Upper Dantian 101, please . . .

[Lataif]

How does Qigong understand the Upper Dantian (?)

 

Since consciousness, mental activity, the nervous system, and emotions are apparently considered to all be part of "Shen" and to be centered in the Middle Dantian . . . what's the nature of the Upper Dantian (?)

 

I'm inclined to do the Western division of things that centers consciousness, mental activity, and the nervous system in the Head Center . . . but that's apparently not what Qigong does.

 

So what then is the Upper Dantian all about in QiGong (?)

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

The brain is connected to the heart by some special channels

 

 

Qigong is about clearing the channels to stabilize the mind: working on Qi to put the mind at rest.

 

To open channels in the head (Upper dantian) doesn't mean to work with the Shen directly.

To cultivate Shen, you have to concentrate on the Spirit, and join the Way by mean of non-attachment and freedom.

[MooNiNite]

not sure how much you know already, but the dantiens hold energy. like batteries. then they become more refined by the surrounding energy centers. imo "upper dantien practices" are stupid. because the three are connected, so trying to skip the bottom two is pointless. its like doing 6th chakra work and cultivating psychic energy before connecting the power source. 

[Lataif]

not sure how much you know already, but the dantiens hold energy. like batteries. then they become more refined by the surrounding energy centers. imo "upper dantien practices" are stupid. because the three are connected, so trying to skip the bottom two is pointless. its like doing 6th chakra work and cultivating psychic energy before connecting the power source. 

 

But what is the difference between the nature/functionality of the Middle Dantian . . . and that of the Upper Dantian (?) What is the energy of the Upper Dantian about (?)

Edited May 14, 2015 by Lataif

[MooNiNite]

But what is the difference between the nature/functionality of the Middle Dantian . . . and that of the Upper Dantian (?) What is the energy of the Upper Dantian about (?)

 

all of the energies are about perception. your talking about intensifying concentration and potential. it is clarity. 

 

if you want it broken down (which isnt important) middle dantien is chi - it is subtle and without temperature (atleast that is the way it feels) chi has to do with daily energy and the skin. Shen has to do with personality and and concentration beyond the mind...and the halo among other things.

 

But JIng, Chi, and Shen, are lesser. they shouldn't even be considered separate. cultivating them as if they were separated only slows one down.  

[MooNiNite]

so the first dantien is vitality

the middle energy

upper spirit

 

so health - foundation

energy - activeness

spirit - personality and true direction

[exorcist_1699]

The term  'Upper Dantian '   is  , of course, head or brain related ; however , it doesn't  necessarily mean that if you start from there, you get a shortcut for achieving anything great  especially quickly . Most Taoist qigong schools advise  people to start from the 'Lower Dantian' , schools that start from the ' Upper Dantian '   belong , in fact, to the minority .

 

As the ' Lower Dantian ' is the so-called  ' source of qi ' , it is easier to get some effect or feeling  by just focusing your attention on  it . On the other hand, focusing   attention on  the 'Upper Dantian' , a place where some 'masters' claim to be at the inner depth  between  your  eyes, neither gives you  a feeling of qi  nor  help you nourish  an enlightened Mind  easier ; quite the contrary , it likely gives you   a headache  or a high blood pressure. 

 

The cause of such a mistake   is that people are always misled by the  Western brain science , which preaches  that some part of our brain is special for some function ,even having some extraordinary ability , and make a wrong comparison that Taoist quest for  ' Shen' is same as the Western one.

 

In fact, in order to achieve some higher level  of  spirit, we need something very different from just ' paying attention to '   ,   '  focusing on'  or   visualizing . Nor the ability to  do lengthy  reasoning and different levels of abstractions are what we need here  .    How to apply our mind is more important than where to apply  it  . Strangely , it is the 'skill '  of applying it  to nowhere , even not  applying it at all , is what we need to learn  about .  A no-mind  is still a mind , maybe a much greater Mind;  a way of doing nothing , being applied  to nowhere can still be a way , maybe a much greater Way (法本法無法, 無法法亦法) .

 

 

If asked about what  in Western sciences we can find things  related to or close to the  Taoist  concept of 'Shen' ,  the only area I can  think of is  Modern  Cosmology, definitely not  the part called ' Brain Science'.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by exorcist_1699

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"If asked about what  in Western sciences we can find things  related to or close to the  Taoist  concept of 'Shen' ,  the only area I can  think of is  Modern  Cosmology, definitely not  the part called ' Brain Science'."

