I feel like I need to close my eyes during practice

[tlkdww]

Hello all,

 

I have many many questions, but what's been really on my mind lately is why I feel like I need to close my eyes during my tai chi practice.

 

This hadn't happened before... I understand that in some traditions you close your eyes during meditation/others but in the tradition I'm following you want to have your eyes open to be grounded, have awareness and be connected, and not drift off into your own little world.

 

It's not like I'm tired and get sleepy, I don't think it's because I achieve relaxation, it's hard to explain.

 

A lot of things happen to me all the time, phyisical changes and just weird feelings, and understanding what is happening helps me a lot.

 

Has anyone of you ever experienced something like this before?

[Rara]

I don't practice Tai Chi (yet...I may start in the future) but I have had the same need in meditation and during wing chun forms.

 

I would say it is down to where you are at in your development, so allow it to happen. If it breaks tradition or dogma, so what? The "right way" will emerge by itself in due course.

 

This is yourself figuring it out...sounds like you are learning how to "feel". Once you have figured "it" out, I'm sure your eyes will open again.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Rara

[soaring crane]

yeah, Taiji / Qigong and really all the Taoist-based practices are generally performed with open eyes, it's part of the practice. But these phases do come up where for whatever reason, you just want to close them. At the same time, it's important to get past the western urge to over-analyze everything and I feel this could be a good opportunity for you to practice that discipline. What I mean is, as Rara says, let your eyes close because that's what they want to do right now, but keep your head clear of worry and overthinking. After a while, you'll be practicing with open eyes again.

 

They might be closing as a way of turning off some of the sensory feedback, in order to allow the Taiji movements to settle deeper into your bones, so to speak.

 

But Taiji is a martial art in the end and it'd be pretty dangerous to enter a fight with your eyes closed, unless you're a Shaolin monk, Grasshopper.

[fizix]

You need to close your eyes...  because as the De Jing says, darkness gives birth to light. If you desire a light feather rainbow body, you must be reborn in the empty abyss of clear light.

[soaring crane]

You need to close your eyes...  because as the De Jing says, darkness gives birth to light. If you desire a light feather rainbow body, you must be reborn in the empty abyss of clear light.

 

you do understand that he's talking about practicing Taiji, right? Also, that not everyone longs to be reborn in the empty abyss of clear light with a rainbow body?

[tlkdww]

Thank you all! That's really helpful.

 

I try to trust my instincts but I do get scared sometimes... I'll let it be and let you know how it goes!

[Rara]

Thank you all! That's really helpful.

 

I try to trust my instincts but I do get scared sometimes... I'll let it be and let you know how it goes!

Hehe, never be scared.

 

You're learning a lot today

[tlkdww]

The things is I've been practicing for 3 years now and have never felt the urge to close my eyes. Doing that makes me disconnect from the group, which would be great sometimes (lol) but that's not the instruction and I trust the teacher and the teachings.

 

The difference now is that at some time when I'm practicing, my eyes will want to close (eyelids feeling incredibly heavy) and I will close them. Then I'll remember I'm supposed to keep them open and force myself to open them.

 

Like I said, it's not because I'm tired or whatever, it just happens, without consciously intending to,

 

When it happens I'll just stop and sit down in a meditative posture and feel confused. I'll try to explore it further and let you guys know.

[soaring crane]

 

When it happens I'll just stop and sit down in a meditative posture and feel confused. I'll try to explore it further and let you guys know.

 

Oh, you didn't mention that in your original post and it's now not clear to me if this is happening when you're practicing on your own or during group instruction.

 

It could be you're either practicing too much (yep, it's possible, and even easy to do) or, well, doing something wrong. What that could be, I have no idea and no way of telling. To diagonose it, I'd start with your breating habits, but that doesn't have to mean anything.

 

Some things to think about:

 

Have you mentioned this to your teacher (if it's happeing when you practice alone)? Do you do a warm-up routine? A concluding ritual? Are you geneally fit? Take care of your health in other ways? Get out in the fresh air often? Live a generally uncomplicated, simple life?

 

Btw, groups are only for learning. Taiji/Qigong is always an individual practice. Try not to get overly meditative when in the group. Look at it as a purely gymnastic activity.

[mYTHmAKER]

Balance is bettter with eyes open

eyes need to be open for intention

in general use peripheral vision

eyes follow the leading hand or foot

 

[soaring crane]

Balance is bettter with eyes open

eyes need to be open for intention

in general use peripheral vision

eyes follow the leading hand or foot

 

yeah, seems his/her teacher tells him/her as much, but s/he's having a problem following that angle at the moment.

