Cannabis effect on Cultivation; views in CTM

[futuredaze]

Lately I've been wondering about the effects of cannabis and how it is viewed in CTM.  I know that it is considered to have medical applications, both in CTM and Western medicine, but I am more curious about its effects on healthy individuals in terms of spiritual/consciousness development rather than physical/health ways.

 

In my own practice, I know that there is definietly a potential for abuse.  Many people I know who use cannabis use it multiple times per day, or when they do it, smoke a large amount.  This is definitely not good, but I am wondering what people think about moderate use.

 

For me, besides being an aid when I have insomnia or digestive troubles, I find that it can put me in a creative/inspired headspace that is very nice.  Not that I need cannabis to be creative, but sometimes I can get a lot of insight or creativity when I smoke that I wouldn't get otherwise, which is a nice side-effect.  It can help me process emotional stuff and be gain new perspectives on my issues and life in general.  I meditate, exercise, have a good diet, and do other things also for self-work, but it is nice having another tool at my disposal.  I try to look at cannabis as a tool, not something that I need all the time, but it can be helpful in particular circumstances.  When I don't have it, it's not really a big deal.

 

I'm curious what other people's opinions are, especially people who have been practicing for a while or those who have talked to advanced teachers about it.  I feel like it is useful for me, as long as I'm not getting carried away or using it in situations which it is not appropriate (i.e. at work, social situations, when I'm trying to be really productive, etc.).  However, there is a part of me that is kind of like a monk and thinks that maybe it would be better if I cut out all drugs totally, ate a very simple diet, and lived a simple lifestyle.

Edited June 22, 2015 by futuredaze

[soaring crane]

I've heard, but don't quote me on this, that it can cause dyslexia :-)

[vonkrankenhaus]

Every teacher I had has recommended against it.

 

My theory as to why this has been so is that my experience with teachers began in the early 70s when americans were first being taught gongfu and qigong, and most of the interested students were coming from being "counterculture" and "hippies".

 

I think my teachers saw these american hipsters and assumed it was their famous use of cannabis that made them so awkward, with so much difficulty to understand even very basic things. Their fog seemed explainable due to "drugs".

 

Only later did we start to realize that it was basically everything else they did.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Daeluin]

My sense is that cannabis triggers an ignition of energy into a fire-like substance. This is related to ling. Trouble is, when this ignition is triggered chemically, it easily becomes an extreme that is controlled by the amount of chemical in one's system. Further, if the lower-vibration energies in the body have not been cultivated so that the ignited spiritual energies can receive and fuse with them, then these ignited spiritual energies quickly dissipate, at first causing us to feel "high," and when the high wears off and the energy has dissipated, it is easy to feel "low," easy to desire to feel "high" again. However, these energies need time to gather again, and if one chemically ignites this energy too often, one will experience diminishing returns.

 

Although Numinous (靈 ling) Mercury is the treasure of Heaven, by its nature it loves movement: "When it sees Fire if flies away." Unless you obtain True Lead to control it, it roams away without leaving traces. (Liu Yiming, tl Pregadio, Cultivating the Tao, chapter 8).

 

One needs to create this ignition on one's own. Then the fire can be properly managed and integrated without becoming a raging wildfire. Just like building a real fire by hand, without a lighter or match, one needs to work with deep sincerity, cultivating the appropriate internal environment until the inner heat ignites and transforms. It takes time to properly prepare one's vehicle for these higher level transformations. When one jumps ahead of the necessary steps for building a foundation, how can balance be achieved?

 

This "fire" like experience can help dissolve attachments, burning away the energetic patterns held in short term memory and opening more to heavenly knowledge. Too, this fire can clear away bonds with others, dissolving some of the social web we participate within - sometimes that is not really our intent. Again, we need understand how to achieve proper balance of these things on our own. Too much chemically induced fire can leave us depleted of fuel, all burnt up.

