Is joy (bliss) a marker on the way?

[idiot_stimpy]

I've only felt sexual orgasmic bliss from the middle of my head once. It was quite a shock as it was in the wrong location.

Edited June 9, 2015 by idiot_stimpy

[Jeff]

I've only felt sexual orgasmic bliss from the middle of my head once. It was quick a shock as it was in the wrong location.

 

Try moving it around the body some time and see what you get. The heart can be especially powerful. I know a bunch of people who even call them heart orgasms.

[idiot_stimpy]

Try moving it around the body some time and see what you get. The heart can be especially powerful. I know a bunch of people who even call them heart orgasms.

 

I have no control over this. It occurred for 10 to 15 seconds and has never occurred again.

[Bindi]

If you would, consider the possibility that your bliss and energy are just two sides of the same coin. As mental clarity increases, your bliss becomes increasingly abiding (and energy flows become as smooth as silk).

 

If I really stick to my dream context, which was the impetus for this thread after all, bliss arose after absolute emotional clarity had been first realised, and then transcended.

[Jeff]

I have no control over this. It occurred for 10 to 15 seconds and has never occurred again.

 

It probably related to some release (or expansion), a subconscious energy flow. I am sure you will have more such in the future.

[3bob]

Jeff, Since you have not mentioned a  particular school setup or lineage (that you are part of and qualified in) and thus going by that have no means to carry out the responsibilities of a qualified teacher one might ask what in the hell are you doing?  (other than giving basic advice and basic principals or information, btw I'd say the same goes for most of here)

Edited June 9, 2015 by 3bob

[Jeff]

If I really stick to my dream context, which was the impetus for this thread after all, bliss arose after absolute emotional clarity had been first realised, and then transcended.

 

Makes sense to me. How do you define "absolute emotional clarity"? Does that mean past all anger and irritation? Things like that?

[idiot_stimpy]

He is giving advice as a spiritual friend.

[Jeff]

Jeff, Since you have not mentioned a  particular school setup or lineage (that you are part of and qualified in) and thus going by that have no means to carry out the responsibilities of a qualified teacher one might ask what in the hell are you doing?  (other than giving basic advice and basic principals or information, btw I'd say the same goes for most of here)

 

Just sharing my personal experience that I felt might be helpful. Also, I take responsibility for my suggestions.

 

But yes, I am happy to add the disclaimer... Speaking on my own authority.

[Jonesboy]

Jeff, Since you have not mentioned a  particular school setup or lineage (that you are part of and qualified in) and thus going by that have no means to carry out the responsibilities of a qualified teacher one might ask what in the hell are you doing?  (other than giving basic advice and basic principals or information, btw I'd say the same goes for most of here)

 

Hi 3bob,

 

I would say Jeff is helping people achieve in a real way what he posts.

 

Like this:

 

 

In the definition, darkness just really means something like "obscured view", and so yes one leaves behind or moves beyond such beliefs/perspectives (or view). The 5th in other translations is also called "hard to teach". This is because at this level, one is now radiating wisdom/light (4th) and it can directly affect those around you. A new level of interaction with other sentient beings begins. This new level is not something that can't really be taught, and also these new connections can become overwhelming, resulting in a falling back. If one continues, the early stage sambhogkaya begins to manifest (6th) and later it becomes increasingly unbounded (7th - gone afar).

 

Best wishes,

 

Tom

[Silent Answers]

^^^ I hadn't seen that before, thanks for reposting it. Quite the gem.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Do not pull orgasmic energy from the head into the heart.

It is dangerous and could cause heart attacks.

The heart needs no coarse energy to disturb it.

The heart radiates outwards, the light of a billion Suns, all on its own. Give it a try. You might like it.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[Jeff]

There is no pulling of energy from the head to the heart, it is more that the energy flows with ones attention/focus. And while a broader heart opening can feel pretty powerful/overwhelming, it does not lead to a heart attack.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Jeff

[ChiForce]

No....go research a bit on jhanas and there are 4 levels.  You have to be at the 4th level to become closer to a full blown liberation.  At the 4th level, even bliss itself isn't real.   

[3bob]

Chiforce, post 67 sounds like Buddhist sourced descriptions... but go back and look at the op of this string which btw. isn't limited to the sub-forum or context of Buddhism.

[ケンジ]

Chiforce, post 67 sounds like Buddhist sourced descriptions... but go back and look at the op of this string which btw. isn't limited to the sub-forum or context of Buddhism.

I don't blame him, for some reason I jumped to the assumption we were referring to the enlightenment one attains on the Buddhist path when I read the title of the thread and the first post, even though there was no mention of Buddhism.

 

Btw great book if Jhana study catches your interest, http://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-Bliss-Beyond-Meditators-Handbook/dp/0861712757

 

So this is a thread discussing states of bliss on the path to realizing the Way, through any way?

 

Escaping birth and death is escaping birth and death folks. That's not going to happen if one is still attaching to sexual desire and lust. (Nor any attachments for that matter really, I am still attached to many things and having a female in my life, but I realize sex desire is what keeps one coming into the womb not to speak of the nether realms)

 

So specifying this is not limited to Buddhism, let me just add my own 2 cents limited to Buddhism as if any more 2 cents are needed in this thread with all that has been covered already,

 

I am a Mahayana practicioner. Let me just say my Teacher has made it clear that seeking bliss for oneself is not the right way, in that if you are practicing just to 'bliss out'. Of course joy is a natural fruit of the path. Of course the Buddha's intention was to save beings from birth and death so they could attain the lasting bliss of Nirvana. Of course the Dharma and practice bring bliss to beings. Of course it is a natural fruit of practice but it should not be SOUGHT after nor should it be attached to.

