max and the SF kunlun workshop

[lockpaw]

Since this appears to be a Taoist themed event.... Was Wuji, "Sung" or the principles of Taiji or Chi Gung discussed/practiced? Were the ideas of "observation" and "listening" presented or discussed?

 

Great questions. I would hate to see them swallowed up by the infinitely long posts (Do we really need to quote a fifty page post in order to respond to it? ).

[doc benway]

Great questions. I would hate to see them swallowed up by the infinitely long posts (Do we really need to quote a fifty page post in order to respond to it? ).

Nope - good point!

[Smile]

i wasn't there to get blissed out. i was there to seek the guidance of a true master. someone who could look right into me and know where i've been, and know what i need to reach the highest levels. someone who could share wisdom or tools to help me with some of the issues that arise with my patients. someone who could make me a better servant to others.

 

i didn't find that.

Wow, I can feel your pain and certainly can relate to that. Sorry...

[Cameron]

We need to change the name of Taobums.

 

Should now be called the online Taoist Soap Opera "As the Tao Flows".

 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Cameron

[Yoda]

[Smile]

We need to change the name of Taobums.

 

Should now be called the online Taoist Soap Opera "As the Tao Flows".

 

Just my 2 cents.

Only if you change your blog name to "Seriously..no posts from me for the next week"

Lol

[mYTHmAKER]

I want to be house bookie for whether or not Cam posts when he says he won't

[Cameron]

Everytime I try not to post and you guys pull me back in you make me feel like Don Corleone in this final scene of The Godfather.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZOZnJI4lM

 

You know..Sophia Coppola got alot of crap for her acting in this role(where she has a special realationship with her cousin..played by Andy Garcia) However in retrospect..she is fine.

[Shen Ming-Kuan]

he said nothing of substance. nothing. he could have broken down how the snake clan(s) was derived from or connected to these races. he could broken down some of the masonic symbolism and how it shed light on this stuff (my grandfather was a master mason) [...]

Hundun, I am greatly appreciative of your bringing another perspective to all this, and for doing it with such incisiveness and candor. I was curious: What is the exact nature of Max's connection(s) to the Masons?

[Oolong Rabbit]

There's only one solution.... Hundun and Mantra blast each other with their chi and whoever's internal organs explode first wins.... no I mean loses. Okay, so I admit I watch too many kung fu movies. On a serious note, I have come to respect Hundun, and I think he tends to speak from the heart. I have never gotten a vibe of arrogance, or egoism from him. If anything, I have seen a reluctance to say too much in order to avoid unnecessary confrontation. I think he was just disappointed because Max did not live up to his expectations. It's a fair and honest assessment in my humble opinion, and I am glad he shared it with us.

[thelerner]

I want to be house bookie for whether or not Cam posts when he says he won't

 

Right Like anyone would take THAT bet.

 

 

[Cameron]

No.....post....for...week.......

 

posts...posts....

[Mantra68]

Hundun, I wish you the best my friend. I really do.

 

I hope you got something out of the seminar that can help you later. These methods are sound and very effective.

 

Good luck, man.

[Mal]

I want to be house bookie for whether or not Cam posts when he says he won't

 

 

Right Like anyone would take THAT bet.

 

haha. hahahahahahahha ........... I feel Bliss

 

No.....post....for...week.......

 

posts...posts....

 

You can do it if you really WANT to

[三江源]

Here seems to be the story so far: Max says some crazy things (reptilian races, immortality) but people are having actual reactions to him. However, whenever some one says something bad about Max, there are ad hominem attacks on the person. Would a Bodhisattva's students react to criticisms of their teacher this way?

 

I have seen a lot of talk about energy, but little to no talk about developing compassion, virtue, or spiritual wisdom (same goes for the movie and the website). It all seems to be about power and impressing people with how much power some one has. And if some one disagrees, it is not handled with skillful means, but like a bunch of schoolyard bullies. That's what ego does: it lashes out if something disagrees or challenges it.

Just because some one has power doesn't mean either 1) they are truthful or 2) sane. Max may be a miracle worker, but that says nothing about presenting a valid spiritual path.

 

Mantra and Cameron, if Max is the real deal, who cares if people criticize him? The word will get out. You're reaction to criticism makes me, a neutral observer, think you have something to hide.

Huh? This is the point of being online: to get all views. No one has time/money/resources to see all the teachers out there. We need to weed out the crooks and the crazies and find the gold. You only do that by sharing information, bro.

 

I would like some one to explain about these reptilian races!

 

 

I agree here, with lockpaw. I really do. To me, a criticism of a teacher is par for the course, no -one goes uncriticised in life.

You show your colours by how you respond.

 

As for the reptilean races. To get the clearest and most vivid and credible story about what that was all about - read Michael Harner. No better source. The way of the Shaman

[Golden Phoenix]

In Honolulu, we often used to joke that our after-class gatherings at the coffee shop were the real classes! Max is open to and happy to share his experiences and knowledge with us; so your suggestion to stay close by during the breaks at the seminar is right on! Glad that you had such a positive experience at the seminar. It's been an amazing year for me -- started from the first classes when I began last October -- and so it continues with my move to LA, the seminars, and the opportunity to share and practice with friends here. Practicing Kunlun with a sincere and open attitude and banishing all expectations, clears the way for deep blissful awakenings that are healing and empowering. I'm glad I was able to come to the seminars. Thanks for sharing your experiences of the San Fran seminar.

[gendao]

As for the reptilean races. To get the clearest and most vivid and credible story about what that was all about - read Michael Harner. No better source. The way of the Shaman

Could you give us the Cliffs Notes version on that?

 

I've heard so many different things about them I don't know exactly what to believe anymore?

 

Feel free to start a new "Reptilian" thread for this too, btw.

Edited October 16, 2007 by vortex

[Trunk]

"Reptilian"

google "naga", "nagas", "kunlun nagas" look at the pictures, read the articles.

[Sahaj Nath]

Hundun, I am greatly appreciative of your bringing another perspective to all this, and for doing it with such incisiveness and candor. I was curious: What is the exact nature of Max's connection(s) to the Masons?

 

thank you, friend.

 

max never said what the nature of his connection was, only that he spent time with them and they were impressed with his kunlun method. again, very surface.

 

one of the younger people at the seminar was dubious of max for even mentioning the masons because he believed that they were an evil secret society. he asked max about it. max attempted to dissuade him of his fears, saying that they are just people like any other group. i chimed in and told the kid that my grandfather was a master mason and that the fear mongering was actually political in nature. petty power struggles between powerful groups. max agreed.

 

this made me feel a little better about him. he didn't say anything particularly profound, but he didn't just make up something, either.

[Matt]

my standard textbook for all my students is The Healing Promise of Qi by Roger Jahnke. i reviewed it on amazon. you'll recognize my name.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=Y3FcaF4V6...GERy5cI#PPP1,M1

[Spectrum]

BTT for response to my question on the basic prerequisites for practice.

 

(Spectrum @ Oct 15 2007, 10:06 AM) *

 

Since this appears to be a Taoist themed event.... Was Wuji, "Sung" or the principles of Taiji or Chi Gung discussed/practiced? Were the ideas of "observation" and "listening" presented or discussed?

 

(Loackpaw)

Great questions. I would hate to see them swallowed up by the infinitely long posts (Do we really need to quote a fifty page post in order to respond to it?

[Sahaj Nath]

BTT for response to my question on the basic prerequisites for practice.

 

ah.

 

sorry.

 

as you might have guessed, no. nothing.

 

i think his point was that after the kunlun method, all the rest of it becomes obsolete.

 

it would have sat better with me if he had expressed that he was at least familiar with the basic prerequisites. but by the looks of the crowd, i honestly don't think their target audience is taoists or experienced cultivators. with the exception of a few bums, the crowd was, by and large, the type of audience you would expect at a new age event.

 

during the standing 5 elements practice on saturday, it was obvious that most of the people there didn't really have any background. people were shaking, straining, and sweating after 5 minutes of just standing with knees slightly bent. one of the arm posed DID strain me because i had never done it before, but the stance itself is very basic and i was surprised that so many people were having trouble. it suggested to me that very few people there had any history in the internal arts to compare the practices to.

[Sahaj Nath]

Thanks Hundun for sharing yourself so openly. You've given a very respectable context to your point of view, which I really appreciate and I'm sure others do too.

 

I agree transmission doesnt make a Master. Absolutely 100% right.

 

(It's an interesting point as to what DOES make a Master. I'd say Ken Cohen is Master, would you, if you know of him? )

 

 

thank you, cat.

 

i am familiar with ken cohen. his knowledge base is pretty phenomenal. even when he's talking about the simplest and most basic of practices, it's clear that he has mastered it. extremely thorough. and even the more abstract elements come across effortlessly and simply.

 

i have his 100-day training course. to be honest, it bored me at first. but later it became my companion and aided me in memorizing and owning the foundation of cultivation.

 

he has my respect and admiration.

[Cameron]

I talked to Ken twice this week.

 

Great guy.

 

He invited me to a Native American class he is teaching soon but I think it is close to same time Max will be here so I told him probably can't make it.

[Sahaj Nath]

you know, after going though a ton of older threads and talking privately to a few people, i'm beginning to soften up a little about max.

 

 

 

he struck me as a genuinely nice guy when i met him, and even after my disappointment i couldn't shake that fact.

 

 

i mean, let's face facts: there were some things said that were just flat-out untrue. if people are still unconvinced, i have a partial list.

 

but the feel i got from him was positive.

 

 

maybe the biggest problem is fear on the part of mantra:

 

 

"...some people NEED TO SEE the robes and whatnot in order to value the information they are getting and respect the person who is presenting it. This is part of the human psyche.

 

An exalted, dramatic presentation is absolutely necessary for some people because collectively we judge books by their cover."

 

or maybe it's not fear; maybe it's pure marketing strategy. but i don't want to believe that.

 

 

i think maybe if you were able to trust in authenticity, and fuck what you think the audience wants (not needs), i might not have responded so disagreeably.

 

 

i don't know about the claim of enlightenment. well, actually, i think i do know. the claim of enlightenment is kind of bunk. but the claim of joy and bliss is true. the claim that these states can help the ego let go is true.

 

and the fact that this incredibly simple technique is more profound in results than most people have or will ever experience is true.

 

 

so why the hell can't that be enough? why all the sensational shit? fear is ego, and the idea that people NEED TO SEE the bullshit only underscores my belief that true enlightenment is not to be found on this path.

 

i want to like max. i do.

 

i think my biggest problem has more to do with how he is being represented (and how he's maybe buying into the necessity of that representation), than it does with max as a person.

 

i needed to put that out there.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Hundun