[flowconduit]

Taoist alchemy knows no use for cannabis

 

Although hemp is used in traditional chinese medicine

 

Medical uses for hemp in China has a long, documented, cultural history, using all parts of the plant — the seed, leaves, “juice” (oil), roots and flowers — in both oral and topical applications. Interestingly and perhaps controversially to some, there does not seem to be a strong tradition of smoking the cannabis flowers… where some texts considered that part of the plant to be poisonous. For the record, the earliest known references of hemp leaf medicinal tea is from 2700 BC while the earliest textual medical reference to using hemp seeds is from the 14th CE.

In Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), hemp is known as one of the 50 fundamental herbs. Hemp seed, known as Huo Ma Ren, is considered to have “sweet,” “neutral/ mild” properties, and is associated with the stomach, spleen and large intestines.

Because it has female and male plants hemp has both yin and yang energies. That said, the seed bearing plants, the females, are more highly valued, so hemp is sometime considered to be a yin plant. Of course, Taoist thought holds that everything in nature has both energies — yin and yang are best understood as interdependent forms of being and energy.

There are many uses of Huo Ma Ren (Hemp Seed). It is most commonly prescribed as a laxative and to lessen constipation. Other popular, traditional uses include pain relief, as a sedative and to treat with nausea and to relieve nervous disorders.

Forms vary, sometimes the hemp is crushed and powdered, other times taking whole, still other times mixed with honey, water, or other liquids (including wine!). This is only the tip of it, as hemp seed and leaves are often mixed with other herbs to treat a variety of ailments and conditions.

 

According to Jones’ classic book Nutritional and Medicinal Guide to Hemp Seed (1995), one medicinal formula for treating constipation with hemorrhoids includes hemp seeds, rhubarb, apricot, magnolia, penny root and the rind of an orange. Huo Ma Ren (Hemp Seed) is also used in association with acupuncture.

The dosage of hemp seed in a combination formula is between 9-15 grams (about 2-3 teaspoons); while as a main ingredient the dosage could be 45 grams, which is about three tablespoons.

The full range of uses for hemp in TCM are diverse and eclectic and according to the literature these also include (but is not limited to): use as a diuretic, in conditions related to childbirth, for destroying worms, as an anti-inflammatory, an antiseptic, as a menstrual corrective, and for treating edema.

Today, partly due to this rich tradition of TCM, Chinese companies possess just over 50% of the 606 patents filed for cannabis globally. As TCM is accepted in the West and is coming under western standards and regulations, there is a lot of opportunity to evaluate traditional formulations in research trials, laboratory analysis and pre-clinical and clinical studies. This kind of work is critical in making health claims in a modern legal context.

That said, the proteins, Essential Fatty Acide (EFA’s) and dietary fiber content of hemp seed are becoming very very well known, and simply eating hemp as part of a regular diet is certainly not just for sick people.

 

[Silent Answers]

Mary J gives us an inflated sense of ego and sensation, but in a way that allows self reflection, because of a greater awareness. This can lead to positive results in rebuilding the foundations of you.

 

Of course, it can be abused, and used for recreation. It can also trigger psychological problems in some.

 

As long as you understand its use as a tool...an occasional lift doesn't do much harm. When does it become too occasional? That's the trick.

[blue eyed snake]

Lately I've been wondering about the effects of cannabis and how it is viewed in CTM.  I know that it is considered to have medical applications, both in CTM and Western medicine, but I am more curious about its effects on healthy individuals in terms of spiritual/consciousness development rather than physical/health ways.

 

In my own practice, I know that there is definietly a potential for abuse.  Many people I know who use cannabis use it multiple times per day, or when they do it, smoke a large amount.  This is definitely not good, but I am wondering what people think about moderate use.

 

For me, besides being an aid when I have insomnia or digestive troubles, I find that it can put me in a creative/inspired headspace that is very nice.  Not that I need cannabis to be creative, but sometimes I can get a lot of insight or creativity when I smoke that I wouldn't get otherwise, which is a nice side-effect.  It can help me process emotional stuff and be gain new perspectives on my issues and life in general.  I meditate, exercise, have a good diet, and do other things also for self-work, but it is nice having another tool at my disposal.  I try to look at cannabis as a tool, not something that I need all the time, but it can be helpful in particular circumstances.  When I don't have it, it's not really a big deal.

