The truth and nothing but the truth

[Everything]

Yeah sometimes the truth is an uncomfortable one. Not that we can do much about it. It should improve, but it takes time for it to improve or for us to improve it, and there will always be another thing to improve. The more we improve, the more things there will be to improve. Does that mean we're never going to be satisfied? Nope, we should be more satisfied with the way things are aswell. Not that we always are, considering the circumstances and all. So find balance, a stable platform from which to launch your efforts. Create peace in your life and others, and eventually, we'll all be able to enjoy more and more enjoyable truths.

Not many people care to create peace and be good to their neighbours, this is just the way it is. So we can be fine with that, and we can be the better example ourselves. Be the life you want to live. It's very easy, and most of all, in that way of living the example you wanna give, you are already allowing yourself to live the kind of life you wanna live and you want everyone else to live, head on.

It's like that. Be good to others, expect others to be good to eachother aswell. Eventually you'll be surrounded with people that are being good to eachother in life.

I personally am already surrounded by allot of good people like that. Being good is second nature to them, I appreciate that. Their motives are clear and friendly, honest, authentic, in good value towards other beings. There are enough people like that to go around. That's enough to me. That makes the truth much less uncomfortable. There are lots of good things to go around. The equilibrium of life evolves around it. It is the natural way of things that all things rest on peace. They find their support therein.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Everything

[Marblehead]

I think people believe what they want to believe.

 

The question is, do you want to believe the truth?

 

When the willingness to see the truth is there, it is seen.

A few simple words is all it took.

[silent thunder]

I think people believe what they want to believe.

 

The question is, do you want to believe the truth?

 

When the willingness to see the truth is there, it is seen.

 

 

A few simple words is all it took.

So then... what is the truth?

[Marblehead]

So then... what is the truth?

You don't expect me to know do you?

 

I can tell you "my" truths but they apply to only "my" life.

[silent thunder]

You don't expect me to know do you?

 

I can tell you "my" truths but they apply to only "my" life.

No, but I knew your answer would be clear and kick ass and that is truth enough for me.

[Spotless]

@Spotless.

 

It is possible that we have different experiences. It is also possible that we are using the same term with different meanings in mind. When we get down to the operation of the mind, we begin with an awareness which precedes its complement. The thing is, when there is enough energy to support out-of-body travel and the like, we have access to direct experience and (in this state) the notion that "the truth is...what is" is all you need. And, in that state, truth is a non-issue because there is nothing that obstructs awareness from direct reality.

 

This is possibly a contentious thing, but it's my working model:

With the mediation of the physically bound mind, there is limitation because the senses package and serve as a mediator between awareness the the world---this takes place because, with physicalized energy structure like the body and its sense organs, there is an economy of energy usage; with OBEs and direct experience, we are not taking advantage of specialized structures that are formed to transform and repackage received forms of energy; as such, there tends to be greater dispersion and depletion of energy. And so, unless you are an immortal or extremely high-level energy master, you are going to use mental mediation.

 

Even if you have cultivated the empty mind, you would need to experience an OBE to still have this clarity. Case in point:

If you follow the process required to affirm that these are in fact no black dots in this image you will have affirmed my model in full.

 

As for the example with Einstein and inventors---self-evaluation of truth matters very little without method. In general, though, the notion of intuition actually is deeply embedded within my model. If you read what I wrote, then you should see a very Wittgensteinian character to it---meaning is use; all the details of a situation contribute to how it is interpreted and represented; these details tend to exist subconsciously in the mind rather than as obvious and explicitly rendered theories and ideas. But, they provide the most significant and necessary contributions to all forms of truth evaluation.

 

We may differ on this point, but as far as I am concerned, intuition is the stuff of the subconscious and, in general, it is simply a repository of information that has not been (or is not currently and consciously being) processed. Though I tended to use specialized terms, this was meant to bridge the presumed gap between formal theories and the stuff of fairly direct experience. Nevertheless, when I said:

 

"the specific manner of use is the non-technical backdrop for the formal semantics of the idea; the way that you use the idea is the non-technical backdrop for the morphosyntactics of the idea; the conventions that you adopt to express the idea are the lexics of the idea; the existing conventions in language and culture constitute the non-technical pragmatics of the idea: and so on."

 

intuition (and what Nikolai just posted, minus the notion of stages for people) were exactly what I had in mind.

I am extraordinarily happy you brought up some of the points you have as they are very far off the mark but are a stage in understanding where it may appear very correct. It would be to my great delight if you can hear me in this.

 

You said:

"It is possible that we have different experiences. It is also possible that we are using the same term with different meanings in mind. When we get down to the operation of the mind, we begin with an awareness which precedes its complement. The thing is, when there is enough energy to support out-of-body travel and the like, we have access to direct experience and (in this state) the notion that "the truth is...what is" is all you need. And, in that state, truth is a non-issue because there is nothing that obstructs awareness from direct reality.

 

This is possibly a contentious thing, but it's my working model:

With the mediation of the physically bound mind, there is limitation because the senses package and serve as a mediator between awareness the the world---this takes place because, with physicalized energy structure like the body and its sense organs, there is an economy of energy usage; with OBEs and direct experience, we are not taking advantage of specialized structures that are formed to transform and repackage received forms of energy; as such, there tends to be greater dispersion and depletion of energy. And so, unless you are an immortal or extremely high-level energy master, you are going to use mental mediation.

