in this world one has to earn the right to know who they are

[MooNiNite]

Maybe the belief that you need to refine and improve yourself is exactly what is preventing you from recognising what you already are.

 

When one gets rid of the belief that they need to do anything in order to awaken, then they can certainly live true to themselves and facilitate awakening, however in some cases it may lead to no awakening at all. Sort of a coin toss with that method. 

 

Masters often dont tell their disciples of awakening so that they go into meditation with no expectations and without seeking or expecting. This is a good technique. sort of ignorance is bliss, but still works if they keep training consistently. 

 

Furthermore, if you truly believe what you are saying, then I wonder why enlightened beings are so rare when it comes to the crowds of people who have no idea about enlightenment or attainment/refinement. Some say that a 7th chakra individual is 1 in a thousand, maybe more rare. But you dont believe in that stuff huh. 

[Songtsan]

It will happen regardless. 'Suffering' is the spiritual fire, the payment, the 'earning' part. Whether we seek it or not, its going to happen. You can strive or not strive. Entropy has its own lessons.

[Jetsun]

When one gets rid of the belief that they need to do anything in order to awaken, then they can certainly live true to themselves and facilitate awakening, however in some cases it may lead to no awakening at all. Sort of a coin toss with that method. 

 

Masters often dont tell their disciples of awakening so that they go into meditation with no expectations and without seeking or expecting. This is a good technique. sort of ignorance is bliss, but still works if they keep training consistently. 

 

Furthermore, if you truly believe what you are saying, then I wonder why enlightened beings are so rare when it comes to the crowds of people who have no idea about enlightenment or attainment/refinement. Some say that a 7th chakra individual is 1 in a thousand, maybe more rare. But you dont believe in that stuff huh. 

 

There are all sorts of things that people can do to refine and improve themselves, energetically and psychically, yet they don't necessarily have anything to do with awakening or enlightenment, or they may happen as a natural consequence of awakening rather than as a means to get there, certainly I think it is worth questioning our deepest held assumptions about these things, then it may open more avenues which were closed before.

 

I do believe in an energetic component to awakening, which is something I am working with myself, yet I have heard of many accounts of people waking up to unity with God out of nowhere, having not done any spiritual practice in their lives, whereas some people practice all day every day and it doesn't happen to them. So personally I have seen enough to convince me that this awakening stuff doesn't obey the normal rules we have been conditioned to live by where we do something and get a guaranteed result. That which is free of the mind doesn't have to play by the minds linear rules. 

 

Why so few people recognise who they are is a question people have been trying to answer for thousands of years. Just like there are few people who randomly wake up, there are millions of monks and nuns and laymen practitioners through the years who practice their entire lives and don't wake up. Personally I think normal people aren't often randomly waking up because they do all they can to put it off, just like most practitioners, regular folks are always busy doing something even if it just watching they tv they are distracting themselves and not being still and will do all they can to defend their beliefs rather than question them. 

[MooNiNite]

There are all sorts of things that people can do to refine and improve themselves, energetically and psychically, yet they don't necessarily have anything to do with awakening or enlightenment, or they may happen as a natural consequence of awakening rather than as a means to get there, certainly I think it is worth questioning our deepest held assumptions about these things, then it may open more avenues which were closed before.

 

I do believe in an energetic component to awakening, which is something I am working with myself, yet I have heard of many accounts of people waking up to unity with God out of nowhere, having not done any spiritual practice in their lives, whereas some people practice all day every day and it doesn't happen to them. So personally I have seen enough to convince me that this awakening stuff doesn't obey the normal rules we have been conditioned to live by where we do something and get a guaranteed result. That which is free of the mind doesn't have to play by the minds linear rules. 

 

Why so few people recognise who they are is a question people have been trying to answer for thousands of years. Just like there are few people who randomly wake up, there are millions of monks and nuns and laymen practitioners through the years who practice their entire lives and don't wake up. Personally I think normal people aren't often randomly waking up because they do all they can to put it off, just like most practitioners, regular folks are always busy doing something even if it just watching they tv they are distracting themselves and not being still and will do all they can to defend their beliefs rather than question them. 

 

Energy practices can be very effective, or worthless. The question of how effective one's practice is has to do with silence.

Edited May 8, 2015 by MooNiNite

[Songtsan]

No such thing as silence, nothing ever still....

[Jetsun]

No such thing as silence, nothing ever still....

 

Everything perceptible is always changing, always moving, yet what that arises within/what is aware of the change is always silent and always still. If you can recognise that you are that silence then there is no longer any need to identify with all that changes.

 

Therefore if there is always something silent and always still in our direct experience then what need is there of developing silence and stillness through meditation and practices? just become aware of what already exists. Just stop and relax into what is, or like they say "Be still, and know that I am God".

