How disgusting is the sexual relationship between men and women actually?

[4bsolute]

Men are mostly in a position of neediness. Barely realize it.

 

Women are mostly in a position of neediness. Barely realize it.

 

When you see a man on the street and he asks women for a simple date and casual sex, he gets rejected in 95% of all cases. Studies have been made.

 

When a woman on the street asks men for a simple date and casual sex, she gets accepted in almost 100% of all cases. Studies have been made.

 

The female neediness is accepted. The male is declined.


Now, when you as a male come into a position of greater Self confidence - meaning you have rediscovered more of your creative potential of your true Self (beyond personality) - you notice that suddenly females are attracted to you. And they want you. Sexually, mostly.

 

And at first it seems quite interesting and you will accept it and follow along with it but there comes a turning point in which you ask yourself what is actually going on here. And you will realize that females are so unconsciously wired that they withdraw your creative energy in the most beautiful and colorful way, leaving you behind.

A totally unbiased observation from me. Feeling kind of shocked but seeing my fellow female human beings as being not guilty for it's happening unconsciously.

 

When you then realize this in a state of feeling somewhat drained, it can happen that the exact same female that was attracted to you minutes ago feels no attraction to you anymore. When you address this situation it might even come to an arguement because she will discover her unconscious patterns and will defend it (ego) as herself.

 

It feels abit disgusting to my mind, how this is happening. And I am more and more going away from just having sex to having sex with a deeper purpose, or rather having no sex at all. As a male who once was heavily craving sex and porn and having the spiritual excuse of wanting to continue this behaviour many many more times, this time calling it "tantra". Etc.

 

Let's stop lying to ourselves, okay?

 

Have you ever had experience with it?

Edited May 30, 2015 by 4bsolute

[thelerner]

I find the more disgusting the better.

<kidding.. maybe>

 

As one gets older raging hormones cease and we search out more mature relationships and stops playing games.

[Aetherous]

Maybe it can help to think of things in this way...

 

In terms of physical attraction and lust, it's basically a brief and meaningless thing that is totally not about the people involved (which is why anyone can learn about seduction and pull it off).

And it can happen both ways...there's the idea that men will want to conquest a woman. You see an attractive looking one out there and you wouldn't mind seeing her naked, having sex with her, just to know what it's like...but then who knows how you'll feel after. Maybe the sex was unenjoyable, maybe her breath smelled bad, etc. So then, what was once a strong drive, turns into a repulsion...and in her eyes you'd be going from truly desiring her, to desiring to be away from her for some unknown reason. Same thing when a woman does it to a man. And it truly is disgusting.

 

(It can be overcome, though...people can still make decisions in the heat of the moment. Both men and woman can deny being seduced.)

 

So that's all in the realm of physical attraction and lust...which have nothing to do with relationships. If you're compatible with the person, if you care about them and who they are (which requires knowing them first), if you communicate and work together...then perhaps the whole thing is more fulfilling. Then you can tell her that her breath smells, and encourage her to do oil pulling and tongue scraping...problem solved.

 

And people who call sexuality, "tantra", are missing the entire point and have fallen for newage marketing. Best to not think of sex as something spiritual, unless you're taught that by a legitimate teacher of it. Better to aim at making it more of a committed relationship thing where you truly love the other person, and just leave it at that...anything more can cause problems that aren't apparent at first.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Aetherous

[Rara]

I like how you are conscious of these thing 4bsolute. My girlfriend and I have less sex than a few years ago, but we do so many fun things, it goes unnoticed. We might be in the mood once, twice a week and if so, then it is great. So don't strictly cut yourself off. If you seek a good relationship with a good partner, great, cultivate that and read each other when the time is right to have some fun

 

Let the superficial "shaggers" do their thing. Each to their own. You just don't need to be a part of it.

[SonOfTheGods]

Rule #1: Everything is an Energy Exchange

 

Rule #2: See Rule #1

[vonkrankenhaus]

There is nothing disgusting about the sexual relationship between men and women.

 

However, the fake version of the sexual relationship between men and women that has been taught to and in modern "society" has many irreconcilable and untenable aspects, by design.

