Foundations of Internal Alchemy Wang Mu book

[Taoist Texts]

O.K. so I finished chapter one of Wang Mu.

 

Here's the deal - so far I have no real evidence that any one else posting in this thread has actually read the Wang Mu book. No one else is commenting directly on the content of the book.

 

Its because of the title

 

Foundations of Internal Alchemy The Taoist Practice of Neidan

Wang Mu

 

 

You see, there is no such things as 'internal alchemy' or 'neidan'. Thats why there is not much to comment on.

[Aetherous]

no this forum has nothing to do with the fact that you bought your real method from a commercial outfit, regardless from somebody on this forum or not. It also has nothing to do with the fact that, by criticizing Drew you protect their income and your investment, since if Drew can get the method for free from a book, - those two will decrease.

 

You're right...I'm protecting the income of the commercial outfit that gives "the real method". Gotta protect my investment by convincing others they need to pay. It has nothing to do with steering newbies away from someone that completely misinterprets cryptic texts, so that these newbies can stay safe and seek out something better and more fulfilling and rewarding. Nah...who would waste their time caring about how well others do on their path? It's all about money and what you can get for free!

 

Or in more straightforward terms: you're making huge assumptions here that in truth have nothing to do with me. My purpose here is to help others, and has literally nothing to do with money in any way whatsoever. Is it so inconceivable to you, that people here care about the clarity of spiritual teachings so much that they would call someone out who muddies the path?

Edited April 30, 2015 by Aetherous

[Taoist Texts]

 My purpose here is to help others, and has literally nothing to do with money in any way whatsoever.

Thats cool. I respect your opinion.

 

Is it so inconceivable to you, that people here care about the clarity of spiritual teachings so much that they would call someone out who muddies the path?

Now thats an interesting topic for a chat. How do you determine what is muddling the path and what is not?

 

Say, Drew has a zany theory and say Serge Augier has a theory. How do you know that Drew is wrong and Serge is right?

[voidisyinyang]

O.K. I cruised through chapter 2 because to be honest I didn't think it had that much practical training information.

 

Now first of all it did confirm what the source book for Taoist YOga calls "The End of Leakage" - in other words to refine the essence into breath or refine the jing into qi - there has to be continued celibacy.

 

Now from my understanding the "real school of immortals" doesn't require this celibacy and yet this chapter 2 of the Wang Mu book is the beginning of the "arts of immortality."

 

Pause here for the paradox of "immortal ejaculation." haha.

 

O.K. so then what did I get out of chapter 2?

 

Well I recognized that it referred to stages that are also detailed in the Taoist Yoga book.

 

So then I will have to compare the two again.

 

But before that - I did pick up a new insight in that it would seem the point of refining the jing into qi - is to then using the "yang qi" in the small universe meditation - aka MCO - then increasingly the yin qi of the jing energy (yang jing) is turned into more yang qi - and so - yang qi aka the Lead of the yin or the True Lead - aka the Lunar Tiger as Yuan Qi.

 

O.K. so that makes sense because with Laying the Foundation - this chapter 2 described it as the first taste of Emptiness and that was my understanding also from Taoist Yoga - you fill up the yin qi of the lower tan tien and then by doing so you activate the yang qi of the middle tan tien. By activating that yang qi you also activate the yin shen of the upper tan tien and so you get a taste of Emptiness - an enlightenment experience. As I did - I did achieve this level of "Laying the foundation." But since I had not studied the alchemy texts properly I didn't know what to do with it.

 

O.K. so then let's go to the Taoist Yoga text to compare.

 

First of all Wang Mu says that the refining of jing to qi is the "external medicine" and so this compares to the Taoist Yoga text as I remember - yeah as the "outer alchemical agent."

 

Now in actuality that is still part of "Laying the foundation" and what Wang Mu emphasizes is that not until the external medicine is gathered do you actually achieve the true alchemical pill for the real practice.

 

Yeah right so the "internal medicine" is then the refining of jing into qi and this is chapter six of Taoist Yoga which focuses on rotating the eyes and by doing so having the tiger and dragon copulate - or again bringing out the True Lead - the Yuan Qi or yang qi from out of the yin qi of the jing energy.

 

See when the external medicine is built up that is the "first half" of the practice - it is the Yin Shen manifesting as the Dragon white light that is seen externally outside the eyes - not just internally in the head. So it is an initial taste of Emptiness as the Absolute Void (whereas the relative void is just seeing light internally and not being able to see it externally). So by seeing it externally the pineal gland as the third eye - the Cavity of Original Spirit has opened up a bit - from the joining of the yin shen and yang qi (yuan qi) energy.

 

But originally the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality (yuan qi) has no "wondrous light" - and so that is why the Cavity of Spirit-Vitality - the lower tan tien has to build up the yin qi in order to activate the yang qi of the heart - the original source of the yuan qi that manifests in the pineal gland. So by activating the middle tan tien - that is an initial unification of the yuan shen and yuan qi energy from the heart.

 

O.K. so then Wang Mu in this chapter refers to how the golden light initial manifests twice from this build up of the qi from the essence - but those first two times it is still not strong enough yet - and only at the third time then is the small universe meditation then actually stopped.

 

so that also is a direct comparison from the Taoist Yoga book.

 

Yeah so basically even once the first half is achieved - from "Laying the foundation" then it's really a matter of continuing to build up the energy and continuing to refine it - and that is why there is less need for actual written text about the practice.

 

But it is like climbing a mountain - you go steeper, and actually faster in the sense that your relative distance isn't as far to go - but it takes longer to get there in the sense that it is more dangerous and more easily to fall back, etc.

 

And so Taoist Yoga says - even if you do achieve "laying the foundation" -

 

"If you do not know the teaching of Chapter 6, and can not avoid the risks involved, vitality will turn into generative force."

 

But if you do practice chapter 6 - which is the internal medicine from having the real alchemical pill manifest - then the qi will transmute into shen and then the light of essential nature will manifest in front of you - again this is the first half of the immortal training.

 

Or as Taoist Yoga says, "only then can you lay the foundation of immortality." chapter 7, page 85.

