max and the SF kunlun workshop

[Sahaj Nath]

i just got back home from the SF workshop.

 

 

it's about 11:50am, so the workshop is actually still going on. *hint*

 

 

 

i need to rest up for a little bit, do some writing, and catch up with my students.

 

 

then i will give my honest take of Max's skill and the methods and all that good stuff.

[Sahaj Nath]

okay,

 

i may as well get this over with...

 

 

i'm not writing this to make friends, so you're welcome to take issue with this if you like.

 

 

1.) he's NOT a lama

 

2.) he's NOT a taoist master

 

3.) he's not really a master at all!

 

4.) if he IS a master of something (anything), then i can only conclude that i surpassed the level of master a long time ago, and i really need to raise my prices!

 

 

 

i was actually shocked at how rank and superficial his knowledge base was. he will attract a number of new age people, as he IS one. HUGE leaps to our ancestries being from other planets and shit. reptilian races and shit. and, to be honest, i'm just crazy enough to go there if you can lay an effective groundwork. he offered none. only that we were a tight-knit group now that the "undesirables" had been weeded out the night before (someone leveled a challenge at him, and he blew much of his own credibility trying to respond/back-peddle), so he can now clue us in to his "crazy wisdom."

 

yeah, he really went there.

 

 

the short video clip on the front page of his website is about the extent of his depth.

 

for me to break down everything that was wrong with him and the seminar would take me hours, and i'm just not that committed. so i'm going to jump around a little bit:

 

 

he prefaces almost every questionable or unsupported statement with "my teachers taught me..." "my teachers said..." "my teachers would do..." and on and on and on. he leaned WAY too heavily on these inaccessible teachers for credibility. and keep in mind, he's all about following the teacher within.

 

lots of talk of clans and battles that seemed to go nowhere. other than maybe to entice you with being linked to this magnificent "lineage" so that his stories can now become your stories.

 

 

ridiculous contradictions, so many that i can't remember most of them. but it's okay. they're intentional. he's the coyote. the trickster.

 

you can eat whatever you want because energy is energy and the differences are illusion and kunlun activates the alchemical process so that he can even drink mercury without being affected.

 

BUT,

 

if you do kunlun you should probably eat meat on a regular basis because it will help to ground you.

 

 

i asked him at the free lecture if he could explain to me the distinction between magnetism and qi, as i had learned that the magnetism aspect is more yin and the electrical aspect is more yang. these are his exact words:

 

"well, in mao shan we're taught that when the yin and yang- electrical in the body- we call it... say you look at yoga. you have the sun & moon channels- what happens is, you have the yin & yang, you're breathing in and out. when those collapse from practicing, the outer breath disappears, the inner breath becomes apparent. the sushumna, the central channel becomes activated. in mao shan they say "the secret of the golden flower." and to practice, what you do is like this (makes a hand mudra). and the mao shan daoists they'll have a certain sound and visualization for each one. and they hold this posture- this is the first thing that they do. when you practice the secret of the golden flower this is what the mao shan [daoists] are practicing.

 

now, with this type of practice you might save 3-5 years if you did just the mao shan..."

 

this was his response to my question. WORD FOR WORD.

 

he said more, but it didn't get any better, and i don't feel like transcribing the rest of it.

 

i hope you get the idea.

 

 

after the lecture i introduced myself the chris (mantra) and told him that i wasn't sure my question was answered. he at least gave me a coherent response, but he didn't really know, so, of course, he asked his teacher to explain it. and again, max is all over the place EXCEPT where my question is leading. so chris sort of cut him off (respectfully) and reiterated what the question was. he didn't really have an answer. what it came down to was what he said above: that he sees the electrical energy as qi and the magnetic energy as... well... something else.

 

 

yeah. taoist master my ass.

 

 

are the techniques effective? yes. they can be. but moreso than any other system? no.

 

and cameron (though i'm sure he might be pissed at me for making this post) was correct about max's approach to teaching the red phoenix being irresponsible. it's a down-right dangerous practice unless you're NOT developed enough to really move the energy. and even then, it's a dubious practice.

 

 

so what happened with cameron? well, here's my opinion:

 

cameron was torn between which master he was going to see prior to attending the LA workshop. my guess is that had cameron saw the other guy and had the other guy given a direct transmission, cam probably would have experienced the same (or at least a very similar) awakening. cameron wasn't very far from opening those floodgates on his own. and i got the impression that max had never dealt with anyone who had openned up so radically before.

