Taoist diet discussion

[flowconduit]

IF YOU KNOW ANY TAOIST DIETARY PRACTICES PLEASE SHARE THEM HERE

 

So far I've tried many different diets, I'll list some 

 

- GOMAD (gallon of milk a day)

Comments: I do not recommed anyone to try this diet, I tried it during my gym years when i tried to put on as much mass as possible. This diet caused me to have gynecomastia which had to be surgically removed

 

- No carbohydrates diet

 

- Bodybuilding diet 30% protein / 40% carbohydrates / 30% fats 

 

- Lacto-ovo vegetarian

 

- Pescetarian diet

 

- Vegan

 

None of these diets really gave me the kind of energy that I had when I was a kid.

 

Sometime ago I read about this taoist diet called Ch'ang Ming diet which bans some foods & all eating after 7pm. This is the diet that I'm practicing currently but I don't eat any meats, I really like the idea of eating domestic seasonal vegetables.

 

 

Increase your consumption of these foods :

• Whole grain foods: Wholemeal bread, Brown rice, Barley, Oats, Buckwheat, Rye, Maize, Millet, Quinoa, anything made with Wholegrain flour: Pasta and Noodles; Biscuits; Cakes; Shredded Wheat; Muesli etc.
• Fresh locally grown vegetables in season, organic if possible, steamed or stir-fried is best, or frozen vegetables.
• 
  
• Vegetarian food such as: Beans; Nuts and Seeds (roasted); Soya Bean curd (Tofu); Vegetarian mince, etc.
• 
  
• Free range white meat such as Chicken or Turkey; eggs; non-fatty white fish or Seafood, Prawns.
• 
  
• Soya Milk, Rice Milk, Skimmed Milk, Soya Yoghurt, Low fat yoghurt, Low fat vegetarian cheese.
• 
  
• Seaweed: Nori; Kelp. Natural Soya sauce: Tamari or Shoyu. Vegetable cooking oils and fats, unhydrogenated.
• 
  
• Fruit which is local and seasonal preferably cooked or dried: Dates, Sultanas, Raisins, Figs, Apple, Strawberries.
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• Sea salt only, in strict moderation, or Gomasio - sesame seeds and sea salt as a condiment.
• 
  
• Herbs, herbal teas and coffees, Caro, Barleycup, China Tea: Green or Black.
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• Honey, in moderation, unrefined sugar only if you must.
• 
  

Reduce your intake of these:

• White bread, White flour, White rice, Refined or Processed, Tinned and Packet foods
• Chemical additives, Colourings, Preservatives, Flavourings, Fruit acids, (remember to read the label).
• 
  
• Red meat: Beef, Pork, Veal, Lamb, Bacon, Sausages, Meat products or extracts.
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• Red or blue fish - Tuna, Salmon, Mackerel, Swordfish, scavengers such as Crab.
• 
  
• Poultry or fish that is high in fat - Duck, Goose, Haddock.
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• Boiled, fried or poached eggs. Scrambled or in omelettes is better, or in baking.
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• Dairy products - Full fat milk, Cheese, Butter, Lard, Dripping, animal fat products.
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• Alcohol, Tobacco, Coffee, Sugar, Sweets, Chocolate, Drugs, Artificial vitamins, supplements etc.
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• Spices, Pepper, Mustard, Curry, Vinegar, Pickles, Rock Salt.
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• Nightshades: Potato, Tomato, Aubergine.
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• Rhubarb, Spinach (high in Oxalic acid)
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• Ice cold food and drink especially Ice Cream, Cream, Carbonated drinks etc, Raw and uncooked food .
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• Fresh fruit which is out of season or imported from a different climate, Tropical fruit drinks.
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• Deep fried food. Grilled, Braised, Roasted or Stir fried food is better.
• 
  

Always remember -

• Buy fresh, organic, locally grown, seasonal whole foods whenever possible.
• Avoid cold food and cold drinks. Cold baths, showers or swimming in cold water.
• 
  
• Reduce your fluid intake as much as possible, avoid drinking before a meal.
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• These basic guidelines are only to be followed in consultation with your teacher.
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• If you have a health problem consult your doctor before changing your diet.
• 
  

Edited May 5, 2015 by flowconduit

[flowconduit]

Foods good for jing generation:

 

- hemp seeds (they have GLA which is rare in nutrition and lost in ejaculation)

- egg yolks (cholesterol)

- Spirulina (GLA)

- Bee pollen (lecithin)

 

Post if you know more and I'll add them to this list.

