Sometimes I think that....

[Songtsan]

This whole place, and all its Rat Races, including all spiritual pursuits, is just a giant prison system, and that the only way out is not to participate in the least. The exit strategy seems simple:

 

-Cut off all efferent activity

-Disassociate from all afferent activity

-Withdraw into Self for all time

 

Not that it isn't interesting out here, but its endless scenes of fascinations, an endless Sea of Fascination.

 

This place will milk one of ones own essence, until one is bankrupt.

 

If one withdrew ones energies back into the shell for all time, one would exist for time immemorial..

 

Now, one can also gain energies while one is here of course...

 

The trick is to come and gain enough so that one can exist on the inside forever and a day....

 

How does one know when that point is reached though?

[FraterUFA]

What you are describing is mental illness. 

 

There is no escape from life.

 

Best,

UFA

[Yasjua]

Unlike Buddhism, which emphasizes the ugliness and bitterness of life, Taoism emphasizes the beauty of life.

 

According to true Buddhist teachings, all that is within the universe is a cause for suffering. There are eight causes for bitter suffering: birth, aging, sickness, death, not getting what you desire, getting things you do not desire, not being loved byt he one you love, and a loving relationship that cannot last.

 

The Buddhists found relief from their pain in the avoidance of the human pattern of life and in death. Since human beings are more often than not tortured by their emotions, they must cease to feel. Since human beigns suffer from indigestion after feasting, they must cease to feast. And so on. Thus enlightened Buddhists deny all mundane matters, including the existence fo teh universe. Buddhist teachings forbid participation in world affairs, for all must await death, through which the soul is emancipated from earthly sufferings.

 

However, Buddhists do not realize that, in seeking true happiness, they have caused themselves more pain. If a Buddhist adept shuns intercourse, he or she would have to fight sexual urges and temptations for fifty years or more. If the Buddhist adept shuns delicious foods, he or she would have to fight cravings for food throughout theri lives. So suffering cannot be avoided; human matters are more complex than what Buddhists have anticpated.

 

Buddhist classics group human beings into three groups, according to their understanding of the above concepts and they are: 1) the Multitude, 2) the Associates, 3) the Buddhists. The first group comprises unelinghted people who drown in a sea of bitter suffering. The second group comprises those are sympathetic to Bddhist teachings. The Third gorup comprises Buddhist monks or nuns. To become a real Buddhist one must break all worldly relationships (called leaving the family). Then they must attend Buddhist lectures, read Buddhist classics, meditate and practice isolation until death elevates the Buddhist to the level of Buddha. In death the "dirty bag" or physical body is kicked off and the Buddhist has achieved the highest state of being.

 

In direct contrast, Taoists acknowledge the existence of the universe and seek a thorough understanding o the universe. According to Taoist teachings, life is not fraught with misery nor is it replete with bliss. The universe is in a state of flux; therefore, misery is always succeeded by bliss and bliss is always succeeded by misery. Knowing this, one will never be too sad or too happy, one will comprehend the underlying forces of the universe, and one's eyes will be opened to the good in everything. The knowledge Taoists seek increases enjoyment of life, extends happiness, increases longevity, and helps making achieve immortality. Thus, Taoists are able to praise human relationships, feast without indigestion, engage in world affairs, and so on. Anyone who practices Taoist can experience heaven on Earth.

 

--The Great Tao by Dr. Stephen Chang (pg 49-50)

 

It sounds to me you're describing what Dr Chang identifies as the Buddhist response to life.

 

There is certainly a place for withdrawal - if you feel the world is milking you of your essence, like some kind of vampire, then perhaps you have (a) not withdrawn enough/claimed enough of your own energy, or ( are misperceiving the natural balance of give-and-take in your life, or © identifying with the introjected pathological elements of society.

 

You should not feel that the world is stealing from you, but that you are willfully (not willingly, which has an aura of submission) giving, due to the natural abundance of genuine value you hold within yourself, which is a matter of correct self-esteem. It also gives back (and you must receive), creating and supporting a state of harmony and wellness that suffuses your life (the universe) and every thing / everybody in it.

