Let's rename the Like button the Noteworthy button

[Taomeow]

And since it's probably not possible technically (although I'm not the one to know what is and isn't possible technically), let's agree to use it as such -- as though the button is named "Noteworthy." 

 

I've noticed that the most "liked" content is often (though of course not always) the most non-controversial kind.  Collect a bunch of benevolent, nice, mild platitudes in a post and nobody will have a problem "Liking" the post.  But talk about something controversial or difficult or sad, and that button might make you feel "unliked" on top of being sad.  This occurred to me when a member (whom I thank for the thought) commented on a post in my most difficult and tragic thread ever (the one in my PPD, about war) saying that it's impossible to react to something like this by "Liking" it.  Well, of course i don't want it liked, I want it hated -- not what I write, of course, but what I write about there.  I'm sure others have felt that way on occasion too -- they want to say something, but they wind up frustrated because what they say looks and feels as something "disliked," just because that darn button is not applicable.  

 

I occasionally (often) use it simply to mean "I've read what you wrote -- acknowledged," and then other times to mean "I like what you wrote," and then, "I don't like what you wrote but I like the idea of discussing what you brought up," and so on.  It is my impression that some folks use it like that too, but most just wait for something to "like" or not.  I feel this button sort of flattens the range of our emotional and mental responses.  I don't react with a black-and-white like/no like to "everything" in real life -- why should I be robotized and simplified like that in my spontaneous online reactions?  Or you in yours?..

 

So, let's use it as the "Noteworthy" button, or even "My awareness visited this place" button.   And if the post was read but awareness said "shouldn't have bothered with this one," then don't use it.  No one will be upset over this non-use though because this kind of non-use will be indistinguishable from "I haven't read this one, can't read them all, who can? -- but we'll meet again elsewhere perhaps and then I'll "Noteworthy" something you wrote?"   How's that -- like/no like?

[dawei]

"Liked" seems so... yesterday thinking...  technologies smiley face

[soaring crane]

About a third of the time I use it, it's simply an acknowledgment button. A way to inform someone that I've read their post and most probably replied to it. But I agree "like" is too rudimentary. Also the Facebook like button is a powerful tracking tool, not something we really want to be associated with....

[dust]

No, the "Like this" button doesn't work in the thread you mention.

 

I have nothing worthwhile to add to that conversation, but would like to say how brilliantly written, and touching, much of it is. You deserve a much larger audience.

 

And yes... if it were implementable, more than one button would be really useful...

Edited April 19, 2015 by dustybeijing

[Taomeow]

Thank you for your kind words, Dusty.

[cheya]

TDB could probably have a LOT more buttons!

 

Longecity.org has the same format as TDB, but has many more choices than just "like": a total of SEVENTEEN!

 

Here's a thread on ashwagandha: check out those buttons!

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/56409-ashwagandha-a-miracle-herb/#entry515874

 

Maybe an expensive upgrade, and a few of the buttons (dislike, disagree, ill-informed) might be constructive on a health info site, but disruptive on TDB.

 

But there are also some useful ones: informative, cheerful, well-written, well-researched, and agree, along with the less harmonious responses. Two of the more negative ones I did kind of like are "unfriendly" and "off topic."

 

Anyway, all those choices!

But not sure any of them would help much for appreciating TaoMeow's difficult thread.

 

[Stosh]

How about a button that says .....I read the post, think its fine, and while I dont really have any major issue about it, I cant say I agree with everything on hundred percent, though I still respect your opinion on it.

[dawei]

Maybe an expensive upgrade, and a few of the buttons (dislike, disagree, ill-informed) might be constructive on a health info site, but disruptive on TDB.

 

Agreed but nice example.  I assume one has to be a member logged in to see the buttons but it is easy enough to envision.

 

I have documented this idea for Sean and even researched it enough to see that it is actually just a button graphic which could technically be replaced with any graphic (shape, words).   

[cheya]

Dawei wrote:

"I assume one has to be a member logged in to see the buttons but it is easy enough to envision."

 

Sorry, of course you"d need to be logged in, and I can't really recommend the site at this point, a gazillion threads, but so far low usefulness ratio (to me.) I tried to paste in all 17 buttons in a row, but our "forum cop" said I was trying to post too many pictures at one time. :-)

 

So, other buttons Longecity uses are:

Good point, enjoying the show, needs references, pointless/time wasting, and dangerous/irresponsible, as well as report, of course.

