Kunlun and Demons

[Magitek]

.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Magitek

[ralis]

I still want to know the difference between SQ and Kunlun.

 

ralis

[Gjeken]

Edited January 22, 2010 by Gjeken

[Aetherous]

Ralis, Steve, and Ape...

 

I'm not going to speak for the Kunlun community or Max. I only speak for the way I was taught and what I share with others. I will say no more about specifics, because it's irrelevant except to anyone who learns from me directly, or whoever senses truth in what I've said here.

 

I don't mind if people are scared away from the practice. I don't care about the image of Kunlun or Max. Don't want to convert people. The marketing campaign is over. It's not meant for the public...most don't care about this stuff. I'm happy practicing on my own, and sharing personally with those who step up to the plate.

 

This is my way.

 

Trunk,

 

Please don't let it ruin our repoire, potential or otherwise.

 

Oh my bad, it seemed pretty much directed right at me. I don't have a problem with you, Trunk...much respect actually.

 

Peace.

[Inedible]

The thing about Kunlun that I like so much is that I seem to respond to it really quickly, and the level 3 description makes me think of the sort of things that are experienced in practicing Dzogchen. It seems like if I would just do it consistently I could save myself decades and end up in the same place. The problem is that I also have the feeling (from what I've read here) that Kunlun is at best useless and at worst dangerous. I've had several feelings about the practice, too, that just seem to tell me to stay away. Recently, though, I've started having the feeling that maybe it would be good to try playing with it again and maybe even do it seriously for a while. Reading this thread actually, has contributed to increasing that feeling that maybe I should give it a fair run and see what happens.

[ralis]

Ralis, Steve, and Ape...

 

I'm not going to speak for the Kunlun community or Max. I only speak for the way I was taught and what I share with others. I will say no more about specifics, because it's irrelevant except to anyone who learns from me directly, or whoever senses truth in what I've said here.

 

I don't mind if people are scared away from the practice. I don't care about the image of Kunlun or Max. Don't want to convert people. The marketing campaign is over. It's not meant for the public...most don't care about this stuff. I'm happy practicing on my own, and sharing personally with those who step up to the plate.

 

This is my way.

 

Trunk,

Oh my bad, it seemed pretty much directed right at me. I don't have a problem with you, Trunk...much respect actually.

 

Peace.

 

All I wanted to know was why SQ was not Kunlun. The Kunlun book is arriving next and maybe that will give me some answers?

 

ralis

[fiveelementtao]

Gjeken, Inedible and others who have emailed me... Kunlun is a safe practice. However, it is VERY powerful. If anyone who has practiced kunlun stopped because the practice was becoming overwhelming, I have some suggestions to help.

 

1st) If you have the Kunlun book, practice the Five Element Standing postures. If you are a kunlunie and don't have the book, get it... Those Five postures are extremely important. They will strengthen your nervous system, balance your internal organs and prepare your spirit for the more advanced Mao Shan techniques. ( RP and Yi Gong)

 

2nd) Do the Golden flower meditations. Originally, (or so I've heard, check with Max for confirmation) these meditations were done for one year at a time for each dan tien (or maybe it was Three...) Work on the Lower Dan Tien posture and meditation for awhile to help ground you.

 

3rd) The Yi Gong (spontaneous) exercise is very healing, purifying and powerful. However, it is imperative that one have a healthy respect for the technique and not use it as just a way to get high or "bliss out." the bliss is not a drug. If someone abuses the practice in an attempt to escape feelings, the practice will have a backlash effect, because the whole point of the exercise is to help you become more conscious. So, if someone is using it to escape, (unconscious) they are in effect at cross purposes with themselves. So, if you are worried because you have felt overwhelmed by the practice, then simply reduce the time you practice the spontaneous (Yi Gong) and INCREASE the amount of time you practice the postures and golden flower.

 

4) After using the postures and golden flower to strengthen, ground and prepare your nervous system and psyche, then ( when you feel ready) you can reintroduce the Yi Gong and RP in small doses. As you become stronger, you can increase the time in the advanced techniques. During times of rapid growth, slow down or take a break.

