All right, you don't believe in astrology...

[Taomeow]

Let's imagine something far out. You are born. Now let's see. What influences you at that moment? Who or what is in charge of you? And are the influences coming your way from whoever or whatever is in charge relevant at all for who you are going to be later?

 

Let's mentally experiment a bit. Say, you are born to a mother who doesn't want you. She throws you in the dumpster and leaves. In the morning, having learned, with all your being, with everything you are, your first lesson about what life is about, you are found, half dead, frozen, shut down. They patch you up and place you in an orphanage. You are never held, spoken to, or loved. You are fed and drugged, and you survive. Fast forward 20, 30, 60 years. Has the beginning of your life influenced you at all? What d'you reckon?

 

OK, here's another scenario. Your mom adores you from the second you're conceived, and as soon as you're born you're bathed in love and acceptance. An hour later, the bombs start falling. One of them hits your little house. Your mom is killed, you're miraculously unharmed. You are found by some soldiers and placed in a family that has twelve kids of their own and kind hearts, one more won't make a difference they say, we'll take him. They take you but no one has the time, the resources, the food, the incentives to give you more than 1/13th of anything you might need. And some of your adopted brothers and sisters really would prefer you weren't there. They let you know that. Always. Fast forward 20, 30, 60 years. Has what happened to you at birth influenced you at all?

 

Another one. You are born in a good hospital, bright lights, big city. Your mom is worried about the possibility of stretch marks on her breasts, so she decides she won't breastfeed. You get your soy formula, you develop allergies, eventually the become severe, you're going to still design your life around them 20, 30, 60 years later. Has what happened to you at birth contributed?

 

And now the universal one. You are born. Things happened before you were born. Many, many things, billions of years of all kinds of things happening. Stars were born and billions of them exploded and collapsed and sent showers of cosmic particles your way. Meteors hit and changed the climate of your planet, warm to cold to hot to freezing to mellow. Jupiter turned this way and that way, pulling on the electromagnetic field of your planet, now stronger, now weaker, making a dent in the gravitational net, now deep, now shallow. The moon caused all water on earth to swell up, then to recede, the ebb and tide of the ocean you can notice, the mirroring ebb and tide in your very own cells that are mostly water, in your own blood that is mostly water, you don't notice. But it matters! All of it matters. The precise configuration of all energies of the world, personal, impersonal, current, ancient --

all of it matters. All of it will make you into who you are going to become. You're in it, you can't NOT be shaped by it. Ah but what is this "it?" The great "all of it" that will shape you that is impossible to notice because it's too fathomless, too subtle -- or too huge and overwhelming -- to relate to your own private life?

 

"It" has been noticed, observed, studied, recorded, mastered by the sages of old, the ancient astrologers. They had the time and patience, the awareness and the senses, the rhyme and reason to notice your mom and dad and your doctor and teacher as well as your village and country, your forest and ocean, your moon and sun, your cosmos and stars, your ruling phases of qi. Hundreds of thousands of times they noticed that there's no cut-off spot where it might all get fragmented into parts "independent" from other parts, there's no separate babies not affected by what Jupiter is up to, anymore than there's separate babies not affected by what mom and dad are up to. There's no such thing as not being influenced by the cosmic happenings -- and the earlier the moment you notice as the moment of immersion in these forces, the more accurate your prediction as to what they're going to do with you, for you, or against you. Birth is just about as early as you can notice; conception was a more crucial moment, with more implications for who you were going to be, because it came earlier. It decided whether you're going to be a boy or a girl, e.g., and what all of your genetic make-up is going to be... what species you were going to be, for starters... things bigger than what's decided at birth. But the ones that are decided at birth, the ones fully dependent on the overall configuration of the universe at that particular moment, are big enough too.

 

So ancient astrologers focused on discerning, disentangling, and understanding as many of those forces as they could. The more they were able to discern and understand, the better they knew what kind of cosmic current you were born into -- or against. They created and maintained calendars that took this cosmic activity into account. Ours was copied on theirs, with the real stuff omitted -- the real stuff being its ability to mirror what's going on on the planet and above it at all times -- accurately. Ours is mere accounting; theirs was a mirror of reality. When plants bloom and when they wither and die, it knew. When animals give birth to healthy offspring and when, to untimely, sickly ones that won't make it through the winter, it knew. When to fix the boat and when to pull it out of the water before the lake freezes over, it knew. When spirits smile at men and women and when they frown, and when they pounce in rage and kill, it knew. When humans give birth to kings and healers and farmers and beauties and when, to scoundrels and thieves and murderers, it knew...

