Foundations of Internal Alchemy Wang Mu book

[voidisyinyang]

O.K. just got the book in the mail.

 

Can someone post any previous links on this book and also chime in on any tidbits.

 

Let the book discussion begin.

 

My plan is to compare this to the Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality book since 1) I know that Taoist Yoga book pretty well now and I consider it the best source for practical training information. 2) the person promoting this Wang Mu book was trashing the Taoist Yoga book by posting half-sentence "quotes" that lied about the meaning of the missing half of the sentence! haha. I find that fascinating - why the need to lie about a book when anyone can read the truth if they want to? Maybe Wang Mu has the answer.

 

My impression and from what I've read of previous comments that I can remember is this Wang Mu book is steeped in allegorical alchemical terminology that can only be properly understood with the personal supervision of a qigong master or more precisely an "immortal one" - sending in energy to guide the training, etc.

 

In other words am I just going to get some elitist self-denial paradoxical comments like - you can never truly understand that book unless you send  $99.95 to such and such paypal account. hahaha.

 

Just a bit of a preemptive disclaimer there.

 

On the positive side I did note the new student of the people promoting Wang Mu - the new student saying their first lesson was to flex the anus.  The previous day I learned that this was the lower magpie bridge - flexing it to connect the front and back channels. So putting tongue against the roof of the mouth and flexing the anus are equally important. That is news to me and good practical training advice that I immediately put into practice.

 

So that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

 

So - of course deep philosophy insights are great like how Western civilization is inherently based on a bad foundation due to not understanding the complementary opposite resonance - from the symmetric logic of commutative math going against yin-yang-Emptiness resonance. haha.

 

The other issue of course is celibacy and the ability to create yuan qi from converting postnatal jing - and I did find a new quote from Taoist Yoga saying this is possible by combining celibacy with focusing on the Emptiness. So my question is will Wang Mu dismiss this claim or confirm it or be too steeped in allegorical alchemical poetry to leave the practical training points up for the student.

 

Either way I look forward to reading the book with an open mind of course.

 

 

 

[Antares]

On the positive side I did note the new student of the people promoting Wang Mu - the new student saying their first lesson was to flex the anus

 

 Can you elaborate who teaches to flex the anus as daoist method? 

[damdao]

It appears that to innersoundetc all distance learning or all correspondence courses come from Dao De Centre otherwise it is inexplicable  his trolling here and in Opendao's thread (I know that usually his post are inexplicable).

Besides, he did not understand what Opendao said about Wang's Mu book.

It is a pity.

New posts confusing everything and everybody.

[opendao]

O.K. just got the book in the mail.

 

Can someone post any previous links on this book and also chime in on any tidbits.

 

Let the book discussion begin.

 

My plan is to compare this to the Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality book since 1) I know that Taoist Yoga book pretty well now and I consider it the best source for practical training information. 2) the person promoting this Wang Mu book was trashing the Taoist Yoga book by posting half-sentence "quotes" that lied about the meaning of the missing half of the sentence! haha. I find that fascinating - why the need to lie about a book when anyone can read the truth if they want to? Maybe Wang Mu has the answer.

 

Ho-ho, circus is back again. Now new victim, Wang Mu. Innersound will reveal all truth about Zhang Boduang's method how to "retract anus and unflex a diarrhea mouth". And sure, because he knows nothing about Zhang Boduang's school, he will insist again on the benefits of spermatoreya.

 

And boy, I've replied to your accuses about Taoist Yoga  a long time ago. I have no time to find where it is, but obviously you understand NOTHING. If somebody wants, they can continue to discuss on _your_ level, with all "kungfu movies", "erecting penises" and other "flexing anus" crap, but this shit is so far away from Dao, so I can only laugh from a side. You're not the first, not the last, who has "qigong sickness" in all its beauty.

 

To avoid confusions: I don't "promote" Wang Mu. This book has its own flaws and doesn't reflect the real teaching of Zhang Boduang. I know it for sure because of the direct contacts my teacher made with this school practitioners, living today. But Wang Mu can help __normal__ people to understand what Neidan is. 

[dawei]

O.K. just got the book in the mail.

 

Can someone post any previous links on this book and also chime in on any tidbits.

 

Some TDB links:

 

Introduction to Taoist Alchemy

 

The Way of the Golden Elixir

 

Cultivating the Tao by Fabrizio

 

Interview with Fabrizio Pregadio

 

Building the foundation and Inner Alchemy

 

Unraveling Taoist Yoga

 

Taoist Yoga & Daoist Alchemy: Discussion

 

Taoist Internal Alchemy and the book 'Taoist Yoga'

[voidisyinyang]

ok found it - thanks

[voidisyinyang]

yeah so an update - I glanced at the book during traffic lights and discovered it gives the original source for the upper magpie bridge and lower magpie bridge (we all know what that lower one means right?).

 

So that's worth the price of the book right there - I mean in terms of some esoteric original source info.

 

But then I gave the book to my Chinese coworker who - well - let's just say he is well familiar with the subject matter and he, after having the book for the work day said he was able to glance at it a bit and found some of the translations to be

 

"quite funny."

 

So anyway - I will dive in further but at least we got these preliminary remarks.

 

Anyone actually read the book who wants to comment on the subject matter?

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/32406-building-the-foundation-and-inner-alchemy/

 

in terms of "back and forth" antagonism - clearly these two Russian teachers are debating the interpretation of the translations of the Mandarin.

