where to start ?

[Bruce Qi]

SO I am looking to dip my toes into the occult , western alchemy etc, what book is good to get a an initial grasp of all this ?

 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

As a single volume introduction to magic as it was practiced in the late Twentieth Century you cannot beat:
 
Don Kraig, Modern Magick, on Amazon.com
 
I knew Don Kraig personally, and he was a fine person, an excellent writer, and knowledgeable about what he wrote with a good sense of personal integrity.  All the internet "wunderkinds" read this and it is a good place to start in order to judge anything that they write.
 
There has been a great renaissance in the art of Alchemy in the late Twentieth Century, largely the result of this man:
 
Frater Albertus
 
While his works and many other works ancient and modern are of value the best single volume introduction to Western Alchemy is probably, A Treatise on the Great Art by Pernety, freely available as a download on the link here:
 

 

PDF Version:  http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/alchemy/The_Great_Art.pdf

 
Thanks for posting this 'dawai', it will make it available to interested parties.  This was one of the fundamental books in my understanding because it is the only one to clarify the nature of real Great Work as involving three stages, the development of the fire, the generation of the perfect sulfur and the compounding of the 'elixir' which is the actual 'medicine of metals' and is also used for treating people.  This I was able to equate with the idea of three Dan in Chinese internal alchemy as part of what I have described as fruitful cross cultural comparison.  This was not the only similarity, but only one of many.  What is described in the second part for metals holds true for herbal working as well, it is paradigmatic of alchemical practice, which should not be confused with the outer method of making 'stones' and 'tinctures', which is sometimes called spagyrics to differentiate it from the genuine alchemical process.
 
This is why this book is so important as a general overview, the Hermetic model of the cosmos which it describes is the model for all true alchemical operations, it is the Macrocosm of which, what is going on in the alchemists vessels must be an accurate microcosm, if it is not the operation fails.  Thus the key to the book is seeing how the description of nature laid out in the first part is reflected in the paradigmatic operations of the second part

I have quoted my own post to give it some context.

 

There is unfortunately no single work that covers both fields well, and these are only a beginning to a long and complex study.

 

Undoubtedly, other people will chime in with their own thoughts.

 

Good Luck.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Accidentally hit post while still editing this and need to complete it.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Zhongyongdaoist

[noonespecial]

SO I am looking to dip my toes into the occult , western alchemy etc, what book is good to get a an initial grasp of all this ?

 

You did not mention QBL but I'm assuming that is included by default?

 

If so, this, in my opinion, is still the best kabbalah site on the net:

 

http://www.digital-brilliance.com/

 

Mr. Low's book on the subject is not only free but beats the majority of titles available on Amazon:

 

http://www.digital-brilliance.com/contributed/nok/index.php

 

An excellent video overview of the Tree of Life by Low:

 

 

Bill Heidrick's document on Abramelin is also highly recommended:

 

http://www.digital-brilliance.com/contributed/index.php

 

Notable mention, The Secret Fire by Mark Stavish

 

http://hermetic.com/stavish/essays/secret-fire.html

 

All the core Hermetic documents:

 

http://www.hermetics.org/library/Library_Hermetic.html

 

The Corpus Hermeticum, Emerald Tablet, and Chaldean Oracles are great places to start.

[maldor]

Carl Jung - Archetypes. The basic principles are psychological. "Active imagination".

[Bruce Qi]

Thanks everyone , so , I  am probably totally wrong here but are most western systems based on solomon , jewish quabalah , etc ?

is there any say , pagan workings , maybe norse or celtic ? anything non jewish if that doesnt sound too anti-semitic.

[Seth Ananda]

There is plenty in that direction as well. 
 

http://www.quareia.com/  has a free learning program with very little Kabbalah in it, and aims at setting up good foundations to be able to use {really well} whatever system you find yourself gravitating towards.

There are various Celtic reconstruction, pagan and Druidry movements out there.

The Norse Asatru is a huge movement.

 

And then you get to my personal favorite which is Traditional Witchcraft, which is more folkloric in flavour, and Is very influenced by both Celtic and Norse sorcery practices and theory.

[noonespecial]

Central Asian shamanism probably has more in common with what you're looking for than any reconstructed celtic systems, all these reconsructed movements are heavily influenced by the GD even if they hide it.

 

Also, if it makes you feel any less anti-semitic, a lot of kabbalah seems to be cribbed from Zoroastrian, Chaldean, Phoenician, Egyptian and Greek.

Edited April 30, 2015 by noonespecial

[RiverSnake]

Books are great, but if I were too go back in time, these are the two practices I would have started earlier on which helped push me where I was most suited....magically speaking:

 

1. Ancestral Work

2. Holy Guardian Angel

Edited April 30, 2015 by OldChi

[Aetherous]

I'd say to look for a school or training program. Google search many different keywords related to the subject, and dig into what's offered out there. Dig deep...search far and wide.

Reading a book will give you an idea of what's in that particular stream of thought (for instance, kaballah, tarot, solomonic magick, etc)...but that's likely not the entirety of what's considered to be the occult or alchemy.

Keep searching.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Thanks everyone , so , I  am probably totally wrong here but are most western systems based on solomon , jewish quabalah , etc ?

is there any say , pagan workings , maybe norse or celtic ? anything non jewish if that doesnt sound too anti-semitic.