 

So indeed "laying the foundation" as a taste of Emptiness as Wang Mu calls it - is actually the first step of the internal medicine small universe meditation - and by opening up the upper tan tien - it is also the foundation for the "arts of immortality" practice which again is just a continual building up and refinement of the energy.

 

Yeah so Chapter 7 of Taoist Yoga is really reviewing what happens after the external medicine - the yin qi is filled up and "true vitality" - the yang qi within the jing manifests as the real alchemical pill for the internal medicine, the focus of chapter six.

 

The point of Chapter 7 is that when the yin shen light manifests externally - as the light of essential nature - it needs to be focused back in the lower tan tien and the light needs to be surrounded and enveloped by more yang qi energy of the lower tan tien.

 

that is the crucial step that I was missing - actually I didn't even really understand anything after chapter 4 in the Taoist Yoga book. haha.

 

But as chapter 7  and 8 states - if you achieve this first level of the internal medicine you can go without food for a week and I did achieve that state - without any hunger.

 

And then chapter 9 is on the immortal breathing - which again is part of the internal medicine practice. Again I did achieve this state and it is described in Wang Mu as the final stage of "laying the foundation."

 

So we can see there is overlap in this level of practice.

 

Ok so as I said I did achieve chapter 9 - but I didn't even know I had achieved it - since i had not studied the book well enough.

 

Everything happened too fast and I didn't realize the dangers of it - in terms of the need to protect the energy and safeguard it to keep building it up.

 

So then we get to chapter 10 - now note - we are still in the equivalent of chapter 2 of Wang Mu!!!

 

We are still in the "internal medicine" of refining the essence into qi.

 

The golden light has not manifested three times yet.

 

Chapter 10 is focused on ensuring the End of Leakage - because remember only unless celibacy is maintained can any progress be achieved.

 

And so chapter 11 and 12 are the final steps in achieving this golden light from the build up of the yang qi - the True Vitality of the Tiger in the Moon jing energy.

 

And this stage of practice deep serenity is required which means total focus on meditation.

 

It is in this chapter 11 that the dizziness is mentioned - from having the light leave the body.

 

So then more yang qi needs to be developed but if there is any ejaculation then the light will be diminished.

 

So chapter 11 says that when the vitality is raised up to the head - of the seven openings (mouth, eyes, ears, nostrils) of the head the greatest loss of qi is through the mouth from excessive talking and singing. To solve this problem the tongue should be kept against the roof of the mouth at all times.

 

I definitely need to do this - since the qi makes me do excessive talking and singing and so I lose the energy.

 

O.K. so finally in chapter 12 we get the third manifestation of the golden light - now remember this is still the chapter 2 of Wang Mu's book! It is the final stage of refining essence into qi.

 

But when this stage is reached the student needs to go into retreat and make sure no energy is lost.

 

And so the golden light as the yang qi Tiger energy manifesting -

 

and then the "final breakthrough" is achieved - which means refining the qi into spirit - for real astral travel - the real opening up of the top of the skull, etc.

 

Or - chapter 3 of Wang Mu's book.

 

I'll read that tomorrow.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[xuanying]

Chapter one is 65 pages. But the rest of the chapters - 2 and 3 - are only 20 pages each.

 

So the introduction - not even the real "arts of immortality" (chapters 2 and 3) is actually longer than the other 2 chapters combined and the conclusion.

 

Now I know that the more you work your way towards the Emptiness then the less can be said about it.

 

In defense of Wang Mu (and of your explanation) I can say that this is more or less the same proportion you find in the original Neidan texts in the Taoist Canon.

[voidisyinyang]

O.K. so I finished the Wang Mu book. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fterebess.hu%2Fzen%2Fmesterek%2FTaoist-Yoga-Alchemy-and-Immortality.pdf&ei=d09CVZLFPJKDNubtgagL&usg=AFQjCNGy4SrrA7UspVUt4BXCO5nDid_6UA&sig2=tOtcXipmW5PZ-mPbkCCo6g&cad=rja

 

That's the pdf link for Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.

 

I'm now gonna compare again.

 

So we are at chapter 13 of Taoist Yoga which basically says yeah the testicles whither away since all the generative force is turned into qi and any thoughts about passion or beautiful forms of love will mess up the practice.

 

the "method of blocking the generative gate (at the tip of the penis) as is previously taught is only to prevent vitality from draining away in order to preserve life." p. 138

 

But at this stage the genitals have been permanently blocked - shriveled so no erection is possible anymore.

 

So you do a final small universe meditation for the 2nd manifestation of the golden light and at the third manifestation of golden light is when you do the actual breakthrough to leave the body. But if you have a 4th manifestation of golden light it's too late and you'll lose the energy through ejaculation.

 

And so the Golden elixir needs to not be lost through the lower magpie bridge - the anus - and so a wooden bun is sat on to close the anus. Also needs to ascend up the governing channel (not the thrusting channel). This is achieved with the help of a student - pinching and pressing the spine.

 

Then the eyes are rolled and rotating to unite spirit and vitality.

 

The danger now is lose of the golden elixir out of the upper magpie bridge - the nose - and so a clothes pin is used to close the nose.

 

So then the golden elixir will make its descent down the conception channel to the middle tan tien mixing with the yin qi of the liver and then finally to the lower tan tien.

 

At this point all small universe is stopped and only Emptiness is focused on.

 

At this stage no salt should be eaten.

 

At this stage it is very tempting to use the qi energy.

 

So after a couple years of meditation then the immortal foetus rises to the middle tan tien and the golden light manifests for the break through as the immortal foetus rises to the upper tan tien.

 

So then the "flying snow and falling heavenly flowers" are seen. This is the stage that the qigong master I have studied with described has having happened to him - he said his small universe practice had been very deep lately and he had seen this flying snow.

 

And so the golden light will be so bright there is no night experienced and the Emptiness should just be focused on.

 

And this point the golden light can transform the person's physical body into a vapour.

 

But only if the person leaps into the  Emptiness.

 

chapter 15

 

If the person doesn't leap into the Emptiness then he only becomes a seer of the negative spirit plane - of ghosts and spirits, etc.