 

Now people who, without thinking twice, repeat (as taught by other repeaters) that they "don't believe in astrology" and "don't believe in birth dates" and "don't believe in all this BS" and so on --

-- what they're actually saying is, they don't believe they're real. For the only way to not be influenced by the phase of the moon, and the flares of the sun, and phases of qi of Heavenly Stems and Earthly Branches if you take a look a bit deeper and farther, is by being a figment of someone's imagination. And our "modern science" has imagined exactly such a creature for a human being, and convinced nearly everybody that that's what they are -- these imaginary creatures that don't believe they were really born, or if they do believe they were, still think that it never mattered exactly how, exactly when, and exactly what the implications might have been for later. Sigh. Verily, this is the age of the Valley Of The Dolls... kali yuga.

Edited October 20, 2007 by Taomeow

[Sunya]

i don't know if its a question of not being real or not.. to me and most its a question of free will. most people don't like the idea of their fate being controlled by God, the cosmos, or whatever.

 

although i remain open minded about the whole deal, i'm still skeptical. i got a free vedic astrology reading done and it was very accurate, but at the same time the readings are usually so broad and general that i'm sure if i put in different dates it still would've appealed to me.

 

how do you suggest I learn about this and discern truly whether its real or not? what convinced you?

Edited October 20, 2007 by mikaelz

[lockpaw]

Let's imagine something far out. You are born. Now let's see. What influences you at that moment? Who or what is in charge of you? And are the influences coming your way from whoever or whatever is in charge relevant at all for who you are going to be later?

 

 

Uhhh... Can I get the Cliff's Notes Version?

[Cameron]

I don't know about anyone else but I think Astrology is super cool and am keenly interested in Taomeow giving my sorry ass a reading!

[thelerner]

Thought about it once and didn't believe in it, old fashion mumbo jumbo superstition, kept alive by people making a dime off the gullible and/or those too who put psuedo science above real science. But reading taomeow I realize, Oh my God I'm not real. I'm a repeater, a regurgitator, blarghghhh. The ancient scientists whoever they were, whenever they were must have been right about why things happen by looking at the solar flares and stuff. Jupiter, Mars Venus they have everything to do with my life because of where they were when I was born(instead of when conceived and more vulnerable) Finally I wasn't a repeater.

 

Then I thought a third time. I've come to the conclusion, its still full of crap. Its worthwhile as a rorchach test to get people to look inward. There are some talented people who would have success in any system due to there own innate psychic abilities, but placement of planets at birth is pseudo science. The planets would actually have almost no effect at all, the moon would have high 90's, the sun the rest.

 

I don't think I'd have written such a negative post or written at all if it weren't for the 'People who don't agree w/ me are simply the repeaters'. Sigh, how pity those who don't believe what I do..

 

 

Michael

[Cameron]

I find Michaels view to be valid!

[rain]

why have to believe?

be a cat, be curious

investigate a little further

believing is knowing your limits and needs.

makes you humble.

 

be a cat when you can.

be curious.

 

 

 

curiousity killed the cat...(exactly!)

Edited October 20, 2007 by rain

[Sunya]

I find Michaels view to be valid!

 

could be right could be wrong. just remain open minded, because you never know.

they laughed at jules verne

[thelerner]

Jules Verne had a ridiculous sense of clothing. He deserved to be laughed at. I've had friends who were into astrology and I respect them and there beliefs. I think Taomeow's knowledge and practice of the esoteric is amazing. We are lucky to have her here sharing that knowledge and experience.

 

I'm just intolerant of intolerance. Or perhaps I should say intolerant of those who preach intolerance about those who won't tolerate them. Its the double reverse intolerants that really get my goat.

 

Back on subject. The proof of astrology has to be whether it works, plain and simple. Syllogisms like you're made of elements so if you don't believe in elements you're saying you don't exist, Don't wash.

 

Does it work? I think..it might for some special people, not because it works but because of they have special talents. Thats why you're likely to get 3 very different readings from different astrologers even using the same system.