 

Central Asian shamanism probably has more in common with what you're looking for than any reconstructed celtic systems, ll these reconsructed movements are heavily influenced by the GD even if they hide it.

 

Also, if it makes you feel any less anti-semitic, a lot of kabbalah seems to be cribbed from Zoroastrian, Chaldean, Phoenician, Egyptian and Greek. But here we have more 'brown' people magic. lol.

 

I  am probably totally wrong here but are most western systems based on solomon , jewish quabalah: Lucky for you you're only partially wrong.  The question is where does "jewish quabalah" come from?

 

cribbed from . . . Greek: While the sources mentioned also contributed to it, the important part, its formal and logical structure is almost purely an adaptation of Greek thinking as it developed from Plato, to Plotinus, Iamblichus and Proclus.  It is a very useful adaptation mind you, and one which I prefer to those that these last named philosophers attempted to created out of traditional Greek mythology.  Those parts of Qabalah that have been assimilated into Western Magical practice since 1500, are logically clear and elegant once you start to understand their fundamental structure and a study of those Platonic philosophers that I mentioned is an excellent way of understanding that structure.

 

I came to these conclusions after a lot of study and research, conducted decades ago and which I assimilated into my practice.  The research was based on sound academic sources, not occultist or new age woo woo, much less anti-Semitic tracts.

 

If you want to deprive yourself of the benefits of using Qabalah as system, that's your choice, but it is not one that I would recommend to you or anyone else.

 

If you actually want to practice Magic and understand Western alchemy  you should pay attention to what I have said, if what you want is to practice some form of quasi Nordic or Celtic Shamanism, while studying magic would help you their more than you might imagine, you should pay attention to some of the other posts and you might find the thread on:

 

Traditional Witchcraft

 

is an excellent place to start data mining.

[noonespecial]

cribbed from . . . Greek: While the sources mentioned also contributed to it, the important part, its formal and logical structure is almost purely an adaptation of Greek thinking as it developed from Plato, to Plotinus, Iamblichus and Proclus.  It is a very useful adaptation mind you, and one which I prefer to those that these last named philosophers attempted to created out of traditional Greek mythology.  Those parts of Qabalah that have been assimilated into Western Magical practice since 1500, are logically clear and elegant once you start to understand their fundamental structure and a study of those Platonic philosophers that I mentioned is an excellent way of understanding that structure.

Absolutely, good post. Also, QBL is tremendously beneficial in hyper practical ways too, beyond the woo woo.

[Bruce Qi]

So I bought modern magick , got about 40 pages in and really not into all the hebrew stuff ;(

reciting hebrew words of power etc , not for me sadly.

[noonespecial]

So I bought modern magick , got about 40 pages in and really not into all the hebrew stuff ;(

reciting hebrew words of power etc , not for me sadly.

 

LOL, thats no big deal man, I went through an anti-Hebrew phase too, once I realized there is nothing inherently magikal in the language itself (it's a tool), but the sacredness attributed to it by the practioners which kindles the desire which in turn opens up the internal gateways for the fire to flow (a case can be made for the sonic quality of the phonetics, but I'm not to sure that matters based on experience).

 

I've also used Greek, English works well too (lol who would have guessed), I even devised a Middle Pillar/LBRP type rituals in Farsi, using the Zoroastrian pantheon, even collobrating gemtria values, etc., wored like gangbusters (for me), now I really don't use any words at all.

 

 

Ultimately, the question is, what are your goals? I mean are you just trying to heal, get money or get laid, or are you looking towards transcendant truth, eternal life, etc?

[Nungali]

Well, you did define your search in the first post. So you got very good advice about that in some above posts. The other areas seem tangential although they may spark your interest and are not really 'occult'  and certainly not western alchemy but 'cultural', 'religious' or 'mythological' practices 'sects' or revivals - with the exception, perhaps of the traditional witch craft. 

 

Often these groups have adopted a type of occult practice . but, so as not to split hairs too much, the above post's last paragraph seems more important (and well said ) .

 

Actually. no, you shouldn't just jump in or just dip a toe without being confronted at the 'threshold' ;

 

Who are you ?

 

What do you want ?

 

What is you aim and purpose ? 

 

Regardless of what you do or how you do it , in one  form or another, eventually you will keep coming back to those issues and the answers you come up with will define the path/s you take. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Could you post some more about this Fasi / Zoroastrian 'LBR'   ( something there sounds familiar ? ) 

[Michael Sternbach]

Thanks everyone , so , I  am probably totally wrong here but are most western systems based on solomon , jewish quabalah , etc ?

is there any say , pagan workings , maybe norse or celtic ? anything non jewish if that doesnt sound too anti-semitic.

 

Well, you might be interested in Julius Evola's The Mystery of the Grail - Initiation and Magic in the Quest for the Spirit then, which links the Celtic Grail myth with Rosicrucianism, alchemy, and Masonry. An illuminating book, although I must caution you that some of Evola's other books are coloured by his "Nietzschean" world view and extremist political views, not free of racism and sexism.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Grail-Initiation-Magic-Spirit/dp/0892815736/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1432461624&sr=8-8&keywords=evola+julius

Edited May 24, 2015 by Michael Sternbach