Too much jing is an issue

[voidisyinyang]

Ying Qi is also known as Acquired or Post Heavenly Qi. Ying Qi is produced by the Spleen from food and water and mixes with Yuan Qi which is stored in the Kidneys. Ying Qi is seen as replenishing one's Yuan Qi. Over the course of one's life, Yuan Qi is slowly depleted by day to day activities. A bad diet, illness, or Spleen disharmony will fail to produce sufficient Qi to restore reserves and the body suffers. Overindulgence in Sex, illness or other Kidney disharmony will deplete Yuan Qi faster than the Spleen can produce Ying Qi to top it up.

 

http://www.compassionatedragon.com/qi.html

[voidisyinyang]

Quote from Daniel Reed's - A complete guide to Chi Gung - Page 12.

"Prenatal energy, also known in Chinese as yuan qi (premordial energy) is the energy converted from the prenatal essence of glands, as well as the energy assimilated from cosmic sources in the sky (Heaven)

[voidisyinyang]

Kenneth S Cohen - The way of Qigong - Pg 33 -

 

"We are also born with a supply of yuan qi . It is a gift from the universe, inherited from our cosmic parents, the Yin & the Yang. I call this transpersonal original qi. Inherited original qi is a given; we cannot go back to the time of conception in order to increase our present supply. We can, however, supplement it by practicing meditation and spiritual developement......"

 

So I have 5 sources now all confirming and corroborating what Taoist YOga details

 

food plus meditation replenishes yuan qi.

 

Taoist Yoga gives the details of how this is done.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=KzCqAy24uNkC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=transforming+food+into+yuan+qi&source=bl&ots=1HRgcTkO2J&sig=W2QCAFPLzvrlzZnBl8cC1Mq12RE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3bRXVeLEFcvtsAWXkoGoBg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=transforming%20food%20into%20yuan%20qi&f=false

 

That first supplemental source says the same details pretty much as Taoist Yoga - only it's just a preview so incomplete.

[opendao]

That link also says, I quote, "yuan qi is the postnatal qi". 

 

yes, "We know that genuine qi is different from yuan qi from the transformation process between them. Genuine qi is the innate qi, present in the spiritual body, and yuan qi is the postnatal qi, present in the physical body." LOL

 

Just another book without any understandings of basics. There are a lot of such quotes. People forgot that to drink water from a dirty source is not very healthy. They quoted Ma ChuanXu, but he is a well known person, and it's obvious that he hasn't replenished anything....

[voidisyinyang]

separating semantics from meaning is based on the intention of the reader.

 

I know what the author means.

 

But thanks for the actual quote.

 

"....the right kidney is the Gate of Life-Destiny. The Gate of Life-Destiny is the residence of the mind and is related to the original chi (yuan-chi)."

 

Classic of Difficult Issues (Nan-Ching), chapter 36

 

Again - meditation plus food restores yuan qi.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[voidisyinyang]

There is an understanding of the process

 

And then there's ad hominems.

 

I'll go with understanding personally.

 

that's 6 supplemental sources to Taoist Yoga now.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[Aetherous]

direct quote please - gossip doesn't count.

 

Yes, as opendao pointed out, what I said was a direct quote from your link...it was not at all gossip.

 

I know what the author means.

 

If you did, you'd realize that the author is wrong.

[voidisyinyang]

Here is the specific way the yuan qi is replenished via food.

 

Thanks for your wonderful insights though. haha.

 

Like - "the author is wrong" - that's great evidence there!

 

Food and Air is a source of Qi - our body through exercises uses up most of that qi.

 

The mind, the Yi, can lead the Qi and change the qi.

 

If we don't believe that there's no point in doing qigong.

 

The mind can cause this qi to change - the key way is through the emotional states.

 

Information from the mind changes the emotion to change the quality of the information going through us.

 

http://www.scholarsage.com/yang-qi-and-yuan-jing-part-3/

 

Yuan Qi sits around the yuan points around wrists and ankles - so it's good to flex and move the wrists and ankles.

 

The blood is yin and nourishes the yin organs and depends on the quality of the food and air and the quality of the heart and lungs in particular.

 

Heart damaged by emotions and lungs by the air and emotions and work closely together.