 

Being on this board with all you..esoterics.. has made me stretch my mind a bit. Take the I Ching. On the face of its, its as ridiculous as astrology, since you're thinking that random throws of coins are going to give you answers to specific questions. I've paged through a couple books and Carl Jungs thinking enough to realize that there is enough there to make it a valid tool.

 

I won't be willing to give up my status as a card carrying member of the Skeptical Society though.

 

 

Michael

 

 

Michael

[Cameron]

Michael,

 

Now that my schedule has been "freed up" might join you in Sedona for some adventures.

[rain]

ridiculous adventure in sedona!

good

good!

Edited October 20, 2007 by rain

[VeeCee]

Jules Verne had a ridiculous sense of clothing. He deserved to be laughed at.

 

 

I'm just intolerant of intolerance. Or perhaps I should say intolerant of those who preach intolerance about those who won't tolerate them. Its the double reverse intolerants that really get my goat.

 

 

I've paged through a couple books and Carl Jungs thinking enough to realize that there is enough there to make it a valid tool.

 

I was very into Jung a year or two ago - which lead some very interesting reading about mythology, religion, the tarot, etc.

[agharta]

I've had my Jyotish (Hindu) chart done by several very gifted astrologers. I've also done my Chinese Four Pillars myself. My conclusion, based on looking at the combination of the two charts, my life, and the world in general--

 

1. For an individual life, the combination of the two systems is almost deadly accurate. It's quite scary, and I'm not that easy to scare, usually.

 

2. It falls apart to the degree that whatever good or bad thing that is happening to the individual is also happening to an entire group of people simultaneously. When 250,000 Chinese died in an earthquake, or a couple hundred thousand Indonesians in the 2004 tsunami, I don't think you could have found it in their charts.

 

3. Face-reading and palmistry, combined with both systems of astrology, are usually pretty good at telling you who you're dealing with.

 

4. Still, like I said, it's only accurate to the degree that it's not group karma.

 

Plenty of things can help beat bad astrological situations. Good diet, qi gong, etc.

 

Just my opinions.

[林愛偉]

i don't know if its a question of not being real or not.. to me and most its a question of free will. most people don't like the idea of their fate being controlled by God, the cosmos, or whatever.

 

although i remain open minded about the whole deal, i'm still skeptical. i got a free vedic astrology reading done and it was very accurate, but at the same time the readings are usually so broad and general that i'm sure if i put in different dates it still would've appealed to me.

 

how do you suggest I learn about this and discern truly whether its real or not? what convinced you?

 

 

Its not that one is controlled by anything. Its that we are all part of everything out there in the Universe. Since this is true, every change up there is a change down here. The stars move and so do we. The energy changes and so does ours.

 

Nothing is separate, so how is there a controller?

 

 

The idea that is is freewill is false. People think they exercise freewill because they make decisions. But they make decisions based on past experiences about them. Therefore its not freewill, it is conditioning. Like a credit card. Its a credit card if you don't use it, but a debt card the moment you do. Its freewill if you are not basing your decision on previous experiences. It is conditioning if you do.

The fact is people have become too individualized, and claim for their own; my car, my house, my wife, my husband, kids, etc. My pain, my anger, my headache...lol And they point the finger at others without responsibly looking at themselves. People are taught to keep separation as a base for their daily living. That perception supports government, and corporations. It is a false perception taught to the masses.

 

 

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[Cameron]

Any sort of long terms solution to help the people Lin or basically just focus on your own awakening?

 

Cam

[lockpaw]

[snip]

 

I'm just intolerant of intolerance. Or perhaps I should say intolerant of those who preach intolerance about those who won't tolerate them. Its the double reverse intolerants that really get my goat.

 

[snip]

 

I won't be willing to give up my status as a card carrying member of the Skeptical Society though.

Michael

 

Well, I'm intolerant of intolerance toward intolerance... Ah, heck, I give up.

 

It will be interesting to hear your take on the Lama Dorje phenomenon.

 

 

The fact is people have become too individualized, and claim for their own; my car, my house, my wife, my husband, kids, etc. My pain, my anger, my headache...lol And they point the finger at others without responsibly looking at themselves. People are taught to keep separation as a base for their daily living. That perception supports government, and corporations. It is a false perception taught to the masses.