[blue eyed snake]

I'm very surprised about reducing fluid intake.

i wouldnt do that,

i drink water and tea ( herbinfusions) and imho the body needs that to be able to get rid of wasteproducts. 

[flowconduit]

I'm very surprised about reducing fluid intake.

i wouldnt do that,

i drink water and tea ( herbinfusions) and imho the body needs that to be able to get rid of wasteproducts. 

I think the idea is that drinking too much bloats the kidneys and then they can't properly filter waste

[SaiyaMan]

The body needs water, especially if you're doing any form of cultivation.
 

SonOfTheGods:

 

Keep your Electrolyte intake boosted during those times too

Electrolytes= electrical conductors which you burn out during intense cultivation 

Source: http://lonemanpai.com/thread/258/eclipse-supermoon-spring-equinox-friday

 

Just incase you haven't heard of them, Intermittent Fasting and the "Eat-Stop-Eat" fasting methods are great.

 

You'll find this thread very valuable: http://lonemanpai.com/thread/353/loneman-pai-diet


 

[flowconduit]

Drinking normal water actually dilutes your electrolyte levels!

 

About a week ago I bought 20 liters of coconut water which is so close to blood plasma that you can inject it if you want to.

 

About fasting; I read a study that revealed that fasting 24 hours increased growth hormone levels by 2000%, the spike occurs exactly at 24 hours then the levels decrease. I'm planning on starting to fast 24 hours a week

 

Thx for the link !

 

 

So if your kidneys are normal, you can drink six cups of water a day and you will break even. But if you drink more than what your kidneys can handle―and remember: for most people the limit is six cups a day―this water will remain in your body. It will travel back into the blood stream to be eliminated through the skin by perspiration. However, if you have few opportunities to perspire (cold weather, no exercise, etc.), the water will be retained in your skin. As more and more waste water comes to the area of your skin where water is already being retained, the tissue in that area bloats up to receive the incoming water. This “stagnant” water remains, retaining even more wastes and associated toxins. This accumulated waste water―considered as urine―may stay in this area for a day, a month, even a year or more. After a period of time, this water becomes mucous. [if you wish to see externally what is hidden internally within the body try the following experiment: fill a glass with water and leave it undisturbed; if the water evaporates refill it; repeat this process until a green, slimy build-up appears; and you have recreated for all to see the mucous that is within the body. If this could happen with “clean” water, one could only imagine what kind of odious mucous is formed from wastes from bodily, cellullar processes. And if this makes you mentally sick just from looking, it can make you even sicker physically because it has real, poisonous effects. For a complete explanation please refer to Tao of Forgotten Food Diet: Taoist Herbology, Water Dis-eases.] This mucous is still waste water, only it is in a more solid form. You may think you have added fat, but it is simply mucous which is stuck between the tissues. When this gelatinous substance hardens sufficiently, we call it cellulite. Animal fats such as butter and lard are particular components of cellulite formation.You will not get rid of cellulite by exercise or perspiration alone―only “fresh” water is eliminated by perspiration.

 

EDIT: No access to the board, can you paste what the link says about diet?

Edited May 5, 2015 by flowconduit

[vonkrankenhaus]

"Diet" is the most primary interaction we are having with our larger selves, which is the overall environment we have arisen from and are dissolving back into. This environment spans from the center of the Earth to the farthest reaches of the infinite cosmos, and ranges from metal to cosmic vibrations. All of this range we are making into ourselves by eating and living.

 

There is not one cell in our body not made of food.

 

Modern nutritional theory looks mainly at physical.

 

Ancient way of eating looks mainly at spirit, because physical is all happening within spirit.

 

So the modern science way would say "vitamin C" from a carrot is the same as "vitamin C" from a tomato.

 

Old way would say that carrot root is expression of downward and contracting energy, and tomato is a fruit growing on a vine, and the energy from these and the effect from eating will be different. Old way is saying that we are absorbing the energy that formed whichever one we eat, and this energy is influencing us when forming similar structures of our body.