 

Emotions can be silenced through our breath to some extent since the diaphragm is connected to the pericardium, the fascia surrounding the heart.

 

By slowing and evening out the breath you quiet the emotions and also change your mind.

 

The ying qi can then move through the blood and nourish the body better.

 

The spleen (Yi - intention) converts food qi into brain qi - Gu Qi.

 

 

 

The Spleen sends the pure energetic essence of Gu Qi up to the Lungs, where (with the help of Yuan Qi and Kidney Qi) it combines with air and transforms into Zong Qi.... The Lungs and Kidney mutually assist each other via Zong Qi and Yuan Qi. Zong Qi flows downward to aid the Kidneys while Yuan Qi flows upward to aid in respiration (and the formation of Zong Qi).

 

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/the-concept-of-qi-part-1

 

So there you have the details of how yuan qi is replenished - the proper Yi intention of the spleen increases the gu qi which increases the zong qi which increases the yuan qi.

 

 

 

In modern terms, Brain Gu encompasses conditions like....It is part of the very definition of Gu that a general state of deficiency precedes infection—especially spleen qi deficiency, which specifically enables wind and damp influences to breach a person’s defenses and enter into their system. It is quite typical that someone with Brain Gu simultaneously also suffers from Digestive Gu, or the other way around. Either way, it is part of the definition of Gu Syndrome that proper mental functioning is affected in some way.

 

http://www.classicalchinesemedicine.org/2014/06/an-ancient-solution-for-modern-diseases-gu-syndrome-and-chronic-inflammatory-diseases-with-autoimmune-complications/

 

 

 

Gu Qi – Food Qi or Food Essence Substance produced from food by the body (in TCM, Spleen). Replenishes Yuan Qi

 

http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/qi-acupuncture-points-and-energy-meridians-proceedings?rel=canonical

 

confirmation there.

[opendao]

Here is the specific way the yuan qi is replenished via food.

 

 

The Spleen sends the pure energetic essence of Gu Qi up to the Lungs, where (with the help of Yuan Qi and Kidney Qi) it combines with air and transforms into Zong Qi.... The Lungs and Kidney mutually assist each other via Zong Qi and Yuan Qi. Zong Qi flows downward to aid the Kidneys while Yuan Qi flows upward to aid in respiration (and the formation of Zong Qi).

 

So there you have the details of how yuan qi is replenished - the proper Yi intention of the spleen increases the gu qi which increases the zong qi which increases the yuan qi.

 

http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/qi-acupuncture-points-and-energy-meridians-proceedings?rel=canonical

 

confirmation there.

 

simple logical mistake: if Zhong Qi moves down to kidneys, it doesn't mean it replenishes yuan qi. Failed again. And sure Veterinary Calendar is the best source of knowledge in Neidan ))) No comments.

[voidisyinyang]

Gee ClosedDao I'm sorry I didn't convince you!

 

haha.

 

Maybe you think I'm trying to sell you something?

 

Nope - I am learning something - but not from you that's for sure! hahaha.

 

You can make up your sorry little excuses but you can't stop me from learning!

 

Hilarious!

 

Go ahead - keep on misrepresenting the information I found - all you want - just like you liked about the Taoist Yoga book.

 

Seriously I want you to be who ever you want to be - I'm not trying to "convince" you of anything or sell you anything, etc.

 

And by the way - I know that you truly have the "secret".

 

haha.

[voidisyinyang]

Damo Mitchell as I posted - already has stated that acquired qi builds up yuan qi - and again this is done through the spleen connection to the lungs:

 

The Ming
Fire is closely related to Ming Men, a key acupuncture point located on the lower back between the
Kidneys. This vaporisation corresponds to the Yang aspect of the Kidneys (while their Yin function
relates to the storage of Jing). Because it rules ascending within the body, the Spleen assists the
process of vaporisation that starts in the Kidneys by raising Qi. This upwards process terminates in
the Lungs, which receive the pure fluids sent from the Spleen and circulate them throughout the
body. Understanding how the water system of irrigation takes place within the human body is
helpful as Nei Gong relies on the circulation of Qi and Blood throughout the Jing Luo (energetic
pathways). If Blood and Qi are to circulate freely within the body’s ‘stream and valleys and caves’,
the Qi Men (energy gates) must be open. The most basic requirement to keep the body’s pathways
open is stretching.