 

But also know that part of the process is to work through the emotional and psychological issues that come up. This should be understood beforehand. No one should attempt this practice if they do not understand that this process will clean you out. If you are not ready for it, don't do it. If you are looking for instant enlightenement, don't do it. if you are looking for powers, don't do it.

 

So, I also recommend that you work with a counselor or spiritual advisor on a regular basis... This is essential.

 

I have been practicing Mao Shan for almost 20 years and I speak with a counselor or spiritual advisor at least twice a month. More if I have a growth episode...

 

The more advanced techniques, (RP and Yi Gong) have become the focus of Kunlun but they are only part of the whole system. But remember there was a reason these things were kept secret.

 

Here is a portion of a thread from Max's forum

 

(me) I get the feeling sometimes that some kunlunies take some of Max's teachings for granted and treat them as optional "fun" stuff and focus only on spontaneous and RP. The other exercises Max teaches are also very important and IME, if you want to really advance, you need them.

The standing posture exercises balance you energetically, physically and emotionally. They also strengthen the body and nervous system to be able to handle the power of the other stuff. So, if you are feeling imbalanced or if Spontaneous or RP is giving you problems, ground yourself with the standing postures... Max can be very soft spoken and humble sometimes and it is easy to dismiss what he is saying, but he knows ALOT of stuff, so if he includes a practice in his teaching... it is because he feels it is important.

 

(Max) My kungfu brother fiveelementtao understands the art since we are from the same tradition I am very simple in my ways of teaching the five elements ground the energy of the kunlun which is guided by the red Phoenix

 

The golden flower refines the accumulated energy of the three ones or three dantiens then the ijong posture brings us into stability leading into emptiness the body mind and spirit united through blissful awakening leading to tao through the emptying of the emptiness

 

fun attitude is a skill of being light yet firm expansive in heart and quiet in mind

 

My blessings to all.

Mike

Edited December 31, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[ralis]

Gjeken, Inedible and others who have emailed me... Kunlun is a safe practice. However, it is VERY powerful. If anyone who has practiced kunlun stopped because the practice was becoming overwhelming, I have some suggestions to help.

 

1st) If you have the Kunlun book, practice the Five Element Standing postures. If you are a kunlunie and don't have the book, get it... Those Five postures are extremely important. They will strengthen your nervous system, balance your internal organs and prepare your spirit for the more advanced Mao Shan techniques. ( RP and Yi Gong)

 

2nd) Do the Golden flower meditations. Originally, (or so I've heard, check with Max for confirmation) these meditations were done for one year at a time for each dan tien (or maybe it was Three...) Work on the Lower Dan Tien posture and meditation for awhile to help ground you.

 

3rd) The Yi Gong (spontaneous) exercise is very healing, purifying and powerful. However, it is imperative that one have a healthy respect for the technique and not use it as just a way to get high or "bliss out." the bliss is not a drug. If someone abuses the practice in an attempt to escape feelings, the practice will have a backlash effect, because the whole point of the exercise is to help you become more conscious. So, if someone is using it to escape, (unconscious) they are in effect at cross purposes with themselves. So, if you are worried because you have felt overwhelmed by the practice, then simply reduce the time you practice the spontaneous (Yi Gong) and INCREASE the amount of time you practice the postures and golden flower.

 

4) After using the postures and golden flower to strengthen, ground and prepare your nervous system and psyche, then ( when you feel ready) you can reintroduce the Yi Gong and RP in small doses. As you become stronger, you can increase the time in the advanced techniques. During times of rapid growth, slow down or take a break.

 

But also know that part of the process is to work through the emotional and psychological issues that come up. This should be understood beforehand. No one should attempt this practice if they do not understand that this process will clean you out. If you are not ready for it, don't do it. If you are looking for instant enlightenement, don't do it. if you are looking for powers, don't do it.

 

So, I also recommend that you work with a counselor or spiritual advisor on a regular basis... This is essential.

 

I have been practicing Mao Shan for almost 20 years and I speak with a counselor or spiritual advisor at least twice a month. More if I have a growth episode...

