My theory on the 11:11 phenomenon

[Michael Sternbach]

To me, it looks like a depiction of Hercules ... note the club.  Here we have the opposite of how the woman seems to be dealing with the lion. A type of  'Brute Strength'.  

 

Yes, that seems to be Hercules battling the Nemean lion.

 

IMO the  Hercules myth demonstrates a failure of the journey;  considering the story and what ends up happening.   The  Shamanic journey is one of acceptance ; it would depict more of a 'taming' of the lion, or even a devouring by the lion. The Shaman does not see his 'transformers' as a threat to be subdued with a club.   IMO the myth shows the failure of trying to navigate through the mythological world using the vehicle of the ego. *

 

Interesting comparison.

 

' Domination by manly virtue' , yes, that is a good phrase. 

 

'Depends on the outlook of the author' - indeed !   If one is using one's tarot 'spiritually' or as an 'esoteric knowledge input', one better choose the 'right' deck for oneself. 

 

 

* a further example of this is seen in the 'modern shamanic journey' , say a UFO abduction; the experience seems passive, the person often in a type of hypnotic state, not happy about it,, but compliant, often 'against their will', but you never hear in these stories; " So I jumped off the table, kicked the probe out of his hand and punched him in the face."

 

Thats the 'ego hero' ....  the 'manly virtue'   .... it does happen in mythology (and boasting      )   and fiction, and because of the nature of our usual consciousness, those type of guys are pop and a 'hero'

 

 

 

Even when the "monster" is sluggish and clumsy...

Edited June 10, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Brian]

Let's not forget your annual card, Sonnyboy:

 

Trump VII, The Chariot:

 

 

The time until your next birthday should have an atmosphere of departure to it. There is something new that you set out for. The card also often speaks of physical travelling.

Very interesting! There are some real possibilities right now surrounding changing houses, changing towns, changing jobs -- and perhaps all three. One of the possibilities also includes considerably more travel on a daily basis. I am also striving to commit more time to my qigong certification, which will require significant travel as well. (I say "striving" because the Tao has a way of throwing curveballs just to keep me on me humble.) So, in terms of physical travel as well as "home" location changes, I think this fits pretty nicely.

 

It resonates on a different level, too. For the last few months, the several-year-long energetic expansion and condensation I have been experiencing has both been accelerating and shifting, bending in ways I would never have anticipated. I have come to understand things about "myself" and about "reality" which I would have considered lunacy a few years ago and these understandings have balanced me at a personal fulcrum. Just this week, I realized that I have actually tipped across an inflection point and my gradient now points in a significantly different direction than it had for the last 20+ years, a direction I wouldn't have imagined. On an energetic and purpose/mission/destiny/karma/calling/whatever basis, I am already departing from familiar territory into what is, for me, an undiscovered country -- in addition to the likely physical departures hinted at in the first paragraph above.

 

BTW, I somehow overlooked post #113 -- it was as if it were invisible to me until you called it to my attention this afternoon.

[Michael Sternbach]

I meant tropical modern astrology  not western tropical astrology ... you know, that 'Leo fellow'  post GD.   ( He was post GD wasn't he ? ) 

 

Yes, you could say that. Leo started getting involved with astrology around the time when the GD was founded. At the time his influence unfolded, the GD (in its original form) had already gone down the drain.

 

Ummmm   .... it is ?    Oh ... * 

 

Like all post-Ptolemy and pre-Theosophist Occidental Astrology, to my knowledge.

 

Also, we must be careful not to confuse the Sidereal Zodiac with the zodiacal constellations.

 

Even Crowley lists things in the Book of Thoth siderally.   Some will say Knight of Cups is Pisces in the Thoth deck.  Thothites will correct them ;  " Ahem ...  20 deg Aquarius to 20 deg Pisces ! "

 

But the table on BoT says ; 20 deg Aquarius to 20 deg Pisces including most of Pegasus .  ... and the Knight of Wands, part of  Hercules .....   but

 

Are you sure it's in the BoT? I searched it in PDF format but didn't find this.

 

*    yeah, sorry ... I just found it an interesting side line  ..... I will restrain my comments to    11:11       

 

There can be well-founded exceptions, to be sure.