 

I have been studying this for long time in relation to spiritual cultivation - which I like to call "ordinary life", because that is where life is heading all the time we are living it and beyond. Our conception was the apex of our physicalization, and all growth after that could be called "spiritualization" and is a returning to where we came from. In essence, this mean that things like The Secret of the Golden Flower are really showing the ordinary flow of life, but have become "exercises" in the more recent era as we have lost this normal human living in favor of domestication and civilization which arose after the last ice age.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Rara]

 

So the modern science way would say "vitamin C" from a carrot is the same as "vitamin C" from a tomato.

 

Old way would say that carrot root is expression of downward and contracting energy, and tomato is a fruit growing on a vine, and the energy from these and the effect from eating will be different. Old way is saying that we are absorbing the energy that formed whichever one we eat, and this energy is influencing us when forming similar structures of our body.

 

Fascinating observation. Although, I am no expert and am only going to hazard a guess as to what this means in practical terms...

 

My take on this then is that, despite both containing vitamin C, they will still create different qualities within the body. So, the tomato would provide more vitality/awakening energy? So tomatoes during the day, carrots at night perhaps?

[vonkrankenhaus]

Human growth is experience of Jing/Qi/Shen, and food (environment) is appearing as Shen/Chi/Jing - it is a mirror.

 

Food energetics is just like any study of energetics. Applying YinYang thinking (Dualistic Monism), we start with One (Monism) and divide, bifurcate (Dualism) and we see complimentary opposites.

 

Phyically, contraction and expansion are physical criteria we can use. Food is a temporary contraction of the environment,as are we.

 

Physically, the Earth has formed as contracted structure, and Heaven exhibits expansive structure. If we look at energetics and not structure, then Earth is energy contracted to the point of not moving much (Yin) and Heaven is extremely active (Yang) - this is "metaphysical" way.

 

YinYang thinking is discovering Change.

 

If we want to see change in more detail, we can use 8 Gua and also Lo Shou - 5 phases. Original way of Lo Shou is physical viewpoint of Human standing on top of Earth. 8 Gua was also physical orientation with Heaven above and Earth below - like the way food grows - then King Wen change to "metaphysical" orientation 8 Gua. Same concerns as in the above explaination of physical vs metaphysical way of looking.

 

Looking at carrot - carrot root is growing downward into Earth. Carrot top is growing upward from Earth. "Vitamin C" extracted from plant will have different energy if taken from the root from that taken from the green top - but science nutritionists do not see this yet. Vitamin C from root will have more contracting energy, and Vitamin C from the greens will have more expansive energy.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited June 5, 2015 by vonkrankenhaus

[Rara]

Human growth is experience of Jing/Qi/Shen, and food (environment) is appearing as Shen/Chi/Jing - it is a mirror.

 

Food energetics is just like any study of energetics. Applying YinYang thinking (Dualistic Monism), we start with One (Monism) and divide, bifurcate (Dualism) and we see complimentary opposites.

 

Phyically, contraction and expansion are physical criteria we can use. Food is a temporary contraction of the environment,as are we.

 

Physically, the Earth has formed as contracted structure, and Heaven exhibits expansive structure. If we look at energetics and not structure, then Earth is energy contracted to the point of not moving much (Yin) and Heaven is extremely active (Yang) - this is "metaphysical" way.

 

YinYang thinking is discovering Change.

 

If we want to see change in more detail, we can use 8 Gua and also Lo Shou - 5 phases. Original way of Lo Shou is physical viewpoint of Human standing on top of Earth. 8 Gua was also physical orientation with Heaven above and Earth below - like the way food grows - then King Wen change to "metaphysical" orientation 8 Gua. Same concerns as in the above explaination of physical vs metaphysical way of looking.

 

Looking at carrot - carrot root is growing downward into Earth. Carrot top is growing upward from Earth. "Vitamin C" extracted from plant will have different energy if taken from the root from that taken from the green top - but science nutritionists do not see this yet. Vitamin C from root will have more contracting energy, and Vitamin C from the greens will have more expansive energy.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Are carrot greens actually edible?

 

How, then, would eating the upward orientated part (greens) affect us physically in comparison to eating the usual root (orange) carrot?

Edited June 7, 2015 by Rara

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"Are carrot greens actually edible?"

-----

 

Yes.

