Observations on Kunlun Nei Gung practice

[Smile]

So, it's been over 2 months now practicing Kunlun Level 1. Most of the days it's 1 hour in the morning and one hour in the evening, but some days more and some days less, all based on how I feel about it. It's probably too much and I wouldn't recommend doing it 2 hours/day to anyone unless they are doing other meditation practices for long periods of time. And by doing it, I really mean "doing it", not thinking about it or "well, every minute of my life is practice" crap.

 

I had my thoughts against starting yet another practice. My friend Alex was all excited about it because he is a long time fan of Max. To me at the time, I wanted to focus on one practice and the claims like "One hour of Kunlun is like doing any other spiritual practice for 100 years" were just too much to take it seriously. Then I had 2 dream experiences with Max and his teacher and that convinced me to try it and see what happens. After all, who needs to sleep when you can sit in a chair and move like a retard in an epileptic seizure for an hour?

 

I started moving right away with my legs bouncing and hands and body moving left and right. Sometimes it was too violent and I had to keep saying "slow down" to calm myself. Over weeks the movements became more harmonized and sometimes mixed with periods of stillness. There were many experiences and a few times "things" came to observe.

 

So what do I think so far?

 

The way I observe Kunlun Level 1 works is basically like an excavator- the energy generated through the posture moves through your physical body and "unearths" anything on its way. When I say anything I mean anything- "past" experiences, feelings and emotions are all game and it's up to you to deal with it. It is a very good advice not to practice too much at the beginning and see how you can handle it. Then you can increase the practice according to how much you can take.

 

In a way, Kunlun reminds me of Vipassana. In Vipassana it's more controlled as you go around your body with your mind eye focusing on different body parts and observing the sensations. As you become more sensitive, the sensations reveal the energies connected to them and you can relive the moments of this and other lives connected to those energies.

 

To explain more what I mean...

 

Time is a man made thing. It doesn't exist. All the lifetimes and all the experiences charged with emotions and feelings are connected to the energy fragments that create "you" right now. If you look with the clear mind, you can see that every moment of this life and other lives are all here. They are everlastingly present and alive. Some are strongly charged with emotions and those are connected to the energies making "you". There is much more to it and I can talk more about it in details, but don't want to get off the topic.

 

As you go deeper in meditation, you experience the sensation and the energy connected with it and may "see" and relive moments from your life you forgot all about. As you relive them, the emotional energy gets released/freed and so is the influence of the event. Your destiny may change, your karmic influences may ease up and eventually be gone.

 

How is it all related to Kunlun? Well, Kunlun effects are similar but it can open up more then you can face. And that's why I truly believe there maybe something to it when they say "1 day of this is like 100 years of others". Of course, don't take it literally but you should understand the thought behind it.

 

My advice you should start really slow and progress gradually so you know you can handle it in a safe manner. For most people it shouldn't be a problem. I believe other levels of Kunlun will address the subtle deeper energies that weren't affected by level 1. Like peeling the onion.

 

 

Is it worth doing? Like I said before it will "gently move you to emptiness meditation in a natural way". To me, it's worth the price of gold because most people are unable to do that. Their bodies, minds and energy is like a garbage dump in a middle of a highway to Mexico. Need a lot of internal work to be done. Kunlun addresses this in an easy way anyone can implement. The question is: Can you take it all in and deal with it when it's pouring out of you? lol

M.

[Mal]

Is it worth doing? Like I said before it will "gently move you to emptiness meditation in a natural way". To me, it's worth the price of gold because most people are unable to do that.

 

Thanks Max, Apart for all of Cam's efforts it was your post about stilness meditation that got me really intrested in this. I have been having trouble getting past 30 min in siting meditation.

 

How do you feel about the part in the book where it states something like -

once you have tried the practice for 2 weeks if you enjoy it and want to go deeper you should stop all other energy work?

 

I worry about my Chi Gungs that I do for Kung Fu, the 5 tibetans, and Tai Chi perhaps being incompatable.

[Smile]

How do you feel about the part in the book where it states something like -

once you have tried the practice for 2 weeks if you enjoy it and want to go deeper you should stop all other energy work?

 

I worry about my Chi Gungs that I do for Kung Fu, the 5 tibetans, and Tai Chi perhaps being incompatable.

Hi Mal,

I believe as long as you don't have practices that consciously move /control the energy (with your mind) you will be ok.

What chi gungs are we talking about?

M.

[Mantra68]

Nice post man. I have been waiting for your report. Well articulated. You are an excellent example of what Kunlun can do.

[freeform]

All the lifetimes and all the experiences charged with emotions and feelings are connected to the energy fragments that create "you" right now. If you look with the clear mind, you can see that every moment of this life and other lives are all here. They are everlastingly present and alive.

 

 

yes!

