cross-cultural relationships

[arnquist]

I might as well be straight forward about this, I'm a bit of a Japanophile. I love the language, history, flashy technology, super convenient public transportation, videogames, anime, karaoke, martial arts, Japanese food, sense of community and loyalty, love for all things cute, etc. Yes, I know Japan has a dark side too, conformity to authority over individuality can lead to unfairness, there's a general distrust of foreigners, pornography is everywhere, politeness is often just for show, and the language can be frustratingly ambiguous. Nevertheless I am drawn to Japan, so much so that I'm considering living there permanently, or at least for several years, and I'm also drawn to the idea of marrying a Japanese girl. So I've been looking around at dating and matching sites and found this little gem. I laughed so hard when I read this. This site is all about capitalizing on the "submissive Asian woman" stereotype.

 

http://www.nomarriage.com/x/japanesewife.html

 

Nothing against American women, but I've always had trouble connecting with them and I think this radical feminism described here has something to do with it. Although, I'm sure a lot of it is just in my own head too. Still, the only serious relationship I've been able to have in my life so far was with a German girl. I've always been frustrated by situations where women or minorities automatically get the moral high ground because they feel they've been "oppressed" or "discriminated against" when really they just want special treatment. Anyways, *steps off angst-filled white boy soap box* just curious, does anyone have any advice, experience or amusing anecdotes about cross-cultural relationships?

[Sahaj Nath]

I might as well be straight forward about this, I'm a bit of a Japanophile. I love the language, history, flashy technology, super convenient public transportation, videogames, anime, karaoke, martial arts, Japanese food, sense of community and loyalty, love for all things cute, etc. Yes, I know Japan has a dark side too, conformity to authority over individuality can lead to unfairness, there's a general distrust of foreigners, pornography is everywhere, politeness is often just for show, and the language can be frustratingly ambiguous. Nevertheless I am drawn to Japan, so much so that I'm considering living there permanently, or at least for several years, and I'm also drawn to the idea of marrying a Japanese girl. So I've been looking around at dating and matching sites and found this little gem. I laughed so hard when I read this. This site is all about capitalizing on the "submissive Asian woman" stereotype.

 

http://www.nomarriage.com/x/japanesewife.html

 

Nothing against American women, but I've always had trouble connecting with them and I think this radical feminism described here has something to do with it. Although, I'm sure a lot of it is just in my own head too. Still, the only serious relationship I've been able to have in my life so far was with a German girl. I've always been frustrated by situations where women or minorities automatically get the moral high ground because they feel they've been "oppressed" or "discriminated against" when really they just want special treatment. Anyways, *steps off angst-filled white boy soap box* just curious, does anyone have any advice, experience or amusing anecdotes about cross-cultural relationships?

 

 

maybe it's just me, but this post aggravated me a bit.

 

 

i spent the better part of last night a student of mine (a white guy) crying and confused about what to do for his girlfriend (an asian girl) who a few nights ago shared that she had been molested by her father years ago and her mother didn't believe her.

 

 

i'm sure you didn't mean to come across the way that this post hits me (and i'm not really sure why a post like this is even here), but you really have no idea what any woman you meet has been through.

 

"oppressed" and "discriminated against" aren't words that do a very good job of shedding light on the fact that 1 in 3 women on college campuses have been sexually assaulted at some point in their lifetime. and that's just women who come forward and say something. it's very possible that over half the female population has been assaulted but us men who have the privilege of just not getting what the problem is. how convenient, given that WE seem to be the problem.

 

feminism didn't create the problems; it created empowerment to combat the problems.

 

i don't even want to follow the link.

 

 

i'm sure you didn't mean to be offensive with your post, but this offends me.

[rain]

..........

Edited April 17, 2008 by rain

[arnquist]

I'm sorry, didn't mean to offend or be flippant about the matter. I'll admit, my complaint is really tiny and pathetic compared to the struggles of those who really are oppressed, abused and discriminated against. Having to hear the occasional "all men are pigs" and such thrown around is no big deal compared to that. But whiny and pathetic as I may be, I think I'm still allowed to voice my opinion and seek a little sympathy.

 

As far as what this post is doing here? I dunno, I figure anything is fair game since the Tao is everything.

[gendao]

"oppressed" and "discriminated against" aren't words that do a very good job of shedding light on the fact that 1 in 3 women on college campuses have been sexually assaulted at some point in their lifetime.

 

feminism didn't create the problems; it created empowerment to combat the problems.

BS. If you really study Anglo-feminism...you will be surprised to learn that most of their stats are completely cooked.