 

more later.....

[Daeluin]

This thread is about Wang Mu's book. So that's fine if people want to say what I post is wrong but at least provide some evidence - false accusations are just boring to be honest.

 

Yes, this is about Wang Mu's book... but the seed that started this discussion and that has taken fruit was not simply about Wang Mu's book:

 

My plan is to compare this to the Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality book since 1) I know that Taoist Yoga book pretty well now and I consider it the best source for practical training information. 2) the person promoting this Wang Mu book was trashing the Taoist Yoga book by posting half-sentence "quotes" that lied about the meaning of the missing half of the sentence! haha. I find that fascinating - why the need to lie about a book when anyone can read the truth if they want to? Maybe Wang Mu has the answer.

 

And so the seed that has grown has been about comparisons, trashing, best vs worst polarities, and lies.

 

So I did get a chance to read a bit more so far

 

...

 

So then Wang Mu discusses how immortal breathing has to kick in when the Original three treasures are restored - and so the breathing of the pre-celestial qi comes in from the heel and it goes up the governing channel and goes down the conception channel to the lower tan tien where it thereby initiates post-celestial breathing.

 

This is called the breathing of a True Man versus the typical external breathing by the throat. And so the ... external breathing will be very slight but with very long inhalations and very little exhalation.

 

So at this point I should said that indeed I did achieve this "Laying of the Foundation" stage which the True Man breathing kicked in - so that the centers of my feet were pulsating with qi energy as well the centers of my hands and the top of my skull got soft and expanded and also pulsated with qi.

 

As the Wang Mu book says - at this stage the body will be very pliable and with very strong qi and very healthy and basically like a baby with happiness, etc.

 

So for me when I achieved this stage what happened is I had not studied ... well enough and very soon then I lost my yin qi energy

 

...

 

I was able to still maintain enough qi energy and keep my channels open enough where I had several other amazing experiences - but then actually the energy got too strong and I ... Again it wasn't until I studied ... in great detail many years later ... did I realize that my yin shen spirit had left my body with not enough qi energy enveloping my spirit

 

...

 

So my point is that indeed - with this focus on the "Yin Heel" channel as the first thing that needs to be opened - then a proper focus on the standing active exercise can really be appreciated.

 

...

 

So ... Master Nan, Huai-chin ... said ... many students ... achieve ... "Laying of the Foundation" but then they get "heroic over-exuberance" and so then they "fall back into worldliness" and this is what happens for almost all the meditation students. He said it's very difficult because then it is easy to get "righteous anger" all the time

 

...

 

My point is that only by properly understanding the alchemy training can there be real progress made on "Laying the Foundation." And so indeed Wang Mu does provide good direction for that training.

 

For me the problem is that I ... do send out ... energy out ... into other people.

 

...

 

 

 

O.K. so I finished chapter one of Wang Mu.

 

Here's the deal - so far I have no real evidence that any one else posting in this thread has actually read the Wang Mu book. No one else is commenting directly on the content of the book.

 

No one is even really commenting on the content of what I have posted.

 

I see two reasons for this.

1. The seed you planted, mentioned above.
2. You send LOTS of energy out, that people get overwhelmed with. Even without reading it all, there are enough subjective conclusions presented that trigger people to react. Let's take this as a parallel to how you lost your foundation by connecting with that woman, who then experienced a strong energy phenomenon in relation to your energy.

So in combination, you plant seeds that invite subjectivity and feed them profusely, and then are confused when your threads don't follow a stable course.

 

See how I edited your post above? I did my best (sorry) to capture the essence of what you were saying, without the subjectivity. It still is a lot to read, but is much easier to attempt to fully absorb without being overwhelmed (by either the amount or the personalized nature of it).

 

Now I know that the more you work your way towards the Emptiness then the less can be said about it.

 

Fair enough.

 

 

 

 

O.K. I cruised through chapter 2 because to be honest I didn't think it had that much practical training information.

 

Chapter 2 was hugely important for my growth. In general I've come to learn that if everything I read doesn't make complete sense, or if I wonder why so many words are wasted on what seems obvious... it probably means that I'm missing something, and sometimes I might need to come back at another time to fully understand what is hidden beneath those words.

 

...

 

I notice you've invited a discussion here, but are not posting any quotes, and then interpreting the quotes. You just say "it says this." Some of what you attribute Wang Mu with having said raises my eye-brows, as I cannot remember reading that.

 

It might be nice to discuss this with you, but if we are unable to work with specific quotes from the source material, I feel it would be hard to cultivate an objective and open discussion, but rather would devolve into defending subjective personalizations. Having an open discussion would also slow things down considerably.

 

Also I'd recommend reading the book front to back and back to front a few times before drawing conclusions. I find that each section evolves my understanding of the previous sections and then I need to re-read them, and then they in turn reshape my understanding of the later sections. This is very similar to how alchemy works as well, so I think they might do this on purpose to train the mind in understanding circularity.

 

 

... know the teaching of ... the internal medicine ... as a taste of Emptiness

 

...

 

Everything happened too fast and I didn't realize the ... need to protect the energy and safeguard it

 

Are you understanding the relation of non-doing with cultivation of the internal medicine here? This is like turning around the light of the mind. Not allowing it to express, and in my experience goes hand in hand with having the ego completely dissolved... otherwise when the energy is turned around it gets blocked by the ego and especially when the energy is refined it is difficult to avoid reacting to the friction created when the light hits the structure of the ego, and is difficult to find emptiness.

 

I definitely need to do this - since the qi makes me do excessive talking and singing and so I lose the energy.

 

Yes! I'm happy you are realizing this. You share so much with us, and are at a loss for why this generates much push-back - but I think this pushback has merely been a lesson for you to learn to contain yourself more.

 

In the I Ching, hexagram 26 is related to the containing and storing up of heavenly energy, (which I think you are really good at), and then it evolves into hexagram 28, Excess of the Great, where a stage of non-doing is entered, where if one is not empty of desire, they will have great difficulty in not spending all they have stored.