 

Of course, for questions regarding the decans per say, we have our special thread as of late.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[gergelim]

I'm more of a 22 kind of guy.

[Nungali]

Even when the "monster" is sluggish and clumsy...

 

 

... and the alien is even worse !

[Nungali]

Yes, you could say that. Leo started getting involved with astrology around the time when the GD was founded. At the time his influence unfolded, the GD (in its original form) had already gone down the drain.

 

 

Like all post-Ptolemy and pre-Theosophist Occidental Astrology, to my knowledge.

 

One would think so     .... but ...

 

Also, we must be careful not to confuse the Sidereal Zodiac with the zodiacal constellations.

 

Oh, I haven't confused   them  ,  but I feel they 'should' be joined  ( its a simple matter, on line nowadays, to cast a 'sidereal' chart   that has aspects to fixed stars )  but ....   see below.

 

 

Are you sure it's in the BoT? I searched it in PDF format but didn't find this.

 

 

besides its ....  in the GD book .... of course ...  where did you think the old boy .... lifted it from.

 

(scuse the dots .... I am typing in time ....  to Annie .... 

 

PS. check the bird  .... in the clip      )

 

 

There can be well-founded exceptions, to be sure.

 

Of course, for questions regarding the decans per say, we have our special thread as of late.

 

 

....  see ya there. 

 

 

Great card work by the way   

[Nikolai1]

Hi Michael

Despite the unpredictability this card brings with it, its affiliation with Jupiter overall suggests a serendipitious relationship, with much potential for spiritual expansion and growth.

Yes definitely - I often say I practice three yogas: meditation, philosophy, and my wife!  I think without her I would be a prime candidate for disappearing into emptiness.  On a day by day basis she makes me see that spiritually is 'on earth as it is in heaven'.  That the 'mundane' world is not mundane and shouldn't be neglected.  And from her perspective, I bring a transcendent view and creative possibility.  I am not 'bogged down' by the way things always work, convention etc.

 

But, of course, on a day by day basis we are not always fully conscious of each other's merits and we still revert to type and have to experience tensions and disputes.  I often wonder whether we encapsulate quite well the different spiritual style of the two genders in general? Mother Earth and Father Heaven! What do you think?

 

Your wife has The Sun as her shadow card.   And the Sun represents one's innermost self and individuality. This seems to be submerged to some degree here, and making it more available would require awareness-raising measures.

This is fascinating because I've definitely noticed her 'shadow' in the Jungian sense.  When people disagree with her, for example colleagues, she often criticises them for being 'uncritical', 'unreflective', 'conventional' etc. But if she were more reflective herself, she would see that her opponents are offering quite valid points of view, that are just different.  She projects her own weaknesses onto others and then criticises them, and this happens on a day by day basis.  She is not conscious of this at all, and I think it would be quite painful for her to consciously encounter her shadow: that she is not as much of a critical, reflective individual as she likes to think.

 

But of course this is a very Jungian analysis, I don't how if Tarot uses the term shadow in the same way?

 

The materialist sees symbols necessarily as purely psychological and derived from external reality. By contrast, the esoteric (essentially Platonic) view considers them (or, more precisely, the Archetypes that they represent) the primary factors underlying both internal and external reality.

One of the big criticisms of the Platonic ideas is how plurality can exist in a timeless/spaceless dimension.  Perhaps the archetypes only appear to those whose consciousness is basically rooted in a kind of formless realm which then imbues the world of form with a noumenal atmosphere.

 

For me, and In my experience, we start to notice  the archetypal nature of people and symbols at a time when our raw experience is also transformed.  The colour of the grass, the blue of the sky may not have any particular symbolic meaning, but still they are perceived with a bright, vivid aliveness.  Water, for me, has completely transformed in nature and appearance.  So its against this basic noumenal perceptual backdrop that specific psychoid forms start to impress us with their significance.

 

Since the Archetypes are underlying and constituting everything that exists, they cannot be truly irrelevant for anybody. However, I would agree that the degree of their recognition and expression can vary from one individual to another.

How would you help someone to increase their 'recognition and expression'? 