 

The only guys who believe these unbacked claims without question do so because...they still naively believe in outdated stereotypes of women as the weaker, more chaste, "nobler" sex. Quite ironic, indeed.

 

As for the "1/4 of coeds have been raped" claim:

This mother of all factoids is based on a fallacious feminist study commissioned by Ms. magazine. The researcher, Mary Koss, hand-picked by hard-line feminist Gloria Steinem, acknowledges that 73 percent of the young women she counted as rape victims were not aware they had been raped. Forty-three percent of them were dating their "attacker" again. - Wendy McElroy

In the FBI's behavioral Science Unit's study of False Allegations conducted in 1983 of 556 rape investigations, a total of 220 (40%) of these reported rapes turned out to be false. Over one fourth of these 556 turned out to be hoaxes.

1/3 of men accused, tried, convicted, and imprisoned for rape mismatch the DNA.

Yup, you've been HOODWINKED, dude!

 

Now as far as Japanese women...definitely you will be better off with any foreign women...but Anglo-misandrism is spreading far and wide these days so don't let your guard down either.. Divorce and other modern Anglo ills are sharply on the rise there now too.

The divorce rate in Japan has risen by 26.5% in 10 years, according to the health ministry.

 

The number of divorces among couples married for 20 years or more hit 42,000 in 2004, double those recorded in 1985.

 

Divorces among those married for more than 30 years quadrupled during the same period.

Anyhow, no offense to the ladies here...I actually believe that women getting more in touch with their natural Yin power (like in Taoism) is far healthier for both them, and us. This actually counteracts the problem I see with Anglo-feminism and their drag-king Yang-posturing - which ultimately derives from a total ignorance of the true power of Yin femininity. Honestly, if all these angry feminists only knew...

[rain]

BS. If you really study Anglo-feminism...you will be surprised to learn that most of their stats are completely cooked.

 

The only guys who believe these unbacked claims without question do so because...they still naively believe in outdated stereotypes of women as the weaker, more chaste, "nobler" sex. Quite ironic, indeed.

 

As for the "1/4 of coeds have been raped" claim:

Yup, you've been HOODWINKED, dude!

 

Now as far as Japanese women...definitely you will be better off with any foreign women...but Anglo-misandrism is spreading far and wide these days so don't let your guard down either.. Divorce and other modern Anglo ills are sharply on the rise there now too.

Anyhow, no offense to the ladies here...I actually believe that women getting more in touch with their natural Yin power (like in Taoism) is far healthier for both them, and us. This actually counteracts the problem I see with Anglo-feminism and their drag-king Yang-posturing - which ultimately derives from a total ignorance of the true power of Yin femininity.

 

the women here are diverse. i myself have attracted all sexes. gays, lesbians, and heteros.

i think my incarnation here has a lot to do with learning about the different cultural stereotyped frames for gender.

i am hetero but first of all - a person. i am not convinced that a western male necessarily finds his ultimate spouse for cultivation in an eastern woman. i can approve and understand both intellectually and emotionally, but i think it can reflect "an easy way out". that is you are skipping the fact that you are also genderless. you are a person. i think you are trying to postpone the final confrontation with what happens to sex when you fully accept this. you unconsciously think you are going to deflate if you're not sure you are male. you are clinging to your yang.

 

i give diddlysquat for your links on false reports. hunduns statistics are trustwothy.

[gendao]

i am hetero but first of all - a person. i am not convinced that a western male necessarily finds his ultimate spouse for cultivation in an eastern woman. i can approve and understand both intellectually and emotionally, but i think it can reflect "an easy way out". that is you are skipping the fact that you are also genderless. you are a person. i think you are trying to postpone the final confrontation with what happens to sex when you fully accept this. you unconsciously think you are going to deflate if you're not sure you are male. you are clinging to your yang.

 

i give diddlysquat for your links on false reports. hunduns statistics are trustwothy.

Well, a naturally Yang male (Eastern or Western) is best paired with a naturally Yin female (Eastern or Western). Maybe that's an "easy way out" - but when you are in a healthy natural balance - things should be easy.

 

And in my current incarnation, I am not genderless. I am male. So, that is what I have to work with in the here and now.

 

Well, obviously you are simply going to believe whatever you want to believe - factual or not. Personally, I try to form my own opinions based upon personal research - not mass rhetoric.

[rain]

............

Edited April 17, 2008 by rain

[Sahaj Nath]

Personally, I try to form my own opinions based upon personal research - not mass rhetoric.