 

So then Open Dao insists that there has to be the proper teacher with the proper lineage, etc.

 

Fair enough.

 

But that would explain the online antagonism since - the question remains what really are the proper teachers and proper lineages.

 

it's been hinted there are some other good teachers out there.

 

But obviously we know his teacher is the proper one according to him and by that standard -

 

 

You need to understand that methods are not revealed in classic texts!

 

 

So - anyway he has posted in his school system thread that he will post more detailed info on his training methods.

 

Personally I think the information should just stand on its own merits - if there is some problem with it then it should be based on some kind of analysis of the information - not whether the teacher is "proper" or is of the proper "lineage."

 

But based on those standards it's easy to devolve into ad hominems like - clearly the author of Taoist Yoga was not a proper teacher - just look at his photo!

 

Well o.k. so how about posting photos of proper teachers? It seems only fair. haha.

 

Of course a photo could be air-brushed or whatever - photo-shopped.

 

Yeah such is the limitations of writing and posting online. Again the information as teaching should speak for itself - not the "messenger" of the teaching.

 

As I said Yan Xin was not even understood in his verbal teachings when he did mass qigong healings in China - he often was in areas with different language.

 

But then the response is - well obviously Yan Xin was not a proper teacher! haha.

 

So if Yan Xin and Wang Liping and the Taoist Yoga text all are not "proper" teachings along with the qigong masters I have met - then that only leaves ..... (oh yeah I forgot the term "qigong" is not proper except as just some preliminary warm-up to the real "proper" training.....

 

The hint is that there have been a few "proper" teacher who also happen to post on thetaobums (promoting their schools also!).

 

How convenient! The "proper" teaching appears to be those who use thetaobums to market their school. haha.

 

Hilarious!!!

 

Anyway I am thankful for being able to have the candid discussion of the Taoist Yoga book.

 

yeah so reading that "debate" between the two Russians - I would say the really issue here about "post" heaven versus "pre" heaven or "method" versus "result" is actually a false framework of dualistic language itself and (ming) versus (xing).

 

If we just stick to the Chinese then I think it's possible to avoid this false framework dualistic debate that is axiomatic to phonetic-based language.

 

Oh yeah - and when I say Chinese I mean - not even the written text - but the tonal language itself.

 

So I agree with my Chinese coworker's comment that he found some of the translations to be

 

"quite funny."

 

that is how it should be - these training manuals should offer some deep philosophical insights along with practice methodology but even still they are inherently limited.

 

Of course a person should find a real teacher to receive energy from - so to experience the goals of training.

 

Obviously I'm not one to say that someone else's teacher isn't real or not despite other people wanting to do that about teachers I have experienced. haha.

 

The original training is from the Bushmen culture and the trance songs they use to send the energy - the words are gibberish.

 

Anyway obviously every individual is different in their training.

 

But according to the above debate true internal alchemy books are....

 

 

they are not intended to give out practical methods.

 

 

Once again.

 

So that rules out Taoist Yoga since it's all about practical methods. haha.

 

 

He has started to learn in Wu-Liu Pai but stopped soon and now is considered as an "inventor" because his teaching is very far from Wu-Liu. So, Wu-Liu Pai doesn't recognise Zhao Bichen as its lineage, as far as I know.

 

Opendao on author of Taoist Yoga.

 

Yeah I already posted my comments about that book.

 

So I read through that Building the Foundation thread.

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/32406-building-the-foundation-and-inner-alchemy/page-9

 

It's interesting but a bit "one size fits all" too much - certainly method of training is based on many factors - age, health, location, personal history - emotions, etc.

 

I appreciate the links provided - but it seems that the internal alchemy foundation thread was the only one close to the actual book discussion I'm proposing.

 

I just wonder how many people on this forum have actually read the book of this thread?

[Taoist Texts]

I dunno, I've experienced strong things with Taoist yoga; I've also experienced strong things with a slew of other practices and traditions. Why is there back and forth antagonism?

Because of the money. The angry posters come here in coordinated teams to push their seminars for money. They do that through negative advertisement. Some members do not like that. Thats why.

 

Negative campaigning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_campaigning

•  
•  

There are a number of techniques used in negative campaigning. Among the most effective is   running advertisements attacking an opponent's personality

[voidisyinyang]

So I started digging into the book - and I'm enjoying the read.

The first information I have encountered that is specific practical information is regarding the location of the lower tan tien.

So the book says that there is disagreement but for those who practice real neidan their view is the lower tan tien is behind the navel and not below the navel.

I found that interesting since the original qigong master I have studied with - he said in class that some people claim the lower tan tien is below the navel but the real position is behind the navel. So that would put him in line with real neidan training.

I already know that the qigong master I studied with is a real neidan master - to be sure - but I'm just corroborating it more with the actual teachings he gave.

So then the book says the reason some people claim the lower tan tien is below the navel is because when a person is lying down then the position seems to shift below the navel.

That was news for me.

But to be honest I found that discrepancy or reason for it to be trite.

My understanding, and here I compare to Taoist Yoga - is that the lower tan tien does not exist - not until the lower body hormones are ionized, sublimated and purified - to create the cavity of spirit-vitality.

