Vegan

[ケンジ]

Let us see, I am a part time vegan (always vegetarian as sometimes my vegan tendencies get adulterated with dairy in the form of cheese and ice cream) fitness fanatic who is utterly passionate about Chinese herbs.

 

So glad to see this thread be created as I just joined recently. It's just I love these topics as much as I love daily horse stance and meditation.

 

Edit: Firstly I do not own a PC anymore due to personal issues, so I am editing alot due to my phone and tablet. Secondly I removed the videos because they appeal to me, perhaps not so much to everyone else. I am a high octane type of guy, fire tiger born in 1986.

 

Here is a much more widely acceptable video, btw much love everyone this thread is going to get downright magical in the future,

 

Edited June 15, 2015 by ケンジ

[ケンジ]

I know, I know. Vegan can be a scary and off putting word. Plant based is a much more approachable term for not eating any animal products for whatever reason.

 

And so I'd like to introduce Rich Roll who is passionate about plant power and is not just a vegan to save animals' lives, no this man doesn't ever use the term vegan in fact and mainly switched for health reasons, http://www.richroll.com

 

Anyone ever read The China Study? Bought it for my parents as I was trying to encourage them to go veg so they could live long and prosper energetically speaking. They didn't like it of course it was too scholarly my Mom said, but going out to eat with my Dad I have managed to encourage him to eat way more vegetables. Like I went out to breakfast with him yesterday and he made a point to get a vegetarian dish and explain to me he has been eating healthier way more veggies and colorful stuff and less meat.

[ケンジ]

You know what would be nice for this thread? In depth herb explanations and tips and sources for all the major herbs in Chinese tonic herbalism.

 

Dragon Herbs has amazing descriptions so I may copy and paste and their quality is unparalleled however some formulas just are not that strong or effective, others on the other hand do wonders, however I prefer ordering their products from www.iherb.com as they offer free shipping. I will begin posting single herbs along with a description of each and various sources, as Dragon Herbs is not good for unprepared and bulk herbs.

Edited June 15, 2015 by ケンジ

[ケンジ]

Shall we start with the Quintessence of tonic herbalism?  What is the quintessential tonic herb you ask, if you don't already know?  Why it is my 2nd favorite berry in the whole world, well maybe 3rd as it is a toss up between sea buckthorn berry (used sea buckthorn oil topically after an inguinal hernia surgery and I swear there is barely a scar, anyways it is schisanda, my favorite berry ever is of course goji.  Let us see what the tonic herb Master Ron Teeguarden has to say about this wonderfruit (I get my schisandra in bulk from www.mountainroseherbs.com & it's organic!):

 

The Quintessence of Tonic Herbs

 

Schizandra fruit, from the plant Schisandra chinensis, is “the herb that does it all.” It develops and protects the primary energies of life. Schizandra, known as the "quintessence of Chinese tonic herbs,” supports vitality and beauty when used regularly for some time. It is said to promote beautiful skin. Schizandra is said to help purify the blood, support the mind, help maintain a strong memory, and help maintain sexual energy and sexual functions in both men and women.

 

The Quintessential Full Spectrum Tonic Herb

 

The very name of Schizandra in Chinese, Wu Wei Zi, tells us a great deal about the qualities of this herb.  Wu Wei Zi means “Five Flavors Fruit.”  Due to the fact that Schizandra possesses all five of the classical “tastes” (sour, bitter, sweet, spicy and salty) and thus possesses the essence of all five of the elemental energies (wood, fire, earth, metal and water), Schizandra is respected as a health-providing tonic in the same class with Ginseng, Reishi and Goji. 

 

Schizandra has been used since the dawn of Chinese civilization as a tonic herb. From the beginning it has been revered, and remains one of the elite herbs of the Chinese system of herbalism. It was first written about in Shen Nong’s Pharmacopoeia (written between 1st and 2nd century A.D.) where it was listed as a Superior herb. 

