The reality of Max Christensen

[Guest winpro07]

I highly recomend going. I have been through so many stages since october. My body is hollow, and light now. The source flows through the emptiness i am. It's like all the power of everything. My eyes see energy. The energy, or source of all is like a song. It is music flowing out of all bodies in differnt form -saying the same thing forever Ha ha ha.......like anybody is going to get this!? It doesn't matter why we go. Bliss is enough, right? The real reward is getting back to our true nature. Finding what we lost. Kunlun is the catalyst. I say go

Edited June 25, 2008 by winpro07

[talkinghead]

Okay! My name is Tom Flanagan if I see you there.

[talkinghead]

Sorry another question Mantra:

 

I've just started doing the first stage of Kunlun practice. My question is what I should be doing with my mind during the meditation. The only instruction on this that I saw in the book was to "Have a child-like mind about the practice". I think that I've been doing that, but during the hour I'm still tempted to focus my mind on a single point or focus my awareness on energy running up my spine into my head or back down into my base.

 

Anyway, since I don't believe this was dealt with in the book I imagine its not very important at this point.. I just want to make sure I'm not counteracting the practice if I start focusing my mind in certain patterns during the exercise.

 

Thanks!

[Yoda]

In case Mantra doesn't respond: it's my understanding that there is no technique for the mind, just let it go where ever it wants.

[Sahaj Nath]

Sorry another question Mantra:

 

I've just started doing the first stage of Kunlun practice. My question is what I should be doing with my mind during the meditation. The only instruction on this that I saw in the book was to "Have a child-like mind about the practice". I think that I've been doing that, but during the hour I'm still tempted to focus my mind on a single point or focus my awareness on energy running up my spine into my head or back down into my base.

 

Anyway, since I don't believe this was dealt with in the book I imagine its not very important at this point.. I just want to make sure I'm not counteracting the practice if I start focusing my mind in certain patterns during the exercise.

 

Thanks!

 

 

actually, i think you might be counteracting some of the practice if you keep trying to "do" something with your mind. especially if you're trying to guide energy up the spine or something of that sort. you can just pay attention to your breath, but other than that you should make no assumptions about what will or should happen. don't try to control the unfolding of the process. let it do whatever it does. it just might surprise you.

 

everyone is tempted to "do" something extra when they approach practices that call for non-action. the best thing you can "do" is "get out of the way" of the natural unfolding.

 

that's my take, anyway.

[Mantra68]

actually, i think you might be counteracting some of the practice if you keep trying to "do" something with your mind. especially if you're trying to guide energy up the spine or something of that sort. you can just pay attention to your breath, but other than that you should make no assumptions about what will or should happen. don't try to control the unfolding of the process. let it do whatever it does. it just might surprise you.

 

everyone is tempted to "do" something extra when they approach practices that call for non-action. the best thing you can "do" is "get out of the way" of the natural unfolding.

 

that's my take, anyway.

You got it Hundy.

 

The mind is ideally distracted by music or cartoons or something else while you do your practice. If you are without external distraction just focus on breathing freely into the heart and try to FEEEEEEEL what is in there.

 

Scary I know, but it is better to put you mind there than other places. Eventually you might realize you have fallen into the feeling mode and then the real understanding of your energetic state can be understood.

 

Becoming sensitized to feeling the subtle energies is key to all of this.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Mantra68

[Spectrum]

Buddy, yes completely spontaneously.

 

 

"Please... ? Research your remarks. There are instances of isolation."

 

But taught freely without regard to anyone's "shit." And while they may have meditated, none were involved in practices involving gaining special powers. Unless you count Jesus' walking on the water and raising the dead. Even that (allegedly) came spontaneously.

[Spectrum]

Bump Bump, Presence.

Small Sways, Lil' Gyrays

Stand and Weigh Sway Play

Softer Now That's All I'll Say

Whispering Winds Wandering Waters

A Seafarers Bouquet Inside Yonder

Surrendered To the Islands Daughter

Presents of Mind Under Wonder

[talkinghead]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Okay; I'll try and just kep an open mind. I've gotten used to doing something when I sit for meditation.

