The meaning of Tao?

[maldor]

Been through this discussion before elsewhere. Would be interested to hear what people have to say here.

 

Thanks

[maldor]

Really, no takers ?

[Ish]

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Edited July 26, 2016 by Ish

[maldor]

Steward - I like that very much

 

"Before form and conception have risen."

 

Just that alone expresses my "understanding". I would not say "energy" as that is a concept itself!!

 

Was hoping for a number of replies to this considering the nature of this forum ?

[Marblehead]

For whatever the reason this is the first time I have seen this thread.  I must have been distracted by some short skirt or bikini.

 

I really can't put a definition on "Tao".  To even put the name "Tao" on it is an error, IMO, but we do have to call "everything that has been, is, and ever will be" something, don't we?

 

Lao Tzu used the word "Great".

 

Chuang Tzu said that it (Tao) cannot be defined but we can speak to some of its properties (the processes of the universe).

 

Thank goodness that neither called it "God".

 

I forget who I first read here who suggested "what is".  I like that but even that is incomplete.  This is because "what is" is only those aspects we can become aware of.

 

But if I attempted a definition the word "energy" (Yin/Yang) would have to be in there somewhere.

[soaring crane]

Really, no takers ?

 

It's possible this has come up before in the past, not sure.

[Stosh]

It doesn't sound appealing to spend much time writing out a thorough response if the reaction is already figured to be along of the lines ........., Yep , heard that , dismissed it . Moved on for something else. 

[Rara]

Meaning? Haha, delete that word from your dictionary

Edited May 1, 2015 by Rara

[dust]

Was hoping for a number of replies to this considering the nature of this forum ?

It's possible this has come up before in the past, not sure.

 

(giggles)

 

 

Yes, I didn't respond at first simply because it is a question I have seen addressed a number of times on here and have already discussed numerous times with myself (in my head).

 

I can't offer much more than others have. As we all know,

 

道可道，非恒道      A way that can walked/told is not the Eternal Way     (Laozi)

 

or

 

道昭而不道      The way that is named/displayed is not the Way     (Zhuangzi)

 

so... seems pretty futile trying, doesn't it?

Edited May 1, 2015 by dustybeijing

[Marblehead]

 

so... seems pretty futile trying, doesn't it?

Oh, but it's fun pretending we know something now and then.

[maldor]

Glad to see these responses. It gives me faith in the site. I was worried at first by some of the comments I had seen.

 

This is, obviously, an exercise of language and how to express what cannot be expressed ... although it seems we do kind of manage to do so from a distance.

[Ish]

On 01/05/2015 at 11:54 AM, maldor said:

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Edited April 4, 2018 by Ish

[soaring crane]

Glad to see these responses. It gives me faith in the site. I was worried at first by some of the comments I had seen.

 

This is, obviously, an exercise of language and how to express what cannot be expressed ... although it seems we do kind of manage to do so from a distance.

 

Am I reading you correctly here when I conclude that you were in some way testing the people here?

 

My first inclination was to throw the ball back at you and request you first do the legwork by providing your own insights to the question you raised. It's my inclination every time someone posts a querie like this. But if you were simply trolling, I'm glad I opted for sarcasm instead.

[Brian]

Wait...

 

What was the question?

 

 

<munchesonpotatochipsandicecream>

[dwai]

Been through this discussion before elsewhere. Would be interested to hear what people have to say here.

 

Thanks

I like to understand it this way --

 

In classical indian traditions, there is the concept of "nama-rupa" (name/label-form/shape).

As we all know, Lao Tzu clearly stated "the Dao that can be named is not the real Dao". What it implies is that it (Dao) is beyond labels and forms. But Lao Tzu also called it the Mother, so it gives rise to everything that has name and form. 

[maldor]

soaring -

 

If you don't value the question don't troll the thread then accuse me of trolling.

 

It is a genuine question not a test.  I find it intriguing that we can refer to something with language that defies the direct grasp of language. "Tao/dao" seems to be an adumbration of an adumbration of an adumbration ... but there is no "thing" or "concept" to it ... much like "nothingness".

[soaring crane]

soaring -

 

If you don't value the question don't troll the thread then accuse me of trolling.

 

I was careful to ask if I was reading your post correctly, and given the nature of your original post, I believe I was. I didn't say anything about trolling, and I'm certainly not trolling you here. I simply asked if you were testing us to see if we live up to your standards or not. It still seems to me that that was the underlying motivation for your post. If I read you wrong, then great. But then I would still prefer to read your own take on your own question.

[Stosh]

Oh , so then you already have the answer !  , this is a verbalization skills test. AHHH.

Well I disagree, There are all sorts of concepts youve already come across regarding it no doubt.. But if you are expecting it to be a thing, then you need to realize that there arent any 'things' anyway. The differentiation , quantification and qualifications we conceptualize aren't really valid, since the cosmos world universe isnt actually subdivided, you are intimately linked with all the forces and materials we conceptualize.   Should you rocket up to outer space , your blood would boil from the lack of pressure and temperature ,, thus you demonstrated that your physical constitution relies on counterforces to maintain its integrity ( as we we see it ordinarily) All the 'things' you know of are fabrications of the mind , arbitrarily defined.  

[Marblehead]

Actually, Chapter 1 states it pretty simply.

 

We can't talk about the absolute Tao.

 

We can talk about its manifestations.

 

That is,

 

We cannot talk about its emptiness (non-being) but we can talk about its fullness (being).

[Daeluin]

Sometimes people refer to the dao at the root of all things, and sometimes people refer to the dao that is in everything. They are the same, but are they the same?

 

The root of all things just happens to be everywhere all at once, as everywhere, as we know of it in quantifiable coordinates, is really not anywhere in particular, and the root of all things, where all of this everywhere came from, and where all of this no-where exists, is still right where it has always been.

 

It just so happens that the contents of this root of all things, which some like to call the illusory world, and others like to quantify in terms of atomic mass and vibrational qualities, are still just as much a part of the substance of dao as any other part of dao, but none of these are really dao at all, because the true dao is still right there where it has always been, before any of whatever it is happened to manifest into whatever any of this is. And yet whatever that was that became whatever this is is all still part of the same whole, so who can even say if dao is or ever will be what it once was until all of whatever it came from returns again.

 

And perhaps on the other side of all of that, what we think of as dao is merely just one more spec of de in a whole 'nother paradigm.

 

Oh, and...

[dawei]

Sometimes people refer to the dao at the root of all things, and sometimes people refer to the dao that is in everything. They are the same, but are they the same?

 

Dao is the Way of all things; The Way that is in everything.

 

And perhaps on the other side of all of that, what we think of as dao is merely just one more spec of de in a whole 'nother paradigm.

 

De is Dao in all things; in everything.

 

Oh, and...

 

Yes, nice link.

 

Some things are constrained by language and then there is simply thought, experience and transmissions.  All this is the matrix of the physical-energy-spirit matrix.  Dao is the grid.   

 

It gets interesting when you realize your on one side of the grid and your just jump to another layered, realm, grid... and transmit with a deity...  Where/what is Dao at that point?

[Rara]

Wait...

 

What was the question?

 

 

<munchesonpotatochipsandicecream>

I see what you did there. Yes, I'm watching you

[Bearded Dragon]

If you want to perfectly describe our planet you would need to create a perfect replica of it. But we already have one so.....

[Stosh]

Yeah, that was a slick ,link insertion, I like it.

[Taokuoh]

The Tao cannot be defined. If the Tao is defined then this isn't the eternal Tao.