 

Even if you have cultivated the empty mind, you would need to experience an OBE to still have this clarity."

--

 

This is a trap phase in your exploration and indeed it will appear absolutely irrefutable - it is the trance phase and it will in fact yield only a level of indirect experience that will serve to detour you possibly for a very long time. We have some very good examples within these forums of those that have traveled very far into this way and they appear practically unable to ever speak for themselves without quoting someone else over and over on nearly every page they "say" something.

 

They are absolutely positive OBE and the whole package you are presenting is the way for clarity - but it is not - it is in a sense the lazy mans way to quick rewards and indeed into a world that appears to have industrial clarity (and in some cases it does but not in any way shape or form better than if done in and with the body).

 

This will also be an impediment to awakening because you will be lead to believe in your rapid accomplishments and in the story you will create in your mind regarding them - this is a stage.

 

Leaving your body is one of the simplistic things you can do - getting to the point of seeing from outside while aware seems to be quite a leap and all sorts of cool things come to life - but this is petty stuff by comparison to in body and awakening.

 

Another quote from you:

 

"And so, unless you are an immortal or extremely high-level energy master, you are going to use mental mediation."

 

An unfortunate conjecture - and untrue - though I cannot disagree from your viewpoint - it appears true.

This is also why for many of us long sitting sessions are so highly regarded (4 to 15+ hours at a sitting), they get you past this view because many impediments fall away (they are not released - again - not a Doing). Mental mediation takes over OBE upon re-entry. The baffoon is the problem and must be removed from the drivers seat - sneaking around it does not solve the fundamental problem of cardboard living.

 

As an example - in doing work that appear to be outside the body on say, the other side of the planet, sitting and going out of the body and traveling there and working and seeing all takes some effort but the idea of doing it from in the body seems completely impossible - it is not - not only is it not but from in the body their in no difference between two feet in front of me and Hong Kong (I'm in California). It also takes no effort at all by comparison and takes split seconds.

 

It might be argued that I am indeed an extremely high level energy master but everyone needs to bring this all back to where the rubber meets the road - none of this is necessarily so very distant from anyone's possibilities - it has been made out to be entirely to lofty. All the big stuff happens within the body - in a sense this is what you are here for and the power is beyond incredible, it is stunning.

 

Out of the body feels fast and if you become adept in thoughtform awareness the speeds cease and it is simply a matter of one thought to the next, completely gone are time and space. This is not un useful and fun to know and do - but it is a yawn by comparison to the prize. ( though in order to do it one must be able to abide in neutrality within thought form and this is very useful and close to awakening though you can be right there a millimeter away and be entirely clueless and while you are doing it you can live a lifetime in a minute - it is stupefyingly exciting and experiential - and by the way - this is not done in trance).

 

And the big prize is far closer than these areas you speak of and the thinking that is anchoring you there. It is this "thinking thing" that is such an obstacle and so intense for those of us who truly can use our minds and words. We want to engineer - it is what is clearly needed - we want to transcend and release and Do, and we will pound that square peg into the round hole while the whole world rots if that is what it takes. But the world is not rotting in the least and that which is truely us is as spotless and unborn as ever and when the door opens we will see it was always at hand but we allowed ourselves to be seduced by heroic detours led by any nut that took the reins that day even if it happened to be what our perception of an intellectual is.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Spotless

[Nikolai1]

In short, mind is not mediated by the senses...never has been, never will be. We do not therefore ever transcend physical mind or the senses. They are already transcended. Mundane existence is itself an OBE.

[Spotless]

Spot on!

 

"Mundane existence is itself an OBE"

 

☺️ Well put Nikolai1

Edited April 16, 2015 by Spotless

[Nikolai1]

If we want to exist as if "mundane existence is itself an OBE", we have to first gain a (in my terms) stage 3 insight into the very concepts that make up selfhood.

 

These concepts are time, space and plurality.

 

So time must be seen concretely as also being eternity.  We must be able to directly see that this is the case.

 

Our 'hereness' in space must also be seen as the 'only place' which is the same as saying 'nowhere'.

 

Our sense of individuality as one of a plurality of other individuals is based on the subject/object distinction. This is represented as a subjective mental realm of thoughts, and an objective realm of matter.  We must be able to see directly that thought and matter are indistinguishable.  That everything is therefore object, 'not me', which is the same as saying everything is subject, i.e. 'me'.

 

So we have three pairs of opposites: time/timeless, here/nowhere, individuality/union.

 

If we have the slightest hint of bias towards any of these 6 poles of thought, the level 4 understanding will be denied us.  Or to put it another way, the bias is itself ignorance of truth.  

 

I'm sure there are many ways of reaching this level of truth, all the yogas are different.  If you are very intellectual in your approach to reality then a level 3 understanding into your very own selfhood is highly, highly disorientating.  It is the thinking person's 'dark night of the soul'.  Your whole identity gets utterly shattered and you are left without any conscious heuristic with which to approach your own life.  Your are literally forced before long into stage 4 living.

 

Traditional spiritual teachings, by the way, occur at level 2.  They are usually reminders that there is another way of looking at things than the conventional view of individuality in time and space.  Some people adopt the spiritual teachings, and some reject them.  To adopt and to reject is the same level 2 behaviour.  Only when the spiritual teachings are recognised as identical to the conventional do we move to Level 3.  Unsurprisingly, this move is resisted because it is highly anxiety provoking.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Nikolai1

[roger]

Silent Thunder,

 

YOU ARE!