 

The more advanced techniques, (RP and Yi Gong) have become the focus of Kunlun but they are only part of the whole system. But remember there was a reason these things were kept secret.

 

Here is a portion of a thread from Max's forum

My blessings to all.

Mike

 

 

Thanks for the explanation.

 

ralis

[effilang]

Thank you for your recent posts fiveelementtao,

 

They have been greatly informative and very reassuring, inspiring.

Very much appreciated. _/\_

 

-------------

Blessings to Everybody

 

I declare unto you that your appointment with failure, disappointment, ill-luck, ill-health and untimely death has been terminated with immediate effect. You are hereby appointed as the permanent ambassador of divine blessing, breakthrough, prosperity, good health and long life.

[Aetherous]

PM'd ralis on why I personally don't think Kunlun should be considered Spontaneous Qigong.

 

...

 

"Kunlun is a safe practice"...yes, sort of. In my experience, it can be damaging if you practice wrong. This is called an art for a reason - because you have to do it skillfully.

 

"If you steep your tea too long, it becomes bitter."

 

Pay close attention to the details of the instruction in the book. Spiraling at the waist is veeeeerrrrrrry important, as is being well hydrated.

 

If you start noticing any negative symptoms, then take it easy! Breaks from practice are totally good. Don't deny your symptoms, and try to push through. You should feel light, pure and awake after practice...if you feel the opposite in any way, then put it on the back burner for a while. It will only make it more powerful later...if you keep pushing through, it will keep the practice weak because it's draining you. Focus on dan tien breathing and a healthy lifestyle to recharge. Don't worry about the suggested hour of practice so much, if your symptoms aren't good. The book also says, "less is more." So just do the right amount.

 

This is my opinion and the way I choose to do things, taken from what I was taught and my experience. To each their own, regarding their own way of practicing.

 

Please only regard what I've said as suggestions, for your consideration, from a fellow practitioner.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Scotty

[Spirit Ape]

What have you attained from level 2 or have you attained Golden dragon?

 

Good going scotty...

[ToL]

Whatever practice you do, seek for balance between heaven and earth.

Have a good ground and be open to the sky, grounding is always important,

for some it can sound boring and will seek only bliss and try to escape, it's not about that,

go through your stuff, be they appear as demons, angels, always have a good grounding because the better the ground, the better you will be able to deal with your stuff and also to absorb more.

That's just my simple experience, and i'm telling you as one who at first didn't pay attention too much to grounding, you'll get stuck in your practice or just feel high or get attached to things.

Be your own grounding, don't find it outside.

fiveelementtao and scotty gave very good examples, thank you.

Edited December 31, 2009 by ToL

[New Dawn Fades]

All I wanted to know was why SQ was not Kunlun. The Kunlun book is arriving next and maybe that will give me some answers?

 

Sorry to be the bearer again, but it is said that the book contains a transmission from Max, and I received an email from someone who said that he began to have bad experiences when practicing from the book. I won't go into detail but it's similar to things already posted about negative effects spelled out at the top of page three. when this person wen t to India to visit with a yogi the yogi saw that black cloud by his head, realized it was connected to his problems from his new practice, and advised him to stop immeditately. So, the book is also suspect =)

 

I still want to know the difference between SQ and Kunlun.

 

I don't know what Kunlun is supposed to be, but I know some nei kung. Kunlun is supposed to be nei kung, isn't it? I always thought of nei kung being entire systems and not just a couple of exercises. anyway you can pick some exercises (postures) that if people hold long enough can cause some potential freak outs, which could easily lead into what is spontaneous chi kung.

 

Now, when I see this thing they call spontaneous chi kung it looks just like the kind of spastic flopping around, falling down, and flopping around on the floor that people do during spirit possession episodes in Voodoo or in Holy Roller rituals. In other words, this is the thing you see that is either caused by spirit possession or is a sort of invitation to spirit possession, which blends perfectly with having just been zapped with some foreign spirit energy. I'm not sure this is happening, I'm just saying how it looks to me, telling what may be, putting 2 + 2 together with some common observations and information about this deal. It seems to me that if you were going to inoculate someone with bad energy then having them do the flopping possession dance might help glue the connection to the new host.

