Are "hard" martial arts an obstruction for those on the path of Neidan?

[voidisyinyang]

People who are obscure now but their online info confirms they were very very serious kungfu practitioners and yet at the time they could not even touch the qigong master. This was in 1968. He said he just always saw them moving in slow motion. He related how this amazing Mongolian fighter who was also a football coach saw the qigong master sparring in kung fu against the kungfu teacher. The Mongolian fighter - that was his style - he used his qi energy in his fingers to literally slice people open - yet when he saw the qigong master sparring the Mongolian fighter was in disbelief. "You've only been training a few months?" he asked the qigong master who was only 18 years old. The Mongolian fighter added, "And the person you're fighting has been training for 20 years! How can you do this?" Stunned and shocked was the Mongolian fighter. The qigong master responded, "I guess it's luck" because he didn't want to give away his secret. Only when the Chinese kungfu master visited the sparring match was he able to see the qigong master's secret - stating his spiritual powers were such that he needs to stop hanging out with these fighters - he said sure you are always winning but in the end you are just doing more damage to yourself.

 

http://innersoundqigong.blogspot.com/2014/08/youve-only-been-training-few-months.html

[Spotless]

Your "I don't trust".... attitude is understandable.

 

there's a lot of old skool posters on thetaobums who insist that the qi stuff is fake until they see replicable standardized Western science proof - tested repeatedly under controlled conditions, blah blah blah.

 

Then there's some more of us more open-minded people who say - o.k. you got some people making claims, let's go out and see for ourselves if this stuff is real!

 

Guess what we discover? Well - I guess you're gonna have to do that yourself aren't you! haha.

 

But first of all consider this.

 

 

 

1) This stuff is very rare but it is indeed real.

 

Now then if you can accept that possibility let's not jump into some concrete information.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ubr1Z372Y

 

Look at this 90 year old Shaolin qigong master (insert fancy Chinese term here, in your case it appears to be Neidan).

 

His name is Haidan. He was the teacher of Yan Xin.

 

So that video is him doing a one-finger hand stand.

 

Have you seen any real kungfu masters do one-finger hand stands?

 

Maybe there is one out there.

 

But that is just the beginning.

 

that video - and sure some think it's fake - but again consider the above - have you gone out to experience these people for yourself?

 

I have! So I know it's real.

 

O.K. so that video is a Shaolin training video.

 

What does it also show? you can watch the whole video - the Haidan section is at the end.

 

He throws people around - like they fly off - and with his one finger he also busts open thick cow leather hide punching bags - so the sand flies out.

 

Have you seen any "hard" kungfu masters do that?

 

O.K. maybe you have. I don't know.

 

I can give more examples.

 

The question is, are you willing to consider investigating this stuff on your own.

 

I'm not saying that this stuff can even be found - by you personally.

 

It's very difficult to find people who have this skill.

 

Even if they do they may not demonstrate it.

 

For example the qigong master I know - I was told by another qigong master - that the original qigong master did indeed blast apart marble block - just using his qi energy. But he only did it once because it was too violent.

 

O.K. so the very first qigong master I experienced (Oh I'm sorry - maybe only the term "Neidan" is real to you). haha. - the first one was Effie P. Chow.

 

She - and again I experienced her energy directly so I know she's real and at the end of the night - a big fat white lady wandered in - a security guard, totally befuddled, "Just wondering what's going on in here because the fuse got blown in the room behind you."

 

HILARIOUS. Everyone was pretty much gone - this was at a small local private university.

 

It wasn't part of a show. o.k. I was so skeptical before I went to that event I called to ask for a reduced admission price. I got half off - I paid $10. I could feel strong qi pushing my hands apart after Effie Chow filled the room with qi.

 

Now Effie shared how if some muscle man is after her or something - she can take the person's strength and add it to her own!

 

Now maybe you don't believe her. There happens to be demonstrations of her doing this - on youtube.

 

So maybe that doesn't impress you .  Maybe you want to see her in a ring - fighting some mixed martial artist or something. Like that fake Japanese dude who got his ass kicked. haha.

 

Yes there are fake dudes out there (and nothing against the Japanese. . I won't go there). haha.

 

O.K. so let's consider Yan Xin, the student of Haidan.

