can force you to do Kundalini by threatening violence and nothing will happen. So is Kundalini dangerous or not?

I have a vague theory about why simpler techniques can be more powerful: Maybe because they have the support of advanced people who have realized that intent is all. Considering that some people have achieved a state of enlighenment without doing anything, techniques might be little more than help for your intent. Something to boost your faith in succeeding. Maybe a bit like a secret handshake.)

 

You should feel light, pure and awake after practice...if you feel the opposite in any way, then put it on the back burner for a while. It will only make it more powerful later...if you keep pushing through, it will keep the practice weak because it's draining you. Focus on dan tien breathing and a healthy lifestyle to recharge. Don't worry about the suggested hour of practice so much, if your symptoms aren't good. The book also says, "less is more." So just do the right amount.

I agree. I practice until it finishes by itself. At some point I feel like losing motivation. That feels very much like you said it: draining. Starts to require effort. Then I let it stop gently and go into closedown. Probably my body is still relatively weak, so I end up with 15 to 30 minutes a day for the whole procedure. There are exceptions though. When I feel a lot of warm, fuzzy love, contentment and well-being inside, I can practice almost without end. ( which for me translates into 1 1/2 hours. )

 

@New Dawn Fades

You seem to me to be still so much afraid or filled with worries. Also, when a Yogi says that Max did something bad to someone, on what basis do you see credibility in what that Yogi says? Considering how much positive has been said about Max and Kunlun by now (testimony), you must be very skeptical and careful, but these attributes seem to be missing when judging the people saying bad things about Max.

I more and more get the feeling that character is most important and that there are many gurus/masters in the world who might be very advanced in terms of abilities, but are actually at the beginning, because their personality is so screwed up. They might see a lot of scary things and most of them might be originating from themselves. They might tell others what they will see and what it means and not realizing that those things might appear totally different to others, because they are influenced by personal interpretation.

 

...

Unite your Jing with Shen.

Unite your Shen with Qi.

Then unite your Qi with the Primal Qi of the Universe.

...

To me (beginner) that sounds a bit like

1) Kunlun level 1 (mixing earth and heaven in the heart)

2) Kunlun level 2 or Red Phoenix (controlling the flow of Chi)

3) No Clue level 0 (Golden Flower maybe?)

 

@winpro07 (answering the post below):

When he posted the 'XY-'link and then didn't get the desired amount of feedback and then copy&pasted it into the thread, it became quite clear that he has a need for causing something unhealthy.

 

BY THE WAY... It's New Year's Eve! I'm sure you know the purpose of all the firecrackers, explosions, light, noise: to chase away bad spirits! What a wonderful time for a thread like this!

Edited January 3, 2010 by Hardyg

[Guest winpro07]

Stevie is attempting to start a fight. He feeds off anger and fear.

Please don't be bothered by him.

 

The same three have reappeared on this forum many time in the past two years.

 

They keep playing the same game and have posted many bogus statement.

 

Steve always attempts to rile, anger and then instill fear.....

 

ask your self why he needs your fear?

 

All beings can feed on the lower emotion of others, there is nothing more common.

 

Those who feed on fear are not here to help us

Edited December 31, 2009 by winpro07

[New Dawn Fades]

Oh go blow it out your arse, Winpro

 

Scotty, I have a question for you. Obviously, in the reach between spontaneous chi kung and formless chi kung. from the tragic to the beautiful, there is a spectrum of learned ability that influences it, so I would like to know what your definition is of spontaneous chi kung, and why you think it is harmful??

 

I would also like to hear from Ya Mu about how he defines spontaneous chi kung (if it is he that teaches it also).

 

Bring ear muffs to the fireworks.

Edited December 31, 2009 by New Dawn Fades

[Yoda]

Facing demons based path of enlightenment is certainly popular.

 

Here's Aleister Crowley's take for example:

 

Adeptus Exemptus chooses to cross the Abyss, which is the location of Choronzon and the illusory eleventh Sephira, which is Da'ath or Knowledge. In this example, the adept must surrender all, including the guidance of his Holy Guardian Angel, and leap into the Abyss. If his accumulated Karma is sufficient, and if he has been utterly thorough in his own self-destruction, he becomes a "babe of the abyss," arising as a Star in the Crowleyan system.

On the other hand, if he retains some fragment of ego, or if he fears to cross, he then becomes encysted. The layers of his self, which he could have shed in the Abyss, ossify around him... who will eventually be broken up and disintegrated against his will, since he failed to choose voluntary disintegration.