 

I'm curious what other people's opinions are, especially people who have been practicing for a while or those who have talked to advanced teachers about it.  I feel like it is useful for me, as long as I'm not getting carried away or using it in situations which it is not appropriate (i.e. at work, social situations, when I'm trying to be really productive, etc.).  However, there is a part of me that is kind of like a monk and thinks that maybe it would be better if I cut out all drugs totally, ate a very simple diet, and lived a simple lifestyle.

 

yep...headspace...eh,

well, english is not my native language but my experience ( long ago but being dutch...  ) with cannabis is one that tends to get the spirit out of the body, where imho the idea of qigong and related stuff is to settle firmly in the body. Seems not a good combination therefore. 

Also I remember that what seemed to be whow ideas when i thought of them being stoned, lost much of their attractiveness when coolheaded again. 

 

But you don't hear me saying you should stop, everybody does his/her own thing in her own way and her own time. But i agree with Silent Answers that it ain't easy to see where the line between occasional and too much is...You might try to stop for 4 to 6 weeks and then take a smoke again, and feel what it is doing to you,

 

wish you an enjoyable life,

Bes

[Aetherous]

Smart and credentialed people on the forum have previously said that it causes the mingmen fire to flare up, draining your life force, among other things. Sorry I'm not motivated enough to search and find those posts. I recall that Eternal Student said it once.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Occasional use of cannabis is not harmful, but not necessarily beneficial either.  The problems arise with cannabis when people use it as unwitting "self-medication" of either hyper-activity or depression, for bi-polar people it works for them either way, but which only masks symptoms that should be dealt with directly, and anyone who finds themselves using it too much, should take this as a diagnostic indication, and look into conditions that need to be dealt to restore balance, such as heart or liver fire in the case of hyper-activity and liver fire with some types of depression and imbalances involving Lung/Liver or Kidney/Lung, with other types of depression.  These need to be dealt with on their own, and TCM has some good tools in this regard.

 

Purely for information purposes, cannabis has long history of use in Chinese spiritual practice, and even has its own Goddess, Magu, who as a high ranking member of the Court of Xiwangmu, is very respectable.  This group, the Way of Infinite Harmony, claims to be a surviving Temple of her traditional cult.  Used in these religious ways, its possible effects may be very different, but only someone with real experience of them could comment on this.  Professor Jerry Alan Johnson's book, Daoist Mineral, Plant and Animal Magic, has a long section, pages 262-277, on "visionary" plants, with page 268 devoted to cannabis, to which he gives mixed reviews.  As a person with lot of experience in both Chinese and Western magic, I cannot recommend idle experimentation with cannabis and magic, you need to lay a real foundation first and by the time you have done that, you will not need it, but then if you wish to, you can safely explore it.

 

As a passing note, NLP practitioners have a practice called Drug of Choice for reproducing the effects of any "visionary catalyst" which you might have taken in the past.

[LAOLONG]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bananadine

[futuredaze]

Thanks for the feedback.  I

 

Smart and credentialed people on the forum have previously said that it causes the mingmen fire to flare up, draining your life force, among other things. Sorry I'm not motivated enough to search and find those posts. I recall that Eternal Student said it once.

 

I'd be curious to hear more.  I've heard about studies that suggest cannabis can lower testosterone level, which ties into jing.  Personally, it's hard to take a lot of studies seriously since there is often an agenda which funds the research.

 

yep...headspace...eh,

well, english is not my native language but my experience ( long ago but being dutch...  ) with cannabis is one that tends to get the spirit out of the body, where imho the idea of qigong and related stuff is to settle firmly in the body. Seems not a good combination therefore. 

Also I remember that what seemed to be whow ideas when i thought of them being stoned, lost much of their attractiveness when coolheaded again. 

