Wang Liping Low Level?

[healingtouch]

 

Ultimately all is dao, however, here on earth the balances are very delicate. We're lucky to be part of such balance. If we move to a very hard extreme all life may end, and will still be part of dao, to eventually transform in different ways, but we may miss an interesting opportunity here. Whatever happens happens. Just in general, self-interest is at odds with the interest of the whole.

 

What many systems that struggle to attain balance don't understand is that to return to balance, all one has to do is stop applying any force in any direction and go into a place of non-action. Then, just like a swing without a rider, it will eventually stop and return to the place of balance on its own. Nature does that with people as well ... No need, in fact, in fact its harmful, to help it by using the human mind to devise a system when nature will do it 10,000 times better on its own. This is why any system that is invented by man to return to balance is inherently senseless. Just like a swing's role is to swing, and not to sit empty, so is a man's role to be in action constantly, to strive to push the boundaries of his nature and nature in general. Rest assured: sooner or later, nature will win, but where is the fun if you let it win without even a struggle on your part. 

 

Quote: "Just in general, self-interest is at odds with the interest of the whole"

 

And this is why many systems that come from cultures where harmony of the whole is  more valued than the reaching of new peaks by the individuals should be viewed with suspicion. Because they are devised to waste the energy of those individuals with too much energy, that could potentially endanger the harmony of the whole. So while they outwardly they appeal to those individuals desire for more of this or that, what they actually do is trick those individuals by sidelining them into a fruitless pursuit meant to empty them of that extra "dangerous" energy until they are safe for society once again. Practical end result: a stagnating society and culture.

[lifeforce]

Wow that first chapter of Wang Liping's rocks - it is definitely the real training and since he says to sit 6 hours full lotus to restore the yuan qi - that indicates it's also the real training.

 

From 'Teacher of Single Yang':

 

” If you sit in Dazuo (a sitting practice in the lotus or a cross-legged practice, a meditation), it is a false calmness, “Yin is caused” by the continuation of this process, and the longer the sitting will last, the paler and the flabbier the face will become and the more worse the health and condition of body will be. Then the Yang jing cannot be retained in the body and will be scattered outside.

 

The seeker of the spiritual practice! First think about an amount of the jing you have, so you're not afraid to exhaust it by sitting, to die even without knowing that it will happen from your practice, unknowingly destroy your soul by an unreasonable predilection of a profane teaching? If this happens, it will be truly sad!"

 

I also have encountered people who sit in meditation for lengthy periods every day. Buddhist monks from the Theravada tradition. Almost all of them looked very pale and weak. The abbot of a nearby monastery was particularly weak and pale. As I went to shake his hand in greeting, I couldn't help but notice his frailty. His hand was very cold,his handshake weak, and his complexion ashen grey. I thought to myself 'this CAN'T be good for one's health, all this sitting'.

[healingtouch]

One dervish to another, What was your vision of God’s presence?
-I haven’t seen anything.
But for the sake of conversation, I’ll tell you a story.

God’s presence is there in front of me, a fire on the left, a lovely
stream on the right.
One group walks toward the fire, into the fire, another toward the
sweet flowing water.
No one knows which are blessed and which not.
Whoever walks into the fire appears suddenly in the stream.
A head goes under on the water surface, that head pokes out of the
fire.

Most people guard against going into the fire, and so end up in it.
Those who love the water of pleasure and make it their devotion are
cheated with this reversal.
The trickery goes further.
The voice of the fire tells the truth saying, I am not fire. I am
fountainhead. Come into me and don’t mind the sparks.

If you are a friend of God, fire is your water.
You should wish to have a hundred thousand sets of mothwings, so you
could burn them away, one set a night.
The moth sees light and goes into the fire. You should see fire and
go toward the light. Fire is what of God- is world-consuming. Water,
world-protecting.

Somehow each gives the appearance of the other. To these eyes you
have now, what looks like water, burns. What looks like fire is
a great relief to be inside.

 

Rumi

[doc benway]

First you say this:

 

Then you say this:

 

I suppose you see not that you are contradicting youself to an awkward degree?

LOL!

My first comment was pointing to what your opinion of a buddha and immortal appears to be.

My second comment refers to my opinion.

I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that. 

 

 

Are you even reading Ken's or my posts?

LOL!

I am and I'm inferring quite a bit from them. 

Thanks

 

edited for grammar

Edited June 6, 2015 by steve

[voidisyinyang]

From 'Teacher of Single Yang':

 

” If you sit in Dazuo (a sitting practice in the lotus or a cross-legged practice, a meditation), it is a false calmness, “Yin is caused” by the continuation of this process, and the longer the sitting will last, the paler and the flabbier the face will become and the more worse the health and condition of body will be. Then the Yang jing cannot be retained in the body and will be scattered outside.