 

This is how I see 'karma' - all our present patterns are connected to our past patterns, to societal patterns, to archetypal, collective unconscious patterns up to planetary and universal patterns... This is what I get if I trace an 'attachment' or pattern far enough - at first it seems personal, connected to current, then past events and traumas, if I look deeper there is usually (not always) some aspect of this in my bloodline, sometimes I get glimpses of how the pattern started in a completely different person in a different time and has been unresolved... deeper still I sometimes get these mythological sort of dramas being played out by gods and 'elementals'... deeper still there are planetary/universal things going on, but by this point I'm usually out of my depth...

 

It's obvious that it's my mind that needs to put this into a linear model and see it as 'deeper' or more 'shallow' or past or future, but really it's all being played out now, in the present (and my belly knows this very well)... My practice for years has been tracing these patterns and resolving them slowly, one by one (there are literally thousands in here!) At the moment Kunlun seems to be doing this automatically and spontaneously with little need for conscious direction (over the years I perfected 'conscious direction' into an art form - learning not so much to direct but just 'allow' or 'invite' and just let go of anything in the way, all the while holding a simple, gentle intention in the background).

 

So that's what I've been finding with Kunlun... I actually had found another (very unexpected) tool that made this kind of energy available (although less powerful) - it feels nice to finally not have to make so much effort for this to happen... and I still haven't met Max in person... (still hoping for a UK workshop, Chris!!)

 

Smile, if you feel inspired, then do share some more on what you said above.

[Mal]

Hi Mal,

I believe as long as you don't have practices that consciously move /control the energy (with your mind) you will be ok.

What chi gungs are we talking about?

M.

 

 

 

Mmmmm, that's what I'm worrying about.

 

The Chi Gungs I do are all basically.

Breath in, press the air down into the Dan Tien, Tai Gong (spelling probably wrong, basically contract the anus) and the "Air" flows to fingertips. This breathing is co-ordinated with various arm movements. You don't "visualise" energy as such, but you can feel it move after a few months of practice. Sifu tends to talk about "air" e.g. "even though we know you can only breath into the lungs, you breath into the dan tien. The Air will go wherever you mind directs it."

 

Not trying to be cryptic, they are hard to explain in text.

 

Better example (perhaps), Breath out arms in front of the body 45 deg upwards, palm down.

 

Breath in as the arms go out and down the sides and the belly, then palm up and up to the chest (a circular scooping motion)

 

Palms face down, Air is pressed into the dan tien as the hands move down. (tight belly)

 

Tai Gong and the arms shoot forward and down at 45deg, energy out to the fingertips.

 

Mal

[mat black]

Thanx Max.

 

You had me glued to the screen reading that.

 

Your insights are appreciated.

 

Likewise Freeform, thanx.

Edited October 17, 2007 by mat black

[三江源]

.

Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[nightwatchdog]

What is the kunlun posture, exactly?

[Cameron]

I am a nobody!

 

Remember..Smile is the dude that got this Lama Dorje ball rolling on Taobums!

[joeblast]

My practice has been slow going. I've been busy lately, trying to get some condo repairs done so I can sell the place (just did countertops over the last week.) My usual meditation times I've just had other stuff to do or have been way too tired. I feel like I need a little more energy capital doing kunlun as opposed to normal crosslegged stuff. I've only been consistently doing kunlun every day for the past 2-3 days, havent had much twitching or what not...nothing in my legs, but my right hand keeps rotating every so often like it is 'getting more in line' so to speak.

Yesterday was the first day in a long time I said screw everything else after work and just sat there doing some meditation for 45 minutes or so. It was good...I needed it. I slept like a mofo last night, dead to the world, no dreams even...and then I snoozed 3x on the alarm this morning, shut it off accidentally the fourth time...good thing I was only planning on going into work early! I was stuck to the damn bed.

I feel like my schedule's been sooo packed for sooo long...wish I had more personal time from work, I could use a good vacation...

[Trunk]

I'm getting similar benefits as Max, Cat, and others have already posted.

 

As far as complementary practices...

- some sort of gentle spine work seems helpful to me, as I find the kunlun practice a bit 'front loaded'. As I posted before (link), or take your pick (link).

- The kunlun posture activates the hara, which is loaded with fascia layers, so other fascia related practices such as: Sonnon's Intu-flow, any joint rotations, or other more traditional tendon-changing practices would seem appropriate.

 

What is the kunlun posture, exactly?

It's in the book Pillars of Bliss (link).

[90_1494798740]

I have nothing special to add but I have never felt more grounded and relaxed and positive before - confronting the ups and downs of life! It's more a stillness meditation. I have only experienced some movement of the feet.

 

... any joint rotations, or other more traditional tendon-changing practices would seem appropriate.

 

That's really a good idea! My feet don't seem to be used to the posture/movements and it's already getting colder outside. A warm-up might be exactly the right thing to do.