 

The Taoists especially have revered Schizandra. Schizandra was Ron Teeguarden’s teacher’s, Taoist Grandmaster Sung Jin Park’s, favorite herb. This is because Schizandra tonifies all 3 treasures**, enters all 12 meridians and nurtures all 5 elements. Master Park considered it to be the quintessential herbal substance. 

 

Though Schizandra is believed to benefit all the functions of the body, it has traditionally been considered to have the most influence on the Kidney, Lung, Brain and Liver functions.

 

Schizandra chinensis (Wu Wei Zi)

 

1.         Tonifies all 3 treasures.

2.         Enters all 12 meridians

3.         Nurtures all 5 elements.

 

The 3 Treasures are the 3 fundamental energies that make up life, the 13 meridians are the energy channels that flow throughout the body, the 5 elements are the five energy states of nature (Water, Wood, Fire, Earth, and Metal). In short, Schizandra is a rare herb that can actually benefit all the bodily functions and organs of the body, according to the traditional Chinese and Taoist health system.

 

Schizandra supports the skin and its functions. Schizandra is widely used to beautify the skin and to protect the skin from the damaging effects wind. Due to the astringent quality of Schizandra, the skin tends to hold its moisture and becomes full and beautiful. It has always been very popular with the wealthy men and women of China, especially the women of the imperial court, because of its youth preserving and rejuvenating effects. It is said that those who use Schizandra consistently will remain youthful in both appearance and physiology. Their skin virtually glows and becomes clear and fine after several months. 

 

This herb is considered to be one of the premium mind tonics of herbalism. It is used to support concentration, memory and alertness. It has been demonstrated that human intellectual activity can be supported and work efficiency increased by consuming Schizandra. Various tests have shown that moderate doses of Schizandra can support various activities requiring concentration, fine coordination, sensitivity and endurance. The tests in humans confirming Schizandra’s efficacy in these areas range from threading needles to running marathons.

 

Yet, unlike caffeine-like stimulants, Schizandra does not produce nervousness. Paradoxically, Schizandra is also mildly sedative (“Shen stabilizing”). Schizandra does not make people sleepy. In fact, Schizandra is mildly “calming” while producing wakefulness and focus.

 

Many studies now indicate that Schizandra actually has a balancing, or regulating, action on the central nervous system.  It can result in accurate and optimal balancing between the excitatory and inhibitory control functions of the cerebral cortex. It is considered to be a “bidirectional” herb.

 

Schizandra has been shown to strengthen and protect the liver. Schizandra is one of the primary liver cleansing agents used in tonic programs. Schizandra does not have the side effects that are associated with many of the “inferior” liver cleansing herbs. Schizandra is widely believed to protect the liver from damage due to the kinds of toxins humans consume or absorb on a daily basis, the byproducts of living. Schizandra appears to be very effective in boosting both detoxification and clearance of activated toxins (including xenobiotics).

 

Schizandra is said to increase the “Water Qi in the Kidney.” In particular, it is said to support the “water of the genital organs,” referring to the sexual fluids. Schizandra is said to support the production of semen. It is famous for its ability to relieve sexual fatigue and for increasing the sexual staying-power in men. It is thus an ingredient in the vast majority of men’s sexual tonics in Asian herbalism. 

 

Women benefit from the same capacity to increase Water Qi of the Kidney. Schizandra is said to increase circulation and sensitivity in the female genitals. Many women claim increased genital warmth and sensation after using Schizandra for a period of time. The Chinese sexual classics claim that continuous use by a woman will increase the amount of “female elixir,” a euphemism for vaginal secretions, during intercourse.

 

Schizandra is indeed the quintessence of tonic herbs. It belongs in everyone’s home elixir bar.

 

 

Am I crazy?  I suppose I am unique, and passionate to the utmost, so yes you could call me crazy.  

 

 

And of course for the spiritually dull science buffs here is what the supplement authority has to say about schisandra: http://examine.com/supplements/Schisandra+chinensis/

Edited June 15, 2015 by ケンジ

[dust]

I'm listening to the recent Rich Roll podcast with Wude. I haven't learnt much about Rich, but listening to Wude has been fascinating and touching. So thanks for that link, I will be tuning in to more.

