Where do jobs come from?

[Aetherous]

This is a split off of the Baltimore topic, and is not at all addressing it...this topic is only a meditation on how jobs come to be...

For one, there is the obvious way: some company exists which needs help and lets you know that they're hiring. Like the local grocery store needing stockers.
 

But lets say that you live in an area where basically every job is taken, where no companies want to establish themselves. There seem to be no jobs and lots of people are living in poverty.

What is the solution in that area? Is the government for instance actually able to swoop in and create jobs there? How would those jobs be created? How does one create a job that pays money, out of nothing? Is there actually a service being provided, that people will continue to pay for, or is it just a way to say that someone got hired somewhere?

I'm truly wondering how the government would be capable of just making jobs appear, unless they are government jobs that open up by expanding various departments.

 

...another option for where jobs come from: entrepreneurs. Individual citizens identify the needs of a part of society, and fulfill those needs. For instance, doctors exist because people get sick and want someone to solve that problem. There is a need. There is even a human need for entertainment, and it can become very lucrative (for instance, look at the money involved in the NFL).

A tricky aspect is...once you've found a really brilliant idea for a new business, how are you going to get customers if mostly everyone in your area is poor? The nice thing about our world right now is that we're globally connected, and lots of small businesses can sprout up online, rather than relying on locals. But not all small businesses are capable of that...for instance if you have a solution to a problem that only applies to your local community.

Anyway, it's like the saying, "money doesn't grow on trees". It comes from somewhere...lets think about where that is. It's easy to say that money comes from jobs that you work. But then where do jobs come from? Do they come from the government? If so, then the government can take them from your community as well, or simply not hand them out to your community...and you end up living your life on your knees. It's easy to say that, at the root, jobs come from identifying solutions to problems that exist and building businesses based off of that...but then where do customers with money come from? It's not easy to build something from the ground up.

Yet, others have done it.

[gendao]

What is the solution in that area? Is the government for instance actually able to swoop in and create jobs there? How would those jobs be created? How does one create a job that pays money, out of nothing? Is there actually a service being provided, that people will continue to pay for, or is it just a way to say that someone got hired somewhere?

I'm truly wondering how the government would be capable of just making jobs appear, unless they are government jobs that open up by expanding various departments.

Good question. Well,

it is today - for one example.

BTW, although Detroit spends $11,100 per student vs the national average of only $9600, only 25% of them even graduate! So ironically, more money is not always the solution to the underlying causes of poverty.

 

Can someone explain what happened here and why? How can a community receiving soooo many huge monetary handouts...turn into a burnt-out 3rd world poverty zone?

 

Because again, you must find the actual bottlenecks to find the best fixes possible.

Edited June 27, 2015 by gendao

[ralis]

I would suggest college courses in economics and sociology for starters. That is all I have to say on the matter.

[soaring crane]

I can tell you a one thing that's different here in Germany.

 

The public education system is structured in a way that, for the most part, acts like a conduit for the student's natural inclinations and it has three branches catering to those inclinations. Grades 1-4 are all the same, but starting at grade 5, kids enter either a more trade-oriented school system or more academic system. Then there's a middle system for kids that could go either way. Which branch a student enters is based on grades and teacher evaluations, plus the wish of the parents and the student. This goes to grade 10, which is the legal minimum for education here.

 

After that, kids from the academic or middle branch can continue on to college or university, if they have the grades for it. But all of the students can go to what I'll refer to as professional school, where they learn a trade. The list of trades is extremely long and generally limited to whatever industries are in the student's region. It could be virtually anything. The young men and ladies at the register in the supermarkets went to school for three years to learn the retailing business, for example. Lab technicians, house painters, truck drivers, administrative workers or all sorts, care workers, you name it, if it didn't require a university degree, the person doing that job went to school not only to learn the work itself but a lot of broad knowledge about the industry as a whole.

