SHORINJI KEMPO (SHAOLIN FIST)

[Mudryah]

This is the place i use to practice at in San Francisco. They have schools around the country. This was my foundation and later i met my other teachers.

 

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

Imho, this looks pretty much like modern Japanese tournament Karate, with some Aikido/Aiki-jutsu thrown in, although the latter part seems to be limited to choreographed demonstrations. Just telling from this video.

 

But to each their own.

 

Edit: I call that style of Karate the "black and blue mark" way of doing it which is far different from the down to earth and combat proven Okinawan styles.

 

Nungaaaliii!!!

Edited April 12, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Mudryah]

Every style is mixed, the foundation is actually Shaolin read about Doshin So the founder of Shorinji Kempo. He was the first Japanese (he was undercover at the time) to be a high ranking Shaolin monk and was in charge of one of the Chambers in Shaolin Temple. His name is honored in Shaolin Temple. And he did spar with the founder of Aikido too they were in the same Secret Society together. Karate just means empty hand so modern or ancient its still karate. Shorinji Kempo is about saving lives not harming so if its too simple  then that is great. A simple mind sees simple things.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Mudryah

[Mudryah]

[Mudryah]

[Mudryah]

[Astral Monk]

Sister Street Fighter is a great series. Plus I love the dojo scene in the first movie. Not much changed in Shorinji Kempo since the 70s...except the wording of the oath and creed and dropping of pressure point massage for lay ppl and no longer teaching meiuchi as a fingertip strike.

 

Shorinji Kempo is more like Shaolin than anything with heavy emphasis on chinna moves as part of the soft regimen. Unlike Aikido theres plenty of offensive strikes, even though the basic philosophy is 'dont strike first'.

 

8)

Edited April 12, 2015 by Astral Monk

[Astral Monk]

Difference between Shorinji Kempo and modern karate is that there is no such thing as tournament competition. All Shorinji instructors are volunteers and we all take a vow never to profit financially from practicing the art. The organization was originally build on redeveloping the character of the post-war Japanese and has not been caught up in the Americanisation of kenpo et al. As such it is not widely known in North America and its main base of influence is still in Japan.

 

8)

[Nungali]

Imho, this looks pretty much like modern Japanese tournament Karate, with some Aikido/Aiki-jutsu thrown in, although the latter part seems to be limited to choreographed demonstrations. Just telling from this video.

 

But to each their own.

 

Edit: I call that style of Karate the "black and blue mark" way of doing it which is far different from the down to earth and combat proven Okinawan styles.

 

Nungaaaliii!!!

 

 

 

 

What ? 

 

 

Do you want me to comment ?  

 

I dont really know. It seems to be a totally different path into Shaolin than than the Okinawan one. It seems, from the claims,  a direct Japanese link with Shaolin that didnt go through Okinawa, Karate (which actually meant 'Chinese hand' until they changed the character to mean 'open hand' for import to Japan ) , Japanese primary school P.E. , devastation of WWII , 'teaching the  winner', deportation by loud mouthed American show offs and into a sport (  )  ... with rules ...    rules ?! ... in a knife fight ! 

 

 

 

 

....  to end up as 'modern karate'. 

 

With the exception of MSSR  . of course  

 

I find the story interesting though, if it is true. It goes to show that not only is the 'normal route' of Karate into the world originating from Shaolin ( through the Okinawan court, into Japan)  but also via this seemingly totally different route.

 

[ yeah, I know some dispute the Shaolin connection, but I am in no way talking about the ancient Japanese martial arts, just karate .  Also there is the death poem of Master Sokken ....

 

 for those that came in late .... MSSR - Matsamura Seito ShorinRyu is a family style / tradition passed down to family members  ( Seito) from 'Bushi Matsamura', personal body guard to the last 3 Okinawan Kings. The tradition has ended now with the death, a few years back of Koshi Nishihira , our last family line teacher. Master Sokken was his Uncle and teacher and the 4th inheritor after 'Bushi' Matsamura Soken.  Master Sokken left Okinawa pre WWII  and the 'corruption' of 'Okinawan hand; and lived in South America, preserving the family tradition of 'te' , to return  years after the war to Okinawa, where he began teaching the old form again ...

 

Only a few weeks back, our instructor again bought the scrolls out with the ink painting of Master Soken with the death poem written under it; 

 

"I have taught you all I know. There is no more I can teach you. I am a candle whose light has traveled far. You are my candles to whom I have passed on my light. It is you who will light the path for others. Today I see around me the lights of Shaolin. The flame of tomorrow. My task is done, soon my flame will end. Teach the true spirit of karate-do and one day you may enter the Temple of Shaolin".