 

... some sort of gentle spine work seems helpful to me ...

 

The Seven Power Exercises have always been my preferred way of integrating the back/spine.

[lockpaw]

Smile, Trunk, et al.

 

What do you feel makes Kulun different from the other practices you've tried? Is it the procedure? The transmission? Did you just reach a critical mass on your own?

 

It's interesting because people seem to say that Kunlun is succeeding to a greater extent than (given the breadth of experience of the Bums) almost anything else.

 

Do you also feel that Kunlun will give the same wisdom, as say, prolonged attention to the workings of oneself (as can be case for Vipassana)?

 

Kunlun reminds me somewhat of Sifu Wong Kiew Kit. He teaches spontaneous chi kung and people have strange reactions at his seminars (yelling, throwing selves against walls, etc.). His techniques for spontaneous chi kung are deceptively simple--- let everything go and just flow.

[mYTHmAKER]

Kunlun reminds me somewhat of Sifu Wong Kiew Kit. He teaches spontaneous chi kung and people have strange reactions at his seminars (yelling, throwing selves against walls, etc.). His techniques for spontaneous chi kung are deceptively simple--- let everything go and just flow.

 

Soaring Crane qi gong does the same thing but not quite as active.

Although some people did get carried away.

[Mantra68]

So, it's been over 2 months now practicing Kunlun Level 1. Most of the days it's 1 hour in the morning and one hour in the evening, but some days more and some days less, all based on how I feel about it. It's probably too much and I wouldn't recommend doing it 2 hours/day to anyone unless they are doing other meditation practices for long periods of time. And by doing it, I really mean "doing it", not thinking about it or "well, every minute of my life is practice" crap.

 

I had my thoughts against starting yet another practice. My friend Alex was all excited about it because he is a long time fan of Max. To me at the time, I wanted to focus on one practice and the claims like "One hour of Kunlun is like doing any other spiritual practice for 100 years" were just too much to take it seriously. Then I had 2 dream experiences with Max and his teacher and that convinced me to try it and see what happens. After all, who needs to sleep when you can sit in a chair and move like a retard in an epileptic seizure for an hour?

 

I started moving right away with my legs bouncing and hands and body moving left and right. Sometimes it was too violent and I had to keep saying "slow down" to calm myself. Over weeks the movements became more harmonized and sometimes mixed with periods of stillness. There were many experiences and a few times "things" came to observe.

 

So what do I think so far?

 

The way I observe Kunlun Level 1 works is basically like an excavator- the energy generated through the posture moves through your physical body and "unearths" anything on its way. When I say anything I mean anything- "past" experiences, feelings and emotions are all game and it's up to you to deal with it. It is a very good advice not to practice too much at the beginning and see how you can handle it. Then you can increase the practice according to how much you can take.

 

In a way, Kunlun reminds me of Vipassana. In Vipassana it's more controlled as you go around your body with your mind eye focusing on different body parts and observing the sensations. As you become more sensitive, the sensations reveal the energies connected to them and you can relive the moments of this and other lives connected to those energies.

 

To explain more what I mean...

 

Time is a man made thing. It doesn't exist. All the lifetimes and all the experiences charged with emotions and feelings are connected to the energy fragments that create "you" right now. If you look with the clear mind, you can see that every moment of this life and other lives are all here. They are everlastingly present and alive. Some are strongly charged with emotions and those are connected to the energies making "you". There is much more to it and I can talk more about it in details, but don't want to get off the topic.

 

As you go deeper in meditation, you experience the sensation and the energy connected with it and may "see" and relive moments from your life you forgot all about. As you relive them, the emotional energy gets released/freed and so is the influence of the event. Your destiny may change, your karmic influences may ease up and eventually be gone.

 

How is it all related to Kunlun? Well, Kunlun effects are similar but it can open up more then you can face. And that's why I truly believe there maybe something to it when they say "1 day of this is like 100 years of others". Of course, don't take it literally but you should understand the thought behind it.

 

My advice you should start really slow and progress gradually so you know you can handle it in a safe manner. For most people it shouldn't be a problem. I believe other levels of Kunlun will address the subtle deeper energies that weren't affected by level 1. Like peeling the onion.

Is it worth doing? Like I said before it will "gently move you to emptiness meditation in a natural way". To me, it's worth the price of gold because most people are unable to do that. Their bodies, minds and energy is like a garbage dump in a middle of a highway to Mexico. Need a lot of internal work to be done. Kunlun addresses this in an easy way anyone can implement. The question is: Can you take it all in and deal with it when it's pouring out of you? lol

M.

This post and this man are your best new teachers.

 

The Bums have the practice now and can more brilliantly analyze it than I. You know enough about me, Lama Max Dorje Thunderbolt and Kunlun to get everything you need.