 

This kind of schooling is combined with a long internships at firms. Depending on their size, companies here are required to take part in the internship program. They have to provide x-number of training slots, and have to actively take part in the students' education. For example, one division of the company I work for produces industrial chillers. They typically have three to five new interns every year, the most popular trade now being Mechatronics. The teams of interns are integrated into the company. The rotate through the various departments, learn everything there is to know about this field, while concurrently attending school where they still get more of the general education, but focussed on the work life (they learn about labor law and safety, for example).

 

Once the internship is up (they have to pass certification testing for their field), they're not guaranteed a job at the company, but they're well-prepared to do that work competently at any firm in the country. This is as true for the sales clerk at the corner bakery as the graphic designers at the most prestigious marketing companies.

 

Of course there are mistakes made and abuses occur, but the overall effect of the system, which is part of the public education here, is a population better equipped to survive in the working world, and companies and small businesses staffed by qualified professionals at every level clearly have a better chance of surviving long-term. And that's one way jobs are created.

 

I've read that the German system is being tried in other countries, including the US, but I can't imagine for a minute that many American companies would agree to take part, and if forced to do so, would howl like stuck pigs about the socialism standing in the way of profits.

 

So you see, genado, it isn't the "socialism" that fails, it's the people behind the system. The crazy-uncle memes you posted only demonstrate that throwing money into a housing project with no long-term strategy for an industrial base are doomed to fail. But I could post equally biased and spiteful memes about US companies that abuse communities for short-term profits, leaving behind environmental and economic wastelands.

 

If the people running those companies had been schooled differently, brought up differently, they would have different, healthier perspectives and work harder at creating real prosperity. But they're a product of the system they were born into. We all are.

[Michael Sternbach]

In Switzerland there is talk about giving each citizen the equivalent of $ 2000 monthly as a basic support provided by the state. People who are not content with that amount would be free to seek additional income, of course. Many in this country think that the concept is feasible and argue that doing away with all different kinds of rents would allow the governments to shut down some of its departments and thus save a lot of money. I personally like the idea but I'm not sure if or when this concept would be accepted by the Swiss populace.

[Marblehead]

I can tell you a one thing that's different here in Germany.

 

The public education system is structured in a way that, for the most part, acts like a conduit for the student's natural inclinations and it has three branches catering to those inclinations. Grades 1-4 are all the same, but starting at grade 5, kids enter either a more trade-oriented school system or more academic system. Then there's a middle system for kids that could go either way. Which branch a student enters is based on grades and teacher evaluations, plus the wish of the parents and the student. This goes to grade 10, which is the legal minimum for education here.

That's the way it was when I was there in the early 1960s and I have wondered if the system was still operating that way.  And yes, this system is much better than the American system of education.  And BTW, Germany's 10 grades is about the same as America's grade 14 as far as the functionality of the student goes.

[Marblehead]

If the federal government (all forms of politics) would stay out of the economy life here in the USA would be much better off.

 

After all, government (British) interference in the economy (of the North American colonies) was the energy for the revolution.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Anyway, it's like the saying, "money doesn't grow on trees". It comes from somewhere...lets think about where that is."

-----

 

It is simply made up.

 

-----

"It's easy to say that money comes from jobs that you work. But then where do jobs come from?"

-----

 

From someone who wants someone else to do something.

 

-----

"...but then where do customers with money come from?"

-----

 

Well, McDonalds was able to finance the construction of its overseas restaurants by using US taxpayer money.

 

Of course, the taxpayers do not participate in any profits.

 

Also, however, it seems that a regular McDonalds "hamburger" would cost about $200 if all the government subsidies leading to it were to be removed.

 

-----

"There is even a human need for entertainment, and it can become very lucrative (for instance, look at the money involved in the NFL)."

-----

 

I'm not so sure that the NFL was created to satisfy "a human need for entertainment" so much as to shape human attitudes and interactions.