 

 

i can't help but feel like maybe chris "created" max. chris definitely the intelligent, man behind the scene (or behind the curtain) guy.

 

ALSO:

 

max claims that his "wisdom eye" is so developed that he's unable to drive because he sees too much. yet he was completely unaware of the energy i was flowing. a couple of people at the seminar and, later, one of his own assistants commented on it and wondered about my level. yet in our private session everything he shared with me was as if i were a novice. his transmission was hardly noticeable, though it doesn't take much to awake a soul that's ripe. he certainly knows a few tricks, but in my opinion he's no master.

 

they're running a business. a workshop business. and the quality and organization could use some serious work.

 

 

i have a LOT MORE to say, but i'm kinda tired of writing right now.

 

i welcome questions.

 

 

and just for the record:

 

i'm not trying to just tear this guy down. i payed $450 for the workshop and the private session. even after the horrible screw-ups in the free lecture on friday, i chose and even encouraged others who were put off to give it a shot anyway. it's just money. and maybe he doesn't have the knowledge, but if he has the abilities, it doesn't matter much.

 

i'm glad i went. i honestly don't care about the money that much. he has great charisma. unfortunately there's not much behind it.

 

 

the reason the movie trailer emphasizes all the wrong things is because there isn't much of real substance to lean on.

 

my students are more skilled than his, and i'm not even close to being a master of anything.

 

 

oh, and he's not enlightened. not even close. he's like an eclectic peyote tripper from the seventies, one of those self-proclaimed gurus who damaged a lot of people with their methods. sure, you might experience something, but NONE of if proves any of the stuff that comes out o his mouth.

 

 

1 hour = 100 years? are you stoned?

 

 

anyway, that's my honest opinion.

Edited October 14, 2007 by Hundun

[Spectrum]

Thanks for your review of Max's seminar.

 

are the techniques effective? yes. they can be. but moreso than any other system? no.

 

This has been my "suspicion" upon reading of Camerons experience, so... matrix hacker? Perhaps. Master? Masters take time and insight into a students life. No offense here, I'm simply saying before you plug someone in to the outlet you gotta check the cord for cracks or shorts. That's common Practice.

 

and maybe he doesn't have the knowledge, but if he has the abilities, it doesn't matter much.

 

Right on. I follow this as well and have been both dissapointed and rewarded. Face to face is the only way to go.

 

I have one question that has gone unanswered.

 

Being a practitioner of Taoist Arts, will Max touch hands?

 

Spectrum

Edited October 14, 2007 by Spectrum

[三江源]

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Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[Cameron]

Not pissed at all bro!

 

This is a "Forum".

 

Let's think of the Taobums Taoist Discussion like the Place in Ancient Rome where people could talk freely and without fear or apprehension. Totally cool with me man! i am the first to admit I dont' know shit just sharing my experiences!

 

However..please refrain from critisizm of Max or Kunlun on my persnal cultivation journal.

 

Thanks,

 

Cam

[mYTHmAKER]

Thanks.

Did he demonstrate his empty force - someone attacking him and being reoelled.

[Sahaj Nath]

Not pissed at all bro!

 

This is a "Forum".

 

Let's think of the Taobums Taoist Discussion like the Place in Ancient Rome where people could talk freely and without fear or apprehension. Totally cool with me man! i am the first to admit I dont' know shit just sharing my experiences!

 

However..please refrain from critisizm of Max or Kunlun on my persnal cultivation journal.

 

Thanks,

 

Cam

 

 

fair enough. i can respect that.

 

and thanks.

[bindo]

i just got back home from the SF workshop.

it's about 11:50am, so the workshop is actually still going on. *hint*

i need to rest up for a little bit, do some writing, and catch up with my students.

then i will give my honest take of Max's skill and the methods and all that good stuff.

 

I just got back from the SF seminar. LOVED IT! I'm already thinking about going to an L.A. seminar.

Hundun, you left too early, brother. We learned how to travel out of the body and meet other teachers and masters, how to run really fast, and how to test if we are grounded enough.

 

Yesterday I felt like the earth was shakin', and today I feel light as a feather.

 

It's a very laid back atmosphere and everyone was really nice. Max is real easy going and open to answering everyone's questions. It was great to meet Chris, he's got some strong energy! The mighty Kan is way cool. Poor guy got thrown against the wall at least a few times. And Lilli, who I exchanged emails with quite a few times trying to get the seminar organized, was very nice and friendly. And Richard, who had a smile on his face the entire time, is a great guy. Not to mention our Tao bum brother, Todd.