 

Now I think it is Ya Mu who says that his teaching incorporates a kind of spontaneous chi kung, and I feel he is a good person. So this leads me to believe that the negatives brought up by this spirit possession dance could be dealt with by a good teacher person who is there for his students (not just there for the crowded seminar and then off to the next city.), I am also certain that Ya Mu does not have any demon connections and that any energy he might give to his students is helpful.

 

There is a goal of arriving at the formless with nei kung, but as it says in the tai chi classics one must first study the forms to arrive at the formless. Spontaneous chi kung is NOT formless chi kung. Formless chi kung can only be done by those who already know the ten thousand ways there are to move and have committed them to body memory, and they produce a very slow motion exotic dance of utmost surreal otherworldly beauty, the dance of the Taoist sorcerer, not spastic flopping around on the floor. Maybe some day the public will get to see it.

[rodgerj]

Edited March 22, 2010 by rodgerj

[New Dawn Fades]

Thanks for the info, yes I did mention the first practice was not a description of Max in the original post with the link, it was included because of the apparent similarity of both the actions of the teacher and of the results that some get. I'm afraid I don't know anything about Mr. Wong, but I've heard the name.

 

I had a rough patch with the training but I persevered through it. It was worth it.

 

That's good, what came of the discussion in Mak's forum?

 

I also hope that what I perceived as low energy in Scotty is more from a greater sense of peace rather than low energy. That's a much better avatar Scotty.

 

Beware of the grumpy old man syndrome and what it means.

Edited December 31, 2009 by New Dawn Fades

[zhoupeng]

Yes I know who wrote that as well Steve. Just so you are aware, the first account is nothing to do with Kunlun. It was written originally by Ahmed on the Mak Tin Si forum (before being copied and pasted by someone else) and he is talking about Wong Kiew Kit.

 

I had a rough patch with the training but I persevered through it. It was worth it.

 

I have some experience with Wong Kiew Kit's spontaneous qigong practices and when I saw this I thought I would chip in.

 

Firstly, I have not attended his seminars but the practice as described in his instructionals is nothing like the Kunlun exercises. The technology used to achieve a spontaneous state is arrived at via regular moving or still qigong practices that get the qi flowing in the body. This is caused by relaxing, maintaining postural requirements, regulating the mind and breathing and NOT by some outside force. After sufficient Qi flow is generated in the body through these Qigong in a session, the next step is to relax in to it further and consciously allow the qi to move your body wherever it will in order that it will help you overcome your blockages. So you will end up swaying about, stumbling around, contorting your body and making noises with your breathing while in this 'spontaneous' state as your body works with its own Qi to break down the areas that are blocked. You are 100% conscious throughout and completely aware of what you are doing. You also have the ability to retain control and stop at any time.

 

After practice I felt relaxed and fresh, not the least bit drained.

 

To be honest I was quite shocked that Wong Kiew Kit's name was mentioned as when I first read about the 'practice X' in the original post I thought it was highly disturbing and couldn't for the life of me link it to anything I have experienced with Wong Kiew Kit's material.

 

I am sure there must be some misunderstanding here.

[Lucky7Strikes]

.....

Edited December 31, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[Mal]

I'm not sure what the practice is, but I think the person who has taught is is the devil, his friend a liar, and the practice possesses people's souls because it just looks like people flip around and act crazy. But let me just re state that this is just what it looks like. Not making any sweeping judgments here. I'm not sure what it is.

 

ROFL

 

Steve (AKA New Dawn Fades) do we really have to rehash all this kunlun stuff again? I'm pretty sure we have a handle on your view. Personally I like kunlun and continue to give the book to people as it's one of the few practices from a book that can actually do something. But like all tools if you don't follow the instruction you could hurt yourself.

[joeblast]

Thanks for the info, yes I did mention the first practice was not a description of Max in the original post with the link, it was included because of the apparent similarity of both the actions of the teacher and of the results that some get. I'm afraid I don't know anything about Mr. Wong, but I've heard the name.