-----
"How, then, would eating the upward orientated part (greens) affect us physically in comparison to eating the usual root (orange) carrot?"

-----

 

Normal way to eat this is to eat both, but the commercialization ideas about food have created "products" out of various parts of some plants - so today "carrot" means to consumers only the root.

 

To actually examine carrot plant, I will use both physical and metaphysical ("energetic") way of applying YinYang thinking.

 

Heaven's force is pushing downward on Earth = Yang.
Earth's force is pushing outward ("up") from Earth = Yin.

 

So root is exhibiting more contraction, and leaves are exhibiting more expansion.

 

Carrot greens are not as expansive as collard greens.
Carrot root is not as contracting as burdock root.

 

Looking at 5 phases, roots are generally associated with Metal, and big summer greens = Fire.

 

Carrot greens are, among all greens, contracted and associated also with Metal.

 

Roots are generally Metal association. Among roots, orange carrot root associated with Soil, white carrot root associated with Metal, etc.

 

So orange carrot (and greens) is nourishing to lungs (Metal) and also spleen/pancreas/stomach (Soil).

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Rara]

 

So orange carrot (and greens) is nourishing to lungs (Metal) and also spleen/pancreas/stomach (Soil).

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Thank you. What then, does an orange nourish?

 

(Apologies for the late response, I have been very busy over the past week)

Edited June 12, 2015 by Rara

[thelerner]

Taoist diet seem to be about keep it natural, keep it seasonal and somewhat anti-grain. 

 

So, no processed food, eat with the season (not that you much choice for most of history) and traditionally grains were an evil worm kind of thing.  I think in modern times out of necessity, grains entered into some monasteries, but the oldest writings, I think, were against them.  

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"Taoist diet seem to be about keep it natural, keep it seasonal and somewhat anti-grain."

-----

 

Grains are generally the seeds of grasses.

 

Grasses evolved around 60 million years ago - a very modern sort of plant.

 

Grains are interesting because they are so contracted compared to other plants that their seed and fruit are the same structure.

 

Eating the seeds of wild grasses may have been the thing that caused apelike hominids which had been eating fruits to become human beings that walk upright and talk.

 

Grains have been known as "the food of humanity".

 

In more recent history, Taoist cultivators have been known to leave human society for the remote mountains, and also leave behind the food of humans to exist on the wild energetics of certain mountain plants and tree nuts.

 

This was not because they were "anti grain".

 

It is because they wish to attain something both before and beyond human life.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[thelerner]

I know grains.  Just saying some old Taoist traditions were anti-grain (Paleo before paleo was hip?).  Not saying they're right or wrong.  Just the way it was.  I was looking for the actual books it came from and stopped when I found this:

 

For example: from http://taoist-mind.blogspot.com/2012/08/what-is-taoist-diet-ezinearticles.html

 

'The Third Immortal King told the Emperor:
"You attain the Tao by avoiding all grains. You will never again have to follow the rhythm of the moon and plant or harvest.
"Now, the people of mysterious antiquity, they reached old age because they remained in leisure and never ate any grains."
As the Dayou zhang (Verse of Great Existence) says:
The five grains are chisels cutting life away,
Making the five organs stink and shorten our spans.
Once entered into our stomach,
There's no more chance to live quite long.
To strive for complete avoidance of all death
Keep your intestines free of excrement!"
While many ancient Taoists practiced abstention from grain, this is not absolutely true. There are many accounts of Taoists who ate, or who literally begged for rice.
It may be that grain abstention was more of a purification process, or a sort of fast, leading up to important rituals, ceremonies or rites, like taking long medications, fasting, taking elixirs, and so on.
Modern
In more recent times, the typical diet has radically changed to focus on being PRIMARILY grain based, rather than practicing a total abstention from grain. Although there are some radical people who claim to never eat, they are often ridiculed by the media and later found out to be "starving" for attention rather than being a true ancient style Taoist.
The modern Taoist diet essentially follows the basic yin-yang and 5 elements theory, and relies heavily upon un-processed whole grains, fresh vegetables (particularly root vegetables) and very little meat.'

Edited June 13, 2015 by thelerner

[vonkrankenhaus]

What is happening at this level of cultivation is that the practitioner is essentially transitioning to a "non-human" (non-"normal") state of spiritual development.