 

Lin,

 

Good points, but can you feel my headache? Sure, we're all one, but there is a separation. I can see my thoughts, but I can't see your thoughts. I feel my headaches but I don't feel your headaches. Maybe on some philosophical level there is no separation, but how does one make that more than a nice theory?

[seadog]

Sometimes I believe in astrology,somtimes I don't.The joys of being a Gemini.

[Taomeow]

Intolerant of intolerance of intolerance? Well I'm your gal to intolerate then. I'm completely intolerant of racism, e.g., which is an intolerance toward people of other skin shades and/or cultures. I am completely intolerant of anti-semitism, an intolerance of Jews -- do you extend your intolerance of intolerance toward intolerance of anti-anti-semites? I am intolerant of a lot of intolerances ingrained in our society. Also of condescending attitudes toward "otherness" and especially those coming form socially up toward socially down, from the dominant baboon toward the disenfranchised, disempowered, marginalized, not-to-reckon-with, socially weaker party.

 

Also, of opinions not based on personal investigation. E.g., when someone has thoroughly investigated, diligently studied, practiced for an extended period of time, and rejected because found without merit, any system, be it astrology or the art of slicing soup, I respect that with all my heart. However, if one rejects it without such investigation... then I say he or she is repeating what others, usually also repeaters rather than investigators and empirical users, have said. It upset you that I said people who "don't believe in astrology" are repeaters? Well, if I made a mistake, if you studied it, practiced it, and found without merit, I would have to apologize to you personally. Most people I've met who repeat it didn't though. They are just what I said they are -- repeaters -- so no apology is due. Calling a spade a spade is only insulting to a spade that believes it's a space shuttle.

[林愛偉]

Well, I'm intolerant of intolerance toward intolerance... Ah, heck, I give up.

 

It will be interesting to hear your take on the Lama Dorje phenomenon.

Lin,

 

Good points, but can you feel my headache? Sure, we're all one, but there is a separation. I can see my thoughts, but I can't see your thoughts. I feel my headaches but I don't feel your headaches. Maybe on some philosophical level there is no separation, but how does one make that more than a nice theory?

 

 

I knew this was going to come up.. hahaha Perfect question.

 

Our bodies cannot be "one". Our mind is. Our mind doesn't get a headache, our body does. There is a sensation and because we feel it to be unpleasant, according to what we are told pain to be like, we call it unpleasant and thus..a pain in the head...lol

 

Our body is subject to what we place in our mind. You place things in the mind, and the body experiences its process. Though body is of mind, what you do with it can not be felt by others only because it is experiencing what you particularly worked with.

When I say "You", I just say so as a means to point to the conditions which make the "you".."you" and "others" perceive.

 

Mind is characterized by the myriad conditions that are attached to with it, but mind is not mind. That too is an expedient to let go of itself.. haha to get that, cultivate and contemplate on it

 

So, no, I can't feel your headache, but I can sympathize with you

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[ZenStatic]

I knew this was going to come up.. hahaha Perfect question.

 

Our bodies cannot be "one". Our mind is. Our mind doesn't get a headache, our body does. There is a sensation and because we feel it to be unpleasant, according to what we are told pain to be like, we call it unpleasant and thus..a pain in the head...lol

 

Our body is subject to what we place in our mind. You place things in the mind, and the body experiences its process. Though body is of mind, what you do with it can not be felt by others only because it is experiencing what you particularly worked with.

When I say "You", I just say so as a means to point to the conditions which make the "you".."you" and "others" perceive.

 

Mind is characterized by the myriad conditions that are attached to with it, but mind is not mind. That too is an expedient to let go of itself.. haha to get that, cultivate and contemplate on it

 

So, no, I can't feel your headache, but I can sympathize with you

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

 

So by this, do you, essentially, mean that we cause our own headaches? Because I know that in actuality, most people do, as most headaches come from stress rather than anything else.

 

 

I've had my Jyotish (Hindu) chart done by several very gifted astrologers. I've also done my Chinese Four Pillars myself. My conclusion, based on looking at the combination of the two charts, my life, and the world in general--

 

1. For an individual life, the combination of the two systems is almost deadly accurate. It's quite scary, and I'm not that easy to scare, usually.

 

2. It falls apart to the degree that whatever good or bad thing that is happening to the individual is also happening to an entire group of people simultaneously. When 250,000 Chinese died in an earthquake, or a couple hundred thousand Indonesians in the 2004 tsunami, I don't think you could have found it in their charts.

