max and the SF kunlun workshop

[Cameron]

Pretty cool we live in a country where you can do a worshop with a dude who is being called "Highest level openly teaching" and then you can come on the internet and voice your opinions freely and openly and it is OK.

 

I mean..do you really think this sort of thing would be ok in China?!

 

JUST SAYING.

[Trunk]

and the fact that this incredibly simple technique is more profound in results than most people have or will ever experience is true.

 

so why the hell can't that be enough? why all the sensational ..?

I've had a private discussion with Chris along those lines and there is some degree of agreement. I said that they have an over-emphasis of showy stuff & Max, and that they should balance it out with things about really basic 'health & happiness' benefits of the practice. I had a practical suggestion along those lines that could be used in the workshop setting, also Chris said that there were plans already in the works to emphasize the method more at the website. They haven't been doing the seminars for very long, are learning and making adjustments, and have openness to practical constructive feedback.

[90_1494798740]

... and that they should balance it out with things about really basic 'health & happiness' benefits of the practice.

 

Yes, the 'health & happiness' point is really the most striking part and should definitly be emphasized more. I have done 'Kulun I' for around a month now. Only form the book, without the transmission. I have a lot of energy and are constantly in a good mood. I'm also witnessing some astonishing changes concerning my health/body. I will probably comment on this in few months. Just to see how things really develop.

 

The first time I looked at the website I was fascinated and repelled at the same time. To much show, so to speak. Only Cameron's 'Top 5' brought my attention back to Max and Kulun. That's why I invested the few bucks on the book - just to satisfy my curiosity. ... still curious how my investment develops.

[Yoda]

I think that bizarre metaphysics and displays of siddhis are very important to disclose upfront if they are part of the system in question.

 

They chase most people away, but you don't want people to bump into weird stuff after making a significant investment of energy if they can't deal with it. Let them be repelled up front and that could save them a lot of difficult feelings down the road... like Hundun's sudent... who Hundun believes shouldn't have been there.

 

The Ken Cohen type of path is the way to go for most taoists, imo.

 

Demonstrating siddhis is part of the disclosure thing and it builds faith which hugely enhances the efficacy of the practice.

 

The vibe I get from Max isn't one of helping people be better adjusted and lowering their blood pressure, etc... he's way too much of a wildman for that kind of a presentation... he'd nod off during his presentation!

 

Having said that, it's my impression that Max's teachings really do boil down to have fun and be happy and healthy.

[gendao]

I've had a private discussion with Chris along those lines and there is some degree of agreement. I said that they have an over-emphasis of showy stuff & Max, and that they should balance it out with things about really basic 'health & happiness' benefits of the practice.

I dunno, that sounds more like the HT model - emphasis on health with a master who can talk a good game, but can't perform any siddhis.

 

To me, the proof is in the pudding and siddhis are one way to separate the talkers from the doers. So, I find them pretty crucial to my own interest and belief in a "guru."

[Trunk]

I dunno, that sounds more like the HT model - emphasis on health with a master who can talk a good game, but can't perform any siddhis.

 

To me, the proof is in the pudding and siddhis are one way ...

Agreed. My comment wasn't meant to be about eliminating focus on Max & the sensational, just adjust the mix some.

[Sahaj Nath]

like Hundun's sudent... who Hundun believes shouldn't have been there.

 

just for clarification:

 

i didn't have any students there. not sure how that got communicated.

 

 

 

my point isn't really "to show, or not to show," though i think the whole "scare them off early" idea has NOTHING really to do with the strategy, as per mantra's own words that i quoted above.

 

i think there's more credibility when the displays are downplayed. and i think it's more impressive when it's somewhat under-emphasized and explained and shown as simple principles at play.

Edited October 23, 2007 by Hundun

[affenbrot]

[三江源]

and cameron (though i'm sure he might be pissed at me for making this post) was correct about max's approach to teaching the red phoenix being irresponsible. it's a down-right dangerous practice unless you're NOT developed enough to really move the energy. and even then, it's a dubious practice.

Hundun

 

 

I would say you are correct it may be dangerous for most of the people attending. It would be better if it was taught after Kunlun Level 3.

 

 

However..I am a little uncomfortable that Red Phoenix is still being taught at Level 1. I mean..I trust Max..but my feeling about it is teaching RP at Level 1 is like walking a razors edge.

 

If Chris could please say something about this. I myself have stopped doing RP and committed to doing just Level 1 for a year.

 

C

 

 

Just seen this thread again, thanks to the great stuff in here by Smile being quoted by AugustLeo.. thanks Smile! ... and wanted to check in with you all about RP.

 

How are you doing with it?

What is your opinion/ sense of it now, further down the line?

If anyone can shed some light on it, I'd be glad. Like, does it have any history? Where does it come from? What could go wrong?

[Cameron]

Ooooooo flashback.