 

This emptiness of desire, despite being able to heal others on so many levels is truly a conundrum - I like to think of Waysun Liao's depiction of Laozi as someone who does not intentionally take action, but even so, is so full of energy that this energy wafts from him unintentionally into the environment where it manifests in the most healing ways possible. Laozi simply trusts. This is very similar to how the ocean simply allows it's vast water to evaporate into the clouds, and subsequently bring water down over the land, filling the lakes and underground aquifers, providing the very potential for land-based live as we know it - but eventually that water returns to the ocean, all without it lifting a finger.

 

If we allow ourselves to cultivate a pattern of using our energy by doing, that pattern will want to maintain its momentum. So you may find yourself in situations where you have to allow a situation to unfold without your intervention, despite really thinking that you need to intervene. But in time perhaps you will find that, as your pattern changes, you will simply be in the right place and right time, and things will change around you simply by your being there, but without you actually taking direct action in any way. This is part of the mystery of dao, and a sign you are getting closer.

 

All the circularity emphasized in daoism, like the small heavnly orbit or great celestial orbit, the five elements, four directions, mysterious center - it all leads to invisibility. They say "walk the circle to find the dao" and "walk the circle and become invisible."

 

Zhuangzi advises that we not shape ourselves into something of value. And I believe Sunzi says that masters heal others such that the other thinks they have healed themselves. This is part of invisibility training. If you allow people to attach to your ability to heal, as Jesus did, then it can yield quite a confusing and powerful momentum, that ultimately entraps one as others attach to it. But there are many like Jesus who simply heal invisibly, we're just blind to it.

 

I like that you are open to and learning much from this book, and that it is helping you see the parallels to Taoist Yoga. I also recommend Liu Yiming's Cultivating the Tao for another perspective.

[voidisyinyang]

Right so Wang Mu says that Zhang Boduan doesn't explicit mention the egress of the yang spirit manifestations - but at the same time says that reincarnation will still occur unless this Taoist stage is achieved. And so despite Zhang Boduan being declared a Chan Immortal by the Emperor - that was more for political expediency while in reality Zhang Boduan was really a Taoist immortal. Nevertheless in the spirit of the unity of the three religions Zhang Boduan does focus and emphasize the Emptiness meditation for the final stage of eternal liberation.

 

And so Taoist Yoga makes the similar statements as Zhang Boduan - the "emptiness which is even more empty...."

 

So then by rolling the eyes the Sun and Moon energies unite for the final leap into the Emptiness.

 

So Taoist Yoga also says in this final stage the golden light will emerge out of the head as a golden body but at the same time a demon will also appear for the final test. So if the test is not passed then the person will still have to reincarnate.

 

And so then by uniting the spirit into your heart as the seat of eternal essential nature then finally the "undying self" as the "true spirit" will manifest in front of the person - with the same features as the person.

 

It should only leave the body once a week and in nice weather and during the day.

 

After 6 months - then once every 3 days.

 

After a year - then once a day.

 

All that time the spirit body should be kept close to the physical body.

 

After 2 years the positive spirit physical golden body can leave the meditation grotto during day or night but needs to return to the body to "suck."

 

After 3 years the positive spirit can go to distant places but if it meets another animal or human it has to return immediately to the physical body - so travel just a half mile or so.

 

At this stage the positive spirit has become an Earth-bound immortal.

 

I actually asked the qigong master if he had achieved the "yang spirit" and he said that once when he was in deep meditation in his house in China people saw his physical body outside of his house....

 

Taoist Yoga says, "you will feel as if coming out a dream and will see another body beside your own." That is what happens when you leave your body.

 

Indeed I did have one brief OBE experience when I fell asleep in full lotus and felt as if someone was on my body - and then I "woke up" from that dream to see my own body in full lotus on the bed. As soon as I saw my own body - from about 15 feet away - I was hovering in the room - then I was sucked back into my own body.

 

Of course what Taoist Yoga is describing is much more powerful.

 

It says at this stage of your physical body leaving - the positive physical golden immortal spirit body - if you have any visions of family or friends just ignore the visions and focus on the Emptiness.

 

The demon vision in the golden light of the physical spirit body is from the remaining left over yin qi energy from the five yin spirit organs.

 

So just keep focusing on the Emptiness and that final yin qi energy will be transformed into the eternal golden body.

 

Only when the features of the golden body are exactly identical to the physical body then the golden body light won't vanish.

 

Meanwhile his own physical body after having absorbed the golden light - it will vanish into the golden vapour.

 

"If he fails to hold onto the golden light his body will fail to evaporate." p. 168

 

Just hold onto the golden light no matter what and the demons will vanish.

 

But if the student "delights" in the light then the training will end.

 

So traces of yin qi in the golden physical spirit body will cause the demonic visions to manifest and so then the golden spirit light needs to be sucked back into the original physical body in order to purify more the yin qi energy.

 

Chapter 16

 

At this point the positive golden spirit body can then appear in the world and do mass healings.

 

But then it will eventually re-enter its original physical body for the final breakthrough.

 

At this stage the positive golden physical spirit body is not allowed to leave the original physical body again.

 

The Emptiness is focused on until the original physical body - "until the four elements (that make the body) scatter and space pulverises leaving no traces behind; this is the golden immortal stage of the indestructible diamond-body."

 

Before that stage is reached - the golden light will become "all-embracing, shining on heaven, earth and myriad things which will appear within its light."

[JinlianPai]

So we are at chapter 13 of Taoist Yoga which basically says yeah the testicles whither away since all the generative force is turned into qi and any thoughts about passion or beautiful forms of love will mess up the practice.

 

the "method of blocking the generative gate (at the tip of the penis) as is previously taught is only to prevent vitality from draining away in order to preserve life." p. 138

 

But at this stage the genitals have been permanently blocked - shriveled so no erection is possible anymore.

 

So you do a final small universe meditation for the 2nd manifestation of the golden light and at the third manifestation of golden light is when you do the actual breakthrough to leave the body. But if you have a 4th manifestation of golden light it's too late and you'll lose the energy through ejaculation.