[flowconduit]

What one is better chinese or american schizandra from the mountainroseherbs?

[wilfred]

schizandra is awesome! been taking it for quite a while and it seems to have many benefits. for convenience the product i use is the dragon herbs goji/schizandra drops, just add some it into berry juice with a dash of ginger cordial and you have quite an elixir!

 

http://www.dragonherbs.com/prodinfo.asp?number=012

[cheya]

Dang! I wish the topic of this thread was more like "tonic herbalism", and not just "vegan"!

I almost missed it!

[liminal_luke]

schizandra is awesome! been taking it for quite a while and it seems to have many benefits. for convenience the product i use is the dragon herbs goji/schizandra drops, just add some it into berry juice with a dash of ginger cordial and you have quite an elixir!

 

http://www.dragonherbs.com/prodinfo.asp?number=012

 

 

HI Wilfred,

 

I´ve been thinking of buying that product for awhile now.  If you don´t mind, what benefits have you experienced personally?

[Spotless]

I enjoy being Vegan - great energy level - a lightness to it - all systems functioning optimally.

 

More and more easy to find Vegan restaurants and lots of no oil / low oil options as well.

 

All foods - do have very different alchemical effects.

 

Including those coming into the eyes and ears, impinging on the skin, raining up and down and sideways from everything.

 

Even the food we view coming from within - we can choose what we allow and where it places us.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Spotless

[wilfred]

HI Wilfred,

 

I´ve been thinking of buying that product for awhile now.  If you don´t mind, what benefits have you experienced personally?

 

heya, it's tough to say with so much stuff on the go, but that's one i've been taking daily for a few years so can probably attribute quite a few of the jing building benefits to. schisandra seems to come over like an energetic wave through the whole body, which is consistent with it effecting all meridians/organ groups. i feel like it's tonifies yin functions more than anything, opens up the kidney/lower back channels and increases speed and efficiency of fluid production through the whole body. citrus/ginger seems to be a perfect compliment to break through cohesion/sticky energy and enhance it's cleansing effects.

 

saliva, seminal fluids and mucus are formed-ejected much more readily when you've been on schisandra/yin tonics for an extended period. skin is also noticably improved, softer and smoother and my mindfulness/awareness kept increasing as jing energy became more refined. not necessarily a good thing, but i'm working on the other stuff now 

[liminal_luke]

Thanks Wilfred.  I´m a little leery of just jumping in with the Dragon Herbs products myself rather than getting a custom prescription (do they call it that?) from a doctor of chinese medicine.  But that Schizandra/Goji combo is one that I´ve read good things about from other people too, and have long had in the back of my mind.  Might give it a go.

[wilfred]

Thanks Wilfred.  I´m a little leery of just jumping in with the Dragon Herbs products myself rather than getting a custom prescription (do they call it that?) from a doctor of chinese medicine.  But that Schizandra/Goji combo is one that I´ve read good things about from other people too, and have long had in the back of my mind.  Might give it a go.

 

yeah it seems to be one of their top tinctures, safe for pretty much anyone and effective for sustained use. as for the dragon herbs products, not cheap but i think they're pretty much the best out there. when they say 'di tao' ingredients it's legit, the dried gojis are amazing. and the FITT extraction on the goji drops makes for a really fresh tasting, flavourful extract. 'Jing Herbs' is another one if you fancy getting bulk powders, something DH don't do and their quality is brilliant. i had a couple of bags of their Schizandra extract which was what initially got me into that herb, very powerful as a tea. they've got both the Goji & Schizandra episodes of their podcast up on this page

 

http://www.jingherbsradio.com/page/2/

[Spotless]

Goji berry has another name - the other name for it very inexpensive and it is the exact same thing.

Unfortunately I cannot remember the name but someone here probably will.

[cheya]

Wolfberry!

 

How about Bacardi Wolfberry Rum! 

Google also says Nestle is doing wolfberry research in a milk formulation.

 

Opps, apologies  to Nestle—not what I thought! This is actually pretty cool!