 

--then do some real research and then get back to me. ms. magazine didn't corner the market of sexual assault stats.

 

i've done the research. i've been out of the academic loop for a few years now, but i used to teach policy analysis and research methods, not to mention social theory, which included feminism (and not just the anglo variety).

 

if you really want to throw down on this, we should probably start a separate thread, or take this off the board completely.

 

 

 

here's what i can state without digging into my research files:

 

the vast majority of my friends are women. of them, i know maybe 2 who have NOT experienced some form of sexual assault. (btw: the stats i'm referencing weren't rape stats; they were sexual assault stats. kinda hard to do credible research if you're conflating terms.)

 

 

the fact that a woman might be dating someone who once assaulted her occurs for a number of reasons. you're jumping to unsupported conclusions from that data, which is what the author is hoping for. that's the very definition of bogus research.

 

same goes for the "were not aware they had been raped" statement. many girls still feel like if they were too afraid or too drunk or for whatever reason failed to vocalize a "no," then it doesn't count as rape. THIS is one of the many reasons why the work of feminism is so important.

 

 

i'm just gonna leave at that for the time being.

 

 

if you want to go there, we can go there.

 

 

we can dialog or we can debate.

[arnquist]

Well, this certainly took a turn I didn't expect. I don't mind though, this is actually really interesting. I'm pretty ignorant on this topic so I'd like to learn more. I say keep the discussion on the boards and just try to keep things polite as much as possible.

[Cameron]

Balance!

[gendao]

Rain - maybe we don't anymore? I was just clarifying...

--then do some real research and then get back to me. ms. magazine didn't corner the market of sexual assault stats.

 

i've done the research. i've been out of the academic loop for a few years now, but i used to teach policy analysis and research methods, not to mention social theory, which included feminism (and not just the anglo variety).

 

same goes for the "were not aware they had been raped" statement. many girls still feel like if they were too afraid or too drunk or for whatever reason failed to vocalize a "no," then it doesn't count as rape. THIS is one of the many reasons why the work of feminism is so important.

Ah, but most of the feminist rhetoric today does stem from a tiny handful of very poor feminist polling from decades ago. I mean, when you really trace the stats back, most of them were started by very leading, unscientific "studies" like the one in Ms. Magazine. But after simply being repeated for so many years, became accepted as truth.

 

I cited rape instead of sexual assault, because it is a little more concrete, definable, objective & measurable.

 

"Sexual assault" is a much broader and loosely-defined term. Here's the definition from the US Dept of Health & Human Services:

Sexual assault can be verbal, visual, or anything that forces a person to join in unwanted sexual contact or attention. Examples of this are voyeurism (when someone watches private sexual acts), exhibitionism (when someone exposes him/herself in public), incest (sexual contact between family members), and sexual harassment.

Well, yea by THAT definition...a girl who gets hit on by some geek in high school got unwanted sexual attention...and thus was "sexually assaulted."

 

Problem is, "sexual assault" sounds just as bad as "rape" to lay people...even though it could be as innocent as unwanted flirtation. Which again, fits into the overall pattern of exaggerating and sensationalizing the fear of men.

 

And just because a woman is drunk does not mean she can't give consent. If she's passed out yes, but merely drunk? No. In fact, a lot of girls purposely drink up so they CAN have more sex (by removing inhibitions). But the average woman who avoids substance abuse and bad boys...has little to fear about getting raped. Really, it's just a handful of guys who give the rest of us a bad name...buuttt it's that same small handful that women are irresistably attracted to time and again!

[freeform]

Now as far as Japanese women...definitely you will be better off with any foreign women...

 

I reckon this attraction to members outside your 'tribe' has two reasons - one evolutionary and another one is that differences in language and habitual memes often facillitate a much deeper connection - beyond the superficial.

[gendao]

I reckon this attraction to members outside your 'tribe' has two reasons - one evolutionary and another one is that differences in language and habitual memes often facillitate a much deeper connection - beyond the superficial.

Well, it's not so much the hardware as the software. When fed a steady diet of misandrism, brand name-consumerism, isolationist propaganda, Britney Spears and drugs/alcohol for several decades...well, you reap what you sow. Women raised outside this cultural matrix just have a deeper, more natural persona that I personally find more appealing.

 

But everyone's an individual so this is just a very broad generalization, nothing more, nothing less...

 

Besides, no woman in this country has trouble getting a date...and could care less about dating me anyways...so no sweat off their backs!