 

http://www.stamfordisshinryu.com/id132.htm

 

Figurative or not, its pretty indicative of where his sentiments lay.

[Nungali]

Difference between Shorinji Kempo and modern karate is that there is no such thing as tournament competition. All Shorinji instructors are volunteers and we all take a vow never to profit financially from practicing the art. The organization was originally build on redeveloping the character of the post-war Japanese and has not been caught up in the Americanisation of kenpo et al. As such it is not widely known in North America and its main base of influence is still in Japan.

 

8)

 

I suppose that is what gives it its method and style; developing Japanese character.  Whereas something like Matsamura style is designed , ultimately (as expressed by Mr Nishihira) 'to protect your family'  ( a step down, perhaps, from 'protecting the king', the job of a bodyguard )  . 

 

It may not have been caught up in the Americanisation of Kempo as such ... but that first vids sound track seemed to be caught up in some type of 'Americanisation' of martial arts. 

 

No offence, but I think the black over coat and the big rope belt is sorta ......        a bit silly, like the Aikido Hakama. 

 

 

I have trained that very formal and traditional way (in early karate and later Aikido) .....  eventually,  nah !  I feel, now;  'to get real, you have to get out of class'. 

 

Mr Nishihira used to train in a singlet and just roll up the leg of his trousers ( maybe a gi for an official photo or something), visiting black belts would be all dressed up in gi and black belts, he said they could do that if they wanted to , or needed to   .

 

He never had a commercial dojo or sign.  All these others claimed to be the new Master and head of ShorinRyu after Master Hohan died, he never disputed or argued with them about that ...  he just held the swords, weapons, and family relationship that was passed on to him from the last master.  No one wanted to try and best him though ... many would go to him quietly for a training session or a visit.  Many 'famous ' karateka visited him for instruction or a workout ... ( the visit from Patrick Macarthy ended up amusing    ) 

 

Now, mainstream ShrorinRyu is very different ... apparently they even have a show on stage at a big Okinawan night club !  

 

All these 'Shorin Ryu'   ( Ryukyu - from Okinawa)  groups are now adding Seito to their club name. I havent found one vid online that I could use as a demo of the form, some are just going up and down the hall, block punch JKA style   .   Bunkai seem stiff undynamic and unrealistic .... ho hum .  

 

I actually even watch people turning it back into mainstream modern Japoamerican karate each time I attend my own training 

 

One day I will film and put mu own youtube up (after I make my black gi with the scarlet lightning strike design ) ...... with this sound track   

 

[Astral Monk]

Also the second part of the style was an emphasis on Buddhist teachings; one could also train to become ordained as a monk. I read some thought this was a clever tax dodge or something, lol. I'm not sure how big it is part of the contemporary school. As for efficacy, they used to mention how the Japanese police trained in Shorinji Kempo. The techniques are compact and designed to help a person get away from danger, and to subdue without permanent harm, quite like Aikido. A modern style for the masses, there is no lineage type continuation, as far as I know, though the founder's daughter runs the 'organization' side of things, or did as of a few years ago.

 

8)

[Nungali]

Just a thought ... (not that I can be bothered ) but the Okinawan language and the Japanese language roots of the word shorin might prove interesting (if they are not tone taken from the other. 

 

I thought Shorin was an Okinawan word? Does anyone know the  Japanese word for 'Shaolin'  ? 

 

What about 'Ji ' ?   ... In Chinese and Japanese ?  Rty - not sure, in Okinawan Okinawa is called Ryu kyu (named after the old Kingdom there.

[Mudryah]

Shorin = Shaolin

Ji = Temple

Kempo = Fist

[Michael Sternbach]

 

 

What ? 

 

 

Do you want me to comment ?  

 

What else would I invoke the Thelemic rhino for - ?

 

I dont really know. It seems to be a totally different path into Shaolin than than the Okinawan one. It seems, from the claims,  a direct Japanese link with Shaolin that didnt go through Okinawa, Karate (which actually meant 'Chinese hand' until they changed the character to mean 'open hand' for import to Japan ) ,

 

Only there is no evidence for that.

 

The thing is, Shorinji Kempo doesn't resemble much Northern Shaolin styles, and I guess those are the one claimed as its direct predecessors.

 

The grappling techniques were admittedly adopted from Aikido/Aiki-jutsu rather than from Chin na.

 

While the striking/kicking techniques resemble modern Japanese sport Karate more than anything else.

 

Japanese primary school P.E. , devastation of WWII , 'teaching the  winner', deportation by loud mouthed American show offs and into a sport (  )  ... with rules ...    rules ?! ... in a knife fight ! 

 

 

 

 

....  to end up as 'modern karate'. 