That's good, what came of the discussion in Mak's forum?

 

I also hope that what I perceived as low energy in Scotty is more from a greater sense of peace rather than low energy. That's a much better avatar Scotty.

 

Beware of the grumpy old man syndrome and what it means.

I've been friends with Scott for a few years now, and its absolutely a greater sense of peace. Similar and on a greater scale it seems, so is Cam

 

Much of the controversy with regards to kunlun has simply been people having little or no real information or experience just propagating hearsay - the classic "I dont practice, havent been to a seminar, but boy does this do bad stuff to you...or so I've heard..."

[Yoda]

Another pass through K-ville!

 

For anyone new to the debate and particularly studious, definitely look up the Kunlun follow up poll and the sex with entities threads.

 

New twist: Rodgerj is in the house!

 

Rodgerj and I went through parallel meltdowns about Kunlun but Rodgerj went back to spontaneous qigong and I went on to study with Mak Tin Si. Rodgerj has lots of great K experiences and is a very advanced K practitioner so would be a good source of information if he feels open about sharing it at some point and is a great guy. Amongst the pro-K people who are willing to share their experiences, he is quite possibly the most advanced.

 

To my mind, the benefit of spontaneous qigong practices is that it is super fast developing the subtle body rapidly and puts one in touch with guardian angels/spirits/etc which enables one to learn new practices and concepts as needed. The problem being that these friends are super high level practitioners are subtly stealing positive energies while teaching whatever it is that the practitioner wants to learn. So the K practitioner learns how to do all sorts of nice siddhis and realize lots of happy insights but it's all Faust in the end.

 

To my mind, the downside is unavoidable.

 

Others, like the writer of "Aghora, Left Hand Path of God" claim that a long term positive outcome can be attained through left hand means but that the path is extremely dangerous and not appropriate for most practitioners.

 

Yoda

[ShaktiMama]

Any internal cultivation practice that contains any authentic process will begin to reveal the shadow of our subconscious and will introduce you to the realm of the astral. This is not specific to Kunlun. This is an expected constant for kundalini training for our students.

 

A decent teacher will help you get through it. Being part of a practice group will help take the crazy/scared feelings down.

 

This is not unusual and to be expected. Wonderful benefits on the other side of this.

No indication to stop your practice. Keep on playing!

[topflight]

I practiced Kunlun for about a year and found out that the 5 elements standing postures were essential for stability. It ended up being about 1/3 of my practice time.

 

There were a number of reasons I moved on to a different practice, but one was that there was no satisfactory explanation why things worked as they did and why people had the effects they did. It is good now to finally learn some more about what I was doing in this thread.

 

 

I have written at length about this issue in another thread. I will try to get to the point succinctly. As a child, I suffered from demonic oppression. As a result, I am an exorcist. I have over 30 years experience dealing with nasties. I am also a kunlun practitioner and I also practice Mao Shan Shamanic Demon Fighting Kung Fu which is from the same lineage as Kunlun. I am also in the same Mao Shan Lineage as Max, the founder of Kunlun. So, I believe I have a very good idea of what is happening here... Here is my opinion based on my experience with Mao Shan, Kunlun and fighting demons....

 