 

So did Aleister just become enlightened there or did he more fully surrender to the influences of his Holy Guardian Angel who was a bad dude? Judging by Aleister's personal life, one has to wonder.

 

The best way to judge Max's path is to look at Max's photo for awhile and to vibe out whether we want to be like him or not.

[ralis]

Facing demons based path of enlightenment is certainly popular.

 

Here's Aleister Crowley's take for example:

 

Adeptus Exemptus chooses to cross the Abyss, which is the location of Choronzon and the illusory eleventh Sephira, which is Da'ath or Knowledge. In this example, the adept must surrender all, including the guidance of his Holy Guardian Angel, and leap into the Abyss. If his accumulated Karma is sufficient, and if he has been utterly thorough in his own self-destruction, he becomes a "babe of the abyss," arising as a Star in the Crowleyan system.

On the other hand, if he retains some fragment of ego, or if he fears to cross, he then becomes encysted. The layers of his self, which he could have shed in the Abyss, ossify around him... who will eventually be broken up and disintegrated against his will, since he failed to choose voluntary disintegration.

 

So did Aleister just become enlightened there or did he more fully surrender to the influences of his Holy Guardian Angel who was a bad dude? Judging by Aleister's personal life, one has to wonder.

 

The best way to judge Max's path is to look at Max's photo for awhile and to vibe out whether we want to be like him or not.

 

If I go to a teacher to take teachings, I certainly am not interested in mimicking that teachers personality. That is missing the point.

 

ralis

[Stigweard]

If I go to a teacher to take teachings, I certainly am not interested in mimicking that teachers personality. That is missing the point.

 

ralis

I disagree on the grounds that, seeing virtue is the foundation teaching IMO, the expression of their De would be of principle concern for me.

[hagar]

Hi Hagar... I'm assuming you're talking to me and not New Dawn. Yes I am in Boise, ID...

 

Yup, sorry.

 

Have many fond memories from Boise.

 

Thank you for an interesting post

 

h

[ralis]

I disagree on the grounds that, seeing virtue is the foundation teaching IMO, the expression of their De would be of principle concern for me.

 

De?

 

ralis

[ShaktiMama]

Listen Shaktipants, answering complex moral issues with one liner slogans is unbecoming of those who aren't Republicans, do try to observe the bigger story. I'm not so sure that your approach to marketing is all that much different than Max's.

 

Step right up folks! Get you red hot shaktipat! Just sit at your computer and for chrisakes use some power of suggestion ... pay first, we donate to charities.

 

MAX N' KAP has a nice ring to it, MAX N KAP burgers folks, get yours cheap!

 

jeez, who put sand in your vaseline today?

 

being the onery old man who sits on the porch and yells at the young'uns...is that your schtick? you remind me of my father and the way he handles problems... god knows he loves and cares for me but he sure can be unlovely in how he expresses it...

[Stigweard]

[Aetherous]

Steve,

 

The most harmful thing is to hold a position that unbalances the muscles of the spine, and to "let go into movement"...especially if it becomes erratic and wild movement! If someone does that, then the tissues are being reprogrammed on a very deep level to be out of balance, and they're probably causing subtle tearing in areas that don't have good circulation only in one half of the body. Not good at all. These are just the physical manifestations of such a practice...the effects are always far reaching, since everything is connected.

 

Other than that, in my experience I just didn't have beneficial effects from "spontaneous" movement, even in the Shuichuan system (which doesn't involve holding a specific position). It opened me up (as any relaxed movement will do...and feeling that you're being spontaneously moved is VERY relaxing), but the energy wasn't being usefully utilized. So I don't see the point in practicing it. Having been through some tough spots, I don't see the point in advocating it for anyone else. Truly not worth it in my experience.

 

I view super subtle movements that are TOTALLY out of one's control, as fine. I think most people who practice anything get it, even if they only do something like sitting meditation. It indicates that there is a blockage being worked on. It's not like you have a choice in the matter to control it, so there's nothing you can do except favor external stillness. Smiling bigger helps alleviate this when it's happening.

 

What most consider "spontaneous" is actually influenced strongly by the same type of mind which is involved in dreaming...the symbolic mind...so after a while the flopping around turns into what should be best called "dream movements". It seems likely to me that this is how all of the spiritual-energetic paths came about: from shamans being moved in this way (by their subconscious), and systematizing the useful movements (healing, protective, etc).

 

But it's important to keep in mind that if you're doing this, you're manifesting your deep mind (with all of your issues and imperfections) directly into the flesh; your tissues being programmed by your deep mind. Not healthy! Instead of becoming like this, taking on sickness and dealing with the dark side of the mind, we should only use what's useful to our goals.