I can't remember where I read it - but I read that the Sea of Qi exists below the lower tan tien and then it is sublimated up to create the lower tan tien. So also Taoist Yoga says that the reproductive fluid is created by the Cavity of Pre-natal Vitality (Yuan Qi) shooting qi down the spine and converting the Sea of Qi into fluid.

So the opposite of this is that the Sea of Qi or Ocean of Qi is sublimation and ionized to create the lower tan tien.

So it would appear that some people just are referring to what is the source of what will become the lower tan tien - but is not the actual location of where the lower tan tien is.

https://books.google.com/books?id=YR79AQAAQBAJ&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111&dq=Ocean+of+Qi+below+the+navel&source=bl&ots=6afliEWr8E&sig=77HD7E5aGzVCB9oCmwpaodmbkNU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bldAVfyiBezfsASI2YGoAw&ved=0CD8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Ocean of Qi below the navel&f=false

O.K> this is fascinating - based on this description - the "Conception Vessel" aka the "Ocean of Yin" begins "in the center of the uterus" and runs up to the cheek, enters the eye, but also encircles the mouth and gums.

That exactly describes the path of when lower body impurities get pulled up into my skull - they even go into my eyes but also leach out the gums. So that confirms what the qigong master read - long distance for over an hours drive a way - he read my energy spiritually and said it was going up the front of my body. All the time I thought my energy was going up the back of my spine - so that was a big eye-opener for me.

I never realized the reason the front channel is called the "Conception" channel is because it starts at the "Uterus." So that Ocean of Yin - is actually what is also called the Ocean of Qi.
 

Jia Xia Dan Tian ( , False Lower Elixir Field) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The False Lower Dan Tian is located about two inches below the navel in
the abdominal area. This is Qihai (Co-6, , Ocean of Qi) in Chinese
medicine (Figure 5-5). Daoists call it Dan Lu ( , Elixir Furnace).
These names indicate that this area can produce Qi (grow elixir) as abundantly
as the ocean.
When you move your abdomen up and down through abdominal breathing,
you produce Qi. This movement is called Qi Huo ( ) and means
to start the fire. Two ways of breathing build up the fire and store Qi. One
is Normal Abdominal Breathing (Zheng Fu Hu Xi, ), the other
Reverse Abdominal Breathing (Fan, Ni Fu Hu Xi, ). The
abdominal breathing is also called Returning to Childhood Breathing (Fan
Tong Hu Xi, ) or Post-Heaven Breathing (Xian Tian Hu Xi,
). A fetus uses this pumping movement to suck in nutrition and
oxygen from its mother through the umbilical cord. Most small children

and

 

 

Thrusting Vessel (Chong Mai, )
a. The main section of the Thrusting Vessel is the spinal cord, which connects
the brain (Upper Dan Tian) with the second brain (Real Lower
Dan Tian), constituting the central Qi system. Upper and lower brains
are the two poles of this system.

So there we get - with this pdf link - the difference between the Sea of Qi - which is the Conception Vessel and the Real Lower Tan Tien - behind the navel - which is in the Thrusting Central Channel and not in the Conception channel.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fymaa.com%2Ffiles%2FISBN0673sampleR.pdf&ei=2VpAVfCCGIu9ggTf_oDYBA&usg=AFQjCNEvm4NxGuc_azj0E9XOwoKDGoLtmw&bvm=bv.91665533,d.eXY&cad=rja pdf link

So I didn't realize the difference - of the channels - the two channels meet at the perineum.

O.K. so from that text we learn that indeed the Ocean of Qi below the lower tan tien - is what turns the fluid of food into yin jing energy.

Yin jing is the hormones.

I know this again from Taoist Yoga - that normal digestion of food is turned into fluids for reproduction but with the Quick Fire breathing it is turned into yin jing energy.

So from that we know the difference between the Ocean of Qi and the Real Lower Tan Tien is based on purification.

You're only going to create yin jing energy from Quick Fire breathing whereas with purification Emptiness meditation and visualization of fire - you turn the yin jing into "yang jing" for the Real Lower Tien behind the navel.

A taobums thread confirms what I discovered in the book: http://thedaobums.com/topic/18168-that-tan-tien-thing/

 

 

 

This is not a myth to hide the real location but a confusion about ancient writings which did make such claims. the problem was people forgot 2.5 or 1.5 inches below the navel refers to a location while lying face up, i.e. a few inches into the body cavity. There is also a real point called Ocean of Chi on the outside of the body below the navel sometimes called the false dan tian (tan tien), which is an important acupoint.

What's fascinating about that thread is people 1) were actually confused about the location and 2) were still confused - debating if there really is a "real" tan tien behind the navel.

I think this Neidan book confirms that yes the "real" tan tien is behind the navel and again the qigong master also confirms this.

https://books.google.com/books?id=rTGJ-p1pHTQC&pg=PA134&lpg=PA134&dq=lower+tan+tien+behind+the+navel&source=bl&ots=lk853i3uzw&sig=YDu0ptRr3GilCevT7L1zRQyPmcU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rl9AVfHMF_DlsATZ94HYCQ&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=lower tan tien behind the navel&f=false

So for a third corroboration source we get Waysun Liao:

lower tan tien is "behind the navel."

