johndoe2012 Posted May 18, 2015 Yeah lots of illusions like the illusion of being in control. I thought I didn't care about money then they stopped coming in and the body mind freaked out. Nice cleansing there. Life will take care of us but not as we imagine it to be. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted May 18, 2015 And while it is true that one can sit fine on a wooden box, it is more comfortable sitting in a recliner. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) @Amoyaan: awesome post. You brought me one step closer. It is like we are the caretakers of the things we hold. Imagine the selfless virtue one could attain if one were to practice the behavior of non-ownership..I know the way to deal with the gobblers of the world, the 1%ers....feed them and feed them with compassion until they've had enough and break down in tears at what they have become. Then you help them stand up and move on. Remember the scene in Spirited Away, where no-face comes in and starts gluttonously gorging? We are all like No Face when we come into this world, and soon take on the faces of those around us.... Edited May 18, 2015 by Songtsan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yasjua Posted May 18, 2015 Actually, I did a similar thing for several years. I abandoned concern for my body, I refused work of all sorts in full faith that the Universe would give to me what I needed, etc. The God I was experiencing never missed a beat. Any time I needed or wanted anything, so long as it pertained to my spiritual growth, it would just appear. I skipped work one day because it was draining my spirit to work menial labor for small money, and got gently rear-ended by some fellow who gave me $800 not to claim insurance. I let my bank account disintegrate to $0.34 - instead of worrying I just realized that the entire Universe was still available to me and I knew more money would come. I woke up the next day with $1500 in my bank account - a "forgotten" grant from an institution I went to years ago. I showed up in a new city and was given accommodations immediately. When those didn't work out, I stepped out onto my porch and a woman walked up to me, chatted with me for a few minutes, and invited me to come meet her roommates and move into her house. That worked out as well. I allowed my resources to vanish again, even spending two months rent on a cello that I ended up giving away to a grandmother. More would come, and indeed, I was invited on an all-expenses paid trip to the middle east where I spent the next three months taken care of by families and meeting sufis and energy workers. And then when it was time to take a flight back to the states, I refused to pack my bags - my time hadn't come. So I didn't pack. I knew I wouldn't have to go anywhere. The next day Lufthansa went on strike - my flight was cancelled and I was given the option to reschedule any time in the next three months. What someone said above is true, however. This was only one side of the coin. Today I put in full effort, full personal responsibility, and aspire to ambitions only I can manifest - but my experiences with the other side of the coin allow me to approach the path with total confidence. At first I surrendered to All, now I move and the All keeps up. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted May 18, 2015 I have heard so many stories such as this. Truly the universe will provide when it is needed...if you try to game the system, stealing from the government and people, then you will be left to survive in your game, without assistance. If you move on from that, you will have a mavelous time too. As long as you keep putting out energy, you will take in energy. If you just take in energy, sooner or later, energy will do the reverse and leave you.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted May 19, 2015 I have heard so many stories such as this. Truly the universe will provide when it is needed...if you try to game the system, stealing from the government and people, then you will be left to survive in your game, without assistance. If you move on from that, you will have a mavelous time too. As long as you keep putting out energy, you will take in energy. If you just take in energy, sooner or later, energy will do the reverse and leave you.... Sadly the universe will treat us humans impartially, kinda like a straw dogs; wonderful yet discardable.. the universe will let you starve and keep going without missing a beat. (sadly, imo, and from mass reports of starvation around the world.) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Its hard to say, when reincarnation is in play. Who is to say that today's starving children aren't yesterday's villains who raped the countries they now live in?...it is about the energy you put out coming back to you, one way or another....that is a universal law. Equal, opposing forces coming back at one. The bodies are straw dogs, but the essential beings inside them are not...its one hell of a ride! Edited May 19, 2015 by Songtsan 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) one former talented bum long ago banned i reckon, ((not sure why, i missed the entire episode,,anyways)) his signature said something along the line of; "those things you (think you) own , end up owning you" Edited June 2, 2015 by zerostao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 2, 2015 "those things you (think you) own , end up owning you" But I would argue with that because there are conditions where we own stuff but we do not form emotional attachments with them. Sure, I have an attachment to my music collection. But all I have to do is pull two plugs and head for the door. Everything else I consider of value can be replaced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted June 3, 2015 I'm reading a book by a Japanese woman and her goal is to honestly love every item that you have. This tends to mean getting rid of 1/2 to 3/4 of all possessions. She gets very anthropomorphic about her things. Putting items away neatly and thanking them sincerely each day. That might be the best approach. Whether you have much or little. Each possession special and loved, yet also held lightly enough to bless and say goodbye to once its purpose is fulfilled. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 3, 2015 We dont really own anything ... we just use things for a while ... or leave them lying around and dont want others to use them. But people cant get that. Where I live has a 'no ownership of land' policy. Probably, in the near 30 years I have been here , and the many people that have been through the place or still live here, about 4 of them have got it ... even though they consciously thought that they wanted 'no ownership'. A big jump in our evolution could be had, if we could get over the concept that we can own another person ( that one has always got me ). 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 3, 2015 I like that there no land ownership thing. Outback is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 4, 2015 I like that there no land ownership thing. Outback is it? No, you cannot have my land. I own it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 4, 2015 I like that there no land ownership thing. Outback is it? No, its a beautiful riverside multiple occupancy property in a lush subtropical coastal valley surrounded by rainforest, escarpment, waterfalls, and pristine world heritage area national park . There is ownership (company title Ltd. ) , but no private ownership, its restricted from land speculation, so you cant 'build and invest' just by speculating on land value, just build live and enjoy cheaply. It cant be passed on to anyhting that isnt similar, and can only be run as a non prophet enterprise. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 4, 2015 No, you cannot have my land. I own it. Do you now? Some people thought that here too and had all the paperwork and legality to prove it ... God bless you Marbles and may, even the shadow of, what happened to some of them never darken your outer far perimeter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 4, 2015 Yknow , theres places nobody claims ! Where you can start a country. ( if your neighbors let you) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 4, 2015 Do you now? Some people thought that here too and had all the paperwork and legality to prove it ... God bless you Marbles and may, even the shadow of, what happened to some of them never darken your outer far perimeter. No worry. I am willing to die for what I believe is right just as I was for twenty years in the Army. One may kill me but one can never kill my truth. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 4, 2015 No worry. I am willing to die for what I believe is right just as I was for twenty years in the Army. One may kill me but one can never kill my truth. Killing you would kill your truth. "ownership of land' is basically an agreed upon right of exclusion. If everyone else disagrees, your ownership has no existence.Your anarchy is in conflict with your property. People 'own' thousands of acres , and nobody else is allowed to even walk on it. The places where you can actually go without the nod of some other entity is extremely narrow. Wanna see how narrow? try to find a place where you can just go , without granted permissions, build a little campfire ,shelter , and kill a rabbit. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 4, 2015 Killing you would kill your truth. No. The truth would still exist as long as there is anyone who remembers what happened. "ownership of land' is basically an agreed upon right of exclusion. If everyone else disagrees, your ownership has no existence. As long as my sword is in my hand my ownership would still exist. But yes, my ownership is in accordance with conditions set by everyone else. They cannot be against my ownership and yet claim their own ownership. Your anarchy is in conflict with your property. No. My anarchy is that I will not infringe on the rights of others. But it also includes that others will not infringe on mine. People 'own' thousands of acres , and nobody else is allowed to even walk on it. So buy some of it. Then it will be yours. And anything can be bought if the price is right. The places where you can actually go without the nod of some other entity is extremely narrow. Wanna see how narrow? try to find a place where you can just go , without granted permissions, build a little campfire ,shelter , and kill a rabbit. There are still some around. There used to be a lot more until humans over-populated the Earth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 4, 2015 No. The truth would still exist as long as there is anyone who remembers what happened. That would be ' what they thought was true, thats the YOUR part of your truth. As long as my sword is in my hand my ownership would still exist. Thats just you excluding But yes, my ownership is in accordance with conditions set by everyone else. They cannot be against my ownership and yet claim their own ownership. Happens all the time , I don't have to respect your property to covet my own. No. My anarchy is that I will not infringe on the rights of others. But it also includes that others will not infringe on mine. Rights are a collective idea, you have no guaranteed certainty that no one will claim your stuff. ex eminent domain. So buy some of it. Then it will be yours. And anything can be bought if the price is right. That land is unclaimed , there's no one to buy it from , you have to take possession of it. There are still some around. There used to be a lot more until humans over-populated the Earth. like where? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Yknow , theres places nobody claims ! Where you can start a country. ( if your neighbors let you) floating icebergs are less of an option now due to global warming. i hold a "deed" free and clear, but i have to pay my property taxes each year or else i could lose it i reckon, "ownership" is just another way the state has a way to extract money from us. i can camp in the national forest if i like. but i dont "own" my cottage.it has its own spirit. Edited June 4, 2015 by zerostao 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 4, 2015 floating icebergs are less of an option now due to global warming. i hold a "deed" free and clear, but i have to pay my property taxes each year or else i could lose it i reckon, "ownership" is just another way the state has a way to extract money from us. i can camp in the national forest if i like. but i dont "own" my cottage.it has its own spirit. Yeah, Icebergs are less of an option. But If you google unclaimed land theres some spots in miserable places like antarctica. Camping in National forests is still subject to all sorts of rules.. as is marbleheads house. He has to pay taxes maintain it , theres things he cant do, people he cant legally exclude, permission needed to build things store things etc etc. Your cottage only remains exempt due to relative secrecy , I assume. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 4, 2015 You can be dismissive , but the point I was making is that which someone calls their land , doesn't make them supreme authority there. Having exclusive rights to this land is primarily exclusionary, which means that you infringe on other peoples ability to be on this land . There's a place near me which has a huge chunk of property , they got it a long long time ago , and they don't let anyone on it . I wanted to go there and check out some birds, but Im not allowed, and then I looked around and see that the US is all subdivided. There are little channels of public ground called roads you can drive on ,but you just go from one owned place to another , there are some wilder places , but they too are subject to all sorts of restrictions. Ones behavior and ones freedom to just go somewhere uninvited is very limited. You can go to stores , but you cant say there, you can go to parks , but you cant start a campfire except for a few predetermined spots , you cant catch food or make use of resources. The same kinds of limitations also apply to personal property. Ones ownership of anything really just amounts to cooperation about exclusionary rights which one may pay to have and may also be paid to transfer. The thread is about not owning anything anymore, and I am talking about what owning is. That which Nungali is describing is interesting, its a rather different paradigm. There is ownership (company title Ltd. ) , but no private ownership, its restricted from land speculation, so you cant 'build and invest' just by speculating on land value, just build live and enjoy cheaply. It cant be passed on to anything that isnt similar, and can only be run as a non profit enterprise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 4, 2015 Yes, I can be dismissive. Your argument had no substance. It is historical fact that there must be restrictions else the people who visit will trash the place. If people haven't made a personal investment in property they will not care for it and in a lot of cases they will intentionally trash it. Just look at Detroit. Same way with the public lands in the US. People trashed the parks so the government had to create the Park Service in order to stop the trashing. Freedom means you work for what you get. There ain't no free lunches. Somebody has to pay for them. If all one want to do is get and give nothing in return they will eventually be told to hit the road. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