 

Your wife seems to be a good example: Even though she is not into spiritual cultivation and does not acknowledge the reality of the Archetypes, she is expressing them nonetheless, as we saw earlier.

She expresses them, but only 'in my eyes' and I'm not sure anyone else is conscious of them like I am.  The truth is, and this probably goes for all of us, conscious knowledge of the influence of the archetypes will in many cases be quite threatening.  In the case of a tarot reading, we may not wish to see the shadow side of the card that is presented, and so the card gets dismissed as meaningless altogether.  

 

So, from my wife's perspective the archetype is neither recognised nor expressed. From my perspective the archetype is expressed by her and recognised by me. 

 

Which of us is right?  

 

I would say that we both are right according to our state of being.  But the person who has individuated, fought their own shadow, developed their psiritual nature etc, is in a better position to understand the archetypal influence in themselves and others.  This is not unlike the long-standing view that the analyst must first go through analysis, and that the Tarot reading has a psychotherapeutic potential.

 

Best to you!

Edited June 11, 2015 by Nikolai1

[Michael Sternbach]

I'm more of a 22 kind of guy.

 

In Tarot terms, that makes you a Fool!

 

 

No offence, I just couldn't resist the opportunity to post this funny video.

 

Be free to tell us your date of birth, and we will talk about your cards (slightly) more seriously.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Michael Sternbach]

One would think so     .... but ...

 

 

Oh, I haven't confused   them  ,  but I feel they 'should' be joined  ( its a simple matter, on line nowadays, to cast a 'sidereal' chart   that has aspects to fixed stars )  but ....   see below.

 

I think about the constellations more in terms of their individual stars anyway. Actually, you already touched this interesting topic over on "Tarot and the 36 Decans".

 

 

besides its ....  in the GD book .... of course ...  where did you think the old boy .... lifted it from.

 

It's definitely not in one of my BoT editions. Back to the "black brick" then...

 

(scuse the dots .... I am typing in time ....  to Annie .... 

 

PS. check the bird  .... in the clip      )

 

You somehow looked different when I saw you singing with your cat...

 

....  see ya there. 

 

 

Great card work by the way   

 

Thanks, I appreciate this compliment... Especially from such a knowledgeable and experienced Tarot reader like yourself!

Edited June 12, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Michael Sternbach]

 

Hi Michael

Yes definitely - I often say I practice three yogas: meditation, philosophy, and my wife!  I think without her I would be a prime candidate for disappearing into emptiness.  On a day by day basis she makes me see that spiritually is 'on earth as it is in heaven'.  That the 'mundane' world is not mundane and shouldn't be neglected.  And from her perspective, I bring a transcendent view and creative possibility.  I am not 'bogged down' by the way things always work, convention etc.

 

But, of course, on a day by day basis we are not always fully conscious of each other's merits and we still revert to type and have to experience tensions and disputes.  I often wonder whether we encapsulate quite well the different spiritual style of the two genders in general? Mother Earth and Father Heaven! What do you think?

 

That's interesting. As the Wheel of Fortune definitely pertains to the male/female or yin/yang polarity - most obviously in this version (from the Osho Zen deck):

 

 

This is fascinating because I've definitely noticed her 'shadow' in the Jungian sense.  When people disagree with her, for example colleagues, she often criticises them for being 'uncritical', 'unreflective', 'conventional' etc. But if she were more reflective herself, she would see that her opponents are offering quite valid points of view, that are just different.  She projects her own weaknesses onto others and then criticises them, and this happens on a day by day basis.  She is not conscious of this at all, and I think it would be quite painful for her to consciously encounter her shadow: that she is not as much of a critical, reflective individual as she likes to think.

 

The "Angel Paths" website comments about the Sun card:

 

"When the Sun shines, we find new ways of resolving problems, new perspectives and fresh viewpoints. We see things more clearly, and are able to objectively consider obstacles and difficulties. We have the energy we need to throw ourselves into life, and to dynamically deal with anything that we discover."

 

If suppressed, the "different viewpoints" would be experienced as not belonging to self, thus be projected onto others. They would then often be seen as challenging the conscious personality.

 

But of course this is a very Jungian analysis, I don't how if Tarot uses the term shadow in the same way?