(ahem)...There are both internal and external demons. They are both real. However, they all have one thing in common. They are connected to our unresolved personal unconscious fears and issues. It is impossible for anyone who aggressively faces and releases their unconscious/subconscious emotional issues to be harmed by demons ( internal or external). Humans are an expression of the highest form of spiritual energy and if we are successfully practicing a spiritual path that emphasizes honest self examination, you are completely protected. Demons will run from anyone who is unafraid to face all their issues. If someone has demon problems, there is no escaping the real cause. unresolved emotional and psychological issues create holes in our aura. Now we all have unresolved issues on some level. So, I do not mean the average run of the mill unresolved issues. I am talking about issues that are aggressively denied and buried... These are issues that someone has buried deep within their psyche for many years, possibly from early childhood. The Universe is constantly pushing us to face our issues. This is our Karma. We have incarnated on this planet to deal with these issues. If we continue to choose to bury our fears, desires, anger, pain etc... This sends out an energetic frequency that acts like a homing beacon to nasties. External demons are similar to our unconscious emotional issues, because demons are spirits that have chosen not face the Light of Spirit. As such, they are cut off from the Source and need energy. So, when a human has serious unresolved issues, they are unconsciously seeking someone or something to relieve them of their burden. If a demon who resonates with this unresolved issue, (i.e. fear, anger, lust...whatever) picks up on this homing signal, they will seek to gain energy from the individual in question. BUt there is an energetic contract that is made on an unconscious level, sometimes an open contract. The demon will offer to distract the person from their issue with: Fear, sex, delusions of grandeur, torture etc... and in return the "victim" gives the demon their energy. When the "victim" decides that they are ready to move beyond their pain, the demon will fight to keep their energy source, but if the person is ready to do whatever it takes to face their denial, the demon will flee. Exorcism rituals are excellent, but if the person does not follow through with some kind of counseling, the demon will return, because psychological patterns do not go away over night...

So, in terms of Kunlun, here is my opinion:

Kunlun, like all Mao Shan stuff is designed to bring your unconscious issues to the surface so that you can release them and reduce yourself to zero so that the vibrational energy of the practices can transform you to a higher level. If someone with an addictive personality or someone who is seeking powerful spiritual practices in order to escape personal pain chooses to practice Kunlun, they usually practice it very hard, this will bring their unconscious issues to the front very quickly and very powerfully. IF this is the case, this will manifest their inner issues and can possibly attract outside entitities. The reason for this is twofold: The internal and external demons are afraid of the transformational energy of Kunlun and will seek to frighten the individual into stopping the practice. If the individual is unready or unwilling to face themselves, this problem will continue until they face the issues or abandon the practice. IMO, people who are not ready to completely face themselves should either practice kunlun sparingly or not practice it at all. Energy work can be serious stuff, we need to be mature and use it for what it is meant for and not treat it like a toy.... Kunlun is a very powerful and effective practice if done with maturity and self discipline....

 

 

Here's some things I have liked to do, during bad dreams, etc...

 

If you encounter some scary thing, stare it down. Look at it directly for a long time. Make a point to just glare at it, without any emotion. This helps you face the underlying issue, and develops your will power.

 

You can point your index finger at it, which will help to awaken the alert mind and get you out of the hallucinatory state.

 

Moving to touch it will help also get over the fear.

 

There's a Tibetan mudra for "banishing" that I stumbled upon once, where you cross your wrists and pinkies with the palms facing outward, and point the index fingers and thumbs, while bending the middle and ring fingers to touch the palm. They say lesser spirits are scared of it because it resembles the garuda. It works...I think mostly because of the extended index fingers (awareness) and crossed wrists (symbolizes protection).

 

Someone once said that Ya Mu suggested to hiss at it loudly. Haven't tried this but it sounds good, because it'd help to snap you out of it. Another thing is just simply telling it loudly to "get out"...simple, it works.

 

Like I said, all of these things are simply so that you can become more alert. That's all...no magic.

 

Overall, I view "demons" (internal or external) as products of the mind, essentially the same thing as characters in a dream. I think even calling them demons or spirits is a bit delusional. They have no power, unless you believe they do...then really you're just deluding yourself, and causing your own problems in life.

 

In my life, when I dream, the characters don't actually impact my life. I choose my financial situation, my relationships, etc... These characters symbolize the energies of our lives that we've hidden away...that's all. It's a subconscious interpretation...totally the mind. By facing these things, we can become whole and more open...more capable of being good people and living fulfilling lives.

 

Any beliefs beyond this are delusional.

 

 

Hissing is the metal sound. Metal is the element for fighting demons. Metal slices through illusion. Sword fingers can be used to dispel demons. Yes, stare it down...call on your spirit guides for courage and help. In Spirit fighting we hiss alot. So, hissing with sword fingers can help.