 

Cat I made a whole big thread about this on the Kunlun Board

 

I think Max updated the way he teaches to include more grounding practices. That was my sense of the last workshop I saw him. You have to understand from what I went through I think I was a pretty unique case. I didn't sleep for almost two months after meeting Max. I had never experienced anything remotely like that and yes it was a little frightening at times.

 

But now I sleep normal hours and have had a year to process stuff. Red Phoenix is good stuff but you need to work on opening up the lower tan tien with alot of grounding stuff along with it.

 

 

Max's approach is to give you all the methods and the transmission and let you unpack it yourself. It seems to work well for most people. Many people have had what sounds like powerful awakenings from Red Phoenix.

 

Cam

[三江源]

oh! I must check KL board.. dang, having two boards is just too complicated for me..

 

I like RP and havent had any problems from it apart from the original Big Bang in the head and nosebleed.. but I hold back from it because... well.. that's my brain in there...

Edited October 8, 2008 by cat

[Cameron]

The main thing I got is to be very gentle and relaxed with the practice. Obviously, we can't talk about specifics here. But for people who know and over there you can. Also, if you read my jounral on KF I have spoken about my experiences with RP.

[三江源]

okay liebchen I will transfer my attention to the bum annexe.

 

Fangs.

 

xxx

[Smile]

I like RP and havent had any problems from it apart from the original Big Bang in the head and nosebleed.. but I hold back from it because... well.. that's my brain in there...

Lol, you're sweet.

As for RP practice, I don't really like to be a part of an experiment. Very irresponsible.

[Yoda]

Smile,

 

We don't currently have much of a Kunlun critique around here from somebody who has actually tried the practice. It'd be great to hear from you on this front.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[AugustLeo]

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[Mal]

Edited October 9, 2008 by Mal

[Spirit Ape]

Wouldnt anything be using the brain anyway, if you focus on dan tian you are already using the brain, and if you are following the breath you are also using the brain!

 

During KL1 and adding RP when you finish anyway wouldnt u be grounding with the closing?

 

SP

[Taomeow]

As for RP practice, I don't really like to be a part of an experiment. Very irresponsible.

You reckon RP is more dangerous to experiment with than a mukhomor?

Edited October 9, 2008 by Taomeow

[Mal]

Wouldnt anything be using the brain anyway,

 

You are correct, this might make more sense

 

Meditations involving visualising energy and moving it inside the brain are almost always universally condemned as very dangerous.

 

Don't you just love "secret" practices where nobody quite knows what you are describing

[mgd]

Lol, you're sweet.

As for RP practice, I don't really like to be a part of an experiment. Very irresponsible.

 

Smile?

 

Would you please elaborate on why you felt that you were part of an experiment?

 

Who was irresponsible? Max for teaching it, or you for not telling others you had quit practicing after a few months, and even so continued to speak highly of Max and the practices encouraging others at times to stick with it?

 

Did you only practice Kunlun and not RP?

 

Is this something that you are feeling now only in retrospect?

 

I remember reading that you went to a handful of seminars and devoted lots of dirt time toward these arts...I'd really appreciate any feedback you are willing to share.

 

Thank you.

Edited October 9, 2008 by mgd

[Taomeow]

You are correct, this might make more sense

 

Meditations involving visualising energy and moving it inside the brain are almost always universally condemned as very dangerous.

 

Don't you just love "secret" practices where nobody quite knows what you are describing

"Universally condemned" by whom?

 

In female alchemy, the crystal chamber plus breath awareness are the universal key, and what is considered dangerous is "developing the lower dantien." Go figure.

 

Max warned against visualizing color in the head, which was the first time I ever heard this "safety tip" from anyone. I've done scores of meditations from other sources that do all kinds of things with the brain, notably a set of Hindu practices where you not only visualize color but scenes with sounds and smells alternating between the left and right hemispheres, one by one and then going simultaneously -- e.g., a black dog barks in your left brain while a white tiger roars in your right one, a plum tree blossoms in your left one but you're smelling red roses in your right one, and so on. I did the taoist Purple Rose meditation quite often, with lots of vibrant color in the head involved, and the worst thing that happened was, I couldn't move the colors to all the meridians where they were supposed to go and gave up. This one can really drive one nuts, 'tis true. But RP? Well, I think ANY practice can drive someone nuts, the term "qigong insanity" refers to, not a specific kind of practice but to an unfortunate combination of just about any practice with a certain specific kind of practitioner.

 

Nothing is "completely safe," but I would say the more dangerous practices are the ones that move the energies upward. A downward flow is, as a general rule, quite a bit safer. However, "safe" is a good bet for when one is after preserving the status quo. If the status quo itself starts moving from under you, the way it is these days, one might land on one's ass precisely as a result of trying to stay in a safe zone.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Taomeow

[AugustLeo]

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[Yoda]

AugustLeo,

 

Slick shootin' Tex! Thanks for the writeup!!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Mal]