 

But you don't hear me saying you should stop, everybody does his/her own thing in her own way and her own time. But i agree with Silent Answers that it ain't easy to see where the line between occasional and too much is...You might try to stop for 4 to 6 weeks and then take a smoke again, and feel what it is doing to you,

 

wish you an enjoyable life,

Bes

 

I am going to try that.  I've done it before, go for 2-6 weeks without and cannabis and then have some.  The thing is, it's hard to gague.  Now that I'm older, I know what my limits are and don't do too much (I'm very sensitive to all substances from alcohol to caffeine).  Sometimes, it just makes me tired and introspective, which is not good for cultivation and meditation practice.  Sometimes, I find that being high is very meditative (with a twist), creative, social, or just really fun- a normal hike in the woods can feel like an epic adventure.  That's why I made this thread to begin with- because it does not seem obviously good nor bad for my practice.  Things like porn, fast food, and getting drunk, seem to be obvious hinderances.  Smoking a bit of ganja, though, is hard to tell!  I'm sure in time I will figure it out

 

What you say about it "getting the spirit out of the body" is true sometimes, I think, but not always.  IMO, there is a HUGE difference between smoking a puff or two and then smoking a whole joint of strong stuff.  A little bit can be like stretching the spirt, whereas too much puts it into comatose.

Edited June 24, 2015 by futuredaze

[Aetherous]

I'd be curious to hear more.

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/11975-marijuana-and-taoist-meditation/#entry148851

[futuredaze]

Smoking before meditation seems really counter-intuitive and wasteful.  I've done it before and it usually makes it harder to stay focused and go deep into meditative states.  I am wondering more about its use during recreation.  In meditation, I like to be light, unaltered, as clear as possible.  When I am aspiring towards creativity, sometimes having a chemical agent tweak my consciousness is helpful, whether that is yerba mate or a beer or a few puffs of ganja.

 

Now, perhaps b/c it's not good for meditation means it is not good generally.  I was thinking about that. However, meditating on a full stomach is not a good idea and that doesn't mean eating is bad now, does it?

Edited June 24, 2015 by futuredaze

[wilfred]

i've used cannabis regularly in the past and learning meditation have some new insights on what it's doing, in line with comments here and why it might not be beneficial.

 

namely intoxicants disturb the heart base and in this instance the heightened sense of awareness is artificial. in meditation terms it's totally 2d whereas with the heart being settled everything comes alive and has more depth. it's a fun plant, i always enjoyed it, but it's tuning you into it's own thing at the expense of your own gear which is more clear and penetrating. totally agree about the spirit being out of body and it sending your energy upward, a bad thing when the whole point of much of our practice is to be grounded and build up our energy centers. it offers an interesting perspective but without the ability to cultivate genuine insight.

 

it offers a lot of relief from bodily pain (can be addictive) and it's better than many medicines for lots of afflictions. but with the wrong temperament/lifestyle can be trouble, it's ultimately better to get the root of things than take refuge in being high. i still enjoy it, but reserved only for social, outgoing occasions. and that's only because i still have stuff to work through, ideally it wouldn't make much difference at all.

[Orion]

I find cannabis very stimulating, in a yang way. It never does for me what it does for other people. It suppresses my appetite, and it prevents me from sleeping. Using the chakra model, it is very third eye / crown for me, causing deep insight, even if I don't particularly feel like going there.

 

Originally, I found this kind of activation very useful, but like any entheogen or learning tool, you eventually max out. I don't consider myself to be some kind of guru, but when I have any now, I find it makes me revert to a lesser state of consciousness than I'm used to functioning at. So, either I've grown a lot over the years, or biochemically it is just no longer compatible. I'm generally a very grounded person and in the past few years whenever I've tried to revisit pot, I find that I can't feel the lower centres of my body. Everything goes up -- rising yang. I don't like it because I need those lower centres to feel present, and to access intuition.

 

I've worked in harm reduction and the dopamine agonist aspect of cannabis really burns people out over time if they have heavy intake. I've seen it. Fortunately the effect tends to be temporary, unless they really overdo it for a long time. I know people who can't handle *any* mind altering now, because their excessive pot used has made their dopamine system hypersensitive, which in turn makes them prone to anxiety and paranoia if they try to mind alter.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Orion

[futuredaze]

After having some time to digest this information, plus looking online for more sources, I have decided to not smoke anymore.