 

You guys are amazing and I have enjoyed writing you but I think my work here is done.

 

I'll bop in once and a while to check up on things or keep you posted on upcoming seminars.

 

See you around.

[Cameron]

Elvis has left the building!

[Ryan McCoole]

I have the "Pillars of Bliss" on order, sounds like an excellent read. Question though: does this also require/detail sexual energy transformation in such traditions as Mo Pai? I'd be curious how much of a crossover there is, or a smilarity?

 

I mean, other Bums here have made points to discuss/ even see Adyashanti, who said in one of his videos that "everyday life IS the practice?" Not to take away from nei-gong or Kulun, but what is the relationship here? I mean, I've read qi-gong authors say "Zen prepares the mind very well to do Qi Gong". So...are people like Adyashanti missing out? I rememeber Adya said "It's not the blue pearl or the golden dragon or whatever the hell it is. If that happens, your Oneness is what percieves that, but it's not the Oneness itself."

 

I even e-mailed his site asking what physical activity he does and they responded, "I think that aspect has dropped away."

 

Conenction to Kulun? Significance? This practice looks good and I'll be working on "taking it all in"

 

Best,

 

ryan

[Smile]

This is how I see 'karma' ..........

Smile, if you feel inspired, then do share some more on what you said above.

So nice that someone can relate to my experiences. Of course these are just my personal observations and they are changing as I go deeper into things.

I will will write more but later... so many things have to do.

[Smile]

The Chi Gungs I do are all basically...

Interesting... Kunlun is a spontaneous practice- the more you let go, the faster the progress. It could be renamed "The practice of letting go". And the most important parts of it are smiling and relaxation. So if you think your "other" practices in any way contradict your ability to "let go", then maybe you should seriously take a look what your path is and where it's going.

 

For me, before starting Kunlun, I practiced Soaring Crane Chi Gung (I learned from one of a founder's first students - in his late 70's now) and Rui Zen chi Kung. I desided to stop practicing them so I can see the effects of Kunlun without any help. I didn't come back to those practices since then, and believe me, they were to me like dear children. i don't know why I didn't. My friend is still practicing one of Chi Kungs and says Kunlun amplified the effects of it manyfold.

 

Smile, Trunk, et al.

What do you feel makes Kulun different from the other practices you've tried? Is it the procedure? The transmission? Did you just reach a critical mass on your own?

Do you also feel that Kunlun will give the same wisdom, as say, prolonged attention to the workings of oneself (as can be case for Vipassana)?

Transmission is very important but if you are sincere and your heart is pure, you will get it through other means. Physical plane is just one of many means.

Yes, Vipassana. One of the best practices out there, but also is very hard. Kunlung is easier for a regular guy or girl and will eventually prepare you for emptiness, just like Vipassana. The roads and methods are quiet different, but the destination is the same. At least I see it as such.

M.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Smile

[mYTHmAKER]

For me, before starting Kunlun, I practiced Soaring Crane Chi Gung (I learned from one of a founder's first students - in his late 70's now)

I believe I learned Soaring Crane from his wife.

I don't do it anymore as I focus on tai chi and standing.

[Yoda]

Elvis has left the building!

 

 

Unless he suffers from Cam's Syndrome, it appears that Mantra68 has assumed his cyberbody and has left the Taobum dimension.

 

Fortunately, he has annointed Mad Max as his dharma heir!

 

*Yoda bows down to the new Taobum Kunlun Regent*

 

Update your resume, bro!!

[Trunk]

See you around.

* waves *

[Ryan McCoole]

I have the "Pillars of Bliss" on order, sounds like an excellent read. Question though: does this also require/detail sexual energy transformation in such traditions as Mo Pai? I'd be curious how much of a crossover there is, or a smilarity?

 

I mean, other Bums here have made points to discuss/ even see Adyashanti, who said in one of his videos that "everyday life IS the practice?" Not to take away from nei-gong or Kulun, but what is the relationship here? I mean, I've read qi-gong authors say "Zen prepares the mind very well to do Qi Gong". So...are people like Adyashanti missing out? I rememeber Adya said "It's not the blue pearl or the golden dragon or whatever the hell it is. If that happens, your Oneness is what percieves that, but it's not the Oneness itself."

 

I even e-mailed his site asking what physical activity he does and they responded, "I think that aspect has dropped away."

 

Conenction to Kulun? Significance? This practice looks good and I'll be working on "taking it all in"

 

Best,

 

ryan

[Yoda]

I think of advaita masters as being very rare, gifted individuals who were able to wake up by just "thinking it through" or "just seeing what is." And then they tell you what a great view they are enjoying at the top of the mountain.

 

Imho, the average person needs an actual practice and to deal with the issues of climbing up the path instead of just enjoying the view.

 

I would try both paths and see which ones appeal to you the most.