 

Apparently the top kungfu master of Japan challenged Yan Xin to a fight. The Japanese dude could not even touch Yan Xin - his energy just made the dude fly away.

 

Now we can't believe this stuff right?

 

For example there is the Tai Chi master on the Bill Moyer's video.

 

I looked into him after people wondering if he was real.

 

His book is sold - on Amazon - I google reviewed it, etc.

 

So it turns out that Jet Li - admittedly a real trained kungfu master right? Jet Li went to study with that Tai Chi master.

 

What did the Tai Chi master say? You have to show up every morning at 5 am for three years before I even demonstrate my power on you.

 

Now Jet Li couldn't make that kind of commitment.

 

But that's what we're talking about here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu99GRUUN6Y I'm talking about this dude.

 

So that Tai Chi master says he doesn't show his power on anyone else unless they first show up for 3 years every day. Why? because his energy is too dangerous otherwise and he doesn't want to hurt the person.

 

Sounds like bogus right? Like more likely he needs to brainwash the poor dude so their will power caves in and they submit to whatever the master wants them to do - but it won't work on some just stranger martial artist.

 

Right? I mean consider that fake Chicago black belt teacher who claims he can do his death touch or whatever - Fa Jing I think the Tai Chi people call it.

 

I know we've had lots of threads on that topic here on thetaobums.

 

Does anyone really think some Western white teacher can really develop this skill? Maybe he's got it on some level but not the real thing.

 

O.K. for example the qigong master I was talking about - he shared with me - the original qigong master shared how they brought this Chinese Tai Chi master to the U.S. - and that dude was very real. The qigong master said the Tai Chi master could just throw the qigong master around and the TAi Chi master was very powerful!

 

So the thing to realize is that a qigong master focuses on shen energy for spirit travel - doing yin shen healing whereas as tai Chi master focuses on qi energy for force.

 

The qi as force guides the spirit - but for a qigong master it is the shen information spirit that does the healing. I actually saw the qigong master sending out yin shen after  yin shen - out of his head.

 

So he is probably not using as much qi energy but just enough qi to guide the yin shen spirit information to then heal a person.

 

So if a person's qi intentions are fighting the shen energy - it is possible for a person's qi to resist the healing or resist whatever else the shen energy wants to do.

 

On the other hand if the qigong master uses a lot of qi with the shen - then it can be dangerous or too powerful.

 

So it's a matter of balance. For example in that John Chang famous video - it says he just creates a yin energy field to communicate with the spirit embedded in the magical dagger and then the dagger moves because the spirit is activated.

 

But when he does his healing he is using more qi to zap people.

 

Whereas the qigong master doesn't zap people but rather does a deep shen soul healing.

 

In other words it's a higher frequency energy but has less amplitude.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXhAMv7PDOA

 

So there's Effie Chow demonstrating "empty force" power.

 

Now I was told by the qigong master that the real tai chi masters who have this ability - they actually keep it secret - why? Because they want to store up their energy. They don't want to be unnecessarily challenged since it's a waste of their energy.

 

It takes a lot of training to build up that energy.

 

Haidan, the Shaolin monk, was known as the sleepless monk - he just meditated in full lotus all night long to build up his energy.

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/101462079/Yan-Xin-Secrets-Benefits-of-Internal-Qigong-Cultivation#scribd

 

So this book by Yan Xin details how his energy has interacted with hard martial arts.

 

But there are most demonstrations on youtube.

 

http://innersoundqigong.blogspot.com/2013/11/blog-post.html

 

I actually compiled a list of videos on my blog.

 

I was looking for one. It should be on my blog but maybe it got taken down from youtube....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_RsAFL2fQI

 

Here it is - from my blog - Iron Palm of Shaolin - Master Yao.

 

more vids on my blog.

 

So I'm not saying that Neidan (insert fancy Chinese term here) is your answer for increasing your martial arts training.

 

Subtle energy has to be stored up into qi - or Jing as it's called inTai Chi - and storing up and controlling this energy is very difficult - that's why the advanced training is done in secret, in monasteries, in retreat, etc.

 

But if you want to trust it or not - depends on how willing you are to go out to discover it yourself.

>>>>

 

Master Yao - the one in the video is my teacher.

[windwalker]

But if you want to trust it or not - depends on how willing you are to go out to discover it yourself.

 

agree most will not 

 

this is my teacher and fellow class mates, at this time he is 94 still teaching in beijing.