 

The seeker of the spiritual practice! First think about an amount of the jing you have, so you're not afraid to exhaust it by sitting, to die even without knowing that it will happen from your practice, unknowingly destroy your soul by an unreasonable predilection of a profane teaching? If this happens, it will be truly sad!"

 

I also have encountered people who sit in meditation for lengthy periods every day. Buddhist monks from the Theravada tradition. Almost all of them looked very pale and weak. The abbot of a nearby monastery was particularly weak and pale. As I went to shake his hand in greeting, I couldn't help but notice his frailty. His hand was very cold,his handshake weak, and his complexion ashen grey. I thought to myself 'this CAN'T be good for one's health, all this sitting'.

 

Sitting in half lotus of course will cause weakness

 

But full lotus is way different.

 

 

 

Lotus sitting is the most stable posture to keep your up body still grounded, back straight and head balance.  3 points touch the ground ---  two thigh and tail bone area. There are requirements about sitting position. “Waidong gong” [practice of external movement] is used mainly to open up the meridians and getting ‘qi’ fast, but it can only be utilized to transform ‘qi’ [post-heaven qi] into ‘qi’ [pre-heaven qi]. “Zhanzhuang” is used to strengthen the body but cannot be practiced to extremes, neither doing it too much time or using too much strength are good.

Sitting in lotus is the most balanced and it is mainly used to cultivate the heart, the energy and the spirit. Practicing it is best to balance movement and stillness. But if one wants to obtain higher gongfu only doing “waidong gong” is not enough, one has to practice sitting in stillness

 

http://laoziacademy.us/method2.htm

 

Wang Liping on full lotus.

 

Chunyi says also if you want to see if someone is a real teacher - see how long they can sit in full lotus in ease, no movement.

 

For Wang Liping at age 9 - he had too much movement in full lotus - so his teachers tied him down and he went 4 hours with no movement and that opened up his channels.

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[MooNiNite]

Burning paper, walking through walls, special abilities etc etc are NOT the Dao.

Why do so many people think this ?

 

because they are a result of cultivation. they are a result of evolution.

[doc benway]

Your logic equated an immortal spirit with "a superpower of sorts",

even if it was under the presumption that you were reconstructing the logic of others:

 

 

And, as a normal human doesn't have an immortal spirit but a mortal one,

an immortal spirit is of course a super(human) power,

as it is beyond the state of power of an ordinary human being.

Therefore, a Taoist Immortal who by definition has developed an immortal spirit,

became of course a super-human by becoming a Taoist Immortal.

Exactly the point I was making in the post that got your dander up...

And as Vonnegut would say, so it goes...

 

Peace

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[KenBrace]

because they are a result of cultivation. they are a result of evolution.

 

Exactly.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Saw this documentary short about a man in his 80s who had a passion for building birdhouses.

Or fixation perhaps. He was a retired furniture carpenter and wood shop teacher.

Long story short he'd gotten into his head to build the worlds best birdhouse. He ended up with different models for different birds, technical solutions such as a cat safeguard inside (working against cat anatomy, very clever) that doubled as a sitting platform for the young birds. Oak reinforced openings against woodpecker squatters.

 

His idea was to make a house for birds that provided durable shelter and when he tried to get a store to sell them they felt they were going to be too expensive. He didnt care about making money off of it, that was beside the point. One unit had many many hours of work on it by a skilled craftsman.

 

He'd always had fixations in life but had realized that his life was ending and he could take nothing with him through death.

He said that people turning 80 stopped joking about old age because they realized "the party was soon over" (his words), he seemed kind of disgusted with the whole thing.

When he said he was past 80 years my jaw dropped. He seemed more spry than my dad did in his 60s, with none of the frailty and insecurity in his body that people of his age usually display. He took dance classes and stuff, was active and fluid in his work, his voice was strong, eyes and wit quick. He laughed himself to tears when the filmmaker asked if he quit making birdhouses after he heard people referred to him as "Birdhouse", because he couldnt lie about it and he saw just how bizarre and ridiculus it was.

 

It's called "Holkmannen" in Swedish (birdhouse-man), its really enjoyable. He comes off as a person in tune with himself and nature around him. He'll probably teach you how to build a mean birdhouse if you seek him out, and you'll be on your way to mastering fine carpentry, hopefully maintaining your skill and thereby your mind and body until old age, if it catches on with you.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Rocky Lionmouth

[doc benway]

So far you fail to bring up any legitimate argumentation why Taoist Immortals should not be considered as superhumans...

 

I don't feel like arguing.

 

Good luck on your path.