But as Liao emphasizes it's not a physical point anatomically but instead an energy center that houses the original memory of Te within us.

o.k. finally I get the story clarified - about how lying down the word "below" is changed meaning directly below the navel but when standing up people interpret it to mean vertically below:

 

 

 

The other is situated, not below but behind. It is said that a master, in his deathbed confessed to his most loyal disciple about the location while lying down. Later, another influential disciple with asked the previous disciple about the last words of the master and the other disciple, between the compromise to his master and that of his co-disciple, chose to tell him the literal words, ´´ the dan tian is below the navel´´ although not specifying that these words were said while the master was laying down.

Now I get it.

http://www.taijiquandao.com/03paginasingles/01introduction/10thedantian.htm

So that is the 5th source corroboration the two different "lower" tien tiens.

O.K. so I searched lower tan tien thrusting channel - and behold I get the Taoist Yoga thread!

 

 

 

 

"If your practice is successful, you will in time experience congenial harmony in the lower abdomen, and all of a sudden the positive fire will soar up from the base of the spine to the top of the head when you breath in, .... this is the ....microcosmic orbit." p. 16

So that is describing the kundalini as the small universe practice - after the lower tan tien is filled up.

It is still based on activating the thrusting channel though.

Earlier the book says,

"All of a sudden the heart becomes pure and the spirits high, causing vitality [yang jing] to be overwhelming and the body robust....Unexpectedly a spark of real positive (principle) appears revealing the mysterious gate....The mysterious gate has no fixed position...." (p. 7).

So that is when the thrusting channel is activated, but it is when the real small universe meditation kicks in - or when those channels are really opened.

So in chapter 3 he says to breath in the yang jing energy up to the solar plexus of the thrusting channel - but there it shud stop and go no further up. So that is while still working on opening up the outer 8 channels to be used for the macrocosmic orbit.

So on page 34 he discusses whether yang jing as vitality is "sufficient" or not - meaning is the lower tan tien full yet.

If it is not full yet then the real achemical agent as yang chi - the positive principle - can not be gathered.

O.K. so compare Taoist Yoga with the book of this thread topic the point is that "Laying the Foundation" doesn't happen until the lower tan tien is filled up with yin qi energy which then opens up the thrusting channel - why? Because the lower tan tien is located in the thrusting channel and not in the conception channel which is where the "sea of qi" is located.

 

 

 

 

....unexpectedly my lower tan t'ien (under the navel) became unusually hot and most relaxing overwhelming me with great joy....At this stage vitality seemed to but actually did not drain away. Then positive vitality went down and veered to the base of the backbone to ascend slowly. Simultaneously the channels of control and function opened up by themselves. I immediately practiced immortal breathing through the heel and trunk pathways to turn the wheel of law...." p. 103

So this appears to be the "real kundalini" of when the "real" tan tien fills up - the energy actually descends down the thrusting channel and then opens up fully the front and back channels as the "real" MCO finally.

So now examining Taoist Yoga - it appears to be a mistranslation because whenever Lower tan tien appears in the text then "(below the navel)" is added in parenthesis by the editor, Charles Luk. Crazy. I wonder if he also did not understand the difference!


sure enough on page 143 - there is an image in the book that confirms the lower tan tien as behind the navel in the thrusting channel! Charles Luk inserted is own error by repeatedly adding in parenthesis "(under the navel)" ever time "lower tan tien" is in the text. Crazy!

 

 

Edited April 29, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[SecretGrotto]

I have both "Foundations of internal alchemy" and "Taoist Yoga".

 

They are complementary and "Foundations of internal alchemy" confirms popular beliefs on Neidan.

 

So I'm very interested in studying Opendao's contradictary interpretations and to learn from his lineage to see where the misinterpretations arise from.

[voidisyinyang]

O.K. so moving on with the first chapter called "Laying the Foundation."

 

What makes this books so great is that Wang Mu's commentary on Awakening to Reality really draws from and cites numerous alchemical texts.

 

So for example he is discussing the "three barriers" of the governing or control channel up the spine - he says, based on his analysis that this was still an unwritten oral teaching by Zhang Boduan and then got transferred into writing at such and such a time - he is tracing the lineage and then deducing the "secret" teachings from that.

 

Yeah so also he clarifies that the "Mysterious Pass" or the "valley of the female" is very much so the middle tan tien - as the Emptiness of the heart.

 

So Wang Mu in this first chapter also emphasizes that Zhang Boduan taught that first the "Yin Heel" vessel (one of the eight meridians) has to be opened first in the training and that it rises from the foot but meets with the other meridians in the Ocean of Qi - the Yin Conception Vessel below the navel.

 

So this refers to the focus on standing active exercise in the beginning of the training - but also to the conversion of yin jing energy into yin qi energy to fill up the lower tan tien.

 

So also in this first chapter Wang Mu keeps referring and contrasting real alchemy training to "medical" or qigong training and so he emphasizes that "laying the foundation" is just the initial clearing out of the eight channels and is the rebuilding of the three treasures (jing, qi, shen) and so it is just the preparation stage for the real alchemy training. In other words "Laying the foundation" is good for health and it is equivalent still to qigong training but it is not real alchemy training.

 

On the other hand Wang Mu also emphasizes that for Zhang Boduan and the alchemists this initial stage of training has to be a dual training of both Xing and Ming together and so there has to be the training of no impure thoughts in order to properly open up the channels.

 

So this whole huge debate about whether ming comes first or Xing comes first - indeed the alchemists state Ming comes first - but again only after this initial stage of laying the foundation is achieved when both Ming and Xing must be practiced together.

