3bob Posted June 5, 2015 Is spirit relentlessly seeking you out? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted June 5, 2015 Currently, it seems more like occasionally tapping me on the shoulder from behind and then wiggling its fingers "hi, there" with a knowing little smirk on its face. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted June 5, 2015 I think its one of those "water finds its own level kind of things". If there's more room in your cup, it will pour some more tea in. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted June 5, 2015 "Are you ready?," it whispers. "Yes!," I reply. And so the next lesson begins... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niveQ Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) I have no idea.... De ja Vu, Sleep paralysis, Noises in music becoming one vibration for a short duration... And then there was that time when I begged the universe to show my reality. My eyes rolled back in my head, I felt as if I was traveling through space and I only remember feeling very, very well. I get distracted and wrapped up in smaller things, but I feel an overall progression. Edited June 5, 2015 by niveQ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 6, 2015 In my experience, no. It is an inseparable and fully infused aspect of life and non-life. There is nothing and nowhere that spirit is not, so for it to seek me out, or anything else out is not really possible to me, kind of like trying to bite your own teeth. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bearded Dragon Posted June 6, 2015 Who is seeking who? It's a tiresome question. I don't need to see the engine of the car to drive the car. It's there and it's function is accessible. I know it's there because the car is moving. Why did I want more? It doesn't make sense to want more. That is all I know right now. Searching feels like a dog chasing his tail. Perhaps it's necessary to kickstart refinement, but for me I don't see any benefit in the delusion of aiding a moving wheel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 6, 2015 ...we could modify the question to, "is spirit relentlessly seeking itself out?" (for why else to "go far" and "return" yet never leave?) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBliss Posted June 13, 2015 Is spirit relentlessly seeking you out? Spirit is the ocean surrounding you. It's waves may slap you on the head. But it is not trying to get your attention. It knows you will become aware of it when ou are ready. It knows you came here for a certain life experience, which it is experiencing through you, and is perfectly content to let you do your thing. When you are ready to become aware of it, that is when it will make its presence known. "Ask and you shall receive." BTW You can make no mistakes and do no wrong. So spirit would have no need to relentlessly or otherwise seek you out. Because even if you completely fuck up your life, everything is OK. Spirt just loves and accept you, no matter what you do! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) Dreambliss, I know what you mean on the Spirit level - but lets not forget that karma is relentless and so are lots of other things like evolution, change, flow, etc.. and must be dealt with. (along with the fact that Spirit through permutation powers all such factors mentioned above) Edited June 14, 2015 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBliss Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) All such factors that you list are powered by spirit through beliefs. Death, karma and sin only exist because people believe they do. Change is only inevitable because you believe it is. Evolution happens because you believe it must. You are a co-creator with millions of other humans of this fantasy and all its apparent reality. But apparent reality only appears to be reality. When all is said and done only one thing remains - spirit. None of these other things are real. But spirit is real, because spirit never changes, it only appears to do so. Edited June 14, 2015 by DreamBliss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9th Posted June 14, 2015 The world is such-and-such or so-and-so only because we tell ourselves that that is the way it is. If we stop telling ourselves that the world is so-and-so, the world will stop being so-and-so. You must start slowly to undo the world. Your problem is that you confuse the world with what people do. The things people do are the shields against the forces that surround us; what we do as people gives us comfort and makes us feel safe; what people do is rightfully very important, but only as a shield. We never learn that the things we do as people are only shields and we let them dominate and topple our lives. In fact I could say that for mankind, what people do is greater and more important than the world itself. The world is all that is encased here; life, death, people, the allies, and everything else that surrounds us. The world is incomprehensible. We won't ever understand it; we won't ever unravel its secrets. Thus we must treat it as it is, a sheer mystery! An average man doesn't do this, though. The world is never a mystery for him, and when he arrives at old age he is convinced he has nothing more to live for. An old man has not exhausted the world. He has exhausted only what people do. But in his stupid confusion he believes that the world has no more mysteries for him. What a wretched price to pay for our shields! A warrior is aware of this confusion and learns to treat things properly. The things that people do cannot under any conditions be more important than the world. And thus a warrior treats the world as an endless mystery and what people do as an endless folly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 14, 2015 They show themselves when needed....for me, they are mostly sambhogakaya beings. Higher, realized beings only exist in visions. That's how they dispense their teaching and wisdom. You get visitations from them. They teach you things. I have seen a lot of them. Buddhist monks...I saw few of them. Lower beings? Beings that you would find horrifying? On few occassions, I saw them as vampires. And they took the form of my old boss and upper managers. hahahahahah.... The general understanding is that you are what you can attract...just saying... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tibetan_Ice Posted June 14, 2015 ... BTW You can make no mistakes and do no wrong. So spirit would have no need to relentlessly or otherwise seek you out. Because even if you completely fuck up your life, everything is OK. Spirt just loves and accept you, no matter what you do! Then how do explain the fact that most, if not all religions teach ethics and morals? They distinguish between good and bad. Does it work like this: you molest a child or murder someone and spirit, being incapable of sensing that these acts are wrong, returns the experience back to you many times over? I once read in a Buddhist book that a certain person was destined to two hundred lifetimes of being ruthlessly murdered because they themselves had murdered someone. Perhaps we have to define a difference between love and acceptance? It is possible to love yourself or someone else while at the same time not accepting your/their behaviors, isn't it? Is morality only a tool of the conceptual mind and spirit is beyond? Does not your heart cry out in despair as you twist the knife and watch the lifeblood drain away from your hapless victim? I think you are approaching a borderline that resembles some crazy form of nihilism... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 14, 2015 all such factors are connected not by belief (although there is some of that) but by energetic fact... and dharma law! Such is also called Om or aspects of or related to same. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9th Posted June 14, 2015 machine was humming OMMMMMMMMM..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBliss Posted June 15, 2015 Then how do explain the fact that most, if not all religions teach ethics and morals? They distinguish between good and bad. Does it work like this: you molest a child or murder someone and spirit, being incapable of sensing that these acts are wrong, returns the experience back to you many times over? I once read in a Buddhist book that a certain person was destined to two hundred lifetimes of being ruthlessly murdered because they themselves had murdered someone. Perhaps we have to define a difference between love and acceptance? It is possible to love yourself or someone else while at the same time not accepting your/their behaviors, isn't it? Is morality only a tool of the conceptual mind and spirit is beyond? Does not your heart cry out in despair as you twist the knife and watch the lifeblood drain away from your hapless victim? I think you are approaching a borderline that resembles some crazy form of nihilism... I may attempt to answer your questions later. For now I will say only this... Bad and good, right and wrong exist only in duality, only in the perception of humans who live in a dualistic physical world. Only humans have the need for the punishment of those they collectively feel have done wrong. Do you see mice getting together to lynch the cat that killed one of them? I hate to break it to you, but when you leave this physical world, if you decide to make your way down to hell, the only people you will find there are those who believe they must be there, and they will only be there as long as they believe or feel they must be there. Hitler will not be found roasting on a spit somewhere, no matter how many people might wish it so. Spirit lives beyond or outside of duality. Spirit does not see bad, good, right or wrong. So there is no judgment, karma or sin, because there is nothing to be punished. I am sorry if you don't like this, but that is the way it is, and you will see for yourself when your physical life is over. You would not condemn an actor killing another actor on the screen to death for the murder. Nether will any of us, actors playing our roles all, be held accountable in any way for our actions while in the physical. How could God condemn and judge itself? The only consequences exist in the physical, within current human society. Earlier version of human society held different views, Later versions of human society will hold different views. The teachings in every religion of judgment, karma and sin are simply behavioral controls, an attempt to control the behavior of others. It is no different than your mother or father telling you fairy stories about what would happen if you went out into the woods at night. It was just to keep you out of the woods, to protect you and keep you safe. There is no more judgment, karma and sin then there are monsters under your bed! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBliss Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) all such factors are connected not by belief (although there is some of that) but by energetic fact... and dharma law! Such is also called Om or aspects of or related to same. All facts are subjective, a way of saying something is so with such knowledge as is available. Since you don't know everything (or don't remember you are God and know everything) you can not draw any certain facts. They used to say it was a fact that the world was flat. There is no law. Spirit has no need for laws, so laws do not exist outside the dualistic, physical world. The best way to learn the truth about life, in your own personal experience, is to simply throw out all these damn rule books you have been lugging around! Edited June 15, 2015 by DreamBliss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tibetan_Ice Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) I may attempt to answer your questions later. For now I will say only this... Bad and good, right and wrong exist only in duality, only in the perception of humans who live in a dualistic physical world. Only humans have the need for the punishment of those they collectively feel have done wrong. Do you see mice getting together to lynch the cat that killed one of them? I hate to break it to you, but when you leave this physical world, if you decide to make your way down to hell, the only people you will find there are those who believe they must be there, and they will only be there as long as they believe or feel they must be there. Hitler will not be found roasting on a spit somewhere, no matter how many people might wish it so. Spirit lives beyond or outside of duality. Spirit does not see bad, good, right or wrong. So there is no judgment, karma or sin, because there is nothing to be punished. I am sorry if you don't like this, but that is the way it is, and you will see for yourself when your physical life is over. You would not condemn an actor killing another actor on the screen to death for the murder. Nether will any of us, actors playing our roles all, be held accountable in any way for our actions while in the physical. How could God condemn and judge itself? The only consequences exist in the physical, within current human society. Earlier version of human society held