On the energetic level, the key to controlling Qi is to use our Yi (intent)—another aspect of the Yuan
Shen. Because the Yi is housed in the Spleen, our intent can be developed by strengthening this
particular organ. On the other hand, a weak Spleen will result in poor focus. Through our Qi Gong
practice, we aim at linking the physical and energy bodies together by ‘working’ (Gong) our ‘breath’
(Qi) with our ‘intent’ (Yi).

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scholarsage.com%2F2014%2F06%3Fprint%3Dpdf-page&ei=xhVYVdOcC8OCsAWB8oCoBg&usg=AFQjCNGOfw0mEfXsLghn0uI8a0bJFIqqjg&sig2=_vzT3d9VbkCOQuuP0QAoug&bvm=bv.93564037,d.b2w&cad=rja

[voidisyinyang]

https://books.google.com/books?id=Ur6fAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=zong+qi+replenishes+yuan+qi&source=bl&ots=uSFTBdScPO&sig=bVSf4FBCX1EOOYTaKECjwGLBHnc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3xZYVajJIcWKsAXkyIDABg&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=zong%20qi%20replenishes%20yuan%20qi&f=false

 

Ying Qi (from spleen) and Zhong qi replenish Yuan Qi

[Aetherous]

It seems you're confusing zong qi and zhong qi. They are different terms! It's not that someone simply forgot to put the 'h' sometimes.

Did you know that ying qi is basically part of both zong qi and zhong qi, or did you think it was some completely separate kind of qi in the body that works with those to make yuan qi? It's theorized that zong qi ends up transforming into zhen qi, which is ying qi and wei qi.

 

Zhong qi is basically a term for how well the middle jiao is functioning. Sometimes in more ancient medical texts these terns are all seemingly used interchangably...for instance it can be said simply that ying qi is coming directly from the Stomach..........rather than the Stomach sending the vivified food essences to the Spleen which sends gu qi up to the Lungs to combine with breath to create zong qi which through yuan qi creates zhen qi which is ying qi and wei qi.

They can interchange the terms because they understand them. The source of ying qi is the Stomach ultimately, so they can say it comes from the Stomach, rather than giving the whole theory of how ying qi is created and refined.

 

It's best to develop some humility when trying to understand challenging things...if there's no humility, you'll think you already understand it when you have barely scratched the surface. It's better to be unimpressed with what you know, and have a desire for truth.

[voidisyinyang]

this paper discusses the relationship between Zong Qi and Yuan Qi

 

http://www.dissertation001.com/?doc/1807751

 

 

I will examine the broader process of alchemical communication with the qi field, and then show how nei dan restores yuan qi within human nature by offering a practical process of balancing yin and yang qi at a deep level.

 

http://www.healingtaousa.com/articles/taoalchemy_ch06.html

[voidisyinyang]

It seems you're confusing zong qi and zhong qi. They are different terms! It's not that someone simply forgot to put the 'h' sometimes.

 

Did you know that ying qi is basically part of both zong qi and zhong qi, or did you think it was some completely separate kind of qi in the body that works with those to make yuan qi? It's theorized that zong qi ends up transforming into zhen qi, which is ying qi and wei qi.

 

Zhong qi is basically a term for how well the middle jiao is functioning. Sometimes in more ancient medical texts these terns are all seemingly used interchangably...for instance it can be said simply that ying qi is coming directly from the Stomach..........rather than the Stomach sending the vivified food essences to the Spleen which sends gu qi up to the Lungs to combine with breath to create zong qi which through yuan qi creates zhen qi which is ying qi and wei qi.

 

They can interchange the terms because they understand them. The source of ying qi is the Stomach ultimately, so they can say it comes from the Stomach, rather than giving the whole theory of how ying qi is created and refined.

 

It's best to develop some humility when trying to understand challenging things...if there's no humility, you'll think you already understand it when you have barely scratched the surface. It's better to be unimpressed with what you know, and have a desire for truth.

 

u're pretty funny ClosedDao made the Zhong typo - not me.

[voidisyinyang]

TCM usually identifies yuan qi as "source qi" or genetic energy acquired from one's parents, and posits that a human being has only a finite amount of yuan qi available during one's lifetime. When it is expended, one dies. TCM theory upholds a false separation between Humans, (Early) Heaven and Earth (Later Heaven), a boundary that is frequently crossed during alchemical meditation.