-----

 

Excellent statement.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[voidisyinyang]

Upper tan tien does not exist until after the lower tan tien is filled up with yin qi energy.

 

So the lower tan tien is the Cavity of Spirit-Vitality.

 

The Middle Tan Tien originally is the source of Yuan Shen (left side of heart) and Yuan Qi (right side of heart). Those two energies manifest out of the eyes but the Yuan Shen goes through the front of the brain for the prefrontal cortex - and out of the eyes - and the Yuan Qi manifests out of the pineal gland - the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality.

 

The Cavity of Prenatal Vitality does not "contain the wondrous light" - meaning that the Upper Tan Tien is closed - not until the lower tan tien is filled up with the Spirit-Vitality created by focusing on the Emptiness to unite the Yuan Shen and Yuan Qi energy.

 

That energy is brought down the front channel via the tongue against the palate as upper magpie bridge - to create the lower tan tien as fire energy underneath the "Ocean of Qi" - the Yin Qi Conception Vessel - which is below the lower tan tien - and needs to be sublimated up, ionized by the Spirit-Vitality descending down.

 

So then once the lower tan tien is filled up with yin qi energy then the Mysterious Valley manifests - which is the middle tan tien opening up as a heart opening. This opening up then activates the light in the pineal gland - as the yuan qi and yuan shen have now been united and built up enough from the restoring of the yin qi energy.

 

So then yang qi manifests as yin shen - as upper tan tien energy. The upper tan tien is the manifestation of the heart energy - but the heart remains the source - the soul - as it is the origin of the Yuan Shen and Yuan Qi energies - they just manifest out of the pineal gland when unified.

 

So yeah as this progress unfolds - you can not only feel the pineal gland directly - and it is permanently magnetized as the yuan qi manifests there - but it also transduces the light energy - the spirit energy taken in from the surroundings.

 

But still the spirit-vitality energy has to be protected and continued to be built up in the lower tan tien. This is why if your spirit leaves out of the top of the skull too early - without enough qi energy surrounding it - this creates dizziness from a spacetime vortex experienced - because the shen light can bend spacetime also - it can see the future as precognition, etc.

 

So that's why the whole cosmology thing comes in because by going into the Emptiness you are dealing with the substrate of the universe as a spacetime vortex - and so not only is there precognition but also non-local communication - long distance telepathy and long distance healing, etc.

 

So for the Cavity of Original Spirit to manifest as the Upper Tan Tien - it does not necessarily have to be "fully open" - in other words as long as you just fill up the lower tan tien - as the Cavity of Spirit-Vitality - then the middle thrusting channel opens up that unifies the lower, middle and upper tan tien.

 

But to keep opening up the upper tan tien then you have to keep deepening the emptiness energy of the lower tan tien - as a deeper serenity.

 

Nevertheless by opening up the upper tan tien - this is called "laying the foundation of immortality" and it's the preface to the "real" alchemy training - converting jing to qi - or the yang jing (yin qi) to yuan qi.

 

When the third eye is fully open then a master can create yin shen spirits over and over - out of the top of their head - and so it is described as reality being holographic - they can see inside other people's bodies - and see past lives - and see things at a distance - etc.

 

But this ability is based on the yuan qi energy surrounding the spirit light - and so if they overuse their spirit light information then the qi energy can run out and the dizziness of the spacetime vortex kicks in.

 

So then more focus on the lower tan tien is necessary - as Emptiness meditation which is the process of harmonizing the "three in one" unity through the Tai Chi as complementary opposites.

 

So by turning the light around - you focus your yuan shen which normally leaves out of the eyes - you focus it back to the pineal gland which is where the yuan qi emanates out of - and that opens up the third eye Emptiness with the heart as the energy source - and then you can see auras, etc.

[Meroe]

Upper tan tien does not exist until after the lower tan tien is filled up with yin qi energy.

 

So the lower tan tien is the Cavity of Spirit-Vitality.

 

The Middle Tan Tien originally is the source of Yuan Shen (left side of heart) and Yuan Qi (right side of heart). Those two energies manifest out of the eyes but the Yuan Shen goes through the front of the brain for the prefrontal cortex - and out of the eyes - and the Yuan Qi manifests out of the pineal gland - the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality.