different views, Later versions of human society will hold different views. The teachings in every religion of judgment, karma and sin are simply behavioral controls, an attempt to control the behavior of others. It is no different than your mother or father telling you fairy stories about what would happen if you went out into the woods at night. It was just to keep you out of the woods, to protect you and keep you safe. There is no more judgment, karma and sin then there are monsters under your bed! I challenge you to define duality or nonduality. There is no such thing. It is just a term that someone invented because their conceptual mind had no idea of string theory. Simply speaking, duality does not exist because upon close examination, there is no subject. If there is no subject, then how can the object exist? Thus, if duality does not truly exist, how can its counterpart exist? It is absurd. I don't pretend to know the mind of God... But if there was such a thing, I'm sure it would have the ability to destroy as well as create. The decision to destroy is based on judgement. Yet you say that something with infinite wisdom is incapable of judgement? Yes, karma has been used as a tool to control the masses, it doesn't invalidate karma. Many things have been used to control the masses... theat of force, advertising, laws, fear, religion ... So what? Your view that we are all actors on the stage and that nothing matters is extremist and faulty. If nothing truly matters why don't you put your hand on a red hot stove element? Would it hurt so good? Or hurt so bad? If we are all only actors, then that precludes any chance of enlightenment. Actors don't get enlightened do they? What is the part of the actor that wakes up? I get the impression that you are saying that that just isn't possible.... You say that as actors our actions are inconsequential. If that is the case, how can inconsequential actions produce true enlightenment? According to Buddha, it is all karma.. From "In The Buddha's Words". By Bhikkhu Bodhi: The Nikāyas themselves do not give any systematic explanation of dependent origination in the way one might expect a college textbook to do. Thus, for a clear explanation, we must rely on the commentaries and expository treatises that have come down from the Early Buddhist schools. Despite minor differences in details, these concur on the general meaning of this ancient formula, which might be briefly summarized as follows: Because of (1) ignorance ( avijjā ), lack of direct knowledge of the Four Noble Truths, we engage in wholesome and unwholesome activities of body, speech, and mind; these are (2) volitional formations ( saṅkhārā ), in other words, kamma. Volitional formations sustain consciousness from one life to the next and determine where it re- arises; in this way volitional formations condition (3) consciousness ( viññāṇa ). Along with consciousness, beginning from the moment of conception, comes (4) “name- and- form” ( nāmarūpa ), the sentient organism with its physical form ( rūpa ) and its sensitive and cognitive capacities ( nāma ). The sentient organism is equipped with (5) six sense bases ( saḷāyatana ), the five physical sense faculties and the mind as organ of cognition. The sense bases allow (6) contact ( phassa ) to occur between consciousness and its objects, and contact conditions (7) feeling ( vedanā ). Called into play by feeling, (8) craving ( taṇhā ) arises, and when craving intensifies it gives rise to (9) clinging ( upādāna ), tight attachment to the objects of desire through sensuality and wrong views. Impelled by our attachments, we again engage in volitional actions pregnant with (10) a new existence ( bhava ). At death this potential for new existence is actualized in a new life beginning with (11) birth ( jāti ) and ending in (12) aging- and- death ( jarāmaraṇa ). 4 Edited June 15, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seeker of Wisdom Posted June 15, 2015 [...]Yes, karma has been used as a tool to control the masses, it doesn't invalidate karma. [...] If nothing truly matters why don't you put your hand on a red hot stove element? Would it hurt so good? Or hurt so bad? [...] Bump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBliss Posted June 15, 2015 Your view that we are all actors on the stage and that nothing matters is extremist and faulty. If nothing truly matters why don't you put your hand on a red hot stove element? Would it hurt so good? Or hurt so bad? If we are all only actors, then that precludes any chance of enlightenment. Actors don't get enlightened do they? What is the part of the actor that wakes up? I get the impression that you are saying that that just isn't possible.... You say that as actors our actions are inconsequential. If that is the case, how can inconsequential actions produce true enlightenment? Putting my hand on a hot stove would only have physical consequences. Who I really am would remain unaffected. We become enlightened when we see past the masks. As long as we see only the masks, as long as we are focused on the world of form, we will not become enlightened. When the actor realizes they are playing a part, and stop identifying with their role, that, I think, is enlightenment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Spirit is also of the first and last law, including the deepest, highest, fairest, truest, etc. and etc. terms that try to allude to it although still can't nail it down... Btw, "I hate to break it to you" but a neo-mumbo-jumbo-tumble of new age type terms presented on a silver platter is at least half-baked imo Edited June 15, 2015 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 15, 2015 I don't want to get into too much but Karma is real. Why? With enough good karma and merit accumlated in your past life, you can achieve enlightenment within this life time even without burying yourself into the Buddhist scriptures. You would just become enlightened naturally...see pratyekabuddha and samyaksambuddha. These are "self enlightened Buddhas" comparing to theravada buddha or arhatship. Of course, you know nothing about your karma if you haven't resolved any of your karma in your current life time. I don't need to lie to you and just look at your dreams and the type of dreams you get. They are your karma there!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 15, 2015 Agreed Chiforce, in that karma is also an energetic type of reality that has to be dealt with - carefully. (and at all levels including what is commonly recognized or agreed upon as "dreams") Share this post Link to post Share on other sites