 

Also, I'm not 100% clear on what you mean by follow but, don't look at your hands or feet.

[mYTHmAKER]

yeah, seems his/her teacher tells him/her as much, but s/he's having a problem following that angle at the moment.

 

Also, I'm not 100% clear on what you mean by follow but, don't look at your hands or feet.

If my arm extends to strike my eyes follow, if my foot swings. kicks my eyes follow

My focus is in the direction i am moving.

Try punching to the side and looking to the front

Try punching to the side and looking to the side in the direction of the punch

Feel the difference

[Bearded Dragon]

You want to get to a stage where it just happens. It's presumably starting to go like that. Then you can have two types of practice. One where you do it and think about what you're doing, refine the movements, etc. Then the other one you don't want to think about it at all as you're practicing taiji in the true sense of being outside yin and yang.

[Rara]

Oh, you didn't mention that in your original post and it's now not clear to me if this is happening when you're practicing on your own or during group instruction.

 

Some things to think about:

 

Have you mentioned this to your teacher (if it's happeing when you practice alone)?

Yeah... +1

 

The teacher can't always tell you what to do though. They can point in the right direction but as you know the instruction, I wouldn't fear being rebellious XD You're only trying to learn and often, doing the wrong thing helps us learn faster!

Edited April 28, 2015 by Rara

[tlkdww]

I haven't mentioned this to my teacher yet. I will if it doesn't pass or worsens. I thought maybe one of you had felt something similar and could help me understand.

 

It's only been happening in class since I don't really practice at home... I don't practice at home because everything gets crazy intense. Practicing in groups is much easier sometimes (or sometimes it will drain me completely) and helps me open consciousness vs. focusing so much on myself. When I get stable I'll practice at home.

 

I'm not really fit. I've had JRA for a decade now and am taking medication. I cannot say I'm doing it against my will even though I hate the fact that I'm taking it. Basically I still live with my parents and the two attempts I've made to get out of my house, live independently and quit meds has always resulted in me being more dependent on them (relapsed and couldn't be self sufficient). Therefore, I think there's a reason why I'm still with them and I should stay. I believe that, at the right time, an opportunity will present itself for me to get out and quit medication, and so it will be. For now, for my mental and emotional health, I have to be acceptant.

 

I take care of myself by eating well (according to Ayurveda most of the time) and try to live simply. Mentally and emotionally I've made a lot of progress over these past 3 years and have overcome a lot of bad habits (negative and self destructive thoughts and emotions).

 

I'm just trying to do the best I can with what I've got at the moment.

 

Thanks again for everyone's help and input!

[Rara]

I haven't mentioned this to my teacher yet. I will if it doesn't pass or worsens. I thought maybe one of you had felt something similar and could help me understand.

 

It's only been happening in class since I don't really practice at home... I don't practice at home because everything gets crazy intense. Practicing in groups is much easier sometimes (or sometimes it will drain me completely) and helps me open consciousness vs. focusing so much on myself. When I get stable I'll practice at home.

 

I'm not really fit. I've had JRA for a decade now and am taking medication. I cannot say I'm doing it against my will even though I hate the fact that I'm taking it. Basically I still live with my parents and the two attempts I've made to get out of my house, live independently and quit meds has always resulted in me being more dependent on them (relapsed and couldn't be self sufficient). Therefore, I think there's a reason why I'm still with them and I should stay. I believe that, at the right time, an opportunity will present itself for me to get out and quit medication, and so it will be. For now, for my mental and emotional health, I have to be acceptant.

 

I take care of myself by eating well (according to Ayurveda most of the time) and try to live simply. Mentally and emotionally I've made a lot of progress over these past 3 years and have overcome a lot of bad habits (negative and self destructive thoughts and emotions).

 

I'm just trying to do the best I can with what I've got at the moment.

 

Thanks again for everyone's help and input!

All I can say is keep going and keep us posted. Your motives are in the right place You'll be just fine.

[tlkdww]

Thanks Rara! I appreciate it!

[Meroe]

Btw, groups are only for learning. Taiji/Qigong is always an individual practice. Try not to get overly meditative when in the group. Look at it as a purely gymnastic activity.

 

I dont agree with this. in the dragon gate tradition, we practice together, to a multiplicative effect. in laymans terms, the positive lifeforce that is generated in the individual practicioner also radiates, now add more people to the equation, and you'll see why this is. this includes standing postures, general chi gong, sword forms etc.... the head teacher also transmitts chi to help with progress. its definitely an individual journey, but there is merit to practicing together, other than strictly instruction.