 

Yes, the term "shadow card" is a reference to Jungian psychology (like much of the modern interpretation of esotericism).

 

One of the big criticisms of the Platonic ideas is how plurality can exist in a timeless/spaceless dimension.  Perhaps the archetypes only appear to those whose consciousness is basically rooted in a kind of formless realm which then imbues the world of form with a noumenal atmosphere.oulk

 

I would maintain that the "formless realm" is the origin of the world of form or manifestation, including time and space. The Archetypes themselves are formless, as Jung emphasized, even though they appear in many different forms. They can surely be seen as noumenal or numinous, an example being the deities (which are also Archetypes) of various religions.

 

Jung learned the term from the neo-Platonist Plotin, who used it in that sense.

 

For me, and In my experience, we start to notice  the archetypal nature of people and symbols at a time when our raw experience is also transformed.  

 

Good observation there.

 

The colour of the grass, the blue of the sky may not have any particular symbolic meaning, but still they are perceived with a bright, vivid aliveness.  Water, for me, has completely transformed in nature and appearance.  So its against this basic noumenal perceptual backdrop that specific psychoid forms start to impress us with their significance.

 

How would you help someone to increase their 'recognition and expression'? 

 

Contemplating the Archetypes will automatically amplify them in self. Often, people studying a certain Archetype will encounter it in their daily experience by way of synchronicity.

 

A classical and very recommendable book is Sallie Nichols' Jung and Tarot: An Archetypal Journey.

 

She expresses them, but only 'in my eyes' and I'm not sure anyone else is conscious of them like I am.  The truth is, and this probably goes for all of us, conscious knowledge of the influence of the archetypes will in many cases be quite threatening.  In the case of a tarot reading, we may not wish to see the shadow side of the card that is presented, and so the card gets dismissed as meaningless altogether.  

 

Yes, this can sometimes be observed.

 

So, from my wife's perspective the archetype is neither recognised nor expressed. From my perspective the archetype is expressed by her and recognised by me. 

 

Which of us is right?  

 

I would say that we both are right according to our state of being.

 

Perhaps. But actually, I would say that you are right, in an objective manner. For what could be more objective than the numbers of one's date of birth, which our survey is based on?

 

But the person who has individuated, fought their own shadow, developed their psiritual nature etc, is in a better position to understand the archetypal influence in themselves and others.  This is not unlike the long-standing view that the analyst must first go through analysis, and that the Tarot reading has a psychotherapeutic potential.

 

Right, there lies a great potential for Tarot. I used the cards to that end in my work in a psychiatric practice. There is a thread on the topic that could certainly be continued:

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/37882-tarot-therapy/

 

Best to you!

 

Best wishes to you and your wife!

[blue eyed snake]

I disagree ,  we are told to love unconditionally , rarely are we taught  how on earth are we going to achieve that. (Or maybe we are 'taught' that in a no longer relevant way ? ) .  But I agree it is a problem !

 

yes, we are told that, but also many people try to get something back for their trying to love unconditionally, precisely because they don't get that love when they are so  small that they need it to grow up healthy

 

yes, and I have lived through and tried to help another's despair with this, more than once, in the realm of mothers and children.

 

you seem to have a big heart

 

 

I believe the same happens in this area ;  people assume they are programmed to deal with parenthood. Not usually IMO, it has to be learnt, especially for the young. In some cultures and families, the young are expected to take part in looking after their younger siblings. A young girl having a baby has a village and auntie support network, etc. 

 

yep, and in modern society these structures are all but gone. A condition like postpartum depression is occurring more often in the 'higher'realms of society than in the lower socio economical strata, i think that is because  there is more of that 'village quality' there, more support from family and neighbors, and less tendency for perfectionism.

 

 

This level ( pelican    )  is not for beginners .... it is 18 (out of 33)  or 5 (out of 9 ) degree level. Not for beginners - you have to train develop and pass the previous degree levels before one can start beginning  to practice this, by then you should have some tools to be able to deal with what arises ... oh, stuff will arise  all right .

 

For me the recognition was more at the 'mundane' level, that of a mother having given more than she had. Still, after reading the link that noonespecial gave me :

 

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/alcbirds.html

 

i do recognize it on that other level too.