 

Western medicine is finding all sorts of uses for cannabis, for physical and psychological ailments.  I think for a long time I was using some of my medical conditions (insomnia, had Lyme disease two times) to justify getting high.  And although it is less harmful than alcohol, cocaine, etc. I shouldn't use that to justify my vice.  Hearing how cannabis can mess with my organs, energy levels, jing, and shen, I have totally re-evaluated my recreational use and want to be sober as I continue my practice.

 

Not that I will never have it again, but I am done doing it regularly/semi-regularly.  Thank you sll so much for your feedback, it has helped me make this decision!

[Aithrobates]

According to Ayurveda cannabis has to be used mixed with other plants balance its negative effects. Vacha (calamus root) is one of them. I love calamus, BTW Try searching "Ayurveda cannabis calamus" and you'll find the full list.

 

Maybe CTM has something similar ?

[Jonesboy]

It has it's positive and negative aspects to it.

 

It can have a negative effect in meditation because of the increased thoughts. It becomes easier to get caught up in them. Over time this gets easier to deal with but if you have trouble with that aspect in meditation then don't smoke before hand.

 

It can really increase the sensitivity to energy. This a real benefit when doing energy practices or just residing.

 

Negative emotions are energy as well and if dealing with strong anxiety don't smoke because it can increase the anxiety.

 

It also magnifies the after effects of a meditation session .

 

It can and with steady use block dreams.

 

It is part of the yoga shiva? Tradition where they have been smoking pot for a long time.

 

It has its plus and minuses and each individual would have to decide for themselves.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Jonesboy

[GreytoWhite]

Yes balancing the cannabis with other stuff is pretty important. Treat the liver well with lots of veggies, boost your kidneys with maca, make sure to have plenty of good fats in your diet for your nerves, stay hydrated. Dark chocolate for the lungs. Just remember it sends energy UP so you have to bring it down whilst in the midst of its effects.

[Spotless]

Grass will stay in someone's space for about two weeks.

 

If you do not know what you are looking at and you can "see" into someone's space you may think they are sick if they have been smoking grass recently as it often creates a brownish haze in the aura (generally a low vibration color at the onset of sickness and during very imbalanced times).

 

Grass will generally effect clarity issues and diminish clairvoyant capacities and clairaudience - and the whole head region including the area extending downward from behind the earlobes. It can also affect the wrists and hand energies.

 

The overall aura is less vibrant.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Spotless

[Grok]

I have used cannabis to push through certain thresholds. Depending on how it effects your system it can be used to enhance different perceptions that can be useful in expanding awareness. 

 

That being said, i agree it tends to dull the aura and diminish your expressions for days after. 

 

Its like using a step stool (cannabis) which causes the floor (consciousness) to sink for few days or so. Tricky tricky   .

 

All in all I am happy to have the tool in my kit, but generally don't touch it when I'm entering long periods of serious cultivation.

 

-grok

Edited July 8, 2015 by Grok

[Daeluin]

I've heard renshen is a good combination for balancing out the effects.

 

Too it is important to understand the five phase principles in operation. There is a fire like quality, and we know that fire burns where there is fuel. Different people distribute their energy in different patterns, and to different areas and systems. When this energy, this fuel, is ignited, it will burn in those places and cause different experiences. Just like wood burning where it has been placed in a fire pit is different than wood burning in a forest where it is even distributed.

 

So if people habitually set their intention on their fears, when they get high they are more likely to become paranoid. If one is consumed by thought in a normal state, perhaps they will be consumed by thoughts and insights when high. If one is empty, clear, and without desire perhaps one simply merges with their environment. This might help simplify understanding of why people who get high tend to have very different experiences from each other.

 

If people bring the energy low and concentrate it within the lower dan tien, perhaps when it ignites it is less likely to fly off in the same way, depending on how well one is able to regulate the amount of the fire. It might be interesting as a temporary spiritual aid, to help break one free of a fixed perception of the world, but one should not come to rely too strongly on any external substance.