 

http://www.healingtaousa.com/articles/taoalchemy_ch08.html

[voidisyinyang]

But beyond the tangible bi-poles of yin & yang, in nei dan practice the third force of yuan qi is ALWAYS present as an invisible monopole dissolving any fixity. As a simple metaphor for the mind to grasp, yang qi is white light (photons that refract into 7 prismatic rays), yin qi is dark light (gravity approximates this), and yuan qi is clear light that can be polarized into both white and dark light without losing its innate neutral property.

 

Between the yin-yang (north and south) poles of our planet is a monopole of yuan qi at the earth's.center. In humans, the heart center functions as a monopole balancing messages from the head (heaven) and belly (earth) poles. In the emotional field between two lovers, there is neutral pole that holds the essence of their love beyond the time and space fluctuations of their emotional relationship. Even if they divorce, the neutral qi field created by their earlier love cannot be destroyed by their subsequent hatred for each other; the yuan qi created from their emotionally polarized qi simply ceases to be active as their personal field of communication. This is why the innate virtue of love (as neutral acceptance or unity) ultimately triumphs over the learned force of hate (as separating impulse). Forced separation does not build any yuan qi, while unificationi of opposites grows yuan qi.

 

 

http://www.healingtaousa.com/articles/taoalchemy_ch09.html

[opendao]

u're pretty funny ClosedDao made the Zhong typo - not me.

 

yes, but here it changes really nothing: nor zhong nor zong qi can replenish yuan qi by moving down to kidneys, Noisysound. 

[voidisyinyang]

"With that in mind, let examine how much time you need to complete the foundation (before you can do any actual inner alchemy). Foundational (ZhuJi) practice in longmen pai can be roughly understood as to replenish all the yuan qi that one has lost. The peak level of yuan qi that a human being can have happens when they are 16 years old (for men) or 14 years old (for women). So one can say that the foundation is built properly when the level of yuan qi in your body has returned to when you were 16 (or 14) years old. Now according to the Ling Bao Bi Fa classic text, one year (360 days) daily practice (6 hours per day) of Yin Xian Fa can replenish 10 years of lost yuan qi, and the 6 hours mentioned by the old masters refers to the practice being done in full lotus (of course!). "

 

http://longmenpai.blogspot.com/

[voidisyinyang]

http://innersoundqigong.blogspot.com/2015/05/neidan-qigong-alchemy-secret-of.html?zx=f238b7f47c7f7e5f

 

O.K. I compiled my research as one blog post.

 

Enjoy!

[opendao]

http://innersoundqigong.blogspot.com/2015/05/neidan-qigong-alchemy-secret-of.html?zx=f238b7f47c7f7e5f

 

O.K. I compiled my research as one blog post.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

A big taboo among the "secret" immortal school that needs no proof of its efficacy is that not only is celibacy not necessary after 100 days but that Yuan Qi can not be replenished no matter what. My understanding of Neidan is that both of these views are wrong - celibacy is necessary for the whole training of immortality and by proper celibacy purification indeed Yuan Qi can be replenished.

 

he is totally right: it's impossible to replenish Yuan Qi no matter how long you celibate )))

 

Obviously, there are methods (different) in Neidan to replenish yuan jing (and qi, but it's not the same).

 

Taoist Yoga

"If generative force [jing] is not purified, prenatal vitality [yuan qi] will not develop;"

 

p. 32

 

So pretty straight forward! The "secret" school says retention is wrong and also Yuan Qi can not be restored. But Taoist Yoga teaches that celibacy with purification - Emptiness focus - does indeed develop Yuan Qi. 

 

The book says "pretty straightforward" about the stage when yuan jing is fully restored so it can be purified, and yuan qi is not needed to be restored, but needs to be developed. So the conclusion has no any sense. And Innersound doesn't understand the difference between "leakage" and "sex", so he mistakenly thinks that Taoist Yoga speaks about celibacy. 

 

Then a lot of quotes by people who has never restored anything - so boring.

 

Celibacy is used in some schools to fix the effect of the practice, but it's not what really restores yuan jing (and not what develops yuan qi).