Immunity and macular protection in the elderly, other research indicating most effective in hot skimmed milk, mediated by enhanced zeaxanthin absorption. (Doesn't look like they tried hot whole milk, which might have made the results even more pronounced.)

http://www.research.nestle.com/newscenter/news/atraditionalchineseingredientwithimmunebenefitsfortheelderly

 

Anybody got a good source for Goji/Wolfberry/Lycium, preferably not sourced in China?

[dawei]

Wolfberry!

 

Anybody got a good source for Goji/Wolfberry/Lycium, preferably not sourced in China?

 

 

We get all of ours from china but I'd probably look at ebay or amazon as those sellers can't really sell bad stuff or else they are done with that place.

[Orion]

I've never met a long-term vegan in my practice who I'd call healthy, but I live in a northern climate. In such locales, I think veganism is good for short term use only, then after that its value depreciates as a healthy force for good.

 

It makes more sense to be vegan in hot climates where consuming cold, raw food is compatible. If you look at where vegetarianism and veganism tends to be practiced in the world as a culture, this rationale lines up.

 

The whole "detoxing" craze is mostly non-sense. The most unhealthy people I've ever met are those who are obsessed with "cleansing toxins". You have a liver and kidneys for that. Just eat clean, balanced food and you'll always be detoxing. *shrug*

 

I go vegetarian for spiritual purposes, but it's always in warmer weather and not forever. If I went vegan at all, let alone in the cold winter months, I'd start getting very sick.

 

Sorry, didn't meant to shit on your thread if that's what happened... I've just seen too much to not say anything.

[Bud Jetsun]

My wife and I choose a vegan diet for reasons of compassion, and preferring to avoid karma of corpse-eating ritual. 

 

Given the choice, I would choose to pick up a fruit and eat it rather than murder an animal and bleed it out and rip its organs out and chop up its carcass. 

 

For this reason, if I pay another to do this for me, I've merely transferred the physical duties to another to do the foul acts that I would personally rather not do, this is both in-compassionate to the animal, myself, and whomever ends up in that chain of people and events related to getting the animal carcass bits on my plate. 

 

I don't eat dairy, because to my personal ethics it is not OK to machine-rape animals, steal away the baby to be raped and milked if it's female, and if male to have it's head locked in a board clamp to stand in its own feces for a few months of fattening, never getting to even turn around until it's time for that infant to be killed for veal (veal comes from male calves from the dairy industry). 

 

If you like to support those activities, and in doing so manifest aspects of them into your life, feel free to do so. 

 

I prefer to fruit and green leafy veggies from my garden, and my body and mind have never been more healthy and clear minded as a result.  My body heals faster and my endurance seems limitless.

 

It's also nice to spend so little time associated with meals.  No dishes to clean and no cooking to perform, just pick off the plant and chew and swallow.  A great simplification of what can become a major life distraction. 

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

[dust]

I really appreciate both of the above posts

 

 

Orion: yes, I too believe (it seems like clear common sense) that a "local diet" -- something based on local climate & season -- is more fitting than eating things transported from all over the world. Obviously most animals eat local stuff, and it's the way humans ate for thousands of years until the major trade routes were established. Not to mention the 'carbon footprint' of all the transport of produce that goes on these days...

 

It would seem that those living in cold climes survive very well on meat and dairy (people in Iceland have excellent life expectancy), though I would suggest that it is fats and proteins that are beneficial here, as opposed to animal products themselves...? i.e. I might suggest that it's just as healthy to have a diet rich in nuts, seeds, and beans (and fruit & veg).

 

 

Bud: I agree with your choice (picking fruit vs ripping an animals insides out & chopping it up).

 

Just recently a friend invited me to a barbecue. He'd bought a large amount of meat, and claimed (half-seriously) that having so much meat to cook was "manly". I see nothing at all "manly" about paying a number of other people to raise, kill, butcher, package, and place the pieces of a cow on a shelf so that I can push a cart around a supermarket in a suit and tie exclaiming how manly I am.

 

That said, I do eat meat and drink milk, on occasion . I do believe in a climate-specific diet (to a certain extent), and do not believe that it's completely healthy to live on (largely tropical or out-of-season) fruits and vegetables all year round, beyond a certain latitude. Though I might change latitude at some point...

[vonkrankenhaus]

Human beings are omnivorous.

 

Right now, somewhere, living human people are eating plastic, radioactive particles, toxic metals, genetically deranged cells, microwaves, and so forth.

 

The range of possible foods of the human being is extending from the densest minerals at the center of the planet to cosmic rays, as we are living in the middle of this range.

 

Our teeth are a good indicator of what we have eaten as we have evolved, and would show what we are most used to eating from our environment.

 

The vast majority of our teeth are suited for vegetal foods - fruits, plants, seeds, etc.

 

We have some flesh-tearing incisor teeth. We have eaten animals for a long period of our evolution, mostly during ice ages.

 

The length of our digestive tract also shows what food we evolved with.

 

Meat-eating animals have short digestive tracts and powerful digestive enzymes and saliva.

 

Human being has a rather long digestive tract - much longer that that of a meat-eating dog, for example.

 

Long digestive tract is for plant-based foods. Short one is for animal meat.

 

But total plant-eaters like cows have a very long digestive tract and additional organs for dealing with plant fiber.

 

In the ice ages, it was noted that animals can eat scrubby hard vegetation and by eating these animals, the human can get these tough plants "second hand".

 

It is a survival tactic from a time when the environment was very different from that of today.

 

If we go to a european "deli", we can see ice age technology still being used - cheese wheels, smoked meats hanging up - all of this is from the recent ice ages.

 

Abstractly compensating for what is no longer there, people have suffered from maladaption to the current earth climate on heavy meat diets, and they disappear from earth.

 

There are such historical facts and ideas, and there is an order to nature, and observation and understanding of these is necessary for us to intelligently judge what food is and what it is not.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited August 13, 2015 by vonkrankenhaus

[futuredaze]

I've experimented with a lot of diets - paleo, vegetarian, high-fat, vegan, etc.

 

My main thing is I am not against death, it is a natural part of life.  Having worked on farms, animals do play an important role in farming - goats can clear fields of weeds, pigs can eat compost and make more compost, etc.  By utilizing animals, more vegetables can be yielded and the soil can be enriched.  Plus, they offer vital sources in food thru dairy and meat.  Introducing animals inevitably leads to the reality that they might reproduce, die, get sick, etc.  Population control is a sad-but-true reality with animals on a farm, but it can be done humanely, sustainably, consciously.  My friend took amazing care of the goats on the biodynamic farm I lived/worked at.

 

I am not against dying, it is a natural part of life.  I am, however, against torture and inhumane conditions.  Some might say "well why bring animals into the farm in the first place?" - that is harder to answer.  When I see animals on a farm, pigs, chickens, goats, whatever, who have abundant room, are fed to, and taken care of (my friend played flute to his goats and we would take them on walks) - I don't think they are suffering, they actually seem quite happy.  Call it speculation if you wish, but this is how I see it.  Animals bring more than just benefits for their food and the farm, they bring a certain life energy and character to a farm as well, while providing a lot of life lessons too. 

 

I hate industrial animal farming, and I try not to support it by buying things from tyson, et. al.  Will I eat a cheeseburger at a BBQ if I am hungry and there are no options, sure, but I try to avoid it.

 

Humans are flexible.  Meat eaters get a lot of vitamins and nutrients like B12, creatine, CoQ10, some others I forget, that vegetarians do not get.  In modern times, we have internet access and these supplements are available, so I think veganism/vegetarianism can be healthier than ever, now.  Even if omnivore diet is healthier than vegan+supplements overall, I think if one gets peace of mind from vegan/vegetarianism, that is more important than getting a bit extra nutrients from animal products.

 

I definitely think most people eat way too much meat, and most of it is really horrible quality.  From my experience, having meat 1-4 times a month is best, mostly white meat, fish, and venison.  Grass-fed, local, organic are best, of course.