[Jetsun]

John Chang was a Christian who believed in God, his masters immortal spirit after a period of time "went up to God" and their communication stopped, which suggests his spirit wasn't as immortal as some may think, so no matter how superhuman they were or what they achieved energetically in their lives they were still humbled before God and subject to the law of Karma like everyone else.

[ralis]

John Chang was a Christian who believed in God, his masters immortal spirit after a period of time "went up to God" and their communication stopped, which suggests his spirit wasn't as immortal as some may think, so no matter how superhuman they were or what they achieved energetically in their lives they were still humbled before God and subject to the law of Karma like everyone else.

 

 

"Went up to God"? Isn't that the problem? The operative word in that phrase is "up". God is up there somewhere, out of touch and instituted karmic laws to keep the crowd in control. More patriarchal beliefs kept alive through fear.

[KenBrace]

I don't feel like arguing.

 

Good luck on your path.

 

This seems to me like an escape. Pardon me if I'm wrong.

 

John Chang was a Christian who believed in God, his masters immortal spirit after a period of time "went up to God" and their communication stopped, which suggests his spirit wasn't as immortal as some may think, so no matter how superhuman they were or what they achieved energetically in their lives they were still humbled before God and subject to the law of Karma like everyone else.

 

Whatever Kosta talked about in his book regarding the spirit of Chang's master is not something we can comprehend. We honestly have no clue what Chang is talking about. "Going up to god"? What does that even mean? We have no idea. Best to keep it down to Earth and deal with what we know. 

[Daeluin]

Sometimes I wonder if the daoist ideas of heaven and earth subsequently informed christian ideas of the same. But I'm no scholar.

 

The idea of heaven being up makes sense in comparison to gravity, as heaven is associated with what is more refined and has a quicker vibration; what is more spiritual. When what is spiritual is cut from ties to the physical, it is free to float away, to fly off.

 

Certainly many high level beings may exist in heaven, though I like to remember that while matter is a new layer on top of spirit, returning back to spirit isn't fully the way back, but rather one should focus on returning to what comes before spirit/heaven as well, which I like to think of as between the principles of heaven and earth.

 

All pretty simple - simply follow the unpredictable, subtly unfolding layers back to the center.

 

Fear is no worse than any other attachment - all attachments can be used as a temporary compass, and all attachments lead to stagnation when we don't let go, including attachment to judgment.

[KenBrace]

"Went up to God"? Isn't that the problem? The operative word in that phrase is "up". God is up there somewhere, out of touch and instituted karmic laws to keep the crowd in control. More patriarchal beliefs kept alive through fear.

 

Exactly. "Up" came from a primitive culture that believed in a god that lived in the clouds.

 

I'm not sure what Kosta was talking about. He could just be adding his own beliefs into the mix. It's hard to tell. I'm sticking with what I know.

Edited June 7, 2015 by KenBrace

[Daeluin]

This seems to me like an escape.

 

If there is something that can even be escaped from, it is of your own creation.

[KenBrace]

If there is something that can even be escaped from, it is of your own creation.

 

I think you are escaping the debate because you realize that your argument is no longer holding up. But I could always be wrong.

[doc benway]

This seems to me like an escape. Pardon me if I'm wrong.

And this seems like a provocation but you are welcome to call it what you like.

Peace

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Daeluin]

I think you are escaping the debate because you realize that your argument is no longer holding up. But I could always be wrong.

 

What debate?

I am not attached to polarity; it does not interest me, and if invited I prefer to dissolve it back to its origin.

 

Where you see something to oppose, I see something to embrace. Together we are one, whether you accept it or not.

 

The more you attempt to slice and stab, the more elusive I will naturally become, as I hold no interest in feeding your desire to steal from me in the name of proof. The more you attempt to open and share in acceptance, the more you will meet the openness of others and the more your fixed attitude will be able to embrace alternate perspectives without conflicting with those you are attached to. Perhaps you will even find that the concept of proof becomes alive and ever changing within you.

[dwai]

Zoom, aren't you Dorian Black, who was Gary Clyman's internet student? 

[KenBrace]

What debate?

I am not attached to polarity; it does not interest me, and if invited I prefer to dissolve it back to its origin.

 

Where you see something to oppose, I see something to embrace. Together we are one, whether you accept it or not.

 

Honestly, dude, you could become a successful new age guru or at least make a successful weekly esoteric podcast...

[doc benway]

The more you attempt to slice and stab, the more elusive I will naturally become, as I hold no interest in feeding your desire to steal from me in the name of proof. The more you attempt to open and share in acceptance, the more you will meet the openness of others and the more your fixed attitude will be able to embrace alternate perspectives without conflicting with those you are attached to. Perhaps you will even find that the concept of proof becomes alive and ever changing within you.

 

_/\_