 

as for the OP... i find that closing my eyes during practice occasionally helps to hone in on the meridians and the dans during practice. its hard to explain but its like they "light up" in the abscense of external stimuli. if its something like that for you too then id say dont think to hard about it.... if you feel like you HAVE to... then theres something wrong. id recommend letting your teacher know asap, though.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Meroe

[Spotless]

I now practice Qi Gong with my eyes closed nearly all of the time.

 

I have had to become use to keeping them open now when I teach though I still have them closed much of the time.

 

My master often has his eyes closed while teaching.

 

If this works for you and you are able to do it where it is not a distraction - it is a very high practice form.

I do not mean to imply it is better than eyes open or higher, but if you settle into this well then your balance will speak for itself - a grounded awareness is necessary for this to work otherwise you will be hitting the ground or staggering.

 

In Qi Gong the practice is typically at least 4 times slower than in class.

As one progresses to high levels the speed is about 8 times slower or more.

Obviously not in all forms and at all times, but the enormous power and exquisitely delicate feelings will bring you down to speeds that are from slow to nearly imperceptible (super slo-mo). And for this you will have your eyes closed (though not all are like this).

 

By the way - some of you are aware that I am not a trance advocate - rather the opposite - so I am not advocating here trance dance like movements with eyes closed. One can close ones eyes in movement practice and be quite out of trance - in fact it may be hard to do specific movements without being in-body to a heightened degree and whereby trance would most certainly be counter productive if not impossible for the practitioner.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

Oh, you didn't mention that in your original post and it's now not clear to me if this is happening when you're practicing on your own or during group instruction.

 

It could be you're either practicing too much (yep, it's possible, and even easy to do) or, well, doing something wrong. What that could be, I have no idea and no way of telling. To diagonose it, I'd start with your breating habits, but that doesn't have to mean anything.

 

Some things to think about:

 

Have you mentioned this to your teacher (if it's happeing when you practice alone)? Do you do a warm-up routine? A concluding ritual? Are you geneally fit? Take care of your health in other ways? Get out in the fresh air often? Live a generally uncomplicated, simple life?

 

Btw, groups are only for learning. Taiji/Qigong is always an individual practice. Try not to get overly meditative when in the group. Look at it as a purely gymnastic activity.

I would definitely disagree with the following quote from above:

"Btw, groups are only for learning. Taiji/Qigong is always an individual practice. Try not to get overly meditative when in the group. Look at it as a purely gymnastic activity."

 

Ouch!

I would recommend to Never look upon your group activity as "purely gymnastic activity". In fact I would recommend that you never even equate this type of work with "purely gymnastic activity". This is what the West has done to much of what it calls "Yoga".

You can even buy $1,000 yoga pants.

I was a ski racer and I know what working out is - with correct mindset and approach, this is not "working out" though it could be for some, but it would not be Qi Gong or Tai Qi, it would be "jump rope Chinese style" with a more varied approach than just jumping up and down.

 

Qi Gong and its descendant forms are rooted in deeply spiritual practice. The depth is astounding and can take you all the way to awakening. The astounding levels will be found in personal practice or private practice with a high master or in inner circle work with very few students - do not let the misunderstanding of the many have you pass over this underlying foundational aspect of the teaching - this is not calisthenics and group work has great value if the teacher recognizes its merit beyond just size of class.

Properly done, group work should be of enormous benefit - though a simple weekly meeting or two without coupling with it any teaching is fine as well, but even with this mindset and guidance for you personal practice should hopefully include all the progression information for those going forward and not just interested in the mundane aspects.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Spotless

[soaring crane]

To the counter-opinions to my statement that Taiji/Qigong isn't group practice, I can agree that the way I worded it "purely gymnastic activity" is an overstatement or oversimplification, but I stand by my basic idea that groups are for learning and that the goal is to support and improve on the individual experience. I would in fact caution against becoming dependent on the group for your practice as this can very easily and very often does hinder your personal development.

 

This doesn't mean you can or shouldn't at times practice with the group, but no teacher can breathe for you and any teacher worth his or her salt should be insisting that you practice the learned material on your own, and make clear that your personal practice is the ultimate goal.

 

I'm writing specifically about learning forms here, btw. Group energetic work is in a completely different category.

[Spotless]

To the counter-opinions to my statement that Taiji/Qigong isn't group practice, I can agree that the way I worded it "purely gymnastic activity" is an overstatement or oversimplification, but I stand by my basic idea that groups are for learning and that the goal is to support and improve on the individual experience. I would in fact caution against becoming dependent on the group for your practice as this can very easily and very often does hinder your personal development.