 

If you could actually install more button icons and name them as you chose, it might be interesting to poll Bums what buttons they would like to have available. There are so many times that a post really strikes me, but I don't have much to say as a response, and even short approving posts that don't add content can disrupt the flow. Be interesting to see if a variety of TDB-useful buttons would decrease the number of random one-liners in threads... which I find somewhat annoying, especially if I just got a separate email announcing the post....

 

 

[Geof Nanto]

I've noticed that the most "liked" content is often (though of course not always) the most non-controversial kind.  Collect a bunch of benevolent, nice, mild platitudes in a post and nobody will have a problem "Liking" the post.  But talk about something controversial or difficult or sad, and that button might make you feel "unliked" on top of being sad.  

 

That's been my experience too. The 'Like' button is usually used to mean "your comment confirms to my own pattern of thinking". And on that level it's always feels good to have my comments liked. However on the few occasions where I've attempted to write something that's more deeply meaningful for me, I've had little or no response at all. 

 

I don't know whether more buttons are the answer. Perhaps that would help. My concern is such an approach encourages superficial engagement - the instant response. I know for me, when I read something intelligent outside of my normal perspective, it can take days - even weeks or longer - for me to fully appreciate the writer's perspective. So I very much appreciate reading of other people's deeper thoughts and feelings on this forum. And I'd prefer for someone to think about what I write over time rather than give an instantaneous response then equally as instantaneously forget.

 

But my bottom line is that the format of this whole forum works very well and I'm very content with the level of engagement from the members. 

Edited April 19, 2015 by Darkstar

[Stosh]

That's been my experience too. The 'Like' button is usually used to mean "your comment confirms to my own pattern of thinking".

 

But my bottom line is that the format of this whole forum works very well and I'm very content with the level of engagement from the members. 

Thats a wryly funny true view Imo, but consider this, the longer a post goes on, the more likely youre going to touch a point that may be unique,and folks dont want to endorse.

The more deep and personal the post, the more trivial the like button seems. They did a poll on folks reasons for liking posts once, and those varied. Dont take likes or lack of likes personal, or reserve likes for folks who you agree absolutely 100 percent with, enjoy the humor creativity and good intent.

[Geof Nanto]

The more deep and personal the post, the more trivial the like button seems. 

 

Totally agree.

 

Dont take likes or lack of likes personal, or reserve likes for folks who you agree absolutely 100 percent with, enjoy the humor creativity and good intent.

 

Personally I prefer to use the like button sparingly. I mostly only use it when something in a post particularly impresses me, though I claim no consistency. That's because there is so much content on this forum that I like, rather than so little. Also, although I like feedback, I'm OK about not getting any. Sharing on a forum like this with people of somewhat similar psyches works on so many different levels the act of being involved is significant in itself. For me, the most significant 'feedback' is in the form of subtle intuitive feelings of connection.  

Edited April 19, 2015 by Darkstar

[Daeluin]

Sure, when someone says something simple, it is easier to "like." The more complicated the sharing, the higher the chance something will rub our sensitivities the wrong way.

 

However, I don't find myself not clicking the like button when something is controversial, but when it is projecting. When someone is sharing their feelings and expressing completely internal concepts, I feel them looking inward and doing their best to make sense of the world without placing blame on something external.

 

But all too often I find that as I begin to express something that is not simple, it becomes that much easier to make declarations and projections, and these things mask the truth in my words. Declarations and projections, to me, feel like they are freezing and stagnating what had been flowing, and I find that they feel like attacks, and I do not tend to like them.

 

All too often, as I become more lazy and cultivate less, allowing my ego to gain a foothold, I will rest upon declarations to make my points. Usually I find this happening only because I don't take as much care in my expression. I find my mind seems to enjoy the finality and explicitness of declarations - seems to find it easier when there is something to attach to, and more difficult to surrender the need to attach to something. But as I do take more care, as I am now, I find my heart opening, and a feeling of freedom.

[Daeluin]

So... in light of that exploration, I find myself in appreciation of the primal and emotional connection to "liking" something that comes from the heart, instantaneously. I don't need to examine my mind to know if I like something, though I can if I want to. But I do need to ask my mind if something is noteworthy, as my heart isn't so certain...

[Geof Nanto]

Specifically on the topic of adding a 'Noteworthy' button......

 

Although I agree with the issues Taomeow addresses, I don't like the idea of a 'Noteworthy' button. If there was one I'd feel obliged to click it on just about every post I read here. Provided a comment reads as a genuinely thoughtful contribution I consider it as noteworthy. And I assume everyone feels their contribution is noteworthy, otherwise they wouldn't be bothered posting it. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Darkstar

[Taomeow]

Well, if indeed what the button says can be customized, we can perhaps do better than "noteworthy," that was just the first idea.  Most words out of context mean different things to different people.  But maybe we can come up with something that means roughly the same thing to most people?  E.g. a button that says "thank you?"