 

And so the Golden elixir needs to not be lost through the lower magpie bridge - the anus - and so a wooden bun is sat on to close the anus. Also needs to ascend up the governing channel (not the thrusting channel). This is achieved with the help of a student - pinching and pressing the spine.

 

Then the eyes are rolled and rotating to unite spirit and vitality.

 

The danger now is lose of the golden elixir out of the upper magpie bridge - the nose - and so a clothes pin is used to close the nose.

 

So then the golden elixir will make its descent down the conception channel to the middle tan tien mixing with the yin qi of the liver and then finally to the lower tan tien.

 

At this point all small universe is stopped and only Emptiness is focused on.

 

At this stage no salt should be eaten.

 

At this stage it is very tempting to use the qi energy.

 

So after a couple years of meditation then the immortal foetus rises to the middle tan tien and the golden light manifests for the break through as the immortal foetus rises to the upper tan tien.

 

So then the "flying snow and falling heavenly flowers" are seen. This is the stage that the qigong master I have studied with described has having happened to him - he said his small universe practice had been very deep lately and he had seen this flying snow.

 

And so the golden light will be so bright there is no night experienced and the Emptiness should just be focused on.

 

And this point the golden light can transform the person's physical body into a vapour.

 

But only if the person leaps into the  Emptiness.

 

chapter 15

 

If the person doesn't leap into the Emptiness then he only becomes a seer of the negative spirit plane - of ghosts and spirits, etc.

 

more later.....

 

Ok....some of this sounds incorrect.

 

I train in a art that lets up emit gold light and it is named after a golden flower I was taught directly what the golden elixir is.

 

The balls should not shrivel up infact the opposite happens. Its actually easier to get an erection because the golden chi of the earth element replenishes your yin chi. The earth will heal and recharge you.

 

You only get stronger. Hair turns black, skin tightens, and it is erected every morning.

 

When my feet touch the earth the above happens and my body vibrates.

 

The golden light becomes so strong even people who cant aurally see can see it and your not even manifesting the Gum Guang Ging.....

 

The golden Elixir alchemy covers the fully range of earth and saturn connection in chinese astrology of the golden earth element energy.

 

What sounds like that is being describing is more of the universal earth element of the golden energy which is more connected to the saturn end...for the alchemy to be complete you need to connect to the actually earth and cover the full spectrum.

[voidisyinyang]

So first of all we got Opendao claiming he can ejaculate while pursuing immortality.

 

Now we got the Golden Light dude saying that it's wrong for the testes to shrivel and no erection to be possible.

 

I say you two are both going the wrong way - the qi is created by ionizing any fluid into qi energy - using the spirit light to ionize the hormones.

 

So that's why the deeper you go into the spiritual body the more your reproductive organs dessicate and disappear.

 

Also for the person who says that my reading of Wang Mu raised his eyebrows at times - you're gonna have to quote me specifically what caused your eyebrows to raise up. Otherwise it's just a general dismissal based on form and not on content.

 

You want me to provide actual quotes of the book so you have something to work on - well I provided you enough to work on to raise your eyebrows. You claim to have read the book yet obviously you can't quote the book yourself to object to my reading of the text.

 

So I'm willing to help you out - again if you actually quote me first so I know what you're referring to - regardless of whether you read the book or not - I'll take your word for it. haha.

 

So for example the Golden Light dude disagrees with the shrinking of the balls quote - but I did quote the Taoist Yoga book didn't I?

 

"method of blocking the generative gate (at the tip of the penis) as is previously taught is only to prevent vitality from draining away in order to preserve life." p. 138

 

Oh I'm sorry that quote was to disprove Opendao again.

 

O.K. I'll get you a quote.

 

Pdf link I did provide though so you can refer to the text directly.

 

Ok first of all - when I had my enlightenment Emptiness spacetime vortex experience not only did I come out of it completely detached from my physical body and mind - knowing that who I was - it was something not those things - but I also felt that everything is truly the Emptiness whether it's a piece of shit or a golden light body. And so I thought the Emptiness gives a person complete freedom.

 

So I didn't understand yet that in actuality the training, since it's based on harmonization, requires eternal purification and so there isn't complete freedom - there is an inverse relation between celibacy and spiritual energy. Period.

 

That's why there's so few real spiritual masters out there.

 

Wang Mu basically says - well no one really hardly every achieves these final states and so their religious idealism doesn't matter because pursuing them is great for physical health and longevity. Now keep in mind he was writing for the atheist Communist crowd , as the introduction of the book by the translator points out - and so Wang Mu throws down those disclaimers in the text.

 

O.K. so back to the point of contention, page 138.

 

 

"These are the foretelling states pointing to the production of the macrocosmic alchemical agent, and are followed by the withering of the root of lust (in the testicles) and the accompanying transformation of generative force into full vitality. When the latter vibrates, it will crystallize into the immortal seed and only then can the genital organ shrink back as in babyhood. This is the real retractile state when the penis shrinks back and will no longer stand erect, causing the generative gate to shut and so preventing vitality from draining away. The practiser will thus achieve immortality."

Edited April 30, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[Daeluin]

Also for the person who says that my reading of Wang Mu raised his eyebrows at times - you're gonna have to quote me specifically what caused your eyebrows to raise up. Otherwise it's just a general dismissal based on form and not on content.

 

You want me to provide actual quotes of the book so you have something to work on - well I provided you enough to work on to raise your eyebrows. You claim to have read the book yet obviously you can't quote the book yourself to object to my reading of the text.

 

So I'm willing to help you out - again if you actually quote me first so I know what you're referring to - regardless of whether you read the book or not - I'll take your word for it. haha.

 

I hear you telling me what I have to do.... nope, not interested.

 

I hear you telling me I want quotes so that I have something to work on, but that's not why. I want common ground to meet you on, otherwise I'm simply not much interested in a discussion.

 

I hear that you are willing to help me, but I'm not sure when I asked for your help.

 

I heard you asking for a discussion, and offered some suggestions that might result in getting one.

[SecretGrotto]

So first of all we got Opendao claiming he can ejaculate while pursuing immortality.