 

Plenty of money has been printed to do that, and there are always profiteers ready to go in and get some of it.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Nungali]

Jobs come from a vast cloud in space, whose extremes are 'I should really get on to that' and abstract computed numbers and percentages of jobs and unemployment figures that the government thinks they are going to effectively control the modern economic beast with. 

[gendao]

I can tell you a one thing that's different here in Germany.

 

The public education system is structured in a way that, for the most part, acts like a conduit for the student's natural inclinations and it has three branches catering to those inclinations.

And you probably have more than 2 main political parties too...

 

I think the early career triaging is fantastic and would be great if the US adopted it.  But, America is just very polarized and not that bright.

So you see, genado, it isn't the "socialism" that fails, it's the people behind the system.

I agree.  Socialism (and any form of collectivism) basically works as well as its lowest common denominator - which can completely vary per each society.

So, it works best in homogenous societies of ants (like Germany), less well in mixed societies of ants & grasshoppers and is a complete FAIL in homogeneous societies of grasshoppers (like Detroit, Baltimore, etc).

 

Grasshoppers will always want socialism though, because it allows them to leech off ants.  Note how many of them will demand wealth redistribution...but never labor redistribution, lol.  Whereas ants would generally only want it if it was with other ants, but no grasshoppers.

 

Basically, it's like when a clean roomy rooms with a messy one.  The clean roomy loses and the messy one gains because the clean one will end up cleaning the place up more just because they can't stand it themself.

Edited May 2, 2015 by gendao

[zanshin]

SC, what happens in Germany if someone wants to go back to school and completely change careers when 25+?

[Aetherous]

Not totally on topic, but I just came upon this wiki which is pretty interesting for beginning to comprehend different economic opinions out there, which seem to not make any sense...such as why the dollar being worth more is apparently considered a bad thing to economists...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

[Apech]

And you probably have more than 2 main political parties too...

 

I think the early career triaging is fantastic and would be great if the US adopted it.  But, America is just very polarized and not that bright.

I agree.  Socialism (and any form of collectivism) basically works as well as its lowest common denominator - which can completely vary per each society.

...

So, it works best in homogenous societies of ants (like Germany), less well in mixed societies of ants & grasshoppers and is a complete FAIL in homogeneous societies of grasshoppers (like Detroit, Baltimore, etc).

 

Grasshoppers will always want socialism though, because it allows them to leech off ants.  Note how many of them will demand wealth redistribution...but never labor redistribution, lol.  Whereas ants would generally only want it if it was with other ants, but no grasshoppers.

 

Basically, it's like when a clean roomy rooms with a messy one.  The clean roomy loses and the messy one gains because the clean one will end up cleaning the place up more just because they can't stand it themself.

 

This division of people is really just falling into the hands of propaganda.  The fact is that the economy rules and it is the economic conditions which determine how people live and how they behave.  In an area of economic decline/collapse people will vote out of self interest for more left wing parties while where there is a reasonable prosperity, in order to protect what they already have people will be more conservative.  So you get administrations in these areas which reflect these economic conditions.

 

People will work hard where there is opportunity and less hard where there seem less rewards for doing so.

 

To blame the local people for the decline of places like Detroit is ridiculous when you know that the local industry collapsed ... blame the industrialists instead.  

[soaring crane]

SC, what happens in Germany if someone wants to go back to school and completely change careers when 25+?

 

They get what is called an "Umschulung" - translates to occupational retraining. A typical Umschulung involves two years of full-time schooling. I think there has to be a better reason for it than simply wanting to try a new career, though. If demand for your profession is dying out, which has happened a lot lately due to the digitized world - who needs professional image scanners today? - or if your health is suffering from your job - hair stylists who develop allergies to the chemicals, for example - you can easily qualify for an Umschuling. But I'm pretty sure it's a one-time deal.

 

I actually went to school, paid for by the labor department, for two years to learn "Mediengestalter" (Media Designer), after living here three years and being married to a German woman. I was given that opportunity because my American job training wasn't recognized here. However, when I finished school, it turned out that the market was absolutely flooded with Mediengestalter, there were far too many of us, and too few jobs available. So I complained and actually got 70% of Qigong teacher's certificate course paid out by the labor department.