 

So also there is a fascinating discussion about the difference between "heart" and "spirit" and essentially heart is unmoved spirit as the Emptiness whereas any movement of spirit is not Wu Chi - but rather a function of the mind - and so then the mind has to be put into pointed concentration at first in order to achieve the Emptiness to open up the mysterious pass.

 

And so - this is all the initial training to get into the gateway as it were of "real" meditation.

 

By the way - this same point is made by Swami Vivekananda who states that nirvikalpa samadhi is actually an advanced level of meditation that most people never achieve and yet nirvikalpa samadhi is the initial stage of real meditation!

 

And so as Professor Hugh B. Urban pointed out most people at the time could not afford to join the Vivekananda Society for Ramakrishna and so they were forced to practice the lower level tantra practice which does not maintain the same level of purity.

 

We find the same paradox in modern qigong training - for example the qigong master I studied with has said for advanced training you need to go into retreat and into Nature in purity, etc. and so then for the rest of us we just focus on our health - qigong for health.

 

And so finally to compare this back to the Taoist Yoga book I would say that the main difference is the problem that Opendao has also said - is that in Taoist Yoga there is no emphasis on standing active exercise and so without the standing practice the Yin Heel channel never gets properly opened in the first place!

 

By properly open that also means to properly maintain the Emptiness purity of thought so that the lower tan tien can actually be filled up with yin qi energy. Taoist Yoga does emphasize the purity of thought and states that Quick Fire is the solution to this and that this Quick Fire solution is often lost by people - not realized.

 

I think what is beautiful about this is there is a unity of method - standing active exercise - and of purity of thought to empty out the mind. Because when you do have extreme sympathetic nervous system activation - the legs shaking with the knees bent - then the energy rises up the spine and empties out the conceptual mind for purity of thought - so you get a double whammy.

 

But again you would not know this from studying Taoist Yoga - even though it says how a student doing MCO but still having nocturnal emissions is never going to fill up their lower tan tien - and the reason why is they are just doing MCO as a mental meditation without having strong enough Quick Fire breathing to transform the fluids into yin jing energy for the power of the Ocean of Qi - the Yin Conception Vessel.

 

So then as I read now to finish the chapter Wang Mu is saying spirit issues out of the eyes and so wherever the eyes go so too goes the heart.

 

This of course fits with what Taoist Yoga is saying and also emphasizes just how difficult it is just to "lay the foundation" which is still just qigong health training.

 

For example the qigong masters have said to me - that in actuality to have proper purity of thought the internet and television are too impure. I was even told to leave my family to get away from the females since they were pulling my energy down too much.

 

So then also it's not just the eyes of the person training - but as Taoist Yoga states the eyes of others can send in "bad air" (qi) into the body. I can actually feel this with my third eye and sense when someone is staring at me in lust - and I can feel the yin qi getting pulled back down in frequency back down into yin jing (blissful dopamine sex heat) and then into fluids.

 

O.K. I have read 40 pages of the first chapter Laying the Foundation and still have 25 pages to go so almost 2/3rds through. I am going slowly just to ponder and comment and compare this book with the Taoist Yoga book.

 

But anyway the big personal problem I have is the spirit energy going out of my eyes - along with the yin qi energy and so if a person is tired or low in energy - then even if I just make eye contact with the person - immediately I get internal tingling from my yin qi energy getting pulled out of the lower tan tien and up the conception vessel channel and out of my eyes. There are other means of course in which energy gets pulled out of me - but I'm just saying that this book has emphasized the eyes and indeed the eyes are the most powerful way the yin qi energy leaves the body via the yin shen spirit. And so eye to eye contact is the most powerful way the energy leaves the body.

 

To fix this I would say more anal flexing to connect the yin heel vessel point that connects with the other channel points at the perineum - anal flexing pulls the perineum back and so helps to pull the yin qi energy back down into the body so it doesn't leave out of the eyes so easily.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[voidisyinyang]

So this  next section has more profound insights for me.

 

So I answered it wrong - the text says the best way to guard the building up of the lower tan tien is through "true intention" and that intention is the yellow earth element - but this ties it also to the true function of the mind - literally the yellow light that is seen as the yin shen energy.

 

In other words one of the names for the Mysterious Pass as the Emptiness of the spirit - the true intention focus - is "Cavity of the Yellow Court."

 

So in terms of it being the Earth element - and the connection to true intention - the section analyzes the five elements to say that Metal (lungs) is the essence of Water which is post-celestial jing energy and so Metal and Water are paired together while Wood (liver) is the essence of Fire (hun spirit heart) and so Fire and Wood are paired together but Earth stands alone since it is true intention of the mind that properly guides the whole alchemical practice.

 

And so I have a joke at work - since I talk bad Spanish for my job - and I say - "why am I seeing light above your head?" to my coworkers, as they know me as the brujo. And so now this book has given me the answer - my "true intention" as the Yellow Earth energy or the yin qi energy tied to the yin shen energy - is leaving my body out of my eyes and therefore I see yellow light around other people.

 

And so the best way to "guard" the lower tan tien energy is by "turning the light around" or emptying out the conceptual mind to focus true intention on the lower tan tien behind the navel. For me this in practice is what I call "flexing the pineal gland" - which depending on my intention could be either to send out energy or to turn it back around, but in both cases it is an emptying out of the conceptual mind. So in other words - the intention for true intention has to be to "flex" the pineal gland to turn that yin shen light around along with its yin qi energy - so that it continues to build up the yin qi energy in the lower tan tien and not to leave out of the eyes.