 

3. Face-reading and palmistry, combined with both systems of astrology, are usually pretty good at telling you who you're dealing with.

 

4. Still, like I said, it's only accurate to the degree that it's not group karma.

 

Plenty of things can help beat bad astrological situations. Good diet, qi gong, etc.

 

Just my opinions.

 

What exactly is the 4 pillars?

[林愛偉]

So by this, do you, essentially, mean that we cause our own headaches? Because I know that in actuality, most people do, as most headaches come from stress rather than anything else.

What exactly is the 4 pillars?

 

 

We do cause our own headaches. Some headaches come faster than others. In terms of "outer" influences, the headaches would be caused by our karma,fate based on things we have done at some point with a previous likeness(body). Starts and planets do interplay, yet to an extent. If we can be aware of how the stars and planets affect us, and we see our conditions point towards getting sick, then we can try to change it. If the cultivation of methods which lead to changing the outcomes is sincere(deeply concentrated) enough, we can alter/change our karma, fate.

 

Peace,

Lin

[Mal]

Now people who, without thinking twice, repeat (as taught by other repeaters) that they "don't believe in astrology" and "don't believe in birth dates" and "don't believe in all this BS" and so on --

-- what they're actually saying is, they don't believe they're real.

 

No FWIW I'm saying that I don't believe astrology is predictive of human behaviour.

 

Its worthwhile as a rorchach test to get people to look inward.

 

That what I like about I Ching.

 

Also, of opinions not based on personal investigation. E.g., when someone has thoroughly investigated, diligently studied, practiced for an extended period of time, and rejected because found without merit, any system, be it astrology or the art of slicing soup, I respect that with all my heart. However, if one rejects it without such investigation...

 

The nicest thing I can say is perhaps it's like magick, so many people pretending they can do it that nobody even gets to see the real stuff anymore.

 

In my personal experience it has NEVER been predictive.

[Taomeow]

i don't know if its a question of not being real or not.. to me and most its a question of free will. most people don't like the idea of their fate being controlled by God, the cosmos, or whatever.

 

although i remain open minded about the whole deal, i'm still skeptical. i got a free vedic astrology reading done and it was very accurate, but at the same time the readings are usually so broad and general that i'm sure if i put in different dates it still would've appealed to me.

 

how do you suggest I learn about this and discern truly whether its real or not? what convinced you?

 

Well... for starters, I would steer clear of pop astrology of any denomination. Most books you'll find on the subject in, e.g., Barnes & Noble, are full of BS. There's two ways to go about it: learn from a true lineage master, is one; the other one is to learn the whole (or as close to the whole as you can get) of a given ancient system of philosophy-cosmology-practice, be it Chinese or vedic or Mayan, whose part astrology always is, and it will fall into place by itself after a number of years. (Or both. ) One reason I don't want to learn Western astrology is that its cosmology-philosophy has long been disconnected from practice, and besides is a secondary derivative (with many omissions and many parts lost) of the taoist system (sic! -- Romans via Greeks via Egyptians who, via the Great Silk Road, learned it from the Chinese! -- there's not a single Greek philosopher whose name you've heard who didn't study at the university of Alexandria in Egypt, where philosophy and cosmology were often taught by taoists!) Vedic I don't use because "you can't travel the river in two boats by placing one foot in each" (a Chinese proverb). So the system I learned is Chinese astrology, and what convinced me was...

 

1. Congruency. It naturally and smoothly flows out of the whole taoist body of knowledge, and doesn't conflict with their overall cognitive system -- with their anatomy/physiology, medical science, moral values, empirical practices, the arts, and so on. In other words, a taoist can't reject taoist astrology and still consider herself a taoist anymore than a Christian can reject Jesus Christ and still consider herself a Christian. It's a package, you can take it or leave it, but you can't take some and leave some, you can't leave Jesus out of Christianity and you can't leave taoist astrology out of taoism, it will simply make no sense.

 

2. Like another poster stated, dead accuracy, to a scary extent. And not because it is based on generalities that would as easily apply to someone else -- no, the opposite: a Chinese astrological reading the real deal is specific enough for you to know it concerns only you and is not applicable to anyone else. Example: my personal 4P revealed to me which Wuxing phases are destined to be those of my other family members. I then calculated theirs -- doing a separate reading for each not predicated on mine in any way -- and it all matched. I got exactly the family my chart says I was destined to get -- not in terms of any psychological wishy-washy descriptions, but in terms of the precise phases of qi they would manifest -- Yin Fire, Yang Fire, Yin Metal, and so on. So, I'm told (by my reading) that since I'm Timely Wood, my children will be Fire. I do my children's charts, and yes, they are. I'm told my husband will be Yin Metal, which means he will always try to control me (Metal controls Wood) but won't really succeed (because it's weak metal against strong wood, in this scenario, like trying to cut down a tree not with an ax but with a pocket knife.) And so on. In other words, there's ways to check the accuracy of the reading by an independent third party -- you can do it in a double-blind controlled way if you like and it will still be kosher. Now of course when it comes to interpreting the results... the true art... this, like any true art, depends on the mastery of the artist. A recipe for fried chicken is not the fried chicken. The kind of chicken you'll get is dependent on the cook, the appetite of the moment, even your personal values (e.g. if you're a vegetarian the cook's art might be lost on you with that chicken), but if you accept that the chicken is real and the recipe is real and it is indeed possible to combine the two to get something real for dinner as a result, you understand the relationship between the method of astrology and its actual application. (A bad cook can ruin it anytime, a great cook might create a memorable masterpiece... with many possible in-betweens.)

 

3. When I had the time, I did many readings for many people. The beauty of Chinese astrology is that it is pragmatic and prescriptive -- do this, don't do that, it's not just information, it's know-how. In other words, free will is not thrown out the window, it's just applied in a balanced and productive way (gives one the courage to change things she can change and wisdom to leave things she cannot change alone, and so on). In every single case, when I said, your reading tells you do this don't do that, the response was either, "yes, I've felt this for a long time and am already doing it," or "yes, I've felt this for a long time and now I will do it," or, "yes, I've felt this for a long time but it's too late to do it now." It always made deep personal sense -- and I was never "general," i.e. I could tell one person "stop drinking" and another, "have wine with your dinner," or I could tell one person "move to Seattle" and another, "get the hell out of Seattle." And it always made dead accurate sense to the recipient of the reading.

Edited October 21, 2007 by Taomeow

[Mal]

Well... for starters, I would steer clear of pop astrology of any denomination.

 

One reason I don't want to learn Western astrology is that its cosmology-philosophy has long been disconnected from practice, and besides is a secondary derivative

 

{snip}

 

a Chinese astrological reading the real deal is specific enough for you to know it concerns only you and is not applicable to anyone else.

 

In other words, there's ways to check the accuracy of the reading by an independent third party -- you can do it in a double-blind controlled way if you like and it will still be kosher.

 

Fare enough, my experiences are based on western astrology, although Witch gets that to work too (I think)

 

"Now of course when it comes to interpreting the results... the true art... this, like any true art, depends on the mastery of the artist."

 

I know people that can predict the future, perhaps the skill works regardless of the method employed

[lockpaw]

there's not a single Greek philosopher whose name you've heard who didn't study at the university of Alexandria in Egypt, where philosophy and cosmology were often taught by taoists!)

 

Do you have a source for this?

 

1. Congruency. It naturally and smoothly flows out of the whole taoist body of knowledge, and doesn't conflict with their overall cognitive system -- with their anatomy/physiology, medical science, moral values, empirical practices, the arts, and so on. In other words, a taoist can't reject taoist astrology and still consider herself a taoist anymore than a Christian can reject Jesus Christ and still consider herself a Christian. It's a package, you can take it or leave it, but you can't take some and leave some, you can't leave Jesus out of Christianity and you can't leave taoist astrology out of taoism, it will simply make no sense.

 

This sounds absurd. This is a classic rhetorical device: you take a criteria, elevate it to the point where its required to belong to an elite class (in this case, Taoists), and condmen those who disagree with you to a non-elite status. It sounds to me that just because *you* like astrology you elevate it to a point where people who don't agree with *you* aren't real taoists but *fake* taoists.

 

3. When I had the time, I did many readings for many people. The beauty of Chinese astrology is that it is pragmatic and prescriptive -- do this, don't do that, it's not just information, it's know-how.

 

This is the ultimate test: does it work? I suppose most people have not had a Chinese astrology reading done by an expert, and thus, most of us will be unconvinced.