 

If I'm allowed to delve into the feelings coming up in my body then it sounds like that will give my mind something to do without closing it off to anything spontanous. This will be nice.. I have not done it much, but I heard another person rave about this as a "water method" meditation by itself. At the least it sounds much more grounding then just awakening fire.

 

 

The book recommends an hour of this practice. Do you think its okay to split it into 2 half hour sessions or is one sit preferred?

Edited June 27, 2008 by talkinghead

[Trunk]

I've gotten used to doing something when I sit for meditation.

 

If I'm allowed to delve into the feelings coming up in my body then it sounds like that will give my mind something to do without closing it off to anything spontanous.

A basic key is the breath (as has already been mentioned). If you follow the sensation of your breath going into your body and follow it all the way into your lower abdomen, then out again... that gives your mind something to latch onto. Plus it is a method of activating, blending, harmonizing your upper~middle~lower body. It allows the feelings etc to open, be felt, and to process.

 

Also, the breath is a marker, a notification, of when you are shutting off from your inner process. If your breathing becomes shallow, then your body is clenching, shutting off to the inner process. So, then you just resume breathing comfortably deeply all the way through. (There are advanced states where the breath stops, but that is felt as very rich and full and open, not as shutting off.)

[Junbao]

Trunk,

 

Since your talking about following the breath...if you don't mind a question?

 

My breathing sometimes seems to get more tense than relaxed when I focus on it. I am able to breath deep into my lower body, belly and back expand, but when I follow it, I latch onto it too much and it becomes more of an effort than a natural happening. It's hard to balance the two.

I have read that the in breath is more yang (active), and so it's hard to relax on the inhale. The out breath is more yin (passive) and so it is easier to relax at this point.

For me, I can feel a bit of restriction in my middle dan tien area, air flows fine in upper chest, and relaxed in belly.

 

Any tips? Thanks!

[Sahaj Nath]

 

Any tips? Thanks!

 

yeah. stick with it and eventually you will be able to relax. if it takes practice, then it takes practice.

 

yin and yang are relative terms and are therefore context specific. BUT, as a general rule, the in breath is generally considered yin, and the out breath is yang. the more you relax into your body, the more you will realize that naturally.

 

don't be in a rush. bounce and shake for a good 10 minutes before your sit down for the practice. dropping post and trembling horse, if you're familiar with those exercises. if not, just make it look like a native indian dance. have some fun with it. it'll loosen you up.

 

if you have a tendency to latch on too much and make it an effort, nows the time to break that habit. lucky for you that you know what the task is. put in the time. things are only difficult until they're not anymore.

 

you've probably been a shallow breather for the better part of your life. seems to be sort of a quiet desperation in the mind needing to do something so badly that it can't even passively follow the breath. layers of tension that you're probably not even aware of yet. you need a seated practice.

 

it one of the best things you can do for yourself. stick with it. it may even get frustrating and aggravating at times, but stick with it. the nervous system will eventually ease up and relax. and release. and that alone can be blissful.

[jaloo]

Excellent post Hundun. Its a stressful day at work and you reminded me to breathe and bliss for a while.

 

Thanks.

[Junbao]

Thanks Hundun!

[Trunk]

In addition to the good advice already given...

My breathing sometimes seems to get more tense than relaxed when I focus on it. I am able to breath deep into my lower body, belly and back expand, but when I follow it, I latch onto it too much and it becomes more of an effort than a natural happening. It's hard to balance the two.

There are all sorts of different breathing methods.

 

"Deep into my lower body, belly and back expand" seems to indicate some Taoist (or perhaps from another tradition) lower abdominal breathing, and that's a more difficult long term project to get that totally smooth. That's not what I'm referring to when I mention "follow the breath".

 

By "follow the breath" I mean to just breathe in a comfortably deep and relaxed way, and following the flow of air from the top to the bottom and then back out again. No attempt to expand this or that part of the body to particularly massage bodily tissues. Just comfortably, naturally deep. Not forced like "I've got to get the breath all the way in there 100%!".