 

The reason I forget to do this is precisely because our intention - my intention - forgets the True Intention of the emptiness and so the qi energy since it follows the yi - which is really the yin shen energy - then the fire element as yin shen is constantly being lost out of the eyes - because the mind has forgotten to focus the yin shen on the Emptiness and thereby the yin qi follows the yin shen back down to the lower tan tien.

[opendao]

 

Because of the money. The angry posters come here in coordinated teams to push their seminars for money. They do that through negative advertisement. Some members do not like that. Thats why.

 

Negative campaigning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_campaigning

•  
•  

There are a number of techniques used in negative campaigning. Among the most effective is   running advertisements attacking an opponent's personality

 

Oh, that's basically what you both usually doing. No money? Sad...

 

Taoist Texts, I told you many times before, that if you know nothing about the tradition, it's better to keep calm and focus on research. Your understanding of Daoism in general and Dao De Jing in particular is very low. So instead of barking on us with no single argument or evidence being providing, focus on yourself and your own flaws. Clear?

Edited April 29, 2015 by opendao

[opendao]

I have both "Foundations of internal alchemy" and "Taoist Yoga".

 

They are complementary and "Foundations of internal alchemy" confirms popular beliefs on Neidan.

 

So I'm very interested in studying Opendao's contradictary interpretations and to learn from his lineage to see where the misinterpretations arise from.

 

Which misinterpretations? The only misinterpretation I see here is Innerqigong's one, but it is so hilarious and stinky at the same time so I won't participate. If somebody wants to "flex anus" - it's their misfortune only. If somebody has never practised and don't get what lower dantian means, I cannot help. If people don't see the difference between Taoist Yoga and Wang Mu's work, they need to focus on practice and slowly research, without jumping to somebody's else opinion.

[Daeluin]

One of the main facets of all of this, as I see it, is harmony.

If we are able to simply look for what is true and focus on that, we can get somewhere.

If we simply see what is false and attach to what is false, we block ourselves from seeing what is true.

 

Read lots of texts, and begin to see how and where they all say the same thing from different perspectives, and what is important will emerge. What is contradictory usually implies that there are may be different, temporary methods or timings that can be used to lead to what is not contradictory.

 

Just maintain sincerity, and remember that the further one goes, the more one's ego should be softening, ones humility growing. If you find yourself attaching to right and wrong and needing to disprove things, you aren't allowing yourself to trust the natural, harmonious flow of the dao.

 

The point of all of this is not to wage war on the 10,000 things, but to come to understand the 10,000 things just enough to dissolve them and find what is beneath.

 

Hexagram 22 comes to mind. Fire under Mountain.

Grace, or Adornment?

When the fire is contained within, people can sense an inner quality, an inner truth to something, even if they cannot place their finger on it, even if it is not clearly written upon the surface. This is Grace, and is the way of dao.

 

When the fire flows over the mountain, it paints itself with images and pictures that will shape the attention of others. But what is written on the surface is obvious and will only shape attention in a particular way. What attracts some may not appeal to others, etc.  This is Adornment, where the true turns into the false, and is the way of the 10,000 things.

 

Focusing on the true or the false is a simple choice. Just remember - the truth has no need to defend itself.

 

Also, I think this is a great book. It greatly simplifies the oft-confusing symbolism found in neidan and shares the different perspectives in terms of stages that different classics use. This is very helpful in gaining perspective on putting methods to use, whatever those methods may be.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Daeluin

[JinlianPai]

Man there is alot of confusion on this topic and no real guidance.

 

Not even a explanation on what golden elixir is.

 

I was taught in the Golden Lotus alchemy that the golden elixir is the energy of the center which in taoist fengshui is represented by earth.

 

Center/earth strengthens all of the other elements and when the elements are refined to there source it is this golden center/earth.

 

That this energy is yin and yang balanced.

 

During sunset that this is when yin and yang is balanced and the golden earth energy is at its strongest.

 

As one grows in practice they build a greater connection to the earth and this connection will heal them charge them and replenish there yin chi.

 

That planets trees and other herbs that bloom in late summer will have the strongest of this energy for its season is late summer. Its direction is southwest so one can face this direction to help strengthen the golden energy of the center.

 

A Taoist should know this and explain why this herbal formula for your training is different than other ones and how to use the natural forces in nature to strengthen your training.

 

 

In the secret of the golden flower it says that seeing the gold light in the mind is one of the positive lights. 

 

I agree with this.

 

In the golden light seated meds we first see blue at the third eye and then every other color of the rainbow and then finally gold and only gold from that point on this represents cultivation of the shen.

 

The Golden Flower is really the golden lotus. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana

 

It was given to shaolin who turned it into a martial art to hide it it was also given to taoist who mixed it with other practices.

 

I made a video explaining this partially.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njqMOwl7-m4&feature=youtu.be

Edited April 29, 2015 by JinlianPai

[JinlianPai]

The origin of this practice came from the Golden Dragon of the center the Guardian of Earth.

 

 

It was believed improper to have many practitioners practice the guardian of earth practice.

 

Thus the Golden Lotus practice was created.  It is very similar to the Gold Dragon except its not a Guardian practice.  This is also why it is held in such high regard.

 

And 

 

This is also why Golden Dragon has been connected with the secret of the Golden Flower.