We have a spirit fighting mudra in Mao Shan. Any kunlunies who want to learn it, contact me...

Those in contact with Max, ask him to teach "the Mao Shan Salute" it is a demon fighting mudra. It's actually a short form... I won't teach it unless you are my student or in my lineage (i.e. Kunlun).... If you do that to each of the eight guas (directions) in a clockwise fashion starting in the north, it will cleanse a space and frighten away any nasties... For any of my students who have my DVD, do the Yin yang hands in each of the eight directions clockwise starting in the North. (direction of the Dark Warrior, general of all Spirit Fighters...) Level II DVD which I am almost finished with has a another version of yin yang hands which can be used to dispel nasties also...

 

 

Gjeken, Inedible and others who have emailed me... Kunlun is a safe practice. However, it is VERY powerful. If anyone who has practiced kunlun stopped because the practice was becoming overwhelming, I have some suggestions to help.

 

1st) If you have the Kunlun book, practice the Five Element Standing postures. If you are a kunlunie and don't have the book, get it... Those Five postures are extremely important. They will strengthen your nervous system, balance your internal organs and prepare your spirit for the more advanced Mao Shan techniques. ( RP and Yi Gong)

 

2nd) Do the Golden flower meditations. Originally, (or so I've heard, check with Max for confirmation) these meditations were done for one year at a time for each dan tien (or maybe it was Three...) Work on the Lower Dan Tien posture and meditation for awhile to help ground you.

 

3rd) The Yi Gong (spontaneous) exercise is very healing, purifying and powerful. However, it is imperative that one have a healthy respect for the technique and not use it as just a way to get high or "bliss out." the bliss is not a drug. If someone abuses the practice in an attempt to escape feelings, the practice will have a backlash effect, because the whole point of the exercise is to help you become more conscious. So, if someone is using it to escape, (unconscious) they are in effect at cross purposes with themselves. So, if you are worried because you have felt overwhelmed by the practice, then simply reduce the time you practice the spontaneous (Yi Gong) and INCREASE the amount of time you practice the postures and golden flower.

 

4) After using the postures and golden flower to strengthen, ground and prepare your nervous system and psyche, then ( when you feel ready) you can reintroduce the Yi Gong and RP in small doses. As you become stronger, you can increase the time in the advanced techniques. During times of rapid growth, slow down or take a break.

 

But also know that part of the process is to work through the emotional and psychological issues that come up. This should be understood beforehand. No one should attempt this practice if they do not understand that this process will clean you out. If you are not ready for it, don't do it. If you are looking for instant enlightenement, don't do it. if you are looking for powers, don't do it.

 

So, I also recommend that you work with a counselor or spiritual advisor on a regular basis... This is essential.

 

I have been practicing Mao Shan for almost 20 years and I speak with a counselor or spiritual advisor at least twice a month. More if I have a growth episode...

 

The more advanced techniques, (RP and Yi Gong) have become the focus of Kunlun but they are only part of the whole system. But remember there was a reason these things were kept secret.

 

My blessings to all.

Mike

[Sloppy Zhang]

I'm not that far along on my own spiritual cultivation path, and I've only encountered two things that could be considered "demons". There is one "demon" that I think I might be fighting off right now with a few bad habits I've got, but that's another story.

 

In general, Scotty's advice is very good. Stare it down, face it, realize that it's all part of your mind.

 

fiveelementtao has also made some very good posts that I agree with on many levels. When it comes to internal/external demons, the vast majority of "beings" you encounter at the beginning are probably going to be internal, simply because so many of us have so much garbage accumulated from our entire lives that we just haven't unpacked. And, frankly, you just aren't important enough for most larger, external "demons" to take an interest in.

 

That said, William Mistele is a student of Franz Bardon's Hermetics, and has an awesome website with a lot of good articles and a commentary on Bardon's Initiation Into Hermetics here: http://www.lava.net/~pagios/

 

Two articles in particular about the shadow in psychology and in magick: http://www.lava.net/~pagios/shadow.html

 

And about negative spirits here: http://www.lava.net/~pagios/negative.html

 

Both relate to the situation, helped me understand a lot of things, and really echo when 5ET has said previously in the thread.