 

One way to practice this is several times a day, at work. Just several times a day, notice if your breathing is shallow or comfortably deeper. If it's shallow, simply breath deeper. Not forced, not like it has to go deep to a certain place. Just whatever bit is easy and smooth for you. Then go back to whatever you were doing and don't worry about it. Just check that out several times a day. Don't attempt to have it all the time nor to any sort of standard about the perfect depth or whatever.

 

Taoist lower abdominal breathing is too much to do during kunlun. What I meant is just relaxed comfortably deep breathing including attention.

 

cheers,

Trunk

[Junbao]

Thanks Trunk! That's just what I needed!

Really great help here from everyone. I'm sure it will help my Kunlun practice as well as in daily life.

[talkinghead]

2 Questions:

 

1) During the 3 months of celibacy required in Kunlun; is all sexual stimulation of any kind meant to be avoided? Sorry but I need to be clear on this before I start, my girlfriend is not making this easy.

 

2) What is Red Phoenix practice?

 

Thank you!

[Patrick Brown]

I highly recomend going. I have been through so many stages since october. My body is hollow, and light now. The source flows through the emptiness i am. It's like all the power of everything. My eyes see energy. The energy, or source of all is like a song. It is music flowing out of all bodies in differnt form -saying the same thing forever Ha ha ha.......like anybody is going to get this!? It doesn't matter why we go. Bliss is enough, right? The real reward is getting back to our true nature. Finding what we lost. Kunlun is the catalyst. I say go

I understand but more importantly do you? Using a technique to flick the switch is one thing understanding what you're actually doing is another. I'm not trying to dis Max or anybody here all I'm asking is do people realise what they are doing? Potency often means there's more chance of difficulties down the line. And it has already been stated that Max pretty much sits on the edge of discarding all attachments to the physical plane. You can't come back once you've jumped!

 

It's also worth remembering that you can suffer severe depression when you return from the bliss. Maybe not now maybe not next year but it will come. For some people it might be using a whole rounds worth of bliss in one life time. It's all pretty much an individual thing which is why care should be taken. It's similar to an intense passionate love affair in that if you get in too deep you may get burnt.

 

I may as well make a sweeping statement here seeing that so many like to put Max on a pedestal! Nirvanic bliss is not enlightenment, knowing about the bliss is simply the beginning of learning to live with it or how to flow/dance with it.

 

I'm sure Max's system is right for some people just make sure it's right for you.

[Ormus]

Dear all,

 

I have some questions:

 

1.What is Maxs Daoisti lineages?

I see he mention Mao Shan and reference to Shang Qing Pai and Kunlun Shan.There is Kunlun Pai in China and Taiwan and few Redemption societys and Spirit writing cults under that name so I need clarification.

2.What is Red Phoenix practice?

3.What is Golden Dragon body?Did he see this realisation as Tian Xian level or it is diferent?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

All the best,

 

Ormus

[KenBrace]

Kunlun is fake and cannot be taken seriously in my opinion. It's just another stumbling block for newbies.

 

[thelerner]

I'm no expert, I went to one of his seminars many years ago <I don't know if his teachings have changed over the years>.   A few of the senior bums had been to earlier seminars and reported favorably.  Later on it was fascinating to read about people's experiences with it on a dedicated forum, which unfortunately was taken down after a few years. 

 

If lineage is important I wouldn't go the Max Christensen route.  His system is simple, influenced by Jenny Lambs. If your looking for historic roots, good luck. Its a system of simple spontaneous qi gong.  Most of it is hit the position, stay there, let movements come spontaneously, sit and come down afterwards.   His book teaches it.  Going to a seminar deepens and helps 'empower' it. 

 

For some it takes them pretty deep.  People reported some amazing effects from it.   Its a very 'be your own guru' kind of practice.   Other then seminars, which were reasonably priced (imo I paid $300 for 3 days) he didn't really sell or preach anything, though his stories I took with several grains of salt.  Max is definitely a fascinating character. 

 

In my limited expertise, the man's got juice.  The seminar I went to took place in a dojo, and Max did some casual push hands kind of stuff.  His pose, his power, the little I experienced of it seemed real to me.  His transmission didn't particularly effect me, though it did others, it was the little martial cross hands I did with him, impressed me greatly, and that was just for fun. 