 

Yes. Good observation !   The reverse side of the apron represents the ' preliminary horror' one traverses and triumphs over first

( the 'black room' )  to get to this 'state'  . It is enacted as some sort of trail where things try to drag you down.   

 

yes, that is a nice concise formulation of what's happening to me, you know that it is strange to fall into a more spiritual outlook after a lifetime of consciously disregarding/ holding in contempt the whole idea.

 

so my mundane motherhood was preparation for whatever is following now   

 

The relevant variations of the rite are now published (if you can find them on the net ) and can be looked up and studied ' FM - 18th Deg,   GD - 5 = 6 ,  ( ....  =  11     ) ,  OTO - 5th Deg,    etc. 

 

This first stage - which has a lot to do with 'clearing'  the 'lower astral' can also be summed up by this old evocative hymn ; 

 

http://hermetic.com/crowley/equinox/i/i/eqi01011.html

 

pfff

 

 

 

Heart is a pump .... it pumps in , then out. If you  have 'pump in' closed, its going to run out of a supply eventually. Fortunately the supply, if you can connect to it, is universal, endless and cyclic.  

 

found it 

 

 

Indeed, there is a lot of preliminary work before this level, actually, its on a whole different plane to the preliminary stuff.

 

You look after that garden of yours ... and before long it will produce more than enough food and you can start distributing.

 

 but for now i need the whole supply to restore and rebuild myself, so still playing the hermit.

to be continued

 

Aside from the above symbols ? Just about any form of cross and circle , as simple as 

 

 

 

or 

 

 

 

 

 

get it, being a European at heart i like this

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

Wow... Do you look something like this?

 

 

 

 yep, though somewhat older, hair greying and at the moment still tired...but it's getting better. Nice image, I like that!

 

 

Among other lizards, I sometimes see blindworms in my garden - a really misleading name, as they are limbless reptiles that look a lot like snakes, and while I am not sure if their eyes are blue, they are anything but blind. I was surprised to learn that they live to an age of 30 years and more.

 

in my language blindworms are called hazelworms/hazelsnakes, and they are indeed beautiful , i didn'know they are that  longlived.

 

Great how you meditated with the cards and arrived at your own insights. I wanted to hear them, that's why I limited myself to giving certain "key words".

 

Thanks for that, after a lifetime of analyzing i try to be somewhat more intuitive. Now that i've looked in this way at these cards i see that it's like eh...seeing things ( animals/ play of light, water etc.) in nature and feel the symbolic meaning resonate into your core. Yesterday i saw a blackbird with a pure white spot on the head, that does something to me too.

Edited June 14, 2015 by blue eyed snake

[blue eyed snake]

That's in fact the order which you generally see in the older decks (i.e. the Tarot of Marseille). It was altered by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn mostly for astrological reasons. Waite, and with him many others, followed the GD's revision, whereas Crowley and followers of the French school rejected it and retained the original order.

 

So did I for the most part until now, but some recent encounters, not least on this thread, are seriously making me question...

 

further puzzling is healthy, nothing seems to be fixed, ever...

 

 

It may interest especially Nungali that Crowley in fact uses the GD's revised numerical order in column XIV of the Liber 777. As its publication preceded the Thoth deck, Crowley may simply have changed his mind at some stage.

 

that goes far over my head, i just wanna play with nice pictures 

 

 

Not to say that your associations are "wrong", but the pelican on the Empress card does emphasize the themes of motherly nurturing and self-sacrifice (just like your picture above).

 

well, that was indeed my first association, but the theme of hubris resonated with me too.

 

 

Being an "Empress" at the soul level makes various kinds of Love a big theme for you to deal with, anyway.

 

i noticed...

 

It's hardly an exaggeration that the Thoth is a manual that comprises all of Aleister Crowley's Magickal knowledge.

 

well, i do like them

 

 

The symbolism of the cards is the topic of endless top-heavy debates. There is nothing wrong with starting out with an intuitive take on the symbols, and I like your associations.

 

as  i wrote earlier, i wanna stop analyzing. if i did i would soon become entangled in all those topheavy debates, form my own opinions and loose my path while analyzing...i have to unlearn that habit.