 

It would be fair to thank whoever contributed something of value to the person reacting.  And by the same token it would still be unnecessary to thank everybody for contributing whatever.  I've seen lots of contributions that I was grateful for.  And I've seen a few which I couldn't forgive myself for even trying to respond to, because it's not words that must be used in such cases, but something like old-fashioned duels.  So, I have no problem not thanking someone who took the time and effort to write something for which a couple of centuries ago, if I were the right social stratum and gender, I'd throw a gauntlet in his face.  Gratitude can't be enforced, right?  But it can feel very nice when earned fairly and given freely, right? 

 

So, thank you (Darkstar) for pointing out that we can do better than "noteworthy." 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Taomeow

[thelerner]

Perhaps we need a button which denotes even higher praise?  like OUTSTANDING  ??

 

For particularly great posts sometimes I'll

them and put a remark underneath about why its so good.  There's always that. 

[Geof Nanto]

The more I think about this, the happier I am to leave it alone.  For me it’s been enough to read Taomeow’s  initial post and learn someone else shares these concerns. (A heartfelt thank you, Taomeow.) I've spoken my piece and I’m happy to leave the outcome to members who have used this forum for longer periods of time than me. But speaking personally, I’m not comfortable with clicking buttons that post judgements on other people’s comments. I can just cope with ‘Like’ but that’s about it.  Sure, in my own mind I may make other distinctions but if I have something I deem worth saying I’ll post a reply.

 

I’m no Daoist fundamentalist but I hold the ideals as worthy of great respect, and, in my opinion, such distinctions as these buttons would imply are out of line with Daoism.  For instance, from chapter 2 of the Daodejing about Daoist sages (Philip Ivanhoe translation)…..

 

They work with the myriad creatures and turn none away.

They produce without possessing.

They act with no expectation of reward.

When their work is done, they do not linger.

And, by not lingering, merit never deserts them.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Darkstar

[thelerner]

'liked' the above only because its so well written.

[soaring crane]

you know, another alternative would be to do without the whole idea.

[Taomeow]

I still like "thank you."  And Thelearner's "Outstanding." I wouldn't want 17 buttons though, I think that's an overkill. 

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OP/Thread Moderator's reminder

 to Darkstar: 

 

This is the Wei Wu Wei, aka Anarch, section.  You just told the OP that the subject natter she opened this thread to discuss is "out of line with Daoism."  This is not the appropriate section for such comments. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Taomeow

[eye_of_the_storm]

I like thank you also, I guess outstanding becomes apparent with the more thanks given.

 

[blue eyed snake]

I still like "thank you."  And Thelearner's "Outstanding." I wouldn't want 17 buttons though, I think that's an overkill. 

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OP/Thread Moderator's reminder

 to Darkstar: 

 

This is the Wei Wu Wei, aka Anarch, section.  You just told the OP that the subject natter she opened this thread to discuss is "out of line with Daoism."  This is not the appropriate section for such comments. 

 

that gave me a belly-laugh, therefore I 'liked' it

[blue eyed snake]

I do think the likebutton is 'facebookish' .. it surprised me when i joined up here.

 

I'm grateful there is no 'dislike'button, for both liking and disliking are judgments of a sort. And sometimes I read things that I know, would there have been a dislike button, i probably would have used it... ( so much for selfknowledge) and regretted that action the moment i did it.

 

I'm not really a daoist, I've read the TTC a few times, that's all.

 Like, or noteworthy are judgements. But it feels to me that judging is not something to 'like'. Something like thankyou is more a personal and emotional expression i think, therefore it feels better to me.

 

I can thank someone for a belly laugh, or an insight, or a way of putting something intowords that makes things clearer, i like the idea of a 'thankyou'button

 

A whole row of buttons doesn't feel so good for me for about the same reason, I try to teach myself to judge less and to love more...aint easy yet.

 

 

[Daeluin]

I feel a thank you button would be less emotionally personal than a like button, and therefore more utilized. At the same time I worry we would lose a level of intimacy by making this change. If is is not always easy to like something, then it means more.

 

That said, I also feel naming the button "Gratitude" would be more personal than "Thank You," and more similar to "Like" in terms of the emotional connection. These days I feel we use thank you all the time, and it doesn't always mean a whole lot, doesn't always connect to the heart. But I hope that gratitude does mean a little more, and does connect a little more to the heart. At least it seems to for me.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Daeluin