UK General Election 2015: Who will you vote for?

[Apech]

As far as I can tell only four types of people vote Conservative:

 

1 ) the rich and powerful

2 ) those who want to be rich and powerful

3 ) those who look up to the rich and powerful and think they know best

4 ) people who have been fooled into thinking the rich and powerful give a damn about them and their lives.

[Marblehead]

Sad that the meaning of "conservative" has changed so much over the years.

 

I still consider myself a conservative but it has nothing to do with the four types of people noted above.

[Apech]

Sad that the meaning of "conservative" has changed so much over the years.

 

I still consider myself a conservative but it has nothing to do with the four types of people noted above.

 

 

Well I can sympathise.  There used to be a kind of conservatism which simply meant more or less keep things the same ... and what they considered 'the same' was quite benign.  It was old fashioned but it was essentially well meaning.  But since Thatcher this has changed into a kind of hard edged uncaring selfishness.  The values which the UK used to stand for like fairness, balance and pragmatic realism seem to have gone.  And even though you can say those values were never properly followed they were still there to measure everything against.  Even Cameron in his victory speech quoted those values (as did Thatcher) but you know as soon as they enter 10 Downing Street it will be back to the same dirty business.

[Marblehead]

Yep.  Same thing happens here.  The nature of the animal, I suppose.

 

A conservative is one who conserves.  Waste not, want not.  And all that stuff that doesn't seem to matter much any more.

 

And in truth, I see the same coming from the liberals (your Labour). 

 

I know America will never again be as it was between the mid-1940s to the mid-1960s.  But except for Black Americans, life was good and the government, in the most part, represented the will of the people.

 

I think it can be said that the people no longer have a will.  Our governments have reduce our will to compliance.  The rule of Law and all that bullshit.  And who makes the laws?  The rich and powerful, of course.

[Brian]

It is Kabuki theater and y'all don't seem to know it yet.

 

Should you ever choose the red pill and unplug the matrix cable, look me up and we'll have a long talk.

[Apech]

It is Kabuki theater and y'all don't seem to know it yet.

 

Should you ever choose the red pill and unplug the matrix cable, look me up and we'll have a long talk.

 

We're happy to talk.  tell us what you think.

[dust]

Yes, I'd love to know what you're alluding to Brian..

 

 

A conservative is one who conserves.  Waste not, want not.  And all that stuff that doesn't seem to matter much any more.

 

Our definitions of 'conservative' are quite different...

 

And it's worth noting that conservative is different to Conservative, right?

 

In my dictionary,

 

--  a conservative doesn't like change. He holds on to 'traditional values' as if just because they're traditional they are worth something..

 

--  a Conservative (in theory) likes free enterprise, private property, limited government control, etc.

 

Where I see it going wrong is

[a] when people take free enterprise too far (corporations being able to do whatever it takes to make money);

when 'limited government control' extends to the government only helping the rich to maintain their wealth;

[c] when people think that because they believe in Conservative free enterprise they must also believe in a conservative aversion to change.

[zerostao]

a politcal conservative is one who supports 90% of all money going to the top1/10 of the top 1%.

we are in a conservative reality now according to this.

in the us a politcal conservative supports the miltary industrial complex where basically the us spends as much on the miltary as the rest of the world combined.

the money spent on miltary is for the supllying corporations benefits solely. returned soldiers benefits and programs are reduced by consrvatives.

supports the medical industrial complex, where there is no incentive to have a healthy population.

the ideal is to have every american on chronic medications.

supports the religious industrial complex, trying to impose a very narrow specific state religion with its perceived morals imposed on the population.

supports wasting all natural resources for the sake of proffit alone.

supports the rights of money and corporations over the rights of people.

politcal consrvatives in the us only consider the rights of stock holders.

even in the case of the news media , the federal stated objective for a newshow since 1987 is for profiit as opposed to reporting the news.

for the record i am not a politcal conservative.

in the past presidential election cycle 2012, each of the 2 parties. which go by different names but all bow down to corporatism, spent 1 billion for the campaign.

this upcoming cycle , 2016, one family alone will spend that much, i wont mention those brothers names, but ralis has had them under his surveillance for some time.

that golden age that marblehead refers to in american history, the tax rate on the weathiest of americans under a republican president no less, approached 90%. i dont think we have to repeat that, but the rich have been stealing from the poor for far too long and they are never satisfied, the level of disparity is at an all time high and their greed is still ravenously expanding. funds paid into by working class families such as social security have been raided numerous times to the point of very possible insolvency, this problem was artificially created by conservatives.

like apech said tories are plain evil. it's simple.

political conservatives support the continued intrusive surveillance of its own citizens.

i could go on.