 

But in reality nobody wants to relax into that silence and be that silence because it is shared, it isn't individual

[3bob]

silence is not a thing, and it is true that 'things' keep moving and also change,

 

but "that" which is moving so fast (so to speak) that it is standing still, silent and synchronized everywhere at once is not a thing, thus things can never catch up to or enter into it, not unlike the saying and meaning of, "only Nothing can enter into no-space.  (from T.T.C. 43)

Edited May 4, 2015 by 3bob

[Songtsan]

Stillness and movement may be relative. Like saying that there is black and white. No absolutes exist absolutely. I don't know, I am not convinced yet. Can awareness ever be uncoupled from its objects entirely? Is that the realm of neither perception nor non-perception? I imagine I must experience it, but if there is an experiencer then there is still movement...I think I must get beyond mind to know, so it will be a while...one day!

[3bob]

"Mystery" does exist absolutely, (as alluded to in the last line of T.T.C. chapter 1) 

[noonespecial]

Reading through this thread the following allegory comes to mind:

 

A man from the country seeks the law and wishes to gain entry to the law through an open doorway, but the doorkeeper tells the man that he cannot go through at the present time. The man asks if he can ever go through, and the doorkeeper says that it is possible but "not just yet" ("jetzt aber nicht"). The man waits by the door for years, bribing the doorkeeper with everything he has. The doorkeeper accepts the bribes, but tells the man that he accepts them "so that you do not think you have failed to do anything." The man does not attempt to murder or hurt the doorkeeper to gain the law, but waits at the door until he is about to die. Right before his death, he asks the doorkeeper why even though everyone seeks the law, no one else has come in all the years. The doorkeeper answers "No one else could ever be admitted here, since this gate was made only for you. I am now going to shut it."

 

before the law by kafka

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Before_the_Law

[MooNiNite]

great post, but Im sorry, i should know this. But what is the law? that is being referred to? Seeking the law? is that like seeking understanding?

[noonespecial]

 is that like seeking understanding?

 

I don't know, is it?

[MooNiNite]

I don't know, is it?

 

Maybe it is like seeking answers. The law would be that which is solidified or certain. 

[noonespecial]

The law would be that which is solidified or certain. 

 

I don't think it has to be, but it could be.

[Marblehead]

I just looked at the thread title again.

 

It reads:

 

in this world one has to earn the right to know who they are

 

I think it would be more valid if it read:

 

in this world one has to earn the ability to know who they are

[3bob]

(and learning of a better way often comes after going through the school of hard knocks)

[Songtsan]

@3Bob...(can't use quote function on this tablet) God does not know mystery, he/she/it is omniscient... We 'Godlets' have chosen to cut ourselves off from source to have the fun of the mystery. I believe we go back to source when we die...

[MooNiNite]

 

I just looked at the thread title again.

 

It reads:

 

in this world one has to earn the right to know who they are

 

I think it would be more valid if it read:

 

in this world one has to earn the ability to know who they are

 

U dont believe it is a gift of heaven? Some say that in order to go through the worm-hole, the other side has to reach out as well..

 

Like working with the universe. 

[MooNiNite]

I don't think it has to be, but it could be.

 

A law is something solidified. That which directs chaos. 

 

I guess USA laws are very ambiguous though.. so idk. 

Edited May 5, 2015 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

@3Bob...(can't use quote function on this tablet) God does not know mystery, he/she/it is omniscient... We 'Godlets' have chosen to cut ourselves off from source to have the fun of the mystery. I believe we go back to source when we die...

 

i think something different happens if one is able to become one with the universe. 

 

A master told me that when people die they go through processes to gain a new body, However, the universe itself is also a body, so those who become one are able to utilize the universal body. 

[3bob]

@3Bob...(can't use quote function on this tablet) God does not know mystery, he/she/it is omniscient... We 'Godlets' have chosen to cut ourselves off from source to have the fun of the mystery. I believe we go back to source when we die...

 

death as it is normally meant is not required for Mystery to know Mystery

[3bob]

U dont believe it is a gift of heaven? Some say that in order to go through the worm-hole, the other side has to reach out as well..

 

Like working with the universe. 

 

that is correct, the "other side" (so to speak) has to also reach out, for our little will does not dictate to the ways of larger will.

[Marblehead]

U dont believe it is a gift of heaven? Some say that in order to go through the worm-hole, the other side has to reach out as well..

 

Like working with the universe. 

But I don't want to go through the worm hole.  I'm fine right her where I am.  A gift of Heaven?  No.  A gift of circumstance.  We don't get to choose where and when we are born.

[Marblehead]

A law is something solidified. That which directs chaos. 

 

I guess USA laws are very ambiguous though.. so idk. 

All laws are ambiguous.

[Marblehead]

death as it is normally meant is not required for Mystery to know Mystery

Death is the end.  The beginning of a totally new beginning.  No mystery to it.  Happens every day.