 

Too, when something is burning, it is not always simple to make sudden changes in behavior or control one's focus, but the more one's energy fuel is refined the more possible this is.

 

Ultimately one should learn to accomplish these transformations on one's own, if one desires to experiment with them.

 

And as with any transformations, one should be mindful of how extreme one's momentum is changing, as this greatly influences one's foundation. When one has a history of extreme momentum changes, it is difficult to cultivate peace without being able to adapt and flow as one's momentum comes to points where it wants to make larger changes that one would rather not make.

[futuredaze]

The high of ganja seems to be "yin."  On the plus side, I am receptive- sometimes more open to the sensory world (although serious meditation is undoubtedly the better way to go about this), so things like walking around in the woods can seem a lot more "epic" and "awesome."  Sometimes it also helps me find empathy for people, but it can be overwhelming, as if I have no shielding.  On the negative side, I feel that I start to have some qualities like overly emotional, hypersensitive, mood swings.  I guess I can experience the best and worse parts of my "feminine side" on cannabis.

 

Compare this to other drugs, I would say things like caffeine and cocaine are more yang.  Psychedelics seem to just amplify the internal world, so they are harder to categorize.  I've never done sedatives, but they seem more yin as well.  Alcohol seems to be yang at first and then yin as the effects start to wear off.  Pot is a bit harder to place than downers and uppers, probably because it is a very complex plant with a lot of different psychoactive components.  For instance, the CBD-rich indica stuff is used medicinally more for anxiety, insomnia, whereas THC-rich sativa is used to treat depression.

 

Perhaps knowing one's internal balance is the first step to knowing how to relate with drugs.  If I did not sleep well, I  have no problem drinking coffee, but if it is nighttime that is a dumb thing to do.  Of course there are factors to keep in mind besides the yin/yang balance of drugs, such as side-effects, potential for abuse, and long term effects.  I feel a decent balance of yin/yang for the most part, so I think any regular use of drugs will throw off my balance.

Edited July 8, 2015 by futuredaze

[Spotless]

It is definitely a drug that effects people in radically different ways.

 

I don't know that I have ever met anyone using it that had a serious practice. But I am aware of some that have abused it and alcohol and many other things and yet they have Awakened while still using these things.

 

It is somewhat like vegetarianism - most in a serious practice move toward this and most are Vegan (I am not referring to Martial Arts - I am not very familiar with them). Yet certainly many that have Awakened are neither. Of those that have Awakened and have been in serious practice Veg or vegan is more typical than not especially in advanced practitioners. At a certain point grass, alchohol, coffee, meat, cheese, and many other things just drop from ones diet because they are no longer acceptable vibrations other than on rare occasions.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Spotless

[Grok]

It is definitely a drug that effects people in radically different ways.

 

I don't know that I have ever met anyone using it that had a serious practice. But I am aware of some that have abused it and alcohol and many other things and yet they have Awakened while still using these things.

 

It is somewhat like vegetarianism - most in a serious practice move toward this and most are Vegan (I am not referring to Martial Arts - I am not very familiar with them). Yet certainly many that have Awakened are neither. Of those that have Awakened and have been in serious practice Veg or vegan is more typical than not especially in advanced practitioners. At a certain point grass, alchohol, coffee, meat, cheese, and many other things just drop from ones diet because they are no longer acceptable vibrations other than on rare occasions.

 

I agree.

 

I would add, and in the spirit of my origin post on this thread, I think it can be useful tapping into different vibrations. But as Spotless pointed out, generally those aren't vibrations I wish (or feel a desire to) to be in while practicing serious cultivation. Of course that may change for me tomorrow depending on what "space" i'm trying to grok.

 

I also like the point raised by Spotless about meat, cheese, coffee as I definitely see a parallel in this discussion. Eating those kinds of foods will alter your vibration and in my life it depends on what "space/paradigm/energy" I want to be in at that point in time. I've lived both extremes when I've had different goals and objectives.

 

All this leads me back to my original point.

 

Depending on how we wish to expand/contract our perception/awareness/consciousness the good and the bad of these things are all relative. 

 

-grok