Edited May 9, 2015 by zerostao

[Jetsun]

Oh god, its only been one day and they say they are going to now push through more state surveillance, the Tories now believe they have a mandate to do whatever they want, the right wing monster that was formerly shackled by coalition may have been fully unleashed

[Marblehead]

If the poor people would stop paying taxes the project would be scrapped because there is no way in hell the wealthy are going to pay for such nonsense.

[Rara]

Yep. Same thing happens here. The nature of the animal, I suppose.

 

A conservative is one who conserves. Waste not, want not. And all that stuff that doesn't seem to matter much any more.

 

And in truth, I see the same coming from the liberals (your Labour).

 

I know America will never again be as it was between the mid-1940s to the mid-1960s. But except for Black Americans, life was good and the government, in the most part, represented the will of the people.

 

I think it can be said that the people no longer have a will. Our governments have reduce our will to compliance. The rule of Law and all that bullshit. And who makes the laws? The rich and powerful, of course.

EXACTLY!

 

And we have the "privelege" of voting for these people.

 

Slavery? An extreme word to use as we don't have it that bad, but still.

 

It's like this:

"I am rich and/or powerful and you, the people aren't. But we encourage you to vote because you need a political voice. Why? Because that's the meme that goes round.

 

That's right folks, we are needed because we say so. We'll tell you this subliminally in media so that you believe it.

 

Thank you for giving me this job and also paying me. Slave bitches."

 

That pretty much sums it up for me.

 

Now then, back to my actual life

[dust]

I got caught up in the frenzy.. the idea that something different might actually happen this time around.

 

Hah!

[Apech]

I got caught up in the frenzy.. the idea that something different might actually happen this time around.

 

Hah!

 

 

I see Blair and Mandelson have some out of the woodwork criticising Labour under Miliband ... so soon!

 

I think you can forget 'anything different' unless you want to start your own grass roots movement like Podemos in Spain.

 

I like Marbles definition of conservative 'waste not want not' and can relate to that but actually I think our Conservatives are more conserve = hold on to power whatever the cost.

[Marblehead]

I got caught up in the frenzy.. the idea that something different might actually happen this time around.

 

Hah!

Now that is funny!!!!!

[Marblehead]

 

I like Marbles definition of conservative 'waste not want not' and can relate to that but actually I think our Conservatives are more conserve = hold on to power whatever the cost.

Yes, and remember, I am an old timer and can remember when being a conservative was equal to being a conservationist.  Keep out of other people's business.  Don't be offensive but have a strong defense.  Don't waste money on things that do not improve conditions for all Americans.

 

Our Republicans no long hold to any of these concepts.  Our Republicans have lost it.  And our Democrats never found it in the first place.  We Americans have no choice either.

[zerostao]

"all Americans"?  this is a Britt thread, lets make things better for britts, 

maybe they could be a state or sth? doesnt look like they really wanna cozy up to europe.

 

"Don't waste money on things that do not improve conditions for all Americans."  there really was a time like that? cmon man

your not that old to know a time like that. if there ever was

 

i like this idea of two empires combining, its an uncertain world out there. we would have 54 states?

the queen seems like a sweet lady, she has made trips to kentucky and not gone to washington, she likes horses i think.

england, scotland,  north ireland, wales? not sure why south ireland isnt included, hmmm, anyways,

if americans and united kingdomers could freely travel back and forth between countries without passports,

that would be rad af, right?! we almost speak a similar language even, britts dont know how to use quotation marks properly , i heard, but even so, that is a minor thing in the big scheme

and on the dl, we americans had a history of dealing with tories, until ronnie and maggie hooked up, damn

anyways britt bums, think abt it, we have lovely little hamlets here like detroit, baltimore, 

i havnt had my morning coffee yet...

 

[Marblehead]

this is a Britt thread, lets make things better for britts, 

I can't make things better for the Brits.  The only one person I can directly effect is myself.  "Every man for himself!"  Of course, let's not forget "Women and children first."

 

Yes, that song by the Kinks is in my collection.

 

Well, the Brits did sink the Bismark so we know they are capable of big things.

 

And they have a queen too! 

 

What more could they ask for?

[Marblehead]

"Don't waste money on things that do not improve conditions for all Americans."  there really was a time like that? cmon man

your not that old to know a time like that. if there ever was

But Zero, there really were times like that.  I experienced the last half of the 1940s and early 1950s.  And there were even better times in America before that.  The years after WWI and before the Great Depression.