 

The Cavity of Prenatal Vitality does not "contain the wondrous light" - meaning that the Upper Tan Tien is closed - not until the lower tan tien is filled up with the Spirit-Vitality created by focusing on the Emptiness to unite the Yuan Shen and Yuan Qi energy.

 

That energy is brought down the front channel via the tongue against the palate as upper magpie bridge - to create the lower tan tien as fire energy underneath the "Ocean of Qi" - the Yin Qi Conception Vessel - which is below the lower tan tien - and needs to be sublimated up, ionized by the Spirit-Vitality descending down.

 

So then once the lower tan tien is filled up with yin qi energy then the Mysterious Valley manifests - which is the middle tan tien opening up as a heart opening. This opening up then activates the light in the pineal gland - as the yuan qi and yuan shen have now been united and built up enough from the restoring of the yin qi energy.

 

So then yang qi manifests as yin shen - as upper tan tien energy. The upper tan tien is the manifestation of the heart energy - but the heart remains the source - the soul - as it is the origin of the Yuan Shen and Yuan Qi energies - they just manifest out of the pineal gland when unified.

 

So yeah as this progress unfolds - you can not only feel the pineal gland directly - and it is permanently magnetized as the yuan qi manifests there - but it also transduces the light energy - the spirit energy taken in from the surroundings.

 

But still the spirit-vitality energy has to be protected and continued to be built up in the lower tan tien. This is why if your spirit leaves out of the top of the skull too early - without enough qi energy surrounding it - this creates dizziness from a spacetime vortex experienced - because the shen light can bend spacetime also - it can see the future as precognition, etc.

 

So that's why the whole cosmology thing comes in because by going into the Emptiness you are dealing with the substrate of the universe as a spacetime vortex - and so not only is there precognition but also non-local communication - long distance telepathy and long distance healing, etc.

 

So for the Cavity of Original Spirit to manifest as the Upper Tan Tien - it does not necessarily have to be "fully open" - in other words as long as you just fill up the lower tan tien - as the Cavity of Spirit-Vitality - then the middle thrusting channel opens up that unifies the lower, middle and upper tan tien.

 

But to keep opening up the upper tan tien then you have to keep deepening the emptiness energy of the lower tan tien - as a deeper serenity.

 

Nevertheless by opening up the upper tan tien - this is called "laying the foundation of immortality" and it's the preface to the "real" alchemy training - converting jing to qi - or the yang jing (yin qi) to yuan qi.

 

When the third eye is fully open then a master can create yin shen spirits over and over - out of the top of their head - and so it is described as reality being holographic - they can see inside other people's bodies - and see past lives - and see things at a distance - etc.

 

But this ability is based on the yuan qi energy surrounding the spirit light - and so if they overuse their spirit light information then the qi energy can run out and the dizziness of the spacetime vortex kicks in.

 

So then more focus on the lower tan tien is necessary - as Emptiness meditation which is the process of harmonizing the "three in one" unity through the Tai Chi as complementary opposites.

 

So by turning the light around - you focus your yuan shen which normally leaves out of the eyes - you focus it back to the pineal gland which is where the yuan qi emanates out of - and that opens up the third eye Emptiness with the heart as the energy source - and then you can see auras, etc.

 

 

Out of curiousity. what school of daoist alchemy does this derive from?

Edited May 15, 2015 by Meroe

[voidisyinyang]

That's from the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality and also my own experiences with http://springforestqigong.com

 

You can read the book online - accessible.

[Meroe]

That's from the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality and also my own experiences with http://springforestqigong.com

 

You can read the book online - accessible.

 

Much appreciated, good sir. thanks for the quick response.

[dawei]

so the first dantien is vitality

the middle energy

upper spirit

 

so health - foundation

energy - activeness

spirit - personality and true direction

 

Yes, a bit like a shell game.... Take three shells and put man between heaven and earth.

 

or like a plant: Roots develop; a stem grows; and then suddenly it blossoms...

[voidisyinyang]

 

Much appreciated, good sir. thanks for the quick response.

 

Thanks for actually reading my post - like a parachute that works.

 

An open mind.

[LAOLONG]

The dao that dao,not dao.

[dawei]

The dao that dao,not dao.

 

As Dao is supposedly the summation of That-Not...  One could say:

 

The Dao:  That Dao;  Not Dao.

 

As maybe Marblehead has rhetorically asked, is anything 'Not Dao'?   We want to answer No to suggest its singularity... but that is still keeping with duality.    