 

We learned a great set of standing postures to improve the health of each of the organ systems. The first day we held all the postures for five minutes. I worked up a sweat like I just ran 10 miles! Great workout.

 

The Kunlun practice, of course. Many had some kind of opening today. Lots of laughter, yelping, a few screams, some yelling. One woman spoke in tongues a little bit.

 

And Red Phoenix. A more passive practice where you feel energy moving between two points in your head.

 

Everything was geared towards awakening on a spiritual level. Max has a lot of energy, couldn't be friendlier, and seems to really enjoy sharing his knowledge and experience with others. I could listen to him speak for days on end.

 

Here's a helpful hint; during break times, don't wander away for too long. Some of the most interesting things Max said were during the breaks when he walks around talking to people, answering questions.

 

As for Max's abilities, I believe they are real. You'll see him demonstrate on Kan, and Mari if she's there. It's as if a bolt of lightening is passing thru their bodies.

 

One more thing. If you want a one on one session with Max, sign up as soon as possible. I, unfortunately, waited till saturday to make an appointment and his schedule was already full. Kan and Richard also do healing work on a donation basis. And Diana does energy field clearing on a sliding scale basis.

 

Gordon

[gendao]

Being a practitioner of Taoist Arts, will Max touch hands?

 

Spectrum

Yes, he will and did (in a friendly manner).

 

And thanks for the ballsy feedback, Hundun. I'm sure different people will have different opinons, especially depending upon their own experience level. Perhaps I'm an easily-impressed noob. And perhaps a more accomplished cultivator as Hundun might not be so impressed. If that's true, it might still be worth it for me, but less so for Hundun.

 

So, I'll still be interested to hear the other feedback on this workshop. And personally, I would also be interested in hearing about the Reptilian/alien ancestries myself.

 

And was he intellectually or physically challenged at the lecture? Just curious..

 

BTW, I must admit I am a little intrigued at Hundun's own level now?

Edited October 14, 2007 by vortex

[Wun Yuen Gong]

WOW, Hundun can u tell me what type of style or thought you teach?

 

WYG

[Sahaj Nath]

Thanks for your review of Max's seminar.

This has been my "suspicion" upon reading of Camerons experience, so... matrix hacker? Perhaps. Master? Masters take time and insight into a students life. No offense here, I'm simply saying before you plug someone in to the outlet you gotta check the cord for cracks or shorts. That's common Practice.

Right on. I follow this as well and have been both dissapointed and rewarded. Face to face is the only way to go.

 

I have one question that has gone unanswered.

 

Being a practitioner of Taoist Arts, will Max touch hands?

 

Spectrum

 

 

yes. he touches hands.

 

i wasn't aware of there being a taboo about touching hands.

[Smile]

someone leveled a challenge at him, and he blew much of his own credibility trying to respond/back-peddle

Can you say more on this?

you can eat whatever you want because energy is energy and the differences are illusion and kunlun activates the alchemical process so that he can even drink mercury without being affected.

I believe he didn't recommend following his diet, as most people are not ready. But I have to agree that there is no excuse for eatting junk food.

and cameron (though i'm sure he might be pissed at me for making this post) was correct about max's approach to teaching the red phoenix being irresponsible. it's a down-right dangerous practice unless you're NOT developed enough to really move the energy. and even then, it's a dubious practice.

I would say you are correct it may be dangerous for most of the people attending. It would be better if it was taught after Kunlun Level 3.

i can't help but feel like maybe chris "created" max. chris definitely the intelligent, man behind the scene (or behind the curtain) guy.

Nahhh, Max (chicken) was long there before Chris (the egg).

[Cameron]

I disagree about Max's diet..I think I will not go full blown Max yet but will build up to it.

 

However..I am a little uncomfortable that Red Phoenix is still being taught at Level 1. I mean..I trust Max..but my feeling about it is teaching RP at Level 1 is like walking a razors edge.

 

If Chris could please say something about this. I myself have stopped doing RP and committed to doing just Level 1 for a year.

 

C

Edited October 14, 2007 by Cameron

[三江源]

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Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[mantis]

wow hundun! you really have balls! lol!

[Sahaj Nath]

Oh Goodness. How funny.

 

Thankyou Hundun.

I love the transcript bit.

Hundun- did you do the kunlun practise? How did you find it?

 

too early to say. the 'raising the heels' thing is a good technique, so i will be experimenting with it for the next few months using different postures.