 

Should note that as far as actually working in a particular job, there are no restrictions. An employer can hire whoever s/he wants for any position. You aren't strictly bound to what you learned.

[dawei]

They get what is called an "Umschulung" - 

 

Fascinating...

 

But what of the 'lost boys'...  those in every civilization which just don't want to do anything.

 

How are they steered?  Is it family or school pressure or the system at large to 'become something' ?

[CloudHands]

Good question. Well,

it is today - for one example.

BTW, although Detroit spends $11,100 per student vs the national average of only $9600, only 25% of them even graduate! So ironically, more money is not always the solution to the underlying causes of poverty.

 

Can someone explain what happened here and why? How can a community receiving soooo many huge monetary handouts...turned into a burnt-out 3rd world poverty zone?

 

Because again, you must find the actual bottlenecks to find the best fixes possible.

 

I like the way you back to the basic Aetherous.

 

 

One thing shocked me 11,100 vs 9,600$, do you think that these (only) 500$ (a year ?) you call soooo big money make such a difference ?

If you got 30 students in a classroom and  25 of them live in an universe of domestic violence, street crime and drug do you think a teacher can handle them to teach them things that are completely out of their world ? And on the very same time they are confronted to what is considered as success and how they should be what they should have to be on the winner side, constantly.

 

We talk youngsters that don't know what's living, breathing, loving is. 500$ is a fucking joke.

 

I think employment is already something of the past since we need always less people to manufacture things since they are replaced by machines. The future is either Art (what I call Art is work you can grow in) or Destruction. The reason why is not so obvious is the sterile world economic competition we live in where we complain about the loss of jobs taken by people living modern slavery.

 

I think humanity doesn't need more, it does need less... but with a better distribution. The reason rules are, are to protect the weaks. The weak is the victim. And the unsatisfied victim become the criminal, thief, dealer or for the weaker simply looser.

Some may call that solve a problem. I don't. I call that a nicely cheated game.

 

What I talk about may be far away, who I am to tell how things should be... ? Nonetheless I think it's only the way.

 

Just a little reminder in middle age Europe people had a lot of free time, they did not work sunday and there was plenty of holy days (estimated between 80 and 160 according to the work they do).

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_History_of_the_United_States

 

EDIT : awful post edited because I didn't find the last link

Edited May 21, 2015 by CloudHands

[CloudHands]

To honor the OP date.

 

http://www.iww.org/history/library/misc/origins_of_mayday

[GrandmasterP]

This is a split off of the Baltimore topic, and is not at all addressing it...this topic is only a meditation on how jobs come to be...

For one, there is the obvious way: some company exists which needs help and lets you know that they're hiring. Like the local grocery store needing stockers.

 

But lets say that you live in an area where basically every job is taken, where no companies want to establish themselves. There seem to be no jobs and lots of people are living in poverty.

 

What is the solution in that area? Is the government for instance actually able to swoop in and create jobs there? How would those jobs be created? How does one create a job that pays money, out of nothing? Is there actually a service being provided, that people will continue to pay for, or is it just a way to say that someone got hired somewhere?

I'm truly wondering how the government would be capable of just making jobs appear, unless they are government jobs that open up by expanding various departments.

 

...another option for where jobs come from: entrepreneurs. Individual citizens identify the needs of a part of society, and fulfill those needs. For instance, doctors exist because people get sick and want someone to solve that problem. There is a need. There is even a human need for entertainment, and it can become very lucrative (for instance, look at the money involved in the NFL).

A tricky aspect is...once you've found a really brilliant idea for a new business, how are you going to get customers if mostly everyone in your area is poor? The nice thing about our world right now is that we're globally connected, and lots of small businesses can sprout up online, rather than relying on locals. But not all small businesses are capable of that...for instance if you have a solution to a problem that only applies to your local community.