 

This doesn't mean you can or shouldn't at times practice with the group, no teacher can breathe for you and any teacher worth his or her salt should be insisting that you practice the learned material on your own, and make clear that your personal practice is the ultimate goal.

 

I'm writing specifically about learning forms here, btw. Group energetic work is in a completely different category.

I agree with the general tenor of this response.

It should also be noted that -

High inner circle teaching and practice with a true Master present is significant and can be of an intensity hard to muster on ones own even in a 10 hours plus single meditation sitting.

In such a setting the master may not participate in any way other than to serve tea before and after, but he gets to see you practice, note in close proximity what is occurring etc., and those student(s) participating will invariably be doing their utmost to practice at their highest level. While for a time they may become self conscious or distracted by the masters presence, if they are of high enough quality this will subside during the course of a few minutes and the dynamics are of the highest level. It is also a great learning tool for students at or near the same level.

 

Also in general group dynamics one cannot hide from a master or oneself as can completely be the case in "self practice".

Group dynamics help to round out ones work - self practice can be very lopsided and delusional - particularly during the first few "intense years". And if one never embarks on an intense practice then the delusion can easily overcome the practice entirely and reduce it to very little more than calisthenics and a clueless idea of what one is actually capable of in these endeavors.

The use of the word Master is the bigger issue in these discussions - most have never met one that they have come to know the full treasure and power of - though many think they have and many have given up on looking having come to the conclusion that "there are no secrets I cannot find on my own" which may or may not be true in the lifetime you are leading.

 

Thankfully if you are looking for assistance it will find you. The greatest treasure is a truely seeking student - and a truely high master certainly has the power to find one that can truely benifit from his/her expertise and presence. The truely seeking student will absolutely and unequivocally find assistance if it is asked and sought for, though it may come after a great deal of pressure has been applied - it is dependent of what the student has taken on in this life.

 

In the aftermath of an inner circle session with a master while sitting for tea with him/her after, it is not un-common that the student cannot but remain seated with eyes closed - quite unable to join in conversation except when a response to the teacher is required. And certainly not because the student is in trance, but because the energy level has overcome any words and the body being transformation is so encompassing, exquisite and profound.

 

It can also be the case that the entire work with a master in a closed session is done with both the teacher and students eyes closed - as the work and conversation is not on the physical outward plane.

At a certain point the lines blur between high master and high student and sharing becomes extraordinary.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Spotless

[blue eyed snake]

From a beginner

 

I enjoyed readng spotless posts, I recognize much from his words, but am not yet able to put it like that.

 

I didn't need someone telling me that my teacher is a master indeed,

but spotless just did :-)

 

Taiji i do with someone else but to me it is like: first we walk the form, one time. Then some other movements, mainly to wake up the LDT for those that need that and to get the head somewhat more empty. Then she goes into detail for one small part of the form ( and takes one and a half year to go through all the movements) So that is mainly bodywork and she's walks along to correct postures here and there, shows where the particular part comes from with one of us . ( like, hey, now I kick you in the crotch or throw you over my shoulder or something)

 

Then again we walk the whole form, and the groups energy really flows then. I can't explain really what happens, but it feels so much better, like were getting to be one movement. And I'm much better able to feel the energy flowing in and around my own body.

 

Working at home something in me remembers that flow and tries to recreate it.

 

We often have our eyes closed while doing qigong. But teacher/master advises us to close them very softly and slowly and, eh well, in a special way. I do not understand that really, but sometimes it works like he tells us to do it and then i get a better connection with the belly/the organs. When i close them to quickly i don't come at that level of  eh...awareness? and that awareness is more in the joints and the muscles etc

 

 

[tlkdww]

I agree with this.

 

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear. When the students is really ready... the teacher will disappear"-Lao Tzu

 

I cannot see tai chi as a purely gymnastic form, especially since I've had a BMI of 15 and wouldn't have been able to walk or move at all if it wasn't for taoist tai chi. It involves many things, and once you've got "the form" down, you work on many different things.

 

As I've said, group practice is mostly easier unless someone (or more) are having a hard time and it shoots through.

 

As far as the closing eyes, it's gone now! I don't feel them wanting to close anymore. Maybe in a few years I'll find out what it was

[Sunbeam]

I think closing the eyes helps inward looking. Sometimes it helps me to close my eyes during practice... Especially if I've been overly yang throughout the rest of the day. Practice can be used for different things at different times. It is what it is. Just let it be natural. You don't always need your eyes to see/feel a group, but you want to be in tune with the group if you're practicing with one.