 

I don't think opendao really believes that, all he is saying is that abstinence is not required for the entire duration of the process, but only during certain key stages.

 

If it comes across as him directly stating that one can ejaculate regardless, then it is just opendao trying to emphasize his position that there is more going on, things that are too difficult to explain.

 

So he is making a stance at the risk of being brash and ultimately inaccurate. I welcome clarification or rebuttal from opendao.

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah actually you are reminding me of that topic in detail - and as Taoist Yoga explains - you need at least 600 days of celibacy to achieve the first "critical" stage of training.

 

So a couple years of celibacy.

 

He ain't practicing that in his "pursuit" of immortality.

 

Hilarious! haha.

 

But yeah it is convenient to say - oh but celibacy is not required after "100 days" - which is what their school says. Even if that 100 days is metaphorical and not exact and varies depending on the person - Taoist Yoga says it's a lot more than 100 days.

 

If you're chaste youth with a pure heart - then yes 100 days of training.

 

Otherwise - a couple years of celibacy. haha.

 

So we're talking immortality here.

 

I mean the claim is that the qigong masters are doing healings and so they are not pursuing immortality.

 

that's fair enough. But at least the qigong masters are actual doing practical energy work.

 

They make themselves available for Western science testing of their abilities to heal, etc.

 

They heal many people.

 

But the immortal dudes are like - yeah we gotta have our wives to pass on our immortal lineage and celibacy is only for critical stages - and yes the real training is secret - you all are fake!

 

Hilarious!

 

The source book for Taoist Yoga says the number one false teaching is that celibacy is not required.

 

The main cause for not progressing in training is that the very energy that is built up also makes a spiritual person - a "chick magnet." haha. When I build up my celibacy as yin qi energy - I get chased down.

 

I tried leaving this lady the other day - and she literally chased me down.

 

Same happened with this other lady - I was walking real fast to keep her from not sucking up my energy - and she followed me in hot pursuit. haha. Hilarious!

[voidisyinyang]

The other thing is that the Qigong Fever happened when China was still very "traditional" which in modern parlance means sexist. I read this western white lady who went to China in the 1980s and she wrote a memoir - her husband was a professor there and she said how the ladies in China are not supposed to speak in public unless first spoken to. Try that in the U.S. where being a feminist means pursuing your lust as liberation! haha. So to be a "spiritual person" in China in the 1980s is very different from modern times where it's all based on the "sex sells" commodity fetish - basically porn is mainstream now. I've had females be down right lewd to me - making masturbation gestures and literally masturbating in front of me while standing up. haha.

 

But then the original use of this training was to "heal" the females and so - the immortal alchemy thing was considered to be "hoarding N/om" and a big no, no. What happened is males went off in solitude to master the "yang spirit" transformation bodies - and the rest of the tribe was scared of these dudes. That's the origin of alchemy training - it spread out of Ethiopia in ancient times.

 

So I'm not chastising anyone - I'm just saying the hypocrisy is hilarious.

 

And again - if people want to actually comment on the content of Wang Mu's book instead of just broad dismissals of me as a person - then go ahead.

 

So far I got one comment about the content of what I've posted - and my response has garnered another comment.

 

Personally I am quite happy with the Wang Mu book - I got a lot out of it but mainly because it corroborated the Taoist Yoga book and inspired me to study that book more.

 

O.K> I just had a weird synchronicity where I discovered something....

 

 

An academic analysis< "the Secrets of Alchemy" 2014 March.

 

 

The Secrets of Alchemy. By Lawrence M. Principe. (Chicago, IL: University of Chicago
Press, 2012. Pp. 281. $25.00.)
Alchemy is one of the occult sciences but has received somewhat less attention
than astrology or magic during the last three decades and still suffers from a
degree of old-fashioned or ill-informed publicity. It requires of its historians a
wide and perhaps unusual range of abilities, and here the topic is well treated by
Lawrence M. Principe, who combines linguistic expertise, historical subtlety, and
laboratory experience to a degree that makes him one of the finest and most
trustworthy exponents of the subject.

 

https://vimeo.com/53880152

 

He's giving a lecture - hour long on his book.

 

Could be interesting depending on how much Taoist focus he gives....

Edited May 1, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[voidisyinyang]

 

this will load faster.

 

I'm not changing the subject - just saying maybe this dude has some interesting info to add on Taoist alchemy.

 

Probably not.

[voidisyinyang]

Nope - Western alchemy, not Taoist.

[voidisyinyang]

Actually he is digging into what Gurdjieff proposed as alchemy using hydrogen.

[voidisyinyang]

http://innersoundqigong.blogspot.com/2015/04/my-reading-of-wang-mus-foundations-of.html

 

O.K. I combined my above comments on the Wang Mu book comparing it to Taoist Yoga as a blog post.

 

thanks for the feedback people.

[opendao]

I don't think opendao really believes that, all he is saying is that abstinence is not required for the entire duration of the process, but only during certain key stages.

 

If it comes across as him directly stating that one can ejaculate regardless, then it is just opendao trying to emphasize his position that there is more going on, things that are too difficult to explain.

 

So he is making a stance at the risk of being brash and ultimately inaccurate. I welcome clarification or rebuttal from opendao.

 

in some schools celibacy is not needed at all, at any stage.

[JinlianPai]

So first of all we got Opendao claiming he can ejaculate while pursuing immortality.

 

Now we got the Golden Light dude saying that it's wrong for the testes to shrivel and no erection to be possible.

 

I say you two are both going the wrong way - the qi is created by ionizing any fluid into qi energy - using the spirit light to ionize the hormones.

 

So that's why the deeper you go into the spiritual body the more your reproductive organs dessicate and disappear.

 

Also for the person who says that my reading of Wang Mu raised his eyebrows at times - you're gonna have to quote me specifically what caused your eyebrows to raise up. Otherwise it's just a general dismissal based on form and not on content.

 

You want me to provide actual quotes of the book so you have something to work on - well I provided you enough to work on to raise your eyebrows. You claim to have read the book yet obviously you can't quote the book yourself to object to my reading of the text.