 

 

recently I visited this teacher in Taiwan.  Teacher Lin.

 

 

what is interesting is that they both say the same things and are able to cause the same reactions

There are different practices which will tend to develop different things.

 

All CMA arts use "qi"

the way, how its used is different the developmental practices are different. One does not lead into the other as is commonly thought.  One is not better then the  other they are just different expressions of the same ideas concepts in use.  

Edited June 16, 2015 by morninglight

[voidisyinyang]

awesome vids Morninglight. So you are a Westerner in Beijing studying Tai Chi with real masters! Very cool. But the photo for your avatar is a bit ironic. I read of a Tai Chi master - in Master Ni, Huai-ching's book - he said the Tai Chi master in Taiwan won a contest and for the award ceremony was offered an ice-cold coca cola which he downed and died from the ice cold scorching his lower tan tien! Not to mention that coca cola corn syrup is the number one cause of obesity and the diabetics epidemic - which is now a global epidemic including China. there's a new doc you can watch on that called "Globesity."

 

But I don't want to change the thread - I saw you have a website where you teach Tai Chi based on Master Zhang Yonglaing's style and give his bio there. Very cool.

 

Thanks for sharing the other teacher also - the Dragon Tai Chi which also has a website for that style.

[windwalker]

haha, the avitar pic was while I was in China and just bought some food from a street vendor.

It can be very lonely at times,  Agree, coca cola not a good thing for ones health...

 

 

 

I had hesitated in sharing the clip even though I did not post it to utube.

he preferred to remain quiet. 

 

this clip is in Singapore I believe 

 

a little more  understandable demonstrations

 

 

the basic question, about 

 

So my questions are: 

 

1) Can neidan practitioners engage in martial arts such as boxing & judo and not hamper their spiritual progress?

 

2) Why does anyone do tai chi in the first place? It seems to me like it will get their practitioners killed. I don't mean to sound snide or obnoxious but does tai chi actually WORK? 

 

I'm obviously confused at this point in my life and could use some help in gathering my thoughts. 

 is confused, all things can be a spiritual practice 

there are practices that will lead to the development of certain skill sets, and others that wont.  One has to decide on which path is the best path for them.

 

Its mistake to think that one is easier then the the other.

Edited June 17, 2015 by morninglight

[Daeluin]

Well said.

 

If people are open, without judgment, then they naturally flow with resonance, guided towards that which seems interesting, and away from that which doesn't fit.

 

So when we need things to be understood as right and wrong, choices become confusing. Proof of what is right or wrong requires all our different minds to accept a particular standardized system for understanding. But then people only attach to the system to determine what is right or wrong. The western system of understanding reality finds the concept of "qi" very foreign. So it is easiest to use the system to declare qi "wrong," and less easy to prove something using examples.

 

Qi is kinda like advanced technology. You wouldn't expect the non-initiated and non-educated people to understand how it works. But it works on a plane of existence their eyes can see, their ears can hear, etc, so people accept their lack of understanding. Qi requires developing a "new" mode of awareness, a "6th sense," to work with. So it is not surprising those wanting proof only look at what is presentable to their existing senses rather than trying to cultivate a new sensitivity.

 

So on the whole, evolution is leading our species toward greater spiritual awareness. The main limitation, or 'bridge' needing to be crossed is the development of new awareness. And this is hindered by fixed perspectives trained in since childhood, and the availability of good teachers. In time, teachers will become more plentiful, children will have more opportunities for training, and gradually the standards by which we understand our world will adapt to fit in better with reality.

 

So, all up to us....

[windwalker]

2) Why does anyone do tai chi in the first place? It seems to me like it will get their practitioners killed. I don't mean to sound snide or obnoxious but does tai chi actually WORK? 

People find what they seek according to the level sought. 

The first requirement is to be clear about what they seek.

 

With out this, an old man in the park is just an old man in a park,

there are many...but not all are taiji masters. 

[windwalker]

updated to a working link

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/192143596/WangYongquanWritingsOnYangStyleTaijiquanTranslated-20130812

 

 

[windwalker]

edited 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by windwalker

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Most of the work is a combination of forgiveness and learning.

 

You can choose any path..  but you probably have certain wants and needs that are a bit different than someone elses.. this is the same as likes dislikes..