 

It is a matter of being simple and virtuous enough to recognize the false and attain the truth - just like in every other endeavor.

 

Otherwise is much difficulty, because although the true roots and trunk of this still do exist, and they are still in the earth, almost all the leaves have been "artfully" reshaped, painted, and mislabeled as if it were another kind of thing altogether.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[blue eyed snake]

the above reactions are good,

 

for some balance, i'd like to add that the ' disgusting' part of it has another side to,

 

 

it's called a player

[noonespecial]

Our culture makes such a big freaking deal out of sex. Meanwhile teeanage boys are watching rape porn for free on the internet. Another L for western civ.

[dawei]

I would say there is obvious, surface stuff and not so obvious, below the surface stuff going on here.... 

 

surface = conscious, local mind interpretations of the world around us  

 

You seem to be getting closer to discovering the below the surface meaning...

 

But the surface seems to fight it now

[Daeluin]

Now, when you as a male come into a position of greater Self confidence - meaning you have rediscovered more of your creative potential of your true Self (beyond personality) - you notice that suddenly females are attracted to you. And they want you. Sexually, mostly.

 

And at first it seems quite interesting and you will accept it and follow along with it but there comes a turning point in which you ask yourself what is actually going on here. And you will realize that females are so unconsciously wired that they withdraw your creative energy in the most beautiful and colorful way, leaving you behind.

 

Well said.... I think this begins to tap into what is happening beneath the surface. All in all I think it is a lesson (these days) for men to find greater restraint.

 

Remember the principles of K'an and Li. When creative energy and receptive energy unite, their centers are drawn to exchange. ䷋ -> ䷿ The center of the creative energy is drawn into the receptive center. Leaving the receptive full and the creative empty, forming K'an (the pit) and Li (separated). This leaves the creative energy at the center of K'an in a position where it must always maintain its center to avoid flowing into a new home, a very delicate position that easily comes to loss. And Li in a position of always seeking what it has lost - often outside in others, rather than inside where K'an waits.

 

We are constantly having our creative energies drawn into pits out in the world - in sexual alchemy a new being is born from this exchange. It is natural for the woman, who is to carry and fuel the growth of this new being, to receive the energy. Though there are practices too where the man takes the energy from the woman.

 

I imagine the subtlety of this is lost to most, as it happens more beneath the surface. It is not wrong for our partners to receive this energy - it us up to us to be more discerning with what we give.  And if we want to cultivate a more mutual exchange that results in dual cultivation, I imagine there are ways, but likely requires both participants to be on the same page. Otherwise simply let sex be about procreation. Non-sexual intimacy is also a good way to exchange energies that is more on the surface and results in less complicated repurcusions.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Daeluin

[idiot_stimpy]

No matter what warm embrace you receive from your partner, nothing can compare to the warm embrace from your Father who is in heaven. All encompassing and unconditional embrace. 

 

I am having some attachment issues at the moment with the opposite sex, I must always remember the above.

[Daeluin]

Too, we must remember that only we can accept that embrace - if we are closed off to it, that is our choice, but it is always there, always welcoming.

 

Everything we seek for externally, that ideal mate, exists within, and is only hidden by our ego. When we surrender and dissolve our "self", so that we are open, then turn back around and embrace what lies in our heart, our mysterious center, we find what we have been searching for. Even better, we find that through this embrace, we are connected to all.

[silent thunder]

I've never experienced casual, or disgusting sex.

 

For me, it is, simultaneously, not important at all; while being among the most acutely raw, healing and opening experiences available.

[z00se]

I used to think similar to the OP, but now i am not disgusted about it at all, infact i embrace what disgusts you. When you understand the relationship it helps you get what you want. Why is it disgusting if it is nobel, all the rules lay clearly displayed for all to see. Equality of man and woman is a pathway to disaster. We need the differences to maintain the attraction and bring togetherness. Family should stay together and enjoy the strengths of man and woman together, not 2 equals. When everyone is equal there is no need for each other. Finding a closer relationship in the divine as a type of escapism from fear from a relationship turning sour, and a increased sense of oneness from embracing the divine is infact doing the opposite, as partners drift further apart for the sake of individual comfort of embracing the divine. The unity felt by the individual is not equally felt by the children who have divorced parents and as a result finds it harder to find the divine within themselves. Balance, balance, balance. Divine is good, bit equality for all is taking it too far. Its nothing for me to worry about though, human nature wouldn't let it happen

[dust]

Family should stay together and enjoy the strengths of man and woman together, not 2 equals.

 

Can't people complement each other, be strong together, and be equal?

 

What is it you have against equality?

[Astral Monk]

Sex is life.

 

If any part of sex under any context is disgusting then all life is disgusting.

 

And maybe it is...if you live in a rainbow body or something...

 

8)

[z00se]

Can't people complement each other, be strong together, and be equal?

 

What is it you have against equality?

 

Nothing. That is exactly my point. Equal but in different ways.

[blue eyed snake]

that's nice, i found that i was getting my feathers up reading your first comment about equality.

 

still <<Equality of man and woman is a pathway to disaster. We need the differences to maintain the attraction and bring togetherness. Family should stay together and enjoy the strengths of man and woman together, not 2 equals. When everyone is equal there is no need for each other. >>

 

that is what you wrote...so be careful how you formulate your thoughts...

 

we do need equality, that is indeed something else as saying that were the same/ not different.

 

also, not only enjoy the strengths of both female and male, but also being caring of the weaknesses both genders have

[Silent Answers]

I understand the view of keeping to the natural difference in male and female characteristics. But, how much of what you think is male and female, is actually somebody elses programming of what it is to be either one?

 

Women are capable of being physically and emotionally as strong as a male (and just as hairy), while men are able to be as sensitive, and as intuitive as a woman (and just as dramatic).

 

The only real difference is that a woman gives birth, while a male provides the missing ingredient. Due to the lengthy human gestation period, and the slowness of human child development, the male (usually) sticks around to care for his mate and offspring, thus developing a bond. In fact, the male role in the relationship, is that of a care giver. He does this by providing what his mate and child need, food. Today, the whole thing has become twisted. Media continues to brainwash us of what roles we should play.

 

Aren't any extra qualities of male and female roles, simply just social concepts?

Edited June 6, 2015 by Silent Answers

[z00se]

 

 

that's nice, i found that i was getting my feathers up reading your first comment about equality.

 

still <<Equality of man and woman is a pathway to disaster. We need the differences to maintain the attraction and bring togetherness. Family should stay together and enjoy the strengths of man and woman together, not 2 equals. When everyone is equal there is no need for each other. >>

 

that is what you wrote...so be careful how you formulate your thoughts...

 

we do need equality, that is indeed something else as saying that were the same/ not different.

 

also, not only enjoy the strengths of both female and male, but also being caring of the weaknesses both genders have

 

 

 

Sorry, i should have said they shouldn't / can't be equal in every way. Equality in this sense of equal yet different is perception though.

 

I wonder if this gets you're feathers up though....

 

I think men's clubs shouldn't have to allow women at all. Women aren't allowed to play the didgery doo (aboriginal instrument) and i think that's fine. There are lots of other things like this i also believe in. But that's a long list of men can and women can't. There are so many things that women can and men can't do also however.  Eg there are women's aboriginal caves that men can't enter.

 

Maybe it's just because i'm a man, and i hear it this way... but there often seems to be an awful lot of complaining about equality from women's groups that they're not equal to men and they should have this and should have that. I don't hear the same things coming from mens groups. If they want these things why don't they make their own? What do they want to be let into the men's clubs and men's groups? Why can't think their ones are better an be satisfied with that?

 

To me that appears that women in these groups (only a small minority of women actually) feel insubstantial and want to express their unhappiness and push it onto others and make other's (men in these clubs in this case) unhappy also. To me these women are like babies that winge and winge until everybody gets sick of them winging and say alright just give it to them. To these people i say get your own life, get you're own group, you will never get what you want. And they never will, because they will never be happy and always be wanting what they haven't got. I tend to stay away from these types of people because they're just not worth it, however i do get a strong desire to reinforce their insignificance which was the illusion they made for themselves.

 

Why do i think women shouldn't be allowed into mens groups? Because then it's not a mens group any more! It's lost it's specialness. This type of thing goes on and on not just with women but with other minority groups that aren't happy with creating their own rules and governance, but want to be accepted into the larger group definition however they don't want to fit into that larger group definition, they want to keep their minority identifcation. I say if you want to become a part of the majority, then live by it's rules and be one of the majority, if that doesn't 'suit' you because you don't identify with it, well then you want to be a minority, enjoy it. Don't try to weaken and break down the seperation in our society that we purposely created, or then we all have nothing.... and those miserable sods will still be miserable, even if they did drag society down to their level.

Edited June 6, 2015 by z00se

[z00se]

I understand the view of keeping to the natural difference in male and female characteristics. But, how much of what you think is male and female, is actually somebody elses programming of what it is to be either one?

 

Women are capable of being physically and emotionally as strong as a male (and just as hairy), while men are able to be as sensitive, and as intuitive as a woman (and just as dramatic).

 

The only real difference is that a woman gives birth, while a male provides the missing ingredient. Due to the lengthy human gestation period, and the slowness of human child development, the male (usually) sticks around to care for his mate and offspring, thus developing a bond. In fact, the male role in the relationship, is that of a care giver. He does this by providing what his mate and child need, food. Today, the whole thing has become twisted. Media continues to brainwash us of what roles we should play.

 

Aren't any extra qualities of male and female roles, simply just social concepts?

 

But if we want to talk about the majority of cases it forces us to generalize. If we don't generalize we can spend our whole life talking about each individual case and still come to the same conclusion. Generalizing needs to be done, while meanwhile accepting and understanding that there are exceptions to the generalization. The generalization generally still holds true most of the time however, thats why it's called a generalization

[Silent Answers]

But if we want to talk about the majority of cases it forces us to generalize. If we don't generalize we can spend our whole life talking about each individual case and still come to the same conclusion. Generalizing needs to be done, while meanwhile accepting and understanding that there are exceptions to the generalization. The generalization generally still holds true most of the time however, thats why it's called a generalization

Well, I'm talking about social programming, not really anything against generalizing.

 

But if you are going to generalize, generalize completely, past all the individual traits and categories that form the basis for your generalizing. Then, what's left?

 

Nearly all concepts that society has of gender, have been fashioned. I'm arguing that it is not the relationship between male and female that is perverted, it is the mind of today that has been taken for a ride.

[dust]

Women are capable of being physically and emotionally as strong as a male (and just as hairy), while men are able to be as sensitive, and as intuitive as a woman (and just as dramatic).

 

I agree with almost all you said, but would quite like to mention that in my experience, and if we're going to phrase it in any particular way, I'd say that "men are capable of being as emotionally strong as women".

 

 

 

Why do i think women shouldn't be allowed into mens groups? Because then it's not a mens group any more! It's lost it's specialness.

 

If a group of men feel like they need to sit in a room together with a sign on the door saying "No Women", in a free society they should be free to do so. Same with women.

 

But I might question the character of these men, or women.

 

On TDB, there are now the Female & Male subforums, where either gender can go and talk about things that they might be uncomfortable talking about the others with. To me, that's akin to having separate toilets in a bar or separate locker rooms in a gym; in society as we experience it now, we feel uncomfortable sharing certain things with the 'opposite' gender, and many will often feel uncomfortable having the 'opposite' gender share things with them. And in general life, we can take our male or female friends aside, or spend some time with them, and talk to them about whatever. But the idea of a men's only club, or a women's only club, is akin to having a whole Dao Bums forum where only men are allowed, or only women. How stale it would get! Endless topics about semen retention and whose Dao is better, and whatever is being talked about these days in the Women's Sanctuary.

 

Why would anyone want that?

[Brian]

OP, if you find sex disgusting then you should look to see what aspect is causing this problem -- person (people?), motivation, activities, something. It shouldn't seem disgusting.

[lifeforce]

It is the sexual act that brought you into existence. Remember that.