 

The foods eaten are high in plant resins - certain species of pine trees, for example, plus grass roots and select other wild mountain plants.

 

The effect over some time is something like a combination of mummification and what happens to tobacco shamans - the peripheral energy metabolism becomes very contracted and slow, while the outer body is increasingly imbued with plant resins. They are able to meditate and "trip in" for very extended periods, and the resins keep the metabolism low and keeps rot and insects away.

 

This is like stretching out the dying process from maybe a day or a week in most people to expand into what can be decades.

 

People who do this are able to examine the process of the development of the spirit body in great detail due to the slowing down of the process.

 

This has almost nothing to do with a discussion of "healthy diet", and it is a very specialized practice that few today will ever approach - but it is very interesting to research for people today.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[blue eyed snake]

about the eating of grain i think. When you eat grain ( or grainmade stuff like bread/pasta, but also potatoes) you get filled up quicly. Leaving no space for veggies, nuts and fruit.

 

Now that i've changed the way i  feed myself i've become pretty conscious of what i put in my body, when i eat too much grainlike stuff the consequence is that i do not eat enough veggies. And thereby missing needed vitamins and minerals ( and veggie energy   )

 

The combination of the diminished content of vitamins/minerals in vegetable food in general combined with the diminished uptake of these because of growing older. That makes the use of supplements needed...i plan to change my food to more veggies and less grains again... 

On the other hand, i did eat less grain then i do now, but i became too thin, so i've to see how it works out.

 

also, i think, the eating of grain as a substantial part of the human diet must have been together with the ending of the hunting-gathering folks...and i suspect that the villagers, needed less sensitivity than the nomadic tribes. maybe there is a correlation with the eating of grain too...?

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"also, i think, the eating of grain as a substantial part of the human diet must have been together with the ending of the hunting-gathering folks...and i suspect that the villagers, needed less sensitivity than the nomadic tribes. maybe there is a correlation with the eating of grain too...?"

-----

 

There is evidence that "gatherers" ate and prepared wild grass seeds ("grains") significantly before agriculture.

 

Our teeth show the evolution of human food habits, as they evolved in conjunction with and for our eating.

 

We see a miniature of this evolution when we have a baby human who will grow these teeth and eat different foods at various stages of growth. Modern people mess this up and thus do not see it so much, because they lost understanding of what people are and what food is, etc, and now just going on falsehoods and commercialized mistakes.

 

The teeth show that early humans first ate fruits, then more vegetables and tubers, then went through a period of eating animals (Ice Ages), then wild grass seeds (grains) most lately.

 

These periods lasted for varying length of time - some were possibly millions of years.

 

The development of artificial grain-based agriculture during and after the last ice age is a somewhat different thing than the switch made to more compacted plants that happened as part of general human evolution.

 

Combined with the subsequent rise of artificial "civilization", this more recent "agriculture" actually looks like a conscious effort to "domesticate" humanity.

 

In any event - grains have actually been a useful staple of human diet for many thousands of years. Our more recent (in millenia) dietary experience/evolution has been based on them.

 

The switch in the modern era to mainly industrial-scale animal foods and refined carbohydrates (and most recent, refined and synthetic chemicals) has been a degenerative health disaster of epic proportions by comparison.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited June 16, 2015 by vonkrankenhaus

[Orion]

One thing I've learned concretely in the past few months is that you can never outsmart the body. Its intelligence for what it needs will always be greater than your logical mind in trying to figure it out... which is why following bodily signals is more useful than coming up with hard-and-fast diet plans. The body is so dynamic and its requirements are always shifting. I don't believe anymore that micro-management makes you more healthy. It just increases tension.

 

There are obvious things we can do to help ourselves out. I just mean, there is no "miracle" diet.

 

And, if you want to have the same level of energy that you had as a child, it's called a time machine. Being a child under 10 is the closest to pure yangqi as you'll ever get in this lifetime. Once you reach adulthood it becomes a matter of managing a gradually declining yang.

[Aetherous]

And, if you want to have the same level of energy that you had as a child, it's called a time machine. Being a child under 10 is the closest to pure yangqi as you'll ever get in this lifetime. Once you reach adulthood it becomes a matter of managing a gradually declining yang.

 

What do you think of Huo Shen pai herbalism, or Hunyuan medicine, for this purpose?