 

Although that's really nothing humanmade, but a representation of the periodic system of the chemical elements. As these are the "building blocks" of the physical world, your house association makes sense though.

 

ah, but in that case it is humanmade. i mean, the way the chemical elements are is natural, but the way humans pushed them into a strange blockish form....maybe the element should fit better in a spirallike form like a sunflower. The form we pushed them in doesn't fit.

 

 

They are the four Cherubim that appear in several Biblical texts. They represent the four fixed signs of the zodiac Taurus (the bull), Leo (the lion), Scorpio (the eagle as its "transformed form), Aquarius (the man), and thus the elements - this time, the good old .Aristotelian ones. They are  associated both with the four evangelists and the "four winds" blowing from the four cardinal directions.

 

o yes, now that you write this , it dawns on me

 

Thus speaketh The Empress!

 

 

 

Amazingly, this brings up the 8/11 or Adjustment/Lust question the third time in a row now!

 

You tell me, please: Was your last year one of seeking your balance and center, or characterized more by immersing yourself in joyful experiences?

 

seeking balance, without any doubt.

 

 

 

The Book of Thoth gives among this card's divinatory meanings "secret impulse from within; practical plans derived accordingly". I associate that with the spermatozoon.

 

well, i wait and see what will unfold in my life, there are mighty stirrings, that's for sure.

 

 

Technically, the snake is encircling the Orphic Egg that the Universe has hatched from. But let's not be overly pedantic, I imagine that as a Fabergé egg.

 

like this one 

 

 

Yeah, reading your posts, maybe you tend to be pedantic 

 

but having googled orphic egg, my intuition was not that far off 

[blue eyed snake]

I am not quite sure what you mean by "just counting them on". There will be a break in the cards' numerical prgression every once in so many years.

 

just being stupid

 

 

Surely, your decision to get divorced would seem to better match Trump XII, The Hanged Man, than it's numerical equivalent Trump III - with the actual divorce conceivably following in the next year of your life, symbolized by Trump XIII or Death.

 

Well, just to make sure that we are on the same page, my method for calculating annual cards is:

 

• Month of birth + day of birth + year of last birthday
• Add up the four digits of the result
• If the new result is larger than 22, proceed by adding up its two digits

Unlike two-digit cards derived from dates of birth, this card (if larger than 9) is usually not further reduced to an additional one-digit card. However, I have experimented with this approach, and I conclude that the theme of the lower numerical equivalent tends to manifest itself too during the year, as the cards are some kind of harmonics to each other

 

hmm, i can't make open spaces in the layout anymore...the hanged man and death it is...the visuals stir up things in me... and the visuals are very strong indeed.

the hanged man seems to be hanged against a backdrop of...manmade raster, 'societal norms'  ... i will not go into my associations again, i find its too personal to share

 

hus, a year that is "ruled" by Trump XIV ("Art" or "Temperance", depending on the deck) will at once manifest traits of Trump V or The Hierophant, in my observation. I speculate that the reverse may hold true as well.

 

I would agree to this. There are different views among Tarot readers regarding the numerical value of The Fool here, but imo, this view is consistent with him standing at both the beginning and end of the Major Arcana, for after all, the Tarot is circular ("Rota"). A conclusion in keeping also with my personal experience.

 

well, if we make the fool 22, then   it is twice 11, twice the fools number 

[blue eyed snake]

Hi Nunglai and Bes,

 

This issue of drain and personal resources is a very tricky area, and I think any therapist will find themselves encountering it time and time again.

 

Firstly, our resources available are proportional to our spiritual maturity.  A person who is very much in the egoic state of being in a world of time and space will automatically be low on resources.  Their consciousness is very individuated.  It therefore follows that any giving of love or assistance will at some level be believed to be squandered energy.  

 

On the other end of the scale, a person whose consciousness is liberally spread out across all selves will be able to vicariously appreciate the help they themselves give, as if they were the receiver.  Giving and loving is therefore a perfectly energising behaviour.  It is indistinguishable from being selfish.