 

Door Open; Door Close; ... still a Door...

 

What does this have to do with the UDT?

 

I'll say it another way:   Window Open... Window Closed... still a Window..  

[exorcist_1699]

It is said that Taoist alchemy can be summarized into just one simple sentence :

 

"凝神入氣穴"

 

" Consolidate your mind and put it into the hole where qi arises ".

 

A consolidated Mind means a mind without fluctuations and diffusions, one that is totally different from our daily mind.

 

Of course, ' the hole where qi arises' is the place that we call it " Dantian" ; however, that many people think of a place similar to some kind of acupuncture point where if we insert needle into, massage it or focus our mind on , then qi arises... is unfortunately different from Taoist alchemical view of It.

 

Taoist definition of 'Dan' is pre-heavenly qi , a ' medicine' that gives us both physical and spiritual eternal life ; so the only place that can be called Dantian is where the pre-heavenly qi arises ; the places where ordinary / post- heavenly qi arise or flow are called acupuncture points or meridians..

 

And there is no Dantian , or at least it doesn't appear , before our having attained that consolidated , persistent mindless Mind . In fact, the presuppposition of what Dantian we will get, where it is .. is quite pointless , such a presupposition conversely blocks that ' hole of qi' from appearing .

 

Keen readers here should have noticed that any presupposition is the blockade of mindlessness.

 

Because Zen is especially good at disentangling us from those invisible spiritual frameworks, so Taoists like Zen : Any shackle puts on qi should be smashed ; if qi is accumulated, freed and becomes more delicate, then the rise of an powerful Shen is inevitable .

 

In Taoist alchemy, the concept of pre-heavenly qi is so crucial that if we can't grasp it, all magics of Taoism becomes groundless .

Edited May 19, 2015 by exorcist_1699

[Maddie]

I was wondering what happens if one does upper dan tien breathing as opposed to lower dan tien breathing?

[freeform]

12 hours ago, dmattwads said:

I was wondering what happens if one does upper dan tien breathing as opposed to lower dan tien breathing?

 

Depends who you are and what conditions you've developed.

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Depends who you are and what conditions you've developed.

 

I suppose that's a good answer LOL

[freeform]

2 hours ago, dmattwads said:

I suppose that's a good answer LOL

 

Well - it's just one of those things... the result could be anything from nothing to a headache, to crazy hallucinations to the bright light of your original self...it's a broad range

Edited January 20, 2021 by freeform

[Sketch]

4 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Well - it's just one of those things... the result could be anything from nothing to a headache, to crazy hallucinations to the bright light of your original self...it's a broad range

I can make my vision fuzzy! 

 

(Using another bit from Emilie Conrad's book)

Edited January 20, 2021 by Sketch

[Creation]

18 hours ago, dmattwads said:

I was wondering what happens if one does upper dan tien breathing as opposed to lower dan tien breathing?

In the Daoist material I am familiar with, actual lower dantian breathing is not an entry level technique - prerequisites must be in place.  Among them, both the motion associated with breathing and the center of elastic tension in the body must be anchored in the lower abdomen.  Now, these qualities can be in place even while the mind is paying attention to something else, for instance you per your question you could be attending to some aspect of the head and what sensations arise in connection with the breath at that location, while this anchoring in the lower abdomen persists.

 

The other thing that seems relevant to say is that the entry level upper dantian techniques I'm aware of focus yintang (midbrow) rather than deep in the center of the head.

[thelerner]

18 hours ago, dmattwads said:

I was wondering what happens if one does upper dan tien breathing as opposed to lower dan tien breathing?

I am certainly no expert but found when doing a meditation system by Spotless, you began breathing with a focus on the middle of the head (not 3rd eye).  Stayed there til comfortable, then moved on and ended, wisely, at the lower dan tien.  

 

In the past I hadn't done much focus on the head.  My early readings tended to warn against it, ie don't accumulate energy there it could get stuck.  Anyhow, I found with increased focus (at the start) on the upper dan tien, my energy and body seemed to run cooler.  When I'd be 100% on the lower dan tien, seemed my energy and body ran hotter.  

[Limahong]

4 minutes ago, thelerner said:

 

I found with increased focus (at the start) on the upper dan tien, my energy and body seemed to run cooler. 

When I'd be 100% on the lower dan tien, seemed my energy and body ran hotter.

 

 

 

Hi Michael,

 

 

From hotter moving up to cooler?

 

- Anand