 

With the exception of MSSR  . of course  

 

Matsamura Seito Shorin Ryu was also highly influential in the revival of Kyusho-jitsu, or the art of vital point striking.

 

The Shorin Ryu styles are more directly influenced by the Southern Shaolin styles, especially (but not only) by White Crane.

[Mudryah]

Thank you for the history. 

Edited April 13, 2015 by Mudryah

[Nungali]

What else would I invoke the Thelemic rhino for - ?

 

Sounds like you are trying to start a little fire there ?    

 

 

 

 

Only there is no evidence for that.

 

Just the OP and 'Masters' claim.  

 

The thing is, Shorinji Kempo doesn't resemble much Northern Shaolin styles, and I guess those are the one claimed as its direct predecessors.

 

The grappling techniques were admittedly adopted from Aikido/Aiki-jutsu rather than from Chin na.

 

While the striking/kicking techniques resemble modern Japanese sport Karate more than anything else.

 

Looked like that. 

 

Matsamura Seito Shorin Ryu was also highly influential in the revival of Kyusho-jitsu, or the art of vital point striking.

 

This often amuses me. Yeeears back, certain people were still coveting the secret old hidden book of Okinawan  secret striking knowledge and techniques .... the Bubashi or something it was called.  I was given a copy of what was supposed to be it and it was a ju-jitsu police training manual from some American State from 1960 something  

 

The next one was photocopies of an old dodgy looking 'manuscript' .  It isnt secret at all,  Patrick McCarthy  (again !      ) eventually cashed in on it;

 

 

 

Ummmmm .... guys ;

 

 

 

Eventually I told the 'guys' to stop trying to deal in 'secret technique documents' and just check out an acupuncture chart 

 

.... I mean ... really !  

 

(I tend to go for Lung 8 when a punch is thrown at me, by evading and striking the point with the index fingers 2nd knuckle.

 

Mr Nishihira's fav  grip on the wrist  firmly plants the ring finger into heart 5  -  that is not pleasant (and to think Itosu's grip (I think it was him) has said to be able to crush a green bamboo culm )  - we wont detail his, move to the rear and big toe kick into Huiyin       ) 

 

 

The Shorin Ryu styles are more directly influenced by the Southern Shaolin styles, especially (but not only) by White Crane.

 

The Soken  / Matsamura family gave it precednce, bioth Hohan Soken and Koshei Nishihira taught that Hakatsuru (crane form) was essence of their art (which, by the way, was only named fairly recently ... some have claimed that Shorin means Pine tree - Pine Tree school.

 

Bushi Matsamura and one of his teachers Sakagawa def went and trained at Fukkien .  Mr Nishihira claimed the prime kata and all extensions of technique from it, that defined MSSR ( and now it appears a K.N. might need to be added as all sorts of people are now claiming their style as 'Seito' that are not the family tradition of the Matsamura clan ) come from Naiharchin kata ( called tekki and changed for the Japanese importation process).

 

Naiharchin seems the 'beginners form' for hakatsuru.  As time has gone on, I can see how much of MSSR ... KN ...  is based on Crane form (or this expression of it ) .

 

But you are right about other influences; two of the main ones are Kusanku form, which was bought from China by Ku Sanku ( or some similar variation) and official envoy that worked in Okinawa, and Chinto form, based on the art of a Chinese pirate called Chinto that Bushi Matsamura was sent to arrest , but he couldnt defeat him, so they made friends and Chinto was given a pardon.  Bioh seem very different forms to hakatsuru - crane form, especially the 'obscure' of chinto form (until one realises CXhinto was a pirate and much of his form may have developed from on ship fighting, narrow spaces, rigging, stairs, etc, - apparently the position he took up that he couldnt be defeated from by Bushi was in the back of a beach cave he was camped in, up on some rock ledges, a position not unlike what one might find on a boat ? 

 

So, as time goes on I find more evidence that 'Japanese' karate originated in Shaolin arts, yes MSSR is deffinatety related and seems to come primarily from white crane form ( with Chinto, Kusanku and Heron form ( Rohi) thrown into the mix and used effective evasion and pressure point strikes learnt from Chinese 'acupuncture'.  . . .  and the use of the 'crane kick' as an 'after evade' kick that 'kicks around corners' .          (nooooo .... not like the 'karate kid' used it     ) 

 

Dont expect to find one on youtube ... well, you will find many but ....      (including the one American expert on it that said it is all based on Passai from    ??? )

 

Its  very old (and so is Hohan, here)  but here is the Matsamura crane form version that Bushi learnt in China ( or adapted from what he learnt) and passed on to his son Nabe, then to Hohan.