Edited July 29, 2015 by futuredaze

[dust]

When I see animals on a farm, pigs, chickens, goats, whatever, who have abundant room, are fed to, and taken care of (my friend played flute to his goats and we would take them on walks) - I don't think they are suffering, they actually seem quite happy.  Call it speculation if you wish, but this is how I see it.  Animals bring more than just benefits for their food and the farm, they bring a certain life energy and character to a farm as well, while providing a lot of life lessons too.

 

Hehe. Just yesterday I stopped to watch a herd of cows lying in the sun in the middle of a large field, all quietly chewing on grass. No animal was more at peace than them in that moment. That they'll eventually be (relatively painlessly) killed is, as you say, no more or less than part of the life cycle.

 

 

I definitely think most people eat way too much meat, and most of it is really horrible quality.  From my experience, having meat 1-4 times a month is best, mostly white meat, fish, and venison.  Grass-fed, local, organic are best, of course.

 

Most people I know eat meat every day, probably for at least 2 of every 3 daily meals. And nobody buys quality meat when they're eating that much of it.

 

It's insane.

[thelerner]

One thing I've observed is some people can't stay long term on a vegetarian diet.  They get weak and eating some meat brings back better health.  I have a good friend who was a militant vegetarian in high school experienced this when he hit his late 40's got hit with severe allergies, skin conditions and lethargy.  He bounced back when he reintroduced meat to his diet. 

 

Hardcores will deny it until there vitality fades and they even die.  Sad because a serving of fish once or twice a week would be all it takes to renew there health.  Its by no means a blanket statement, 10's (100's?) of millions of people live happily vegetarian style, but its doesn't work for everyone.  I also believe the opposite is true, swinging more towards vegetarian would be far healthier for most of us. 

Edited July 29, 2015 by thelerner

[Spotless]

Fears regarding vegan and the idea that vegan is for warm climates has no basis in fact but it is common to hear.

 

Many from cold climates are vegan (not vegetarian) and have gone on to win Olympic gold - several that have been vegan all their lives.

 

What is true is that one must actually understand the diet in order to understand what things one must do to insure the proper balances - such as the B vitamins.

 

Of course this is also extremely true for anyone on any diet here in the west - most western diets are actually suicide in slo-mo.

 

I have been vegan now for several years and will be vegan for the rest of my life. The energy throughout my space is very strong and very fine.

 

This should not be a discussion based on poor examples of the diet - if you would like poor examples of the "western diet" just look at 98% of them on the street.

 

If you would like great examples of Vegans you can just look at many of the beautiful girls coming out of a Yoga class.

 

In either case the observations are simply off the cuff and skewed.

 

It is natural to dis what you do not know and that which is un-inviting to you - but it is not necessary - often it's just the monkey mind spurting crap out as though it is something with pith.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Spotless

[vonkrankenhaus]

There is no tradition of pure veganism in northern areas such as above 40 degrees latitude.

 

This simply means that living with the natural environment, groups or masses of people were not able to take this up at that time.

 

Modern food processing and shipping is available now, but not that long ago in winter there was no banana at the supermarket.

 

There were shoots under the snow, pickled and salted storage, and animals, birds, seals, fish.

 

The lush growth of summer and autumn were eaten by animals and, essentially, "stored" as them in the environment.

 

I have lived in a forest in the North, a few of them, and also lived outdoors on the sea coast, and in winter, when you look around you, there is very little of what a modern "vegan" is eating in their condo this afternoon.

 

I find that many of the statements people make about what humans should eat are abstract, and not really based on any kind of accurate assessment or experience of the real environment and our context within it.

 

And most of what modern vegans are eating is still coming out of the modern food industry - foods shipped from other climates, artificially coddled agriculture - these foods are commercial products and not part of a normal human experience of any real environment on Earth.

 

I do appreciate that people have started to wake up about this a little in the past 30 years, and that "better" food is becoming more available.

 

But all of that is actually still very much an abstraction from normal living in real environment - but let's hope it is an abstraction seeking to eventually regain humble unity with Nature.

 

A book I can recommend along these lines is "The Road Back to Nature" by Masanobu Fukuoka.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus