Brian Posted June 18, 2015 So the sage has a purpose but you don't? How is it decided who has purpose and who doesn't? What is "supposed to be" and what is purely accidental? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 18, 2015 To reiterate, the idea of "meaninglessness" or "no purpose to anything" is a defense mechanism against having to take responsibility for your life. It is a type of "ignorance" in the sense of ignoring the actual truth in favor of blind self-absorption. As humans living on earth, we have a certain perspective... and remember... there is no dark side of the moon... matter of fact, its all dark... Your reiterations are meaningless because I take full responsibility for all my thoughts, words, and deeds. You know nothing about my life to be capable of making such a statement. Again, trying to discredit my thoughts just because they differ from yours. And I assure you, I am not ignorant so you can stop trying to imply that I am such. Ignoring the "actual truth"? Do you have an "actual truth"? I haven't heard one yet from you. Just cheap shots trying to discredit my views. Yes, we humans have our own perspectives about life. And they all vary to some degree. Maybe "your" moon is a black hole? Mine shines (reflects the sun's light) at night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 18, 2015 So the sage has a purpose but you don't? The sage created his/her own purpose. There was no purpose prior to that. It's all ego based. How is it decided who has purpose and who doesn't? No one has an inherent purpose. Bill Gates' initial purpose was to show IBM that he didn't need them to screw over him. Some people think their purpose is to make babies. So they make many and over-populate the planet. Only in one's own mind is there ever a purpose even though one's self-defined purpose may help others in many different ways. What is "supposed to be" and what is purely accidental? "Supposed to be" is my own subjective valuation. I believe that a child's life should be one of joy and happiness. It is my personal opinion. They should not be sold as slaves or caused to starve to death. Except for my personal opinions everything else is purely accidental. Well, other people have opinions too but their opinions belong to them. Actually, there are no accidentals. Everything is a result of cause and effect. What was "first cause"? I have no idea. Not even an opinion. I have no idea why Singularity went Bang! I have no idea why or how Singularity came into existence in the first place. But I know that when I am hungry I eat and when I am tired I rest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 18, 2015 Hi 9th, Care to tell me about the picture? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted June 18, 2015 So, agnostic predestination? Curious. Rather 18th century, in a way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted June 18, 2015 I guess it depends on how we originated. If we are created by another, that doesn't even necessarily imply that our creators whims for us needs must apply. If purpose is self-directed (i.e. self will), then it is as we say it is. At the same time, it is a view that is placed upon us. Those who dwell in the state of emptiness must by default have no purpose, because there is no one there to have a purpose. Purpose is 'self' limited, limited to the self alone. No-self beings just are, and cannot be limited to constructs which rely on future/past definitions, as future/past lies within the realm of the causal. Acausal is before cause. Purpose = the reason for which something is done or for which something exists. There are no 'things' in the acausal, only in the causal, so acausal beings, while still 'being' are without cause/purpose/definition/meaning. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 18, 2015 MH I'd say that per the TTC, which you and many of us here often quote, purpose is inherent in all beings from the smallest to the greatest - this is alluded to in the TTC in many places... whether or not many us beings partially or fully fulfill their purpose and or "place in the sun" is another matter. Further there is the saying, "how do I know the ways of all things at the beginning ? By what is within me." from TTC 21, with "ways" being inclusive of purpose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted June 18, 2015 Of course, it could also be that the purpose of some beings is to experience purposelessness! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 18, 2015 it could be put that way although such feelings of purposelessness as you allude to would still have a purpose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 18, 2015 So, agnostic predestination? Curious. Rather 18th century, in a way. If you were speaking to me you will need to explain that one. I have no idea what you are talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 18, 2015 It's nice quoting Bruce Lee. But remember, he killed himself. That's not the Way of Tao. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 18, 2015 MH I'd say that per the TTC, which you and many of us here often quote, purpose is inherent in all beings from the smallest to the greatest - this is alluded to in the TTC in many places... whether or not many us beings partially or fully fulfill their purpose and or "place in the sun" is another matter. Further there is the saying, "how do I know the ways of all things at the beginning ? By what is within me." from TTC 21, with "ways" being inclusive of purpose. Are you sure the TTC is alluding to purpose rather than function? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 18, 2015 Of course, it could also be that the purpose of some beings is to experience purposelessness! That's cheating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silent Answers Posted June 19, 2015 After reading through, purpose seems incredibly fractal, and open to interpretation. (Like pretty much everything else) Here for a purpose? Yes, but that is not necessarily your own personal purpose. I believe there are beings beyond us, pulling the strings for their own purpose, in turn for an even greater purpose; and so on. When we stray from purpose, it may be disasterous for us, yet almost unnoticeable from the eyes of another perspective. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Did not Solomon of the Bible write about 'purpose'. Well, I have had a pretty good shot at 'trying everything under the sun ' too My palaces were smaller and my gardens vaster, I had less concubines .... but still . I had, I think, much better quality wine. I got to the point where , a hard days work that accomplished something ( that I thought was good) . a glass of wine (or equivalent), and a comfy spot to view the sun go down (and then do my sunset meditation - which is basically; thank you for another day of being alive, regardless of how it was ) was the only real 'satisfaction' or 'purpose' . I am happy at this stage ... Solomon went on, but just here will do fine for me. I want to quote someone else anyway, not Solomon " The grave's most holy peace is ever sure, We fall asleep and never wake again;Nothing is of us but the mouldering flesh,Whose elements dissolve and merge afreshIn earth, air, water, plants, and other men.We finish thus; and all our wretched raceShall finish with its cycle, and give placeTo other beings, with their own time-doomInfinite aeons ere our kind began;Infinite aeons after the last manHas joined the mammoth in earth's tomb and womb.We bow down to the universal laws,Which never had for man a special clauseOf cruelty or kindness, love or hate:If toads and vultures are obscene to sight,If tigers burn with beauty and with might,Is it by favor or by wrath of fate?All substance lives and struggles evermoreThrough countless shapes continually at war,By countless interactions interknit:If one is born a certain day on earth,All times and forces tended to that birth,Not all the world could change or hinder it.I find no hint throughout the UniverseOf good or ill, of blessing or of curse;I find alone Necessity Supreme;With infinite Mystery, abysmal, dark,Unlighted ever by the faintest sparkFor us the flitting shadows of a dream. .... Edited June 19, 2015 by Nungali 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 19, 2015 attachment to particular form that can never remain the same can tend to make one depressive, seeing the eternal spirit and truth working in and through all beings can tend to make one joyous. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 19, 2015 After reading through, purpose seems incredibly fractal, and open to interpretation. (Like pretty much everything else) Here for a purpose? Yes, but that is not necessarily your own personal purpose. I believe there are beings beyond us, pulling the strings for their own purpose, in turn for an even greater purpose; and so on. When we stray from purpose, it may be disasterous for us, yet almost unnoticeable from the eyes of another perspective. Well, at least you have, in your mind, defined a purpose for why we are here. I don't agree but that doesn't matter. Most folks, it seems, need to have, in their mind, an understanding that there is a purpose for their life. For many, without purpose, there is no reason to even live. And really, we do need a reason to live, to make the effort, to put up with the pains and hard times. But as you mentioned, purpose is a matter of interpretation. Purpose can be found nearly anywhere. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 19, 2015 hey guys up early today, or me anyway it's 4:30 am 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 19, 2015 " The grave's most holy peace is ever sure, We fall asleep and never wake again;Nothing is of us but the mouldering flesh,Whose elements dissolve and merge afreshIn earth, air, water, plants, and other men.We finish thus; and all our wretched raceShall finish with its cycle, and give placeTo other beings, with their own time-doomInfinite aeons ere our kind began;Infinite aeons after the last manHas joined the mammoth in earth's tomb and womb.We bow down to the universal laws,Which never had for man a special clauseOf cruelty or kindness, love or hate:If toads and vultures are obscene to sight,If tigers burn with beauty and with might,Is it by favor or by wrath of fate?All substance lives and struggles evermoreThrough countless shapes continually at war,By countless interactions interknit:If one is born a certain day on earth,All times and forces tended to that birth,Not all the world could change or hinder it.I find no hint throughout the UniverseOf good or ill, of blessing or of curse;I find alone Necessity Supreme;With infinite Mystery, abysmal, dark,Unlighted ever by the faintest sparkFor us the flitting shadows of a dream. I like that well enough to quote it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted June 19, 2015 it could be put that way although such feelings of purposelessness as you allude to would still have a purpose. only if one was projected onto the experiencer, but the experiencer, if they didnt hold the idea in their head, could be said to have no purpose. Purpose is a mind fabrication. End the mind fabrications, and there is no such thing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted June 19, 2015 I believe our only "purpose" is to function as useful hosts for microorganisms. Beyond that, life is what you make of it while you have the chance. And we only get one chance. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 19, 2015 I believe our only "purpose" is to function as useful hosts for microorganisms. Beyond that, life is what you make of it while you have the chance. And we only get one chance. Finally!!! A post I can totally agree with! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted June 19, 2015 Our purpose, should we choose to accept it, is......[Mission Impossible voice] 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