 

When we have children, who are so close to us genetically and other wise, it often comes naturally that we gain energy through caring for them.  Their well-being is our own well-being, and this can come as a revelation. Childcare is a powerful yoga, and parents can often see the lack of this yoga in their peers who have not had children.

 

But, some people, like Nungali said, are not spiritually strong enough to have children.  They are so egoic that they still consider the care they give, at some level, to be squandered energy.  They may even say to their own children: "Do you have any idea what I have sacrificed for you?"  

 

When these egoic people are women an extra problem in our society occurs.  All their limited love goes to their children, and the father of the children, whether he is loving or unloving, can start to be viewed as an outright drain.  The woman becomes incapable of contributing any further to their adult-adult relationship, and may start behaving in ways to the father that are intolerably selfish.  Unless the father is a very strong person, with high resources, the relationship will fail and the women is left in an even more desperate situation as they will be the one left with the children  Subjectively, they may feel like they are the ones abandoned, but all this is due to them never learning the simple lesson: if you want love and energy, you need to give love and energy.

 

The therapy rooms are absolutely full of people telling the same old narrative: "I gave too much to others, and too little to myself.  Now I need to take more care of myself." This narrative is a very unfortunate trap.

 

If they were actually being selfless, they would not feel drained - quite the opposite.  They feel drained because they don't understand anything except the selfish mode.  It is intrinsic to their state of being, but they were forced into a caring role they weren't equipped for.  Any suggestion that it is now time to be more selfish will just delay the needed insight, growth and healing.

 

We have probably all noticed that the most selfish people in life are often full of indignation about other people's selfishness. And from their own perspective this will make perfect sense.  They will genuinely feel very drained.  It takes something very special and perhaps drastic to provoke the necessary change of heart.  In my experience, everyday therapy never had this power.  It must come from a different place, perhaps a place that despairs that even therapy can help.

 

seems to me we are talking about different people here

[Nungali]

 Фаберже !   

,,,, my ;kryptonite

 

< faints > 

Edited June 15, 2015 by Nungali

[Nikolai1]

Michael - my birthday is approaching and will shortly enter a '12' year - the 'hanging man'!  That doesn't sound good?

[Songtsan]

Well, considering how the year started for you, it may be better characterized by "Lust" than by "Adjustment". Unless, of course, that is how you always celebrate your birthdays.

 

Lots of lust, but also love....love of lust.....looking to expand from this though....going to a 100 days celibacy thing soon

[Songtsan]

Like...?

 

Assign me a task. I will be your Djinni.

[Songtsan]

 

 

Among other lizards, I sometimes see blindworms in my garden - a really misleading name, as they are limbless reptiles that look a lot like snakes, and while I am not sure if their eyes are blue, they are anything but blind. I was surprised to learn that they live to an age of 30 years and more.

I want to get venomous snakes and become immune to their poison and keep them on me all the time so they get used to being around me and do like the girls in 'The Swordsman II' with Jet Li, in this video around 14:40

 

Edited June 15, 2015 by Songtsan

[Songtsan]

Where are you, Songtsan? I hope that you are no longer suffering from your birthday party's aftermath.

 

Busy! moved into new apartment, working to make money, buy bling bling!

[Michael Sternbach]

I want to get venomous snakes and become immune to their poison and keep them on me all the time so they get used to being around me and do like the girls in 'The Swordsman II' with Jet Li, in this video around 14:40

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysk1O5BPMEk

Busy! moved into new apartment, working to make money, buy bling bling!

 

That sounds all very cool. What do you think about my reading for you?

[Songtsan]

Seems dead on...I knew I was a 5 already, but you expressed concretely and summarily who I am too a significant degree

[Michael Sternbach]

Songtsan, you may have noticed that I am doing a private little survey on this thread. For there is some debate on the Tarot scene if Trump VIII is supposed to be Adjustment or Lust. Since a #8 year just started for you, let me ask you once again what you think it's gonna be centered around: Meditation or party?

[Songtsan]

Both combined. This year, I intend to heavily explore tantric sex in a way that I never have before, in order to purify and divinize my sex life to the highest levels of spiritual sex. My partner and I are working on dual cultivation techniques more seriously now and possibly exploring adding a partner or two as well, basically creating some Earth shaking sexual magic, healing, etc.....