 

You gotta feel you like something for a reason.. or are being drawn to a subject of study/practice for a reason..

 

It goes like this: everyone has different skills and attribute.. if everybody was the exact same we would  all be hella bored!

[silent thunder]

I think the hard arts will lead to internal shifts.  What is the old saying?... "we start kung fu to learn how to defeat others, yet eventually we realize the real victory is over our self."

[Taomeow]

Can someone tell me which (if any) hard arts might engage, develop, strengthen, or otherwise positively affect the internal muscles shown on the right side of this picture (as opposed to the external ones shown on the left)?  What techniques, if any, would be used?  Please be specific if possible.   

 

 

[Purple Gold Qilin]

By internal style I think you mean destruction of the internal organs and by external style you mean destruction of the bones....

[Taomeow]

Nah, not feeding.  Seek your nourishment elsewhere.  

[Purple Gold Qilin]

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Can someone tell me which (if any) hard arts might engage, develop, strengthen, or otherwise positively affect the internal muscles shown on the right side of this picture (as opposed to the external ones shown on the left)?  What techniques, if any, would be used?  Please be specific if possible.   

 

 

Tiger style for bones Dragon for the whole body...

[Boundlesscostfairy]

Wingchun and any boxing, and grappling styles..

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

Wingchun and any boxing, and grappling styles..

 

4 hours ago, Taomeow said:

  What techniques, if any, would be used?  Please be specific if possible.   

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Taomeow

[Sloppy Zhang]

You know it's interesting Taomeow, about a year ago I stumbled across the Youtube channel of a guy named Jeff Cavaliere, he runs a site and youtube channel called Athlean X: https://www.youtube.com/user/JDCav24

 

He's a physical therapist and strength coach for a professional baseball team, so he works with a lot of high level athletes at a very high level.

 

And what I found so interesting is so many of the principles and exercises that he put into his videos were just like the principles taught in Tai Chi and Qigong movements. He frequently talks about how many of the mainstream sports, exercises, and strength training taught actually build HUGE muscle imbalances, and not just with opposing large muscle groups, but on the underlying small muscle groups and other fascia.

 

Might be worth a look.

 

[Edit]

 

And since specificity was a requirement, here is a video where he points out specifically, amongst others, the Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus, and Teres Minor (at 3:30)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBR4N95asKo

Edited February 5, 2018 by Sloppy Zhang

[Taomeow]

5 hours ago, Sloppy Zhang said:

You know it's interesting Taomeow, about a year ago I stumbled across the Youtube channel of a guy named Jeff Cavaliere, he runs a site and youtube channel called Athlean X: https://www.youtube.com/user/JDCav24

 

He's a physical therapist and strength coach for a professional baseball team, so he works with a lot of high level athletes at a very high level.

 

And what I found so interesting is so many of the principles and exercises that he put into his videos were just like the principles taught in Tai Chi and Qigong movements. He frequently talks about how many of the mainstream sports, exercises, and strength training taught actually build HUGE muscle imbalances, and not just with opposing large muscle groups, but on the underlying small muscle groups and other fascia.

 

Might be worth a look.

 

[Edit]

 

And since specificity was a requirement, here is a video where he points out specifically, amongst others, the Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus, and Teres Minor (at 3:30)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBR4N95asKo

 

Thank you, SZ!  I'll definitely check it out!  

 

What I'm actually trying to figure out is exactly this --

1.whether arts that do not engage deep muscles  and "hard/external" arts are basically the same thing, at least on the level of physical structure (of course a lot more than that goes into internal arts, but internal structure must come first -- no structure, no function), 

2. and if (1) is not true, then which arts do engage them, and how exactly, and

3. if (2) is true, i.e. hard arts do exist that engage these deep structures, how exactly do they go about counteracting these "huge imbalances." 

 

I've encountered only three people who managed to switch from external/hard arts to taiji and actually develop great core in a bunch of years, but they are, in my experience, the exception.  (Coincidentally, all three are exceptionally smart, and two of them have hardcore scientific background, in biology.)  But of course my exposure is limited...  so I'm trying to expand my understanding, and correct it in case it's wrong.  My current understanding is that it's a choice -- you can't have it both ways, you can't be "sung" and "hard" simultaneously...  "sung" must extend to, and ultimately rely on, responsive inner structures, and you have to train toward this responsiveness in a way that overtraining the superficial muscles makes impossible. 

