silent thunder Posted October 18, 2013 Embryonic breath... Tao behaves like a bellows... Inexaustible. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
81chapters Posted October 23, 2013 According to Taoism, there is no reincarnation, no immortal soul and no afterlife. Your chi breaks apart after death, your conscious personality ceases to exist. Your chi will be recycled and used by Tao to create other beings. Read Waysun Liao's "Tao - The Way Of God" if you don't believe me. Liao is pretty clear about this fact. I can quote if you want. I'd respectfully have to disagree with this interpretation of "Tao: The Way of God." The author clearly states, in both this and his other material, that in addition to Chi we also have Te -- a piece of Tao or God inside us. As such it is immortal and indestructible and does indeed survive. That's why his teaching urges students to connect with their Te -- not just Chi. To miss this is to miss the whole point of the book. He does say Chi can fall away to be recycled, but Te continues on it's journey (in one direction or another) on it's return to Tao. It's too wonderful of a book to be misrepresented in such a manner. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) I'd respectfully have to disagree with this interpretation of "Tao: The Way of God." The author clearly states, in both this and his other material, that in addition to Chi we also have Te -- a piece of Tao or God inside us. As such it is immortal and indestructible and does indeed survive. That's why his teaching urges students to connect with their Te -- not just Chi. To miss this is to miss the whole point of the book. He does say Chi can fall away to be recycled, but Te continues on it's journey (in one direction or another) on it's return to Tao. It's too wonderful of a book to be misrepresented in such a manner. I don't misinterpret, you do...and you miss completely the point. Your TE "survives", You don't! You are your Yi, supported by your Chi, inside a material body. Your TE supports your existence, but it is not you. Your TE is a piece of Tao and then returns to Tao after you (Yi) have been destroyed by dying. Edited October 23, 2013 by Dorian Black Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted October 23, 2013 lol, what? You are your body, your Chi & your Yi. TE is a piece of Tao. what was said is: You are your body, your Chi & your Yi; AND TE is a piece of Tao INSIDE You 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted October 23, 2013 This echoes through many cultures, too. As the Quakers say, there is that of God in all of us (whatever "God" means...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted October 23, 2013 what was said is: You are your body, your Chi & your Yi; AND TE is a piece of Tao INSIDE You Lol, exactly! Therefore 81chapters did in fact not disagree with me in what he was writing, although he claimed such! Your TE might create another human after you have been destroyed. But you don't reincarnate. You have only this one life as your whole existence, according to Waysun Liao. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Lol, exactly! Therefore 81chapters did in fact not disagree with me in what he was writing, although he claimed such! Your TE might create another human after you have been destroyed. But you don't reincarnate. You have only this one life as your whole existence, according to Waysun Liao. I can't speak for the other post and apologize for coming in where I did to interject a quick read... My observation on these posts may be the difference in one defines "you". I understand 81Chapters (and I could be wrong) as saying that anything which makes up "you" is "you" and if that lives on... then "you" are living on... So if Chi or Te Live on... YOU live on. Your use of "you" seems to disassociate Qi and Te from onself... not sure if I am correct in that or not. I am not agreeing or disagreeing... I am trying to share how I view what was said. It is a fundamental question of what "You" means... purely physical... or does it have a prior source which it simply returns to... Edited October 23, 2013 by dawei 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) I can't speak for the other post and apologize for coming in where I did to interject a quick read... My observation on these posts may be the difference in one defines "you". I understand 81Chapters (and I could be wrong) as saying that anything which makes up "you" is "you" and if that lives on... then "you" are living on... So if Chi or Te Live on... YOU live on. Your use of "you" seems to disassociate Qi and Te from onself... not sure if I am correct in that or not. I am not agreeing or disagreeing... I am trying to share how I view what was said. It is a fundamental question of what "You" means... purely physical... or does it have a prior source which it simply returns to... Your TE is behind your energetic existence as your genetic code is behind your bodily existence. You will "reincarnate" in the further creations of your TE as much as you will "live on" in your genetic descendants... Edited October 23, 2013 by Dorian Black Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) It is a fundamental question of what "You" means... You = Yi = conscious awareness, mind, intent. Lol, I feel kinda like.... Edited October 23, 2013 by Dorian Black Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzuJanLi Posted October 24, 2013 Greetings According to Taoism, there is no reincarnation, no immortal soul and no afterlife. Your chi breaks apart after death, your conscious personality ceases to exist. Your chi will be recycled and used by Tao to create other beings. Read Waysun Liao's "Tao - The Way Of God" if you don't believe me. Liao is pretty clear about this fact. I can quote if you want. I pretty much agree, however there is a 'cosmic memory' of all that has ever happened, ever.. and the energetic signature of an experiencer tends to resonate with certain aspects of the cosmic memory, like prior experiences.. and, in stillness, it is possible to access the entirety of the cosmic memory, but that's quite another matter.. Be well.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
81chapters Posted October 24, 2013 That's a good point in questioning what is "you." Our Chi, ego, thoughts, personality are all the things we think of as ourselves, our soul, as 'me.' Liao spends a great deal of time showing how most of these things are artificial and that Te is the "True You." Those other things that break away for recycling were never the true 'you.' His writings and training suggest you can work to shift the center of your being into a connection with the True You while in this lifetime, by taking all of those components, and either purifying them or letting them go before you die (reduction) so that the True You becomes the center and directing force of your being. That's the ultimate goal of practice. It's not just something that happens after your death. It's something achievable in this lifetime. If it isn't, then why is everyone wasting time here on this board year after year? But even when Liao says that the Chi of someone who has not managed to reach the goal of connecting to Te falls away to be recycled at death - even that implies some form of afterlife -- even if it's not a sequential reincarnation as a unified soul. The recycled Chi does not cease to exist. if so he wouldn't have used the word "recycle." In the latest book, Restoring Your Life Energy, he says we've picked up some of these recycled bits of other people's Chi to form who we are today, and their history can impact us. So in a sense those echoes of used Chi inside us are an afterlife of sorts.... not an afterlife any of us might wish to strive for, but even the Chi part of ourselves does go on in some fashion. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted October 24, 2013 May I ask do you take what he says are given facts.......???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted October 24, 2013 In the latest book, Restoring Your Life Energy, he says we've picked up some of these recycled bits of other people's Chi to form who we are today, and their history can impact us. Some? 100% is appropriate. The programs in the recycled Chi, that constructs you, is in fact your "karma". And you misinterpret if you think that your TE is the real you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted October 24, 2013 Anybody had or have practicing methods from following book Primordial Breath: An Ancient Chinese Way of Prolonging Life Through Breath Control, Vol. 1 and Vol. 2? Although the thread is actually quote old, I did want to resurrect the original post concerning this book. SInce the thread started, did anyone get this book? Ironically I was handed this book last week by someone to read. Here is the cover at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Primordial-Breath-Ancient-Prolonging-Treaties/dp/0944558003 For H.E. The cover has these slits which appear to be like bamboo slips but it is actually the Jade Inscription... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
81chapters Posted October 24, 2013 May I ask do you take what he says are given facts.......???? "Facts" is one of those slippery words that seems better lumped in with human learning and knowledge, therefore artificial. I certainly don't think MY interpretation or opinion on what Liao teaches are facts -- just opinions. I've learned that what I carry around as a "fact" or "truth," I usually have to exchange at a later date for a better or higher fact or truth. Even what I think are facts that I've gleaned from reading this particular book, I let go of later when they evolve into different facts because my own understanding and spiritual maturity has grown. Unlike this individual's perceived "fact" below... Some? 100% is appropriate. The programs in the recycled Chi, that constructs you, is in fact your "karma". And you misinterpret if you think that your TE is the real you. Who is the "YOU" that has the karma if the Chi that makes up "you" is the karma? I haven't been able to fully answer that one yet, but I'll bet you can 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
81chapters Posted October 24, 2013 Although the thread is actually quote old, I did want to resurrect the original post concerning this book. SInce the thread started, did anyone get this book? Ironically I was handed this book last week by someone to read. Here is the cover at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Primordial-Breath-Ancient-Prolonging-Treaties/dp/0944558003 For H.E. The cover has these slits which appear to be like bamboo slips but it is actually the Jade Inscription... Just put both my volumes up for sale --- read them years ago and have been collecting dust ever since. So many of the practices by the multiple authors seem to contradict themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted October 24, 2013 Just put both my volumes up for sale --- read them years ago and have been collecting dust ever since. So many of the practices by the multiple authors seem to contradict themselves. I have only quickly skimmed it to get the gist... and while I see the obvious common thread of breathing, it did seem more like a puzzle to put together when they are not talking the same words or ways. I also had a similar sense reading Taoist Yoga by Lu Kuan Yu. The preface seemed the most ordered and explained part. And to be honest, I think that also is the case a little bit with Yang's Embryonic Breathing; one has to piece together the various translations to see how they fit towards a system (but I know he spells out the system eventually). This last book is my favorite due to the translations. Do you have any comparisons between these three? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted October 24, 2013 Who is the "YOU" that has the karma if the Chi that makes up "you" is the karma? I haven't been able to fully answer that one yet, but I'll bet you can Your TE took whatever Chi was available to construct you. Your chi is a conglomerate of pieces/quantums of chi which were already used many times before to construct the life energy systems of other beings. Therefore these pieces of chi have programs/informations. All these informations in the chi that constructs you is your "karma". Not of past lives of you but of past lives of other beings that used this chi. You are your Yi, the mind and personality of this creature constructed from your TE out of chi and matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
81chapters Posted October 24, 2013 Your TE took whatever Chi was available to construct you. Your chi is a conglomerate of pieces/quantums of chi which were already used many times before to construct the life energy systems of other beings. Therefore these pieces of chi have programs/informations. All these informations in the chi that constructs you is your "karma". Not of past lives of you but of past lives of other beings that used this chi. You are your Yi, the mind and personality of this creature constructed from your TE out of chi and matter. What a sorry state we are in then, just as Liao says, since our mind and personality are indeed fueled by and influenced from damaged signals emanating from old chi. If that is what you want to embrace as "YOU" -- be my guest. I'm working to burn that off or at least transmute it. It seems in your definition we are just a transitory amalgam of suffering karma held together because we like to consider that our "self." Maybe that's why this world is so crazy. Exchanging that for Te sounds better to me. Gotta go guys. I have a day job. I'll keep lurking around like I have for the last 5-6 years and maybe pop in again later. Best wishes to you all! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted October 24, 2013 (edited) What a sorry state we are in then, just as Liao says, since our mind and personality are indeed fueled by and influenced from damaged signals emanating from old chi. ...plus by our genetic programs, our upbringing, our education, our experiences. If that is what you want to embrace as "YOU" -- be my guest. Your karma is not you, your Yi is you! Are you not able to understand that? Btw, we don't have something else what we could embrace as "I" than our Yi (=personality/mind). If you want to embrace your TE as "you" that's as absurd as embracing your father or mother or your DNA as "you". I'm working to burn that off or at least transmute it. By "moving meditation"? Good Luck, mate... It seems in your definition we are just a transitory amalgam of suffering karma held together because we like to consider that our "self." No. This stuff is part of the psychological base of your Yi. It is not your Yi. Maybe that's why this world is so crazy. Exchanging that for Te sounds better to me. Yes! You are GOD! You just have to realize it! ...by destroying what you really are! You seem to have a pretty unhealthy relationship with yourself! Do you hate yourself? I mean do you hate your Ego? Edited October 24, 2013 by Dorian Black Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted October 24, 2013 Are ya gonna relate that one to EB? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
81chapters Posted October 24, 2013 Dorian --- whew. So you've dismissed the idea of embracing Te as absurd. But yet you want everyone to simply remember they are God. And you say that our ego and mind are what we are as a self, so our ego and mind are God? And if we don't embrace our ego and our mind, we hate ourselves? I think you've managed to invert centuries of eastern and western religion in upon itself to create a hybrid of Oprah-ism mixed with the snake's promise when offering Eve the apple in the garden. And you assert yourself with such authority about it - no timidity at all. That rumble you hear is most likely Lao Tzu, Buddha, Moses and Jesus all rolling in their graves. Readers beware -- this gentleman's opinion on Taoism and various teachers and books are his own. Please don't allow his air of authority to color your experience. The book we were originally discussing says no such thing in my view and the view of most other people I know who have read it. Sorry for the thread-jack on the embryonic breathing topic. Fine topic and actually related to all of this on some level. Now I really must go. I am already surrounded by folks in my offline life who feel that confident assertion of their beliefs is mastery. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted October 24, 2013 (edited) Dorian --- whew. So you've dismissed the idea of embracing Te as absurd. But yet you want everyone to simply remember they are God. And you say that our ego and mind are what we are as a self, so our ego and mind are God? And if we don't embrace our ego and our mind, we hate ourselves? ??? "our ego and mind are what we are as a self" That's right. And if we don't embrace our ego and our mind, we hate ourselves? Most likely, yes. But I didn't claim the rest of your statement. Edited October 24, 2013 by Dorian Black Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xor Posted October 24, 2013 There's the ego of psychology and then there are other things translated as ego. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