[mantis]

how do you feel about kriya yoga hundun?

[Cameron]

Todd,

 

I see you on the thread..what was your experience?

 

Don't make me have to call you..seriously..i am paronoid to use my cell phone now and would probably throw it out if our whole modern society didnt' demand using the damn things!

[三江源]

ok, thanks. I'm really liking the kunlun practise. The heels up thing is a new one on me.

 

 

I'm really glad you made this post and gave us something objective, tangible, and assessed from the w/e. Very helpful.

[Spectrum]

By touching hands I mean exchange of circular force like friendly push hands. Simple enough. I don't mean rolling around on the ground like dogs.

 

I don't know what the heels up thing means, but in chi gung practice when your standing wuji, if you put the weight on the front of your foot your legs will vibrate fast, but it's feedback. Your removing your ground. Guys thud/ground their heels when they get smacked in the balls. In contrast I remember a chi gung from somewhere that you are forward all the way on your metatarsal heads, with the feet vertical and the hands are extended and held in tiger claws... just breath... now... breath... now

 

The Kunlun practice, of course. Many had some kind of opening today. Lots of laughter, yelping, a few screams, some yelling. One woman spoke in tongues a little bit.

 

Sounds like Chi Gung Church. Any Toning?

 

Spectrum

Edited October 14, 2007 by Spectrum

[Wun Yuen Gong]

To me the lifting of the heels is about unearthing and allowing your energy to run around the body, the legs vibrating is the nerves getting energy and rebalancing (maybe). I had some interesting heat and movement but i also held other hand postures which brought alot more then what is taught in the hand posture in level 1.

 

Dropping the feet/heels is allowing the Kidney 1 point to reconnect to the earth, is it a good thing to unearth when doing med and chi kung?

[Todd]

I am not as energetically developed as Hundun apparently is. I certainly cannot see energy being streamed, but I will say that I was very much turned off by the seminar.

 

This is my personal experience. I generally haven't been inclined to share my experience recently, since I am sure that I am not solidly in recognition of truth. But I can say that just about everything in me says that Max and MantraProductions are not for me. This could change, as anything can change, but I wouldn't bet anything on it, even at very high odds.

 

I feel unbalanced. I felt unbalanced from the time I began considering the seminar, and it has only gotten worse until now. Being unbalanced is not necessarily bad, and I do not think it was the wrong decision for me to attend. I had something to learn, and perhaps Kunlun has something to offer me as a practice, but if there is a direction to truth, further involvement with these seminars is the opposite direction for me.

 

Hundun: I'm sorry that I missed you at the seminar. One of the reasons I went was to talk to you. I wasn't expecting you to be with others, and I didn't really clue in to which person you might be until just before you left, when you were standing next to me holding the ball. I went outside and came back in looking to talk to you, and you were gone. I respect your not wanting to talk to me though, if that was the case.

 

Bindo: good luck to you brother.

[portcraig]

I like practicing Kunlun and the other things I have learned from Max. I definitely feel a change in my energy since I started practicing. I have attended two seminars and will be attending my third in San Diego in a week. For me it really feels like the right path to follow and I enjoy learning from Max. I guess I have an affinity in what he is teaching. I hope that the others who did not have a good experience will find the teaching or practice that is best for them. Craig

[Yoda]

Awesome feedback everyone, thank you!!

 

I'm glad we got some good solid negative votes expressed in very concrete terms... the Taobum coverage of Max now feels much more complete and balanced, so thank you Todd and Hundun for speaking up in such a pro-Max atmosphere... please share more if you are so inspired.

 

Amusingly, we are in the exact same place we were several weeks ago before we had sent our ambassadors... a real mixed reaction.

 

Having said that, the whole discussion has really drawn me in from one of pure indifference to a real fascination and admiration for Max. I'm keeping the candle lit that he'll keep RP on the docket for Phoenix!

[lockpaw]

 

i was actually shocked at how rank and superficial his knowledge base was. he will attract a number of new age people, as he IS one. HUGE leaps to our ancestries being from other planets and shit. reptilian races and shit. and, to be honest, i'm just crazy enough to go there if you can lay an effective groundwork. he offered none. only that we were a tight-knit group now that the "undesirables" had been weeded out the night before (someone leveled a challenge at him, and he blew much of his own credibility trying to respond/back-peddle), so he can now clue us in to his "crazy wisdom."

 

Reptilian races? Like David Icke "Children of the Matrix" reptile races?