Edited October 12, 2007 by vortex

[mYTHmAKER]

I reckon this attraction to members outside your 'tribe' has two reasons - one evolutionary and another one is that differences in language and habitual memes often facillitate a much deeper connection - beyond the superficial.

 

The superficial can be important in sustaining a long term relationship

We are attracted to people outside our culture because they are exotic. Yin - yang.

You can never truly understand someone if you have language differences, cultural differences,

too great age differences.

Of course there will be exceptions.

[VeeCee]

Okay - first off, I find this conversation really offensive. Vortex - you have no idea what it means to be a woman in this culture or any other. You have not been sexually abused by a father, or an uncle, or any other male figure who you looked up to, admired, and thought was looking out for your best interest. I have been. My sisters have been. Other women I know have been. So don't start spouting off about concocted figures from some poll done decades ago. Hundun - thank you for your reasoned response. It is gratifying to know that some men actually DO get it.

[gendao]

Edited October 12, 2007 by vortex

[arnquist]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. "I'm offended" therefore I'm right and you're wrong. I'm sure someone's statistics are off, but that's not even the point. Yes, I do have no idea what it's like like to be a woman. Yes, you've been through a lot more than I have. But have you taken the time to think about how intimidating and unfair feminism can be for some guys? I just hate being judged, stereotyped, mistrusted and misinterpreted for my gender, something entirely beyond my control. I think any human being can relate to that.

[xenolith]

bleep.

Edited October 12, 2007 by xenolith

[VeeCee]

All right - let's be clear about this. Both men and women can be good or bad - it's not a gender thing. I have a problem when people start making broad-brush statements about all men are this or all women are that.

 

Vortex - I did not say your stats were concocted. You said that most stats used by "feminists" are concocted!

 

BTW - all of this discussion about whose stats are correct does not address the original question on this thread. So how 'bout we drop the sexual abuse issue and start talking about cross-cultural issues.

Edited October 12, 2007 by VeeCee

[Cameron]

VeeCee sorry to hear about your experience. I think this is more of a widespead issue than most people care to admit.

 

My sense is we are just clueless as a culture when it comes to sexual energy-the most powerful and potentially beautiful energy inside us.

 

My sense is there is just a huge gap of people not being taught how to 'handle' there energy in a balanced way.

 

One of the most inspiring things I have heard in my life is when Lama Max said how children are taught this stuff from an early age. So they get the awakening stuff and energy cultivaiton stuff in the Temple from an early age.

 

We are just soooooo beginners over here. Probably we knew alot before in ancient times but lost it somehow.

 

Anyway, I enver went through anything like what sounds like you did. But the sex arena can be either amazingly awesome or unpleasant as you know of course. But after being with Lama Max really feels like for the first time it's ok to just open up and relaz about all that sort of stuff. Almost like we are all just children having these different learning experiences and hopefully growing along the path.

 

Love,

 

Cameron

[VeeCee]

Cam -

 

Thanks for your kind words. I am certainly not trying to turn this thread into a flame against men. Some of my best friends are men.

 

I think you're right that it has a lot to do with how our society deals with sexuality, which is certainly not healthy. Would like to see western culture take a different attitude - but it's so engrained in our society that I think it will take a long time to turn it around.

 

V.

[Cameron]

Have to improve on an individual basis.

[rain]

"...my battle is against a gross cultural distortion based upon lies upon lies! And frankly, I don't see why ANYONE should honestly have a problem with that? "

 

think many of us agree

 

"Why steal someone's energy when you have your own and can get it directly from the universe itself? "

 

.ohh ...here we go again..

 

"At the kunlun seminar, women were naturals since it's a Yin art. "

 

??? say that again please is kick-boxing a yang art then? what is this? if i am a woman i should not work with my yang?, or do you mean since we ascend shen and ground it's yin art?.

 

"Anglo-feminists worship Yang power instead and have led a lot of women away from their true potentials like these. And that's a great loss to both them and our society."

 

..you an anti-anglo-feminist. and? so? i assure you that the assaults on women are grossly underreported.

 

i am not offended. i just see things differently than you.

finally i am so sorry veecee i truly am. I've been knocked down a few times myself. life is such a precious thing.

 

"But have you taken the time to think about how intimidating and unfair feminism can be for some guys?"

 

YES!

 

Know that i respect and love my father and my husband deeply, that goes for my brothers too.

Edited October 13, 2007 by rain

[VeeCee]

finally i am so sorry veecee i truly am. I've been knocked down a few times myself. life is such a precious thing.

 

Thanks rain. Agree with you on many of your points, but I'm still not sure how we went from cross-cultural issues to sexual abuse.