 

This is just my personal opinion. Here's an an excerpt which I stumbled upon once, that I loved, from Basic Magick by Philip Cooper...

 

On Devils, Demons and other Astral Entities...

 

"Despite the unfounded ramblings of pseudo-magical practitioners, let me categorically state that, in reality, there are no such beings, and they certainly do not exist outside yourself. At this point, you may be experiencing something of a letdown. Am I saying that angels, demons, goddesses, and gods of old are only figments of the individual's imagination? Certainly not! The gods are real, and their power is awesome. Magical trances or altered states of consciousness are the key to entering their kingdom, the Olam Yetzirah, or the Astral Plane, of which more will be said later on. Images and visions of spirits are actually archetypes evoked from the deep-mind via magical trance, are an important part of magical technique, especially the personal images, or visions, such as archangels, and so on. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you are seeking to bring good into your life, you use beneficial images such as (realistic) gods and angels. If you are concerned with ridding yourself of unwanted evils, then you personify these as demons and such. These are advanced techniques best reserved for more advanced magical work. Unfortunately a little knowledge can often be a dangerous thing in the hands of fools who imitate, but do not fully understand, these images. "

 

So did Aleister just become enlightened there or did he more fully surrender to the influences of his Holy Guardian Angel who was a bad dude? Judging by Aleister's personal life, one has to wonder.

 

Unless a person is enlightened, it's unlikely they will know about their own attainment. It's way too easy to kid yourself. As hard as it can be to judge your own attainment, it's even less likely for others to judge it, especially if they're strangers and haven't been paying attention to your every step...even even more especially if they aren't enlightened themselves. You can't tell. If Crowley was enlightened and chose to act deviously, then that is just his choice. I don't personally believe it's a good choice for anyone, ever. I agree with Stigwerd that virtue is the foundation teaching...it should be considered more important than any practice or attainment. If someone is highly attained, yet they are cruel to others, then what's the point? When you're enlightened, you still live in this world...why make it a bad world?

 

It's best to not consider anyone else as being enlightened. It shouldn't matter to you. Your life is yours, and theirs is theirs...you won't be able to attain your own enlightenment by worshiping theirs. They are human just like you. And even if they're nearly perfectly good, you are still prone to being hurt by them, by putting your absolute trust in them. So focusing on teachers is pointless...it's a sure way to be let down...AKA to learn a good lesson the hard way.

 

Teachers are only there to provide the practices, philosophy and guidance for your safety and efficiency.

[Taomeow]

Love this post! I was just thinking about this. Care to expand on the taoist alchemy part?

Thank you.

 

The central concern of taoism is time. Much the way western sciences and Indo-European religions and philosophies alike have become proficient in studying and manipulating space, taoism dedicated its main efforts to studying and manipulating time. (Please nobody come back with any no-space no-time all-is-one advaita whacks on the head with scrolls of sutras, I don't discuss these subjects with houtian-based temporal beings. )

 

So where you find spacially based ideas of development ('evolving') in Indo-European practices (pyramid-like, fire-like, upward-mobile, "ascention"-oriented, from the "lower" to the "higher," from earth to heaven, from root chakra to crown chakra, from "lower" to "higher" vibrations, etc. etc. ad infinitum), you find temporally based ideas of development in taoist practices (flowing-water-like, loopy, "to and fro goes the Way," cyclical, "the way of tao is return," from Conception to Growth to Fruition to Consummation back to Conception, etc., from the "earlier" to the "later" -- as in Earlier Heaven and Later Heaven -- and back, from wuji to taiji to bagua to the 64 hexagrams of which No. 63 is called "already accomplished" but No.64 following it is called "not yet accomplished!")

 

All Indo-European ones (whether religious, philosophical or scientific in their application of these spacial concerns) can be viewed as one system because they all follow the same paradigm. All East Asian ones originating in Chinese taoism can also be viewed as one system, a different one, because they all follow the same temporal paradigm. And then there's the crosses-between, e.g. zen or Tibetan dzogchen which partake of both Indo-European -- buddhist -- and East Asian -- taoist -- input.

 

So, practical methods used by each of these two major post-shamanic systems will differ accordingly. To understand taoist alchemy, one has to understand this crucial space-derived vs. time-derived set of concerns first, otherwise the tools for assessing the goals of the practice in context won't be there from the start and one will wind up not actually knowing, despite "believing something about," what it is she is in fact practicing and why. Wait, my cat is eating my New Year's cake, gotta run rescue it... later...