 

So I'm willing to help you out - again if you actually quote me first so I know what you're referring to - regardless of whether you read the book or not - I'll take your word for it. haha.

 

So for example the Golden Light dude disagrees with the shrinking of the balls quote - but I did quote the Taoist Yoga book didn't I?

 

 

Oh I'm sorry that quote was to disprove Opendao again.

 

O.K. I'll get you a quote.

 

Pdf link I did provide though so you can refer to the text directly.

 

Ok first of all - when I had my enlightenment Emptiness spacetime vortex experience not only did I come out of it completely detached from my physical body and mind - knowing that who I was - it was something not those things - but I also felt that everything is truly the Emptiness whether it's a piece of shit or a golden light body. And so I thought the Emptiness gives a person complete freedom.

 

So I didn't understand yet that in actuality the training, since it's based on harmonization, requires eternal purification and so there isn't complete freedom - there is an inverse relation between celibacy and spiritual energy. Period.

 

That's why there's so few real spiritual masters out there.

 

Wang Mu basically says - well no one really hardly every achieves these final states and so their religious idealism doesn't matter because pursuing them is great for physical health and longevity. Now keep in mind he was writing for the atheist Communist crowd , as the introduction of the book by the translator points out - and so Wang Mu throws down those disclaimers in the text.

 

O.K. so back to the point of contention, page 138.

 

 

Innersoundqqigong,

 

You replied to me but I dont think you fully understood what I was saying.

 

in taoist astrology the earth element has 2 parts the earth and saturn(which is the manifestation of the universal earth element) yin and yang.

 

this relates to the golden elixir in the golden lotus alchemy one can do the standing meds and work with gold light which lets you manifest it to the world.

 

That is universal earth element Yang. Saturn

 

The seated meds is the golden earth energy of actual earth yin.

 

Together with both of these you access and use the fully spectrum of the earth element.

 

Having such a powerful connection with the earth helps you handle the very powerful vibration of the yang of the universal earth element.

 

The alchemy you are referring to is more of the yang manifestation of the gold light and thus the depletion of the jing essence because its not matched with the earth yin.

 

Edited May 1, 2015 by JinlianPai

[voidisyinyang]

thanks for the clarification.

 

So yeah - Saturn makes sense as it's the God of Time - Jupiter protects Earth from comets and asteroids - but sometimes Saturn and Jupiter resonate in their orbits and this resonance energy causes a comet or asteroid to then wipe out all 3-D life on Earth - and without 3-D bifocal vision then our vision lacks the dimension of depth and without dimension of spatial depth we probably also lack the illusion of linear time.

 

So Saturn is very much like Kronos - I think Kronos may have been the god of Saturn and Kronos as Chronos is like Kala (time) as Kali - the destruction and creation of time as a spiral that reverses direction.

 

And so the Earth energy is the "yin qi" energy that is taken in.

 

The Taoist Yoga training does say this "yin qi" energy has to be totally transformed into "yang qi" energy from the yuan qi.

 

the only way that is achieved is through total celibacy.

 

Whereas relying on taking in Earth energy - is also like relying on taking in female jing energy from other humans.

 

This energy is unfortunately not pure since it's a lower emotional energy - whereas to get yang qi you have to achieve "pre-celestial" or "yuan jing" energy - not jing yin qi energy from Earth or females or humans in general.

 

So I would say the reason there are very few - if any real "golden" immortal spiritual masters today is because the Earth and human yin energy is very impure and polluted.

 

For example the Ganges is considered the most spiritual river on Earth and yet it has 1000 times the acceptable level of pollution - as measured at Varanasi - the most spiritual city on the Ganges.

 

For China the Yangtze is also one of the most polluted rivers on Earth and I'm sure the Yellow river isn't doing much better.

 

So to take in the yin qi energy of Earth is not so easy - water is considered the best yin qi energy source from Earth.

 

It is said the magnetic force of Earth used to be much stronger - since the magnetic field changes in strength - but the thing is that electromagnetic pollution is at least 40 times stronger now than 50 years ago - and so to take in the Earth yin qi - it is best to stand barefoot on the Earth - or even better - be buried into the Earth.

 

But you want the bottom of the feet in the Earth as the "yin heel" channel is what builds up the yin qi energy.

 

But you are talking about taking in the yin jing energy through the perineum directly in sitting meditation - and this is from the female yin jing energy - which is from lust and so it's impure.

 

You can take in yin qi energy from Earth directly I'm sure just by sitting on the ground in full lotus - and through the perineum.

 

I have done this also.

 

But as I said - the electromagnetic pollution varies greatly in cities.

 

So a recent study showed that birds lose direction in the cities due to electrosmog - and so just going a couple miles out of the city has much better sense of direction for the birds because animals are very sensitive to having pure yin qi energy from the Earth.

 

You can tell if you take in the Earth's yin qi energy because there is an internal tingling - this is the yin qi neutralizing the internal free radicals.

 

So you can see in this Taoist Yoga training - they say to only let out the yang spirit for a half mile or mile and if it sees another human and animal the golden light spirit body has to immediately return to its original physical body.

 

So it's like a Buddhist manual I read for Mahayana enlightenment - the first prerequisite was to be a least 2 miles from the closest village.

 

So you can see this is a very strict requirement of purification of Earth energy - not just taking in the yin qi energy from the Earth - but purified Earth energy.

 

For example the qigong masters regularly have to clean out "ghost pollution" from a room or area - and it can take several visits.

 

What is ghost pollution - it is yin shen energy that has lower emotional yin qi energy stuck to it - holding the yin shen to earth as a kind of wandering dream state of lower emotional energy.

 

So we modern humans don't realize that ghost pollution is rampant and basically modern humans are actually ghosts - we are just not aware of it.

 

And so the Earth's energy is being killed off - Gurdjieff mentioned this - how the dominant life on Earth has to help the moon spiritual evolve or else the Moon will destroy all life on Earth and start ecology over again.

 

Why? Because the Moon governs the cycles of Yin Qi energy on Earth - through the control of water on Earth.

 

And so how to help the Moon spiritually evolve? By first of all building up and purifying the yin qi energy - as from Yuan Jing energy.

 

So I don't think what you are saying is mutually exclusive. I suppose if we mess up with the Moon's resonance around Earth - that is going to affect the Saturn's resonance with Jupiter and so then a comet or asteroid will destroy all life on Earth - or else just messing up the Moon's resonance will destroy life on Earth.

 

So if we have a whole society out of synch with the Moon's energy then we don't know how to build up the yin qi energy that is purified - as with the Full Moon the meditation is ten times stronger but modern humans are totally out of synch with that.

 

So instead we have electromagnetic pollution that is also destroying all the fresh water on Earth - using it up and polluting it - and the sea levels are rising due to overheating the earth from too much carbon dioxide that is supposed to be sucked up by plants which then transpire fresh water out of their leaves - creating fresh water rain.

 

So yeah it's a good point because Alchemy is based on individualized immortality by storing up the energy individually - and from this arose the Solar Dynasty ritual priest class - the Undead Priests.

 

This arose from mind yoga relying on the left brain and left vagus nerve - the reptilian vagus nerve that controls the heart directly - and so it goes past the heart - and so that's why the priest becomes the Undead.

 

For that ability - also it's based on just infinite logic of mind control but also on total separation from females - no eye contact even - and so it is also very misogynistic. And so no focus on healing abilities of the females.

 

Finally the Undead Priests don't need to show any spiritual abilities - no proof - only need to assert the logical truth of their immortality - as their own secret.

 

So it's a kind of negative proof - everyone else is wrong.

 

And so the secret Solar Dynasty Undead Alchemy Priests - I'm talking about the Brahmin caste but this spread everywhere with "divide and average" mathematics - and so then it relies on a caste system and logarithmic technology that inherently defines infinity through a "contained" materialism - just as the energy is "contained" inside the individual's body.

 

That's what makes alchemy different than just doing healing energy.

 

Of course this is ultimate a lie - that an individual can achieve immortality - because it is only through the infinite formless consciousness that immortality is allowed and this is a totally impersonal energy.

 

So then to say - that only when the golden spirit body looks exactly like the body of the person doing the meditating - otherwise it still has demonic yin qi blockages in it - this is a type of deep exorcism of the person's soul to try to achieve the body's perfection as it was found at puberty I suppose.

 

But the thing is that in the end - what happens to that body? It is pulverized. And so I think pulverized with it is any individualized form - the golden spirit body is made up of qi and shen energy - and it can transform into any physical matter that it chooses to do so.

 

The question is - since it won't reincarnate again - then what physical form will it choose to take? Apparently none since it has just escaped reincarnation. haha. Instead the qi-shen energy is at one with the universe as a whole - unified back into the spacetime source of reality that is eternally creating energy impersonally.

 

You can see how easily this philosophy of individualized immortality would become corrupted into a materialized infinity as logarithmic geometry for modern technology that is destroying the Earth's energy from the resonance with the female Lunar energy.

[JinlianPai]

Good Points

but

 

There also seems to be some misunderstanding in this.

 

Golden energy of the earth is what is being used its not just earth chi.

 

There are 2 parts of the earth element.

 

1. Is the earth element in the universe which isnt as yin for it is the earth element energy that is outside in the universe 

2. The actual earth itself which broadcast a very strong earth element to us because it is the center of our life. So universal earth element is strong and expressed thru the planet but it is the center expression of the earth element so it is more yin.

 

Both of the energies are golden. One is yin and one is yang

 

You will not be a immortal with out both.

 

And you need to connect to earth as center before you connect to the earth element in the universe.

 

The path is the center.

 

So what this is like from a first hand experience is that connection with the earth will make your aura and energy golden and the earth will heal and charge you. 

 

This is earth yin

 

Earth Yang will let you manifest the golden energy which correlates more to actual gold.

 

Gold is the representation of the earth element in the universe.

 

When you work with earth yang it creates a powerful golden vibration thru the body that is almost euphoric. 

 

you must work with earth yin so you can handle earth yang.

 

This is the Golden Earth Immortal only second to the golden dragon.

 

Now lets get into heavenly immortals this is represented by the Azure Dragon or sky dragon.

 

The Azure dragon works with east sunrise liver gallbladder and thunder and sky.

 

Some ancient taoist believed that since heaven rules earth that the thunder practices of the east were more important than the golden dragon.

 

but this is incorrect 

 

The golden earth energy has wide reaching implications its direction is center. Center of life center of earth center of the tao.

 

as the lopan suggest

 

 

This is how the confusion of heaven immortals and earth immortals began.

 

Yes with the azure dragon practice or any practice derived from it the sky will heal and charge you but it isnt the center of all so it is not above the golden earth immortal.

[JinlianPai]

But this goes into some history 

 

As the Azure Dragon and Golden Dragon are both dragons. 

 

One of earth and one of heaven

 

This has been a long standing issue that continues till this day...

 

To the point where u have practitioners thinking the Zhen qi is the golden elixir.

 

Now if the Azure Dragon practice makes so the sky itself heals and charges you what do you think happens eventually that is intune with the Azure dragon?

 

All alchemic thunder practices of the east come from this.....

 

The Sky dragon of the east has always sought power of the golden dragon who is the source of all elements.

[JinlianPai]

This is so much deeper than what is known publicly.

 

If in the golden dragon and golden lotus alchemy if the earth heals and charges you what do you think eventually happens?

 

Golden dragon can go anywhere in the earth.

 

Azure dragon can go anywhere in the sky and thus earth.

 

As the thunder practices were growing the golden dragon practice was turned into the golden lotus and spread to the people.

 

And was given to shaolin and taoist in china.

 

What went to the taoist became the secret of the golden flower.

 

Till this day we dont know if this was an attempt to combine the azure and golden dragons or if this was an attempt to take control of the golden dragon and gain is power by the azure dragon.

 

The golden lotus has been watching for awhile...

 

Azure dragon relates to the liver which is related to anger  and egotism when out of balance...

[JinlianPai]

Dragons were used because a dragon is unlimited as they can travel by land sea and air