[Rara]

On 05/02/2018 at 7:57 AM, Taomeow said:

 

I've encountered only three people who managed to switch from external/hard arts to taiji and actually develop great core in a bunch of years, but they are, in my experience, the exception.  (Coincidentally, all three are exceptionally smart, and two of them have hardcore scientific background, in biology.)  But of course my exposure is limited...  so I'm trying to expand my understanding, and correct it in case it's wrong.  My current understanding is that it's a choice -- you can't have it both ways, you can't be "sung" and "hard" simultaneously...  "sung" must extend to, and ultimately rely on, responsive inner structures, and you have to train toward this responsiveness in a way that overtraining the superficial muscles makes impossible. 

 

I hope I can be no.4

 

I'll agree on muscular imbalances. I went for a sports massage the other week and I have wonderful lats but basically no rear delts and left hip area is underdeveloped.

 

Just when I thought my squat form was perfect.

 

How about from a self-defence / instant results angle? Isn't it best to at least get some of the basics of a boxing system down to enhance the skill and confidence? If it really takes so long to become a tai chi master, I would think it best to have some hard training in the meantime...

[thelerner]

In some ye olde traditions it was taught to begin in hard martial arts and evolve softer as time went on.  That always sounded like a wise path to me.  Otherwise done too long and repetitively your hard martial art can break down your body.   It wasn't from Shotokan, but there were some nice dynamic tension katas in some other karate style that was good for overall muscle work outs.

 

I'd add, I meditate better after a hard workout, when my bodies tired. 

 

Course for overall fitness I've heard people, well Doc Glenn Morris in particular (&most yogi's) rave about the simple Sun Salutation sequence in yoga. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by thelerner

[Rara]

6 minutes ago, thelerner said:

In some ye olde traditions it was taught to begin in hard martial arts and evolve softer as time went on.  That always sounded like a wise path to me.  Otherwise done too long and repetitively your hard martial art can break down your body.   It wasn't from Shotokan, but there were some nice dynamic tension katas in some other karate style that was good for overall muscle work outs.

 

Course for overall fitness I've heard people, well Doc Glenn Morris in particular (&most yogi's) rave about the simple Sun Salutation sequence in yoga. 

 

This is what I say to the tai chi guys - I'm the youngest guy in the room so I always mention how my goal by starting now is to feel ok when I'm their age hehe.

 

The transition is tough. I still enjoy sparring hard style with my friends once or twice a week and with that, comes 2x a week of body/strength conditioning. I practice my tai chi almost every day but some days, I'm just too tired. After all, I have to get up and work most days too.

[Taomeow]

54 minutes ago, Rara said:

 

I hope I can be no.4

 

I'll agree on muscular imbalances. I went for a sports massage the other week and I have wonderful lats but basically no rear delts and left hip area is underdeveloped.

 

Just when I thought my squat form was perfect.

 

How about from a self-defence / instant results angle? Isn't it best to at least get some of the basics of a boxing system down to enhance the skill and confidence? If it really takes so long to become a tai chi master, I would think it best to have some hard training in the meantime...

 

Instant results -- go hard, best results -- go internal, in my experience.  With TKD, I learned how to fight/self-defend in 9 months.  With taiji, it's a work in progress after 13 years -- but the results, albeit far from "instant," suit me.  Currently, I'm yet to meet a hard practitioner (of any level) who wouldn't seem too slow, too obvious, too vulnerable.  Their "instant results" are snail-paced from martial taiji perspective.  You can literally do anything in the space of time their brain conducts commands to their muscles against all that tense resistance.   You read them like an open book -- whereas they can do nothing because they can't read you. 

 

There's an interesting rule at work -- anyone tenser than you can't feel you.  This is worth repeating.  Anyone tenser than you can't feel you.  And you can feel everything they are doing before they know they are going to do it.  That's a tremendous advantage.  Of course a mountain of trained muscles is always to be reckoned with, but in taiji, you learn how to use their muscles as your tools.  You don't have to drag your heavy toolbox with you at all times.  You pick up a mallet when the opponent hands it to you.  Or a lever, a screwdriver, a sack of potatoes -- whatever they're offering, you've learned how to handle.  They've been training your tool box, is how I see it these days.      