 

 

"The "secret" school says retention is wrong and also Yuan Qi can not be restored".

 

 

Retention is not wrong when it's needed.

Yuan Qi can be restored and developed.

But not by food or celibacy.

In ancient schools retention wasn't used at all.

Celibacy can harm yin-yang balance very easily, so it's recommended to have normal healthy sex according to the age and the level of practice.

[YiYinYiYang]

.

Edited August 9, 2017 by YiYinYiYang

[Aetherous]

https://books.google.com/books?id=Ur6fAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=zong+qi+replenishes+yuan+qi&source=bl&ots=uSFTBdScPO&sig=bVSf4FBCX1EOOYTaKECjwGLBHnc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3xZYVajJIcWKsAXkyIDABg&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=zong%20qi%20replenishes%20yuan%20qi&f=false

 

Ying Qi (from spleen) and Zhong qi replenish Yuan Qi

 

u're pretty funny ClosedDao made the Zhong typo - not me.

[opendao]

Here is the translation of a question-answer with a comtemporary Longmen teacher (Tian ChengYang 田诚阳).

Sorry if the translation seems awkward, i did it quickly from a French site.

 

http://www.longmentao.com/la-pratique-taoiste/taoiste-distinguer-jing/

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Question-Answer about the two kinds of Jing

 

Question: "In the Taoist practice, when it's time to " pick the remedy "(cai yao) to transform it into a cinnabar pill (lian dan), it is important to use Qi and not Jing. What is the difference between the two?

 

Answer: "This question is important and should be clearly analyzed. You should know that Jing and Qi have a common source. Qi is the source of Jing, it turns into Jing. The Qi we are talking about is the pre-celestial Qi ,called Original Qi 元 炁 (yuan qi). After Original Qi is transformed into Jing, it is divided into two types: the first type of Jing is Original Jing 元 精 (yuan jing) which has no form and no shape, it is devoid of any Post-celestial substances. To gather it (or harvest it) allows to generate cinnabar. Alchemical texts calls it "pure water source" (qing shui yuan). The second type is the Post-celestial Jing, it is made of substance, it has a form and a shape. Alchemical texts call it " turbid water source" (chong shui yuan). With the latter type of Jing we can't generate  cinnabar. If one stubbornly tries, it will generate an "illusory cinnabar" 幻 丹 (Huan Dan) which is meant to be lost anyway.

 

Some Taoists do not know the difference between the two types of Jing. They think that to cultivate Jing is to cultivate semen, and if when there is desire semen is not emitted, it returns inside and adds to what is called a "fire of thoughts."  Not knowing that semen is a Post-celestial substance not only it will strengthen the fire, but in addition it can not be cultivated to generate Genuine Qi (zhen qi). The Wuzhen Pian 悟真 篇 (Zhang Ziyang) said: "What is visible should not be used, which that can be used should not be visible." Once semen returns inside, it goes into the bladder rather than in the Dan Tian and it will not take long before it is emitted with urine.

 

When Taoists say " cultivate Jing to change into Qi", the Jing they are talking about is the Pre-celestial Original Jing. To cultivate it and change it, means that we make the Original spirit 元 神 (yuan shen) and  the Original Qi (yuan qi) mix together and we nurture them until they freeze without dissolving and becomes the "cinnabar".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hope this can clarify some issues.

 

I hope so as well. I can only add, that "illusory elixir" is not only useless, but also dangerous for the health, and for the mental health as well. And obviously such a way leads to jing overspending. If such practice continues, people have no more possibility to start neidan.

 

p.s. your translation is good, so pls translate something else written by Tian ChengYang. It's so rare at TDB when we can read about classic Neidan approach, and not infinite deviations by illiterate inventors :-)

[JinlianPai]

direct quote please - gossip doesn't count.

 

 

 

Master Ma ChuanXu, who is one of the greatest Bagua Zhang masters alive today. During the interview he was asked about "Light Skill", below is part of the interview:

 

http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?2857-Light-Skill

 

Wow thats cool.

 

Many years ago I had a dream where I was circle walking and my feet started to leave the ground and I told my sifu at the time about that and he said that is one way to get the lightness skill.

 

Years later I learned a lightness skill that deals with cloud energy and works alot with the middle dantian.