[Marblehead]

 

if americans and united kingdomers could freely travel back and forth between countries without passports,

I have never had a passport but have travelled around the world twice.  All I ever needed was my military ID card.

 

I did have a hard time getting back into the USA after my second vacation down into interior Mexico.  Funny.  They stop and fuck with Americans but allow undocumented Central and South Americans in without question.

[Marblehead]

i havnt had my morning coffee yet...

Yeah, have yourself a coffee and relax.  We will never again see the days of my early youth.

 

Actually, we should be closer the the French than we are with the Brits because it were the French who helped us kick the Brits out of what is now the USA.

 

I guess the English here back then still hated the French too much.

 

Hey, they even kicked the French out of Eastern Canada.  They ended up in Louisiana.

[Apech]

Yeah, have yourself a coffee and relax.  We will never again see the days of my early youth.

 

Actually, we should be closer the the French than we are with the Brits because it were the French who helped us kick the Brits out of what is now the USA.

 

I guess the English here back then still hated the French too much.

 

Hey, they even kicked the French out of Eastern Canada.  They ended up in Louisiana.

 

Hang on ... you helped us kick the French out first.  I think Washington was a general in the Seven Years War ... not sure what you guys call that war.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years%27_War

 

...I'm all for joining up as long as you realise you'll have to be a junior member of the United Kingdom

 

P.S. we don't just have the Queen we have an endless stream of Royal Babies ....

[Apech]

Also while I am on the subject we had this in 1215:

 

" NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right."

 

That's 561 years before the Declaration on Independence.

[Brian]

Hang on ... you helped us kick the French out first.  I think Washington was a general in the Seven Years War ... not sure what you guys call that war.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years%27_War

 

...I'm all for joining up as long as you realise you'll have to be a junior member of the United Kingdom

 

P.S. we don't just have the Queen we have an endless stream of Royal Babies ....

We usually call it The French and Indian War when talking about the North American theater but the Seven Years War when speaking of the European or global conflict. To be honest, though, most Americans couldn't tell you ANYTHING about it. Most don't even know it happened.

[Apech]

We usually call it The French and Indian War when talking about the North American theater but the Seven Years War when speaking of the European or global conflict. To be honest, though, most Americans couldn't tell you ANYTHING about it. Most don't even know it happened.

 

 

I'm not sure many Brits know much about it even though it was the most significant conflict leading up to the Brit Empire and so on.  A stunning victory against the French who still then the super power of Europe and a step towards the English language becoming the lingua franca which it is today.  A murky conflict in Europe though, it was in the US and India the real action happened.

 

BTW have you rejoined the conversation Brian ... I thought maybe you were too busy stocking up the bunker with semi automatics and canned beans.

[Brian]

I'm not sure many Brits know much about it even though it was the most significant conflict leading up to the Brit Empire and so on.  A stunning victory against the French who still then the super power of Europe and a step towards the English language becoming the lingua franca which it is today.  A murky conflict in Europe though, it was in the US and India the real action happened.

 

BTW have you rejoined the conversation Brian ... I thought maybe you were too busy stocking up the bunker with semi automatics and canned beans.

You interpret me incorrectly, Apech. You consistently seem to think my reluctance to whole-heartedly embrace neofeudalistic global statism makes me a nutter. The truth is that I have a complete life separate from The Dao Bums and I actually find myself spending less and less time here. This weekend, for instance, I spent Friday evening and Saturday afternoon at a most excellent local festival which draws people from around the world (it is called LEAF and we attend twice a year) and Sunday celebrating Mother's Day. I would probably spend even less time here (and more time practicing my qigong) if not for my role as a Moderator -- you know, being "The Man" and oppressing all the commoners and working class folk here. That's what we knuckle-dragging troglodytic bigots call "recreation," right?

 

My point in posting in this thread in the first place was merely to point out that folks in the UK are likely to see little difference under the new regime other than a shift in posturing and an increase in self-righteous and self-congratulatory public protestation because the establishment plays the parties against each other without any sincere intent in following through on any stated intentions to do anything substantial other than grow the increasingly pervasive governmental organism. I responded to your apparently insincere expression of interest in what I had to say in my PPF (because it is out of context in a thread about who I would vote for in elections which have already occurred and in a country of which I am not a citizen). I wandered back into this thread again to see what new direction it might have taken but see it has been quite predicable. I did see, however, a point where I might provide insight or clarity related to a point of history, in response for which I was disparaged.

 

I won't bother to return.