 

www.dharmabliss.org has some great quotes and Sutra excerpts on it if anyone is curious,

 

'The bliss of still extinction – the principle of emptiness – is tens of millions of times more intense than the bliss derived from external physical gratification. If you want that experience, though, you must first stop your involvement with external sensory experiences. Otherwise, the True Emptiness within you cannot manifest. (Sur.roll 9)'

Edited June 12, 2015 by ケンジ

[3bob]

Post 69: That sounds like an ok description related to the context of Buddhism, but I'd say the op definitely had a Sanatana Dharma sounding context/implication... Btw could you perhaps add a few English characters to your name since many here do not have knowledge of or the translation and font for the way your handle is posted?

[Bindi]

Makes sense to me. How do you define "absolute emotional clarity"? Does that mean past all anger and irritation? Things like that?

 

I would define absolute emotional clarity as an end point in the clearing process, though not the end point on the path.

 

For myself, the clearing process includes:

 

Removing the mind’s habitual hijackers such as fear, shame/guilt, and anger. I include desire here as a hijacker, though I don’t believe it needs to be removed entirely, but merely well contained.

 

Clearing the chakras.

 

Resolving and then burning karmic issues.

 

Stagnant emotional energy that still remains throughout the body after these processes have been completed needs to still be removed, and in my understanding this is achieved by activating the minor chakra to the left of the heart, Hrit. My personal understanding of Hrit is that when it is activated it acts like a vortex, similar to the filter in a pool, and all the final layers of waste and emotional overflow are drawn into this vortex.

 

This system would also ensure that no new impurities are added, and no new karmas.

[ChiForce]

Chiforce, post 67 sounds like Buddhist sourced descriptions... but go back and look at the op of this string which btw. isn't limited to the sub-forum or context of Buddhism.

I thought enlightenment is enlightenment.  I didn't know there are different kinds of enlightenments, silly me.    

[dawei]

 

I would define absolute emotional clarity as an end point in the clearing process, though not the end point on the path.

 

Does this include mental clarity for you, is that separate or combined ?  

[3bob]

Yes Chiforce, how silly of all the hundreds of different spiritual schools with their hundreds of different masters with their many different teachings, definitions and vested interests, thus they almost never get together for a Sunday tofu and vegetable cookout along with near beer....seeing that they don't see eye to eye

[ChiForce]

Yes Chiforce, how silly of all the hundreds of different spiritual schools with their hundreds of different masters with their many different teachings, definitions and vested interests, thus they almost never get together for a Sunday tofu and vegetable cookout along with near beer....seeing that they don't see eye to eye

They differ in their methods, not the nature of the mind reality, which is non-duality, the source of consciousness...which is characterized by the white illuminous light.....Dzogchen's Clear Light Mind, Taoist's "golden light,".......  Yes, is silly to define the nature of the mind differently than what it is in reality......  I don't indulge in definitions because when your mind is in a state of samadhi or Jhana, you don't define anything.  The nature of mind, rigpa, would appear.  Is that simple.       

[3bob]

is that so?  Or that may be so for Buddhists in general but I wouldn't make the major assumption that you are for schools and masters that are not part of the Buddhist Dharma. 

 

Btw, "mind / reality" is at least a contradiction in terms and or lower level relative reality to many.

Edited June 12, 2015 by 3bob

[Bindi]

I thought enlightenment is enlightenment.  I didn't know there are different kinds of enlightenments, silly me.    

 

Buddhism does not describe the state of liberation as pure bliss.

 

Hinduism on the other hand sees liberation as including an endless state of bliss.

 

If all roads lead to the same enlightenment, I wonder how this difference can be explained?

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Buddhism does not describe the state of liberation as pure bliss.

 

Hinduism on the other hand sees liberation as including an endless state of bliss.

 

If all roads lead to the same enlightenment, I wonder how this difference can be explained?

Hmmm. It depends on what you read...

 

From Buddhahood Without Meditation:

Kuntuzangpo-is what is meant by the phrase 'the one who has gone to bliss throughout the three times.'

 

From The Yeshe Lama: Lama Chonam and Sangye Khandro

Then, he had a pure vision oflhangtong Gyalpo, a sage of longevity; and, forJigmed Lingpa, all the happenings merged into the union of bliss and emptiness. Thereupon, he sang the power of his realization in the following words:

I bow to the lord, the Great Sage [Thangtong Gyalpo]!

I have realized the summit ofthe views, the Great Perfection.

 

From Golden letters:

The goal or fruit of the Vajrayana is the realization of the Three Bodies of the Buddha, or Trikaya (sku gsum). Here the Form Body is twofold: (1) the Sambhogakaya (longs-sku), the Body of Perfect Bliss, which manifests in Akanishtha ('og-min), the highest plane of existence, and nowhere else; and (2) the Nirmanakaya (sprul-sku), the Body of Emanation, which manifests on the physical and astral planes within time and history.

 

There is bliss in the three first jhanas a too. Edited June 12, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice