When working becomes difficult

[Boy]

You really have no clue.

[idiot_stimpy]

You really have no clue.

 

Who me? 

 

I'm sorry, forgive me.

[Brian]

Tossing breadcrumbs is generally preferable to tossing rocks -- unless the purpose is to injure.

[Bindi]

 

In the Seth Material there is a chapter about how the dementia or senility we see in the elderly is actually due to the same reasons as awakening.  These people are spontaneously entering an enlarged state of being and have left their former egoic concerns very suddenly and very completely behind.

 

In our society we think about dementia as nothing other than neural degradation.  We do not suppose that the neural changes are simply mirroring a cataclysmic spiritual shift.  We pathologise the process; we try to fight it with cognitive enhancing medication; but what we do not do is recognise the benefit of the process.  The elderly person interprets the early signs as something wrong and fearful, we all cling on to their times of lucidity and nobody is able to trust the process and welcome it.

 

If we had the wisdom to welcome the process we would suffer less from it.  Senility first arises in a gentle way in most people in their fifties.  This is when the fear surrounding it subtly begins. If at this point we could welcome it, I would suggest that dementia as a phase could be entered, dealt with, and left behind within a decade.  What would follow would be an old age of a lucidity that the young would envy.  

 

It is a well-known fact that dementia rates vary hugely across nations.  The Japanese in particular are protected from it.  It is often thought that the high Omega-3 diet is playing a role.  I would suggest that Emptiness is a concept intrinsic to the Japanese psyche, and so when emptiness strikes it is not pathologised to the same degree.

 

Some food for thought!

 

Dementia is mainly caused by toxic waste from plaque, which builds up when the lymph system loses the efficiency to be able to remove the plaque. A certain happiness can be realised in dementia patients, because they do tend to forget their 'issues', but it isn't an increase in consciousness, merely an increase in forgetfulness.

[Nikolai1]

Hi Bindi - of course what you are saying is the usual materialist explanation for dementia: the brain changes and so consciousness changes.

 

But for those who have understood the emptiness of their true nature, both the brain and the consciousness become mirrors of each other. It makes no sense to try and set up causal links between them. Such a person is fully conscious of why senility might occur. They understand that it is their sense of being ego that plaques over, but not their essential self. And because they understand, they know that there is more to selfhood than ego, and their lived reality is therefoe able to pass through the senility into a new and even greater lucidity.

 

What I'm explaining is a radically new way of looking at dementia and only really comprehendable to those with the higher experiences of self hood. It is a possibility only available to the few.

[Silent Answers]

I don't believe that anyone with a mental illness feels this way.

 

It's a nice notion, sure. But, when we lose our selves, we do it voluntarily. The fear of death may fade, but nobody would then want to die. Slipping away with no choice to return, that's no fun at all.

 

You could write with a pen until all the ink runs out...or you could unscrew the cap and throw the ink away. In the end you're still just left with an empty pen, right? But, the pen was never the focus. It's how the pen was used that counts. One person walks away without any understanding of what has happened, and has no way to follow, no way to return. The other, having understood the true importance of the ink, thought about each word very carefully before spending any of his supply. They may reach a point where words no longer be written down, but that doesn't mean they haven't the capacity.

[Nikolai1]

It's a nice notion, sure. But, when we lose our selves, we do it voluntarily.

Yes, this is more of the conventional view.  I'm simply saying that the conscious cultivation changes us physically; but when these same changes occur naturally, unconsciously and involuntarily, they are often thought about in pathological terms.

 

Spiritual growth is essentially an acceleration of the changes that happen naturally, but more slowly over the lifespan.  The seeker speeds up their life, encounters death early, and then passes beyond it into a kind of rebirth.  Many masters have insisted that the 'death of self', so often understood figuratively, is also a physical and clinical phenomenon.  UG Krishnamurti is one recent teacher who insisted on this point.

 

Anybody who has understood the nature of their true identity will before long pass through a phase, identical in every respect, to the dementia we associate with much older people.  

[Silent Answers]

On that we'll have to agree to disagree. The way I see it, one is losing mind, the other is freeing it, and in doing so gaining more.

[Nikolai1]

That's exactly how I see it too!

[vonkrankenhaus]

There is a trend in the fake culture whereby various degenerative conditions are whitewashed - brain-damaged "ADHD" children are rewritten as "special", with "unique intelligence", etc, etc.

 

And there are psychological shell games, wherein degenerative illness is represented as if it were some sort of "coming of age" thing that would produce or represent accelerated "self-development".

 

We should be clear about what is degeneration and damage and what is growth and health.

 

To have a set of beliefs, and then to see through those, is not equal to a degenerative illness.
- It is merely the degeneration of belief.

If the beliefs were basic and pervasive, then the degeneration of the need to believe them is what has happened - not necessarily the degeneration of the ability to believe them.

 

When we degenerate our beliefs, it is like then trying to decide what to do about Santa Claus.
When we ourselves degenerate, it is like degenerating - like if an infection, or cancer, rotted off our toes.

 

Those are two different things.

 

Degeneration, illness, and sickness are all benevolent signs that we have strayed very far from Tao, from the Natural Order by which our lives, and all lives, are appearing and disappearing.

 

This is why we must not be confused about these things.

 

It is like misinterpreting a "message from God", and may render that benevolence useless.

 

And it may get in our way of truly understanding how and why we are becoming sick and degenerating, and changing or reversing the correct things towards gaining or recovering normal human health and functions.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[idiot_stimpy]

There is also forgetting of complex mental systems due to lack of use.

 

 

Try remembering and applying something you learnt in school and never used such as advanced maths. Chances are you can't remember because it was too long ago and has not crossed your mind since.

 

I think its normal to forget things you haven't used or don't deem now important.

 

When some things are seen through, maybe those also forget them because they have no use or need for them anymore?

[Nikolai1]

About the relationship between awakening and dementia there is no right or wrong answer. It is more like a spectrum. The person who is very low in consciousness will exhibit the plaquing of the brain cells as senility as we all understand it. All they are is egoic consciousness, and this they will lose.

 

People who have high consciousness will pass through senility and out again. They are more than just egoic consciousness, therefore there will be an essential self remaining after the loss of ego, though their brain be just as plaqued over.

 

And there is everything in between.

[idiot_stimpy]

About the relationship between awakening and dementia there is no right or wrong answer. It is more like a spectrum. The person who is very low in consciousness will exhibit the plaquing of the brain cells as senility as we all understand it. All they are is egoic consciousness, and this they will lose.

 

People who have high consciousness will pass through senility and out again. They are more than just egoic consciousness, therefore there will be an essential self remaining after the loss of ego, though their brain be just as plaqued over.

 

And there is everything in between.

 

 

I think I read somewhere that meditation activates the frontal lobes and fights off illnesses like dementia which is a degradation of the frontal lobes?

[Brian]

I think I read somewhere that meditation activates the frontal lobes and fights off illnesses like dementia which is a degradation of the frontal lobes?

So does doing word searches and crossword puzzles.

 

A lifetime of not ingesting aluminum helps, too...

 

[Nikolai1]

The dementia of the meditator would be a plaquing followed by a deplaquing. It may last only a few years.

[idiot_stimpy]

Amyloid plaques are clumps of beta-amyloid. Beta-amyloid is a piece of a protein that is found in the normal brain. However, in AD, these beta-amyloid proteins clump together forming plaques that can disrupt communication between nerve cells and cause brain inflammation. People with AD have an abundance of these plaques in their hippocampus, which is a part of the brain that is involved in memory. One aspect of memory that is frequently disrupted in AD is the transfer of short-term memories into long-term memories.

 

Seems like memory loss is not related to the frontal lobes at all.

[Nikolai1]

I'm talking about dementia generally, which can affect any part of the brain.

[dwai]

I see some Buddhist practitioners who experienced an ever-deepening insight of reality actually become more engaging with life in a positive, contributory way. 

 

The way i see it, awakening without mindfulness is only half the fruit. 

 

Mindfulness means presentfulness. Presence to thoughts, to deeds, to each word spoken.. that is the aim. 

 

Present to others, to what is immediate in each moment.

Present enough to be able to practice kindness. 

 

If you have basic kindness in your heart, nothing is difficult. 

 

Awakening is not an amazing experience, at least not one for the experiencer to say. 

Awakening only becomes meaningful where others are relieved of their anguish and misery thru your stepping over the threshold. If its only you who see delight in your own wonderful deeds, its not real progress. 

True compassion can be cruel, and it's nature depends on the circumstances. You think those Christian evangelists who feel "compassion" for their fellow human being have a positive effect in the world? I don't think so - they cause more strife and pain.

 

I think relevant to the OP is a concept I'd read about in Carlos Castaneda's writings a long time ago - it is called "Controlled Folly". I think that is very imperative to do justice to this physical husk and it's various commitments and promises through the natural course of it's duration. 

 

It's funny, my friend and I were having a conversation about being "enlightened" and staying in the non-dual state forever. I am of the opinion (after years of practice and contemplation) that it will not be practical to stay in the non-dual state forever. Our physical body will die if that were to be the case. 

[Spotless]

From C T :

 

<< Quote: "In my understanding, awakening will only be complete where there is an overflowing of compassion arising from, and not limited to, an amplified recognition that others are just as in need of the freedom (& the resulting fruits thereof) that one has glimpsed, and realising the immediacy of this, one will swiftly engage, rather than disengage and withdraw, from those things that one considers 'mundane', because the reality is, 'mundane' and 'extraordinary' are not two things. When one can bring 'magic' to the mundane, so that others who are experiencing it can sense the extraordinary in their mundaneness thru your realisation that is the mark or yardstick of a truly awakening process.

 

Does it make sense to say one is experiencing awakening when others, being honest, will say they are not being supported by it? There is a level of refinement of the senses in the awakening process, where awareness becomes more inclusive (self) and expansive (others) simultaneously, and not just 'inclusive'. It is definitely not a dullish process. >> End Quote

 

You a quite off the mark in this quote from above, but in subtle ways that are common misnomers.

Quote with comments below:

 

"In my understanding, awakening will only be complete [complete is a very confining term] where there is an overflowing of compassion arising [this is misleading - their is encompassing compassion but it does not feel arising and overflowing while indeed it may be as seen as such from the outside, though in certain stages there is an inundation of love and compassion] from, and not limited to, an amplified recognition that others are just as in need of the freedom (& the resulting fruits thereof) that one has glimpsed [one has not glimpsed it - our premise is not an awakening experience -it is Awakening] and realising the immediacy of this, [there is NO immediacy - immediacy in the sense of urgency is dropped entirely along with identification with a cause] one will swiftly engage, rather than disengage and withdraw, from those things that one considers 'mundane', because the reality is, 'mundane' and 'extraordinary' are not two things.

When one can bring 'magic' to the mundane, so that others who are experiencing it can sense the extraordinary in their mundaneness thru your realisation that is the mark or yardstick of a truly awakening process. [some who are awakened have a flair for showmanship, but showmanship is not the mark or yardstick "of a truly awakening process". Nor is becoming a teacher or a prophet or a sage or a writer. It is a very personal experience, and in the silence you come to find your calling - you do not design it - you slowly come to discover it - and it may not appear as you have stated]

Does it make sense to say one is experiencing awakening when others, being honest, will say they are not being supported by it? [yes it does - there are many that will hear that do not hear] There is a level of refinement of the senses in the awakening process, where awareness becomes more inclusive (self) and expansive (others) simultaneously, and not just 'inclusive'. It is definitely not a dullish process. . [you have taken the explanations of many and heard Dull, but never did they mean to imply dullness] (unfortunately my time has been cut short in editing this)

Edited June 11, 2015 by Spotless

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"I'm talking about dementia generally, which can affect any part of the brain."

-----

 

Are you? Or are you talking about an "identity crisis"?

 

Brain degeneration and damage - or damage to one's beliefs?

 

People in the modern era have been artificially grown and cultivated to perform work and to follow certain beliefs about what and who they are. This always results in some sort of "collapse of belief" or "identity" crisis, because human beings are not actually any of this - and life will provide many clues of this that will not, and cannot, be just "wished away" or "believed away" or made to appear as a "fault" of ours.

 

The kind of physically measurable neurological degeneration that is common today is a full-on effect of the massive assault on human beings that we somehow have been trained to call "progress" - like the direct injection of neurotoxic chemicals and metals into our blood, the chemically-designed "food" pranks being played on us, and the direct pumping of toxins into the overall environment from which we and our "food" are arising from and returning to.

 

These are two different things.

 

One is disillusionment, and the other is degeneration or "destruction".

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Spotless]

Hi all,

 

In a different thread, Spotless mentioned briefly that working and everyday functioning can be difficult in the aftermath of an awakening episode. I asked him to elaborate and he answered with this:

 

 

I would love to hear if anyone has experience of this or further reflections. Many thanks.

Just a note - I was not speaking about an Awakening episode - that is very different in the sense that an "episode" is more like a glimpse or short lived peek into awakening. "Episodes" can be very clarifying and exciting but they are not Awakening.

 

One might suddenly inherit a fair bit of money that allows one to "Be Rich" for a summer, but one has not become rich.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Spotless

[Nikolai1]

Just a note - I was not speaking about an Awakening episode - that is very different in the sense that an "episode" is more like a glimpse or short lived peek into awakening. "Episodes" can be very clarifying and exciting but they are not Awakening.

The funny thing is, I don't think I've ever experienced an episode except for one very subtle thing.  But it seems that most people do experience awakening in the form of episodes, which is why I phrased it like that.

 

But...this difficulty with work has presented as an episode, or at least I hope so!

[9th]

I think relevant to the OP is a concept I'd read about in Carlos Castaneda's writings a long time ago - it is called "Controlled Folly". I think that is very imperative to do justice to this physical husk and it's various commitments and promises through the natural course of it's duration. 

 

There is much wisdom there for those with eyes to see...

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

 

       My acts are sincere but they are only the acts of an actor because everything I do is controlled folly. Everything I do in regard to myself and my fellow men is folly, because nothing matters.

      Certain things in your life matter to you because they're important; your acts are certainly important to you, but for me, not a single thing is important any longer, neither my acts nor the acts of any of my fellow men. I go on living though, because I have my will. Because I have tempered my will throughout my life until it's neat and wholesome and now it doesn't matter to me that nothing matters. My will controls the folly of my life.

      Once a man learns to see he finds himself alone in the world with nothing but folly. Your acts, as well as the acts of your fellow men in general, appear to be important to you because you have learned to think they are important.

      We learn to think about everything, and then we train our eyes to look as we think about the things we look at. We look at ourselves already thinking that we are important. And therefore we've got to feel important! But then when a man learns to see, he realizes that he can no longer think about the things he looks at, and if he cannot think about what he looks at, everything becomes unimportant. Everything is equal and therefore unimportant. 

      We need to look with our eyes to laugh. When our eyes see, everything is so equal that nothing is funny. My laughter, as well as everything I do is real but it also is controlled folly because it is useless; it changes nothing and yet I still do it.

      One must always choose the path with heart in order to be at one's best, perhaps so one can always laugh.

      You don't understand me now because of your habit of thinking as you look and thinking as you think. By "thinking" I mean the constant idea that we have of everything in the world. Seeing dispels that habit and until you learn to see you will not really understand what I mean.

      A man of knowledge lives by acting, not by thinking about acting, nor by thinking about what he will think when he has finished acting. A man of knowledge chooses a path with heart and follows it; and then he looks and rejoices and laughs; and then he sees and knows. He knows that his life will be over altogether too soon; he knows that he, as well as everybody else, is not going anywhere; he knows, because he sees, that nothing is more important than anything else. In other words, a man of knowledge has no honor, no dignity, no family, no name, no country, but only life to be lived, and under these circumstances his only tie to his fellow men is his controlled folly. Thus a man of knowledge endeavors, and sweats, and puffs, and if one looks at him he is just like any ordinary man, except that the folly of his life is under control. Nothing being more important than anything else, a man of knowledge chooses any act, and acts it out as if it matters to him. His controlled folly makes him say that what he does matters and makes him act as if it did, and yet he knows that it doesn't; so when he fulfills his acts he retreats in peace, and whether his acts were good or bad, or worked or didn't, is in no way part of his concern.

      You think about your acts, therefore you have to believe your acts are as important as you think they are, when in reality nothing of what one does is important. Nothing! But then if nothing really matters, as you ask me, how can I go on living? It would be simple to die; that's what you say and believe, because you're thinking about life, just as you're thinking now what seeing would be like. You want me to describe it to you so you can begin to think about it, the way you do with everything else. In the case of seeing, however, thinking is not the issue at all, so I cannot tell you what it is like to see. Now you want me to describe the reasons for my controlled folly and I can only tell you that controlled folly is very much like seeing; it is something you cannot think about.