Anyway, it's like the saying, "money doesn't grow on trees". It comes from somewhere...lets think about where that is. It's easy to say that money comes from jobs that you work. But then where do jobs come from? Do they come from the government? If so, then the government can take them from your community as well, or simply not hand them out to your community...and you end up living your life on your knees. It's easy to say that, at the root, jobs come from identifying solutions to problems that exist and building businesses based off of that...but then where do customers with money come from? It's not easy to build something from the ground up.

Yet, others have done it.

 

There's always somebody who wants something doing. We moved to this small seaside hamlet last October when I retired. Come January I was bored off my bits doing nothing all day. So I started up a little window cleaning business and advertised it in the Parish Magazine that goes out free to most homes here. Now I'm busy via that advert plus customer recommendation. There's plenty of work out there if you go and look for it.

[gendao]

One thing shocked me 11,100 vs 9,600$, do you think that these (only) 500$ (a year ?) you call soooo big money make such a difference ?

If you got 30 students in a classroom and  25 of them live in an universe of domestic violence, street crime and drug do you think a teacher can handle them to teach them things that are completely out of their world ? And on the very same time they are confronted to what is considered as success and how they should be what they should have to be on the winner side, constantly.

 

We talk youngsters that don't know what's living, breathing, loving is. 500$ is a fucking joke.

One thing that shocks me is anyone past 4th grade who somehow thinks that $11,100 - $9600 = $500 (and not $1400)??? If you can't even do the simplest math, then how can you fully comprehend more complex social issues?

 

Although I certainly agree that neither $500 nor $1400 can compensate for the lack of good parents and lifestyle choices, etc...which all starts and ends in the home.  Money (or lack thereof) is merely a symptom of deeper behavioral problems, not the primary cause (which is why it can't fix them).  Another point I made here.

Edited May 20, 2015 by gendao

[CloudHands]

One thing that shocks me is anyone past 4th grade who somehow thinks that $11,000 - $9600 = $500 (and not $1400)??? If you can't even do the simplest math, then how can you fully comprehend more complex social issues?

 

Although I certainly agree that neither $500 nor $1400 can compensate for the lack of good parents and lifestyle choices, etc...which all starts and ends in the home.  Money (or lack thereof) is merely a symptom of deeper behavioral problems, not the primary cause (which is why it can't fix them).  Another point I made here.

 

Strictly technically for me 11,000-9600 = -9589 (but I suppose it's cultural we don't use the same markers).

 

That's perfect your rhetorical argument shows that I have to shut up because I'm incompetent. PERFECT

 

I know there's a link between daoism and liberalism, but it is if you forget the compassion. What I was talking about (and you illustrate it with magnificence) is that what you get from bullying someone (normaly) is only a blowback.

[gendao]

Strictly technically for me 11,000-9600 = -9589 (but I suppose it's cultural we don't use the same markers).

So instead of simply admitting you were completely WRONG, you shifted the goalposts to save face?

And then attempt to shame and guilt-trip me for merely correcting and holding you accountable?

 

Which I guess was still easier than admitting that your entire outraged argument was...based off your own bad math error.  Or would you have been just as indignant at underachieving Detroit students getting $1400 more per year than average?  If so, then what would be sufficient?  $20,000 and new cars?

 

But let me guess - you are a Baby Boomer?

[CloudHands]

So instead of simply admitting you were completely WRONG, you shifted the goalposts to save face?

 

And then attempt to shame and guilt-trip me for merely correcting and holding you accountable?

 

Which I guess was still easier than admitting that your entire outraged argument was...based off your own bad math error.  Or would you have been just as indignant at underachieving Detroit students getting $1400 more per year than average?  If so, then what would be sufficient?  $20,000 and new cars?

 

But let me guess - you are a Baby Boomer?

 

It's worse than that I reread your post and I thought you were talking about schoolboys or secondary... I meant if you got 30 trouble makers in a schoolroom they'll learn nothing noway.