 

On the subject of spontaneous qigong, B.K. Frantzis talks a bit about it in his book "The Great Stillness", and he mentions some spontaneous movements he experienced as a result of some high level bagua practice. His teacher said that every once in a while it'll happen to students because they become more connected to flows of universal qi, and the body needs to adjust.

 

But it should be kept in mind that, at least in Frantzis' tradition, these spontaneous movements come after years of "regular" qigong practice, years of understanding and controlling the flow of qi, building up a flexible, healthy body, and having the clarity of mind to not get freaked out by experiences you cannot control. They also don't do these spontaneous movements deliberately, as in, they don't sit down and say, "time to do spontaneous movement", rather, they just do their normal practice, but if something happens then something happens. So I highly suggest that you should take the other exercises in the Kunlun book and spend at least the same amount of time between spontaneous movements and the more "normal" exercises. But I don't do kunlun (I have the book though), so maybe some other advice would be better.

 

From my own experiences, the best things to do is keep everything that everyone here and elsewhere has said. It's your mind and you're in control. Nothing has power over you except what power you let it have over you. Most of what you face is likely to be your own garbage, it's just that not everyone goes through such a radical process of self examination as many people on the path of spiritual cultivation do.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[Taomeow]

 

To my mind, the benefit of spontaneous qigong practices is that it is super fast developing the subtle body rapidly and puts one in touch with guardian angels/spirits/etc which enables one to learn new practices and concepts as needed. The problem being that these friends are super high level practitioners are subtly stealing positive energies while teaching whatever it is that the practitioner wants to learn. So the K practitioner learns how to do all sorts of nice siddhis and realize lots of happy insights but it's all Faust in the end.

It's vice versa -- these entities (not "high level practitioners" but demons your upbringing taught you to create in your subtle bodies) keep stealing your subtle energy on a continuous lifelong basis while you're not aware of their existence, and stop doing so only if your practice brings their existence into consciousness and you face them and fight and conquer them.

 

Sure, the ones that are made visible by the very practice designed to bring them to light can then be treated as someone else's contribution; to refuse to own up is very human. The ones that become actually in-transition, from their hiding place in your subtle body into the glaring obviousness into your everyday life, can then be exorcised by talismanic magic, the way you chose to go about it. Why not. I'm a big fan myself. Problem is, talismanic magic which you're offered by someone else is like "here, take this pill" offered by a doctor. The symptoms of this particular flare-up will be gone. The disease, no. A practice that manifests demons is to be viewed as a practice of how to become healthy instead of taking pills. Most people believe a disease is someone else's fault (a virus, a bacterium, a worm stealing your energy) and take pills. Some believe a disease is your creation (a lifetime of junk put into your subtle body) and will keep truckin' till the junk is removed. To each their own.

 

ShaktiMama is right, by the way -- this is the process encountered in ANY deep-reaching practice. Absolutely any one of them. Read Gopi Krishna, the foremost kundalini authority, on the subject of the demons of kundalini. Read Swami Muktananda on the demons of the Hindu devotional guru practices. Read Stanislav Grof's "Spiritual Emergency." Don't underestimate your power.

[Guest winpro07]

and the increase in your own bliss potential is exponential unless you resist. Resistance is the key to your own growth and what has held you still for so long. The fastest way to get into resistance is to become fearful, but it's not the only way. Bliss is a bodily experience of an energy that rises from the alchemy and exists somewhere between this world and the next. It runs a range of frequency and so has many qualities. It is like a bride to Tao and because of the simplicity of the practice and quantity immediately available crossing over can happen at any time. Those most in resistance to Kunlun are well on their way. This is not Chi kung or any 'chi' practice. This is alchemy.

 

I would like for the challengers to present an exact description of the flaws they "see" in this alchemy?

 

you know, how "you" "see" energies are flowing and where and precisely why you believe it is wrong.

 

'see' being the optimum word. I am assuming the challengers can actually see the energy they find disagreement with?

Edited December 31, 2009 by winpro07