 

The Taoist wanted this because it lead to the highest attainment in alchemy and they mixed it with other taoist principals.

Edited April 29, 2015 by JinlianPai

[JinlianPai]

Lets explain this in a more alchemic way.

 

In the center of all of creation is Taiji this taji is the harmony of yin and yang and radiates a universal golden vibration thru out all of nature.

 

Its direction is center.

 

This became Known as golden elixir.

 

All thngs in creation that has a center correlates to this.

 

Planet earth radiates with this Golden energy and so does all living things.

 

In chinese feng shui earth/center element can also be referred to as void.

 

To cultivate the elixir it became to enter the void and connect to your center and the center of all things.

 

In the center of human beings we have this earth element in us that broadcsts this golden energy and harmonizes yin and yang.

 

So you attain the Zhen qi this is spring it grows this is summer it matures this is fall and in winter it rests (stillness) ready for the next cycle/ level in alchemy.

 

this happens and happens until you become the embody of truth the living golden living center of all things the truth behind the elements the golden taichi.

 

Center of ourselves (dantian) center of earthly life (earth) center of the universe (heaven)

Edited April 29, 2015 by JinlianPai

[JinlianPai]

So you attain the Zhen qi this is spring it grows this is summer it matures this is fall and in winter it rests (stillness) ready for the next cycle/ level in alchemy.

 

To explain this Zhen Qi is not golden elixir the Zhen qi awakening is spring it must be refined into golden elixir this is late summer, it then is matured and refined further this is fall, At some point in meditation it will feel like nothing is happening as the normal sensations go away this is winter right before the next awakening which is the coming spring.

 

Center of ourselves (dantian) center of earthly life (earth) center of the universe (heaven)

 

This explains that the cultivation of center continues from man to earthly to heavenly.

Edited April 29, 2015 by JinlianPai

[Aetherous]

Because of the money.

 

Not necessarily. I think it's because there are people with real methods who don't like seeing fake made up or misunderstood nonsense touted as being real to the unwitting public. People are trying to help you.

 

For instance, I personally benefit in no way from saying that the poster Innersoundqigong is wrong 99% of the time. But I am saying that...only for the benefit of people who would otherwise blindly believe what he posts here, and hurt themselves, or at the very least accomplish nothing.

 

I don't make money from this.

[voidisyinyang]

This thread is about Wang Mu's book. So that's fine if people want to say what I post is wrong but at least provide some evidence - false accusations are just boring to be honest.

 

So I did get a chance to read a bit more so far - I was in full lotus at my boss's house waiting for some business - and outside in the sun - reading Wang Mu.

 

So then Wang Mu discusses how immortal breathing has to kick in when the Original three treasures are restored - and so the breathing of the pre-celestial qi comes in from the heel and it goes up the governing channel and goes down the conception channel to the lower tan tien where it thereby initiates post-celestial breathing.

 

This is called the breathing of a True Man versus the typical external breathing by the throat. And so the True Man it is said will be like they are drunk all the time - such is their ecstasy and the external breathing will be very slight but with very long inhalations and very little exhalation.

 

So at this point I should said that indeed I did achieve this "Laying of the Foundation" stage which the True Man breathing kicked in - so that the centers of my feet were pulsating with qi energy as well the centers of my hands and the top of my skull got soft and expanded and also pulsated with qi.

 

As the Wang Mu book says - at this stage the body will be very pliable and with very strong qi and very healthy and basically like a baby with happiness, etc.

 

So for me when I achieved this stage what happened is I had not studied the Taoist Yoga book well enough and very soon then I lost my yin qi energy from when I made eye contact with a female and instantly I had this internal orgasm up my spine - well now I know it was actually up the front channel as my yin qi energy went into her. I knew intuitively that she also had an internal orgasm from my energy - but I could not consciously process this as I was in denial about what had happened. But also since I had not studied Taoist Yoga enough I didn't realize that the encounter - again just simply direct eye contact about 20 feet apart - with a female I was friends with - and she pulled the frequency of my energy down. So not realizing that I had needed to purify my energy again with more standing active exercise then soon after that I lost the alchemical pill through nocturnal emission.

 

I was able to still maintain enough qi energy and keep my channels open enough where I had several other amazing experiences - but then actually the energy got too strong and I had this spacetime vortex as an Emptiness experience. Again it wasn't until I studied Taoist Yoga in great detail many years later - like 6 years later - did I realize that my yin shen spirit had left my body with not enough qi energy enveloping my spirit, thereby causing that spacetime vortex dizziness. But also as it was an Emptiness experience - the qigong master said I had an "enlightenment experience" - but again I had to keep studying the Taoist Yoga text to figure out what it was about.

 

So my point is that indeed - with this focus on the "Yin Heel" channel as the first thing that needs to be opened - then a proper focus on the standing active exercise can really be appreciated. For example the qigong master states that in the initial training the standing active exercise should be done 3 times more than the sitting passive meditation. So yes 3 times more is definitely an important focus - but it is never explained by the qigong master why such a focus on the standing active exercise! I mean yes it is said this is to build up the jing energy, to create the foundation in the lower tan tien - but it is only by understanding the difference between the false tan tien, the yin jing and yin qi energy, etc. and how only when the yin qi energy is filled up that the real MCO will open up, etc. - and how the Yin Heel channel converges with the other channels as the Ocean of Qi - then this is properly understood.