Let's take an example : If you have 5 of them on a special program they may become something else that losers or threats to the society. The cost will be 6 time the normal price but what is the cost of a life sentence ? And call me utopist but I think that it's actually not a matter of $.

 

Trouble is we leave in societies that include failure as crucial element and we integrate it as something normal. No social justice = no peace and that's just so fine for the leaders to maintain fear among the population. We are rich enough to be able to provide for everyone decent living conditions job or not job. Yeah I'm talking about a decent basic income.

 

 

The parallel with our discussion is that your goal seems to discredit me more than understand what I'm trying to do say. The same way society eliminate people that doesn't fit the tin.

[thelerner]

This is a split off of the Baltimore topic, and is not at all addressing it...this topic is only a meditation on how jobs come to be...

 

For one, there is the obvious way: some company exists which needs help and lets you know that they're hiring. Like the local grocery store needing stockers.

 

But lets say that you live in an area where basically every job is taken, where no companies want to establish themselves. There seem to be no jobs and lots of people are living in poverty.

 

What is the solution in that area?

My first thought was brave entrepreneurs.  But thats not really addressing the problem presented, ie bad neighborhood.

 

So, I'll say police.  Police as the solution.    I'm thinking in terms of New York, unemployment was high, there was sense it was spiraling downward and out of control.  A new mayor introduced a zero tolerance policy.  Heretofore nonviolent crimes like graffiti were somewhat ignored, would now be watched for and fully prosecuted.   It sounded draconian, but it worked.   New York turned around, losing the reputation as a dirty bankrupt crime capital of the U.S back to a world class city.

 

The theory of cleaning up the small stuff flows upward, makes the place better, cleaner.  Getting the gangs out, fighting corruption.  It brought back businesses, created openings for gentrification and with that came jobs, cafes, coffee houses, service businesses.  Money attracted money.  People need to feel safe.  All people so it should include community policing, more beat cops walking the streets knowing the neighborhood, decentralization. 

 

That kind of Zero Tolerance policy can work but its not a supposed to be long term.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/job?s=t
 

noun

1.

a piece of work, especially a specific task done as part of the routine of one's occupation or for an agreed price:

She gave him the job of mowing the lawn.

2.

a post of employment; full-time or part-time position:

She was seeking a job as an editor.

3.

anything a person is expected or obliged to do; duty; responsibility:

It is your job to be on time.

4.

an affair, matter, occurrence, or state of affairs:

to make the best of a bad job.

5.

the material, project, assignment, etc., being worked upon:

The housing project was a long and costly job.

6.

the process or requirements, details, etc., of working:

It was a tedious job.

7.

the execution or performance of a task:

She did a good job.






A job, simply put, comes from necessity (which ironically is rooted in desire).

If you wish to survive, you need air, food, shelter, and water.
This creates 4 jobs.
job one, is dead. DONT [censored] POLLUTE THE AIR WITH TOXIC CHEMICALS [censored]! YOU ALL FAILED THIS JOB JUST BY DRIVING A GOD DAMNED CAR!!! [censored]

job two is hunting, foraging, and potentially farming... which is a kind of mixed bag.

Job three is construction, which is a mixed bag of various micro-jobs including, but not limited to acquiring, mining, and/or harvesting resources and materials for the building project at hand.

Job four is also a kind of mixed bag similar to job 1:  dont pollute is the easy part, the hard part is filteration, which is actually easy if you let nature run its course.  but we havent. so we have created a lot of NON PAYING JOBS cleaning up our [censored] acts.



All i have to say is everyone had BETTER [censored] get your god [censored] [censored] acts together and stop contributing to the [censored] cancerous defiler of our planet known as Civilization!  You are all irresponsible [censored] [censoreds] every time you spend a cent, drive an inch, or use non solar electricity!!!!

[dust]

created openings for gentrification

 

Everyone loves gentrification