Highest most pure state of wei wu wei?

[Marblehead]

So I am agreeing this translation may have been made by a person with conventional 'christian' attitudes.

Okay.  I was wondering what you were getting at.  Hehehe.

[dust]

All I can contribute is the following pedantic linguistic note. I do feel it might be important to note the difference, though:

 

 

Therefore the ten thousand things venerate the Way and honor virtue.

 

The translation you quoted was likely by a religious person, probably a Christian.

 

Yes... "worship" is not a good translation of 尊. Revere, honour, respect... but not worship.

 

Mozi said （tr. WP Mei):

 

 

其事上尊天，中事鬼神，下愛人

In the highest sphere they revered Heaven, in the middle sphere they worshipped the spirits, and in the lower sphere they loved the people

 

 

In my opinion, traditional notions of worship do not fit when it comes to the Way. And I can find no suggestions of worship of Dao in either the Laozi or Zhuangzi (perhaps there are in other texts, but I am not so bothered about those)

 

_____________________________

 

 

I suppose this links back to the OP... What are we worshiping? Why?

 

I feel it important to note the difference because the traditional idea of worship, as opposed to respect or reverence (which I can feel for many things which I do not directly worship, like the sun, or a beautiful woman), implies the notion that Dao is some kind of god whose will one must obey. It is not.

 

We are all the Way. Go against the flow of things and life will be harder, sure, but... that's entirely up to you. It might even be more fun like that for a while. Go with the flow, do wu wei, and things become easier. Simple.

[Stosh]

Funny thing, I google searched a phrase from  it , to see who the author was and got redirected to my own post earlier in this thread!

[Marblehead]

Funny thing, I google searched a phrase from  it , to see who the author was and got redirected to my own post earlier in this thread!

Is that something like saying you have finally found yourself?

[Marblehead]

... implies the notion that Dao is some kind of god whose will one must obey. It is not.

That is my main problem with using the word "worship".

[Everything]

That is my main problem with using the word "worship".

Maybe Dao doesn't have got anything to do with us. I don't know what Dao is, really. Can't put it in words either. I wish I could, but hey, I just make noises with my throat and not much else happens.

 

What am I gonna say? I guess the best thing to say, like you guys also said, we can't speak about the Dao. We can't think about it. Question is. Can we feel Dao? Maybe that is the way to experience Dao. Through our emotions. I would guess Dao feels really good. Else Lao Tzu woulden't really be so interested in it. Dao must be really pretty amazing. I'm fine with that. Look for Dao in all the amazing things of life. Maybe it is something so amazing, I will not be able to put it in words how I am feeling.

 

But again, submition plays a role in Dao I believe.

 

"Whoever is desireless, sees the essence of life.

Whoever desires, sees its manifestations."

 

Like empty minded meditation brings allot of clarity aswell, that could help with experiencing Dao. And if not, then I don't know what can. Just wish Dao woulden't be so damn mysterious all the time. Maybe its so obvious that it is oblivious to us. That is also a possibility. I don't know. Wish I knew. I don't know sht.

 

I'm actually going to sleep. Atleast that's one thing I understand and know how to do. Wei wu wei, I fall asleep. It's not an act of doing, but I'm gonna do it anyway. How on earth is that even possible.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Everything

[Everything]

Yeah, I don't recall me doing anything. I think sleep is an act of wei wu wei. I just think, Lao Tzu was able to fall asleep while still remaining awake. That again sounds like meditation. It works for me.

[Stosh]

Is that something like saying you have finally found yourself?

Yes , that must be it! Ive wei wu weid myself into sync with the universe.  Finally! 

[Marblehead]

Great posts guys.  You have left me with nothing to say.