 

So at the time I did start reading Master Nan, Huai-chin - and he said how what happens is many students do achieve this "Laying of the Foundation" but then they get "heroic over-exuberance" and so then they "fall back into worldliness" and this is what happens for almost all the meditation students. He said it's very difficult because then it is easy to get "righteous anger" all the time - and this is because most people have their intention - their shen-qi energy - still stuck in the lower body center - their true subconscious self is still a very lower frequency and so they are constantly pulling the energy down - from the true intentions of the heart - down to the liver (the essence of fire is the wood) and then back down to water. But this last step is fought off as righteous anger by the meditation student.

 

My point is that only by properly understanding the alchemy training can there be real progress made on "Laying the Foundation." And so indeed Wang Mu does provide good direction for that training.

 

For me the problem is that I do feel sorry for people if they are low in energy and so then on occasion I do send out "yin qi" energy out of the pineal gland into other people. For example I had a boss-man hit his head today at the warehouse and he was in a lot of pain and so I just immediately went into full lotus and flexed my pineal gland and sent out "yin qi" energy into him, with my vagus nerve pulsating as it pulled up lower body energy along the yin qi channel.  Of course that pulls up a lot of lower body crap with it but I had my antiseptic with me - the tea tree oil - and again - the dude was in pain and so that's the price to be paid. But anyway he did feel much better and I only sent energy for a few minutes - all the while he was saying with his Chinese accent - "oh qigong!" haha.

 

Oh the other thing about restoring the 3 treasures is that Wang Mu discusses how the pre-celestial Jing is actually the ambrosia saliva that goes down from the pineal gland - from the sinuses and from the tongue against the roof of the mouth - the saliva goes down the front channel into the lower tan tien.

 

I was very glad to read that as that is also what Taoist Yoga states - that the saliva is the best way to restore jing energy and indeed I had just posted that in the "Meat and Jing" thread in the general discussion forum.

 

It's just that I didn't know that the saliva was actually the Pre-Celestial Jing and so I was very glad to learn this and it makes sense as the Laying the Foundation is about restoring also the unity of the three treasures - and so it would make sense that the Pre-Celestial Jing is created from the unity of the Pre-Celestial Qi (out of the pineal gland) with the Pre-Celestial Shen (out of the heart, expressed out of the eyes).

Edited April 29, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[Taoist Texts]

 

Not necessarily. I think it's because there are people with real methods  ....

 

For instance, I personally benefit in no way ...

I don't make money from this.

May be you don't take money personally but those you bought your real method from - do. By criticizing Drew here you improve their market share AND protect your investment, so it comes down to money being involved one way or the other.

 

 

As to protecting some unknown 'other people' - no. That excuse for criticizing Drew does not hold water, for there is no school that would give the student a firm guarantee that he will achieve anything or will not hurt himself. Thats why there are disclaimers.

 

 

 

the poster Innersoundqigong is wrong

may be;). What about our friend Jinlianpai here - is he wrong or is he right?

[voidisyinyang]

O.K. so I finished chapter one of Wang Mu.

 

Here's the deal - so far I have no real evidence that any one else posting in this thread has actually read the Wang Mu book. No one else is commenting directly on the content of the book.

 

No one is even really commenting on the content of what I have posted.

 

O.K. There has been several comments that are generally positive of Wang Mu.

 

So obviously the book is considered a worth while read for serious study.

 

But here's the other deal.

 

Chapter one is 65 pages. But the rest of the chapters - 2 and 3 - are only 20 pages each.

 

So the introduction - not even the real "arts of immortality" (chapters 2 and 3) is actually longer than the other 2 chapters combined and the conclusion.

 

Now I know that the more you work your way towards the Emptiness then the less can be said about it.

 

Fair enough.

 

But at the same time at the end of chapter 1 Wang Mu says that in actuality he doesn't quote from Awakening to Reality that much but rather relies on other alchemical texts - because that preparation teachings were mainly oral and that a person needed to rely on a teacher to properly do the preparation teachings.

 

I agree with that, again most people do not even achieve the "Laying of the Foundation."

 

And so - hence the need for the first chapter to be three times as long as the other chapters.

 

But I already posted a lot of information that I gleaned from that first chapter. I found it to be a fascinating and very informative read.

 

As someone said - it compliments well the Taoist Yoga book and I completely agree.

 

I would say the final section of Chapter one emphasizes that while the Emptiness creates spirit which creates qi which creates jing the opposite path also works - you can refine jing to build up qi to build up spirit to go back to the Emptiness.

 

And so based on that two way process chapter one concludes that the over all method is "Harmonization" and that it is a three in one path.

 

And so the rest of the book, the "arts of immortality" is actually less reading material than all of chapter one. haha.

[Aetherous]

May be you don't take money personally but those you bought your real method from - do. By criticizing Drew here you improve their market share AND protect your investment, so it comes down to money being involved one way or the other.

 

You're assuming I'm a student of someone on or related to this forum? I'm not.

[Taoist Texts]

You're assuming I'm a student of someone on or related to this forum? I'm not.

no this forum has nothing to do with the fact that you bought your real method from a commercial outfit, regardless from somebody on this forum or not. It also has nothing to do with the fact that, by criticizing Drew you protect their income and your investment, since if Drew can get the method for free from a book, - those two will decrease.

 

So...what do you think about Jinlianpai's theories?