 

It all depends on your priorities.  If you want to look ripped and kick ass, but either don't know the price to pay later in life or don't care and live for "right meow," vs. if you want to stay healthy, keep getting (hopefully) healthier and stronger as you grow older, with your skill steadily going up no matter how long you live rather than reaching peak performance in your prime and then downhill from there...  there's a choice therein.  If you don't mind losing ground later as long as you got to a peak position at some point vs. you don't care about the peak position but care about steady progress that never stops (gods willing and practice invested), that's a choice.  And so on.  Either mode has its advantages and its attractiveness -- different for different people.  You decide.

 

 

[dwai]

50 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Instant results -- go hard, best results -- go internal, in my experience.  With TKD, I learned how to fight/self-defend in 9 months.  With taiji, it's a work in progress after 13 years -- but the results, albeit far from "instant," suit me.  Currently, I'm yet to meet a hard practitioner (of any level) who wouldn't seem too slow, too obvious, too vulnerable.  Their "instant results" are snail-paced from martial taiji perspective.  You can literally do anything in the space of time their brain conducts commands to their muscles against all that tense resistance.   You read them like an open book -- whereas they can do nothing because they can't read you. 

Taiji is a power generation system. Once we have the power, any structure can effectively be used to deliver it. So it's not a bad thing to learn hard MA imho. However, for taiji's power to work, we HAVE to drop our attachment to the Hard MA and what we think we know. Learning taiji is very hard because of that, especially if one has hard MA background. My student is a multi-black-belt external MA (Karate, Kali, etc) and also does bagua and xinyi (not entirely internal). He picks up the energetics quite well but is unwilling to let go of what he knows (he calls it 25 years of violence practice) to let the taiji power work. Its a choice. In order to use taiji in practice, we have to really know that taiji works and the way it works is totally counter to what people know as being effective. Taiji's real power is empty, mysterious and yielding. It is of course possible to (and in reality does happen) have mixture of li and jin with different ratios until we let go of li entirely.

50 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

There's an interesting rule at work -- anyone tenser than you can't feel you.  This is worth repeating.  Anyone tenser than you can't feel you.  And you can feel everything they are doing before they know they are going to do it.  That's a tremendous advantage.  Of course a mountain of trained muscles is always to be reckoned with, but in taiji, you learn how to use their muscles as your tools.  You don't have to drag your heavy toolbox with you at all times.  You pick up a mallet when the opponent hands it to you.  Or a lever, a screwdriver, a sack of potatoes -- whatever they're offering, you've learned how to handle.  They've been training your tool box, is how I see it these days.      

I think I'll borrow that. 

50 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

It all depends on your priorities.  If you want to look ripped and kick ass, but either don't know the price to pay later in life or don't care and live for "right meow," vs. if you want to stay healthy, keep getting (hopefully) healthier and stronger as you grow older, with your skill steadily going up no matter how long you live rather than reaching peak performance in your prime and then downhill from there...  there's a choice therein.  If you don't mind losing ground later as long as you got to a peak position at some point vs. you don't care about the peak position but care about steady progress that never stops (gods willing and practice invested), that's a choice.  And so on.  Either mode has its advantages and its attractiveness -- different for different people.  You decide.

 

 

I used to think that physical/strength training is pointless for taiji. And it is. But one needs to maintain physical fitness in order to operate. For that some (not obsessive or excessive) body-weight and full body strength training I'm finding is very useful, especially as we age (i'm approaching my mid-forties now). I've been ambivalent about it and stopped and started strength training (push ups, sit ups, squats, etc) many times. In the past I found it used to affect my ability to sense my qi. However, now I find that i still am able to maintain similar level of sensitivity and listening skill but also maintain a strength training practice. Body-weight, and indian mace swinging (10-20 lbs only). 

 

[Rara]

@Taomeow Good way of putting it. Of course, I've never seen any legit taiji sparring, so I only go by what you (and others who are sold by taiji) say. Let's not forget that taiji "master" who got mashed up by that mma guy.

 

I guess you still have to be good!

 

That said, I would imagine the aim is to not fight anyway, which buys a good number of years to train without destroying your own body.

 

I just find it difficult to understand how you can still read opponents easier with little contact training, and little experience with different sorts of opponents with different styles.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Rara
I repeated myself. Not good form.