 

Red Phoenix is a secondary exercise, one that works with the upper dantien (center brain) area.  Very simple, but working in that area is potentially hazardous so its only taught by those who've gone to seminars.  Its not particularly dramatic, but for people who are sensitive such exercises should be done with caution.  I never got into it, and am cautious of working purely with that area, being an old time aikidoist where its all about the lower dantien. 

 

Golden Dragon body is some sort of ultra rare super high state of body/spirit transformation that 99.99% don't have to worry about.

 

I never got the bliss many others reported, but it fills a hole in training.  I have systems for sitting, standing; I know a few qi gong routines, but Kunlun is a different animal.   Mainly you sit in a position that brings a certain tension which brings about  spontaneous movements.  Its not a main practice of mine, but when I'm up late, I'll do it in the washroom.  Hit the position and my body moves without conscious control and releases tension, physical, mental, spiritual(?). 

Edited June 3, 2015 by thelerner

[soaring crane]

I remember suggesting years and years ago in one of these threads that Soaring Crane qigong (He Xian Zhuang) is specifically designed to prepare the practitioner for safe expression of spontaneous qigong (Zifagong). One of the strictest rules of He Xian is that you do not start the Zifa without a minimum of six months steady practice of the base forms. And you don't do it alone.

 

I believe, based on a lot of experience, that jumping into spontaneous practice without a solid base is physically, mentally and spiritually very risky. And doubly so for the kind of people who are strongly attracted to it. Maybe the more one feels drawn to this kind of practice, the slower one should proceed.

[thelerner]

I've also heard Jenny Lambs method is similar and safer.  The problems I've heard about Max from some members isn't that it doesn't work, but that it can be too much and open you up to bad things.  And there may be no one available to help you.  Its probably a rarity, but its enough that people should proceed carefully if at all, especially if they're energy sensitive. 

 

With any of these energy practices, if things get strange, slow it down or stop. 

[Aetherous]

It's good to think of Shangqing Daoism as being the sect that deals with receiving revelations (as can be seen from the wikipedia)...mediumship is where their texts came from. Many Kunlun people know that their dreams change after beginning, they have personal insights into the path that come out of nowhere, they sometimes deal with other beings and have visionary experiences, etc. It's kind of mysterious and not logical...so that is why: because it's part of Shangqing. Not that the Kunlun school is representative of Shangqing as a whole by any means, but it's one part that came from that school of Daoism, and it's good to realize that the practices work the way they do because of that. Specifically, the Kunlun stuff is based around mudras and sometimes visualization...so we can be pretty sure that it's a later addition to Daoism coming from Buddhism's influence. And I suppose within the Shangqing school there were various branches of training...perhaps some were alchemical...I don't know. But whatever they are, the overarching theme would likely be: personal revelation.

In the Kunlun school, the main purpose is the gold dragon body, which is like the rainbow body except you don't shrink and leave only your fingernails etc...you're still a normal person. You just sometimes experience your body vanishing, as can be seen very well with Kan on their website (if those photos aren't doctored). That's one goal a person can have, and while it's interesting, it's not amazing. Something more amazing in my opinion is mind training from Buddhism, which has the potential to change a personality completely into a benevolent force. Becoming a good person, and dealing effectively with life, is impressive. What's the point of momentarily fading out of material existence, if you're not a good person? If you still get bitterly angry when someone wrongs you (as I'm well acquainted with personally)? Then it becomes like a parlor trick (if other people can even notice it). I think the gold dragon body effect actually depends on being highly virtuous, as well...so likely that the effect doesn't even take place so long as the practitioner is trying to have it happen for poor reasons.

 

Furthermore...I view the Kunlun methods as being like gently opening Pandora's box. "Opening up" is a good thing, since any form of attachment aversion or ignorance indicates mental poison, as opposed to equanimity acceptance and awareness for instance, which are good qualities. But not everything that you open up to is good. Then it becomes about how you deal with it, which was the theme of this one thread from back in the day. And it's also why I moved on to fully positive practices. No use in being afraid of the dark side of the force, but do you want to spend all your time in there? Better to go hang out with the Jedi council after having been there and done that.

Just my ideas at the moment.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Aetherous