 

In my personal opinion, you are right about the rat race and even spiritual pursuits, and that you should therefore tread lightly and confidently in the world so as not to be pulled on by negative forces. But become the change that YOU need. If you need to turn off the lights and sit in the darkness of pre-consciousness, do so - there are yin/yang there, as well, only subtler and less manifest.

 

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Unlike Buddhism, which emphasizes the ugliness and bitterness of life[...]

--The Great Tao by Dr. Stephen Chang (pg 49-50)

To paraphrase Gil Fronsdal, Buddhism denies attachment to the world, not the world itself. The idea of dukkha is widely misunderstood, and the role/importance of pleasure in Buddhism barely acknowledged. See here for more detail if you want.

 

Anyway.

 

Songstan, what you're describing sounds like avoidance, not freedom. The problem isn't anything out there, or anything in here, but IMHO the grasping onto it and our sticky ideas about it.

[Aetherous]

What's described is not a way out..it's just a way to become homeless, at best. You'll find a lot of homeless people talking like you are.

 

The truth is...life is what you make it. What do you want your life to be like? That's the primary question to ask. What do you believe in? What do you enjoy? What do you feel that you deserve? How do you want to be known and remembered? Where do you most want to live? Etc.

The next most important question is: are you willing to do what's required to get these things? If you're not, then perhaps you don't truly want those things you thought you did. Maybe you want to be lazy and simply get by? Maybe life on the street isn't as appealing as being a pizza delivery guy.

Life is a prison only so long as you aren't doing what it takes to make it what you want...therefore, it's a self imposed prison. And if you have the opportunity and real possibility to make any kind of life you want, then how could this place possibly be called a "prison"? Perhaps it's just the attitude of wanting something for nothing that's imprisoning.

[dawei]

This whole place, and all its Rat Races, including all spiritual pursuits, is just a giant prison system, and that the only way out is not to participate in the least. The exit strategy seems simple:

 

-Cut off all efferent activity

-Disassociate from all afferent activity

-Withdraw into Self for all time

 

Not that it isn't interesting out here, but its endless scenes of fascinations, an endless Sea of Fascination.

 

This place will milk one of ones own essence, until one is bankrupt.

 

If one withdrew ones energies back into the shell for all time, one would exist for time immemorial..

 

Now, one can also gain energies while one is here of course...

 

The trick is to come and gain enough so that one can exist on the inside forever and a day....

 

How does one know when that point is reached though?

 

This is the self talking... and that same self is the one telling you to retreat into the shell.

 

So your 'self' is telling you go give up one prison for another (shell) ?

 

Maybe the point is reached when you stop listen to the 'self' talk.  It is self-preserving and will do anything to avoid having you let go of that last line of ownership over you.

 

This seems a rather common strategy of the 'self' when it feels threatened on a certain level.

[Songtsan]

It sounds to me you're describing what Dr Chang identifies as the Buddhist response to life.

 

There is certainly a place for withdrawal - if you feel the world is milking you of your essence, like some kind of vampire, then perhaps you have (a) not withdrawn enough/claimed enough of your own energy, or ( are misperceiving the natural balance of give-and-take in your life, or © identifying with the introjected pathological elements of society.

 

You should not feel that the world is stealing from you, but that you are willfully (not willingly, which has an aura of submission) giving, due to the natural abundance of genuine value you hold within yourself, which is a matter of correct self-esteem. It also gives back (and you must receive), creating and supporting a state of harmony and wellness that suffuses your life (the universe) and every thing / everybody in it.

 

In my personal opinion, you are right about the rat race and even spiritual pursuits, and that you should therefore tread lightly and confidently in the world so as not to be pulled on by negative forces. But become the change that YOU need. If you need to turn off the lights and sit in the darkness of pre-consciousness, do so - there are yin/yang there, as well, only subtler and less manifest.

 

 

THIS.

[Songtsan]

Havent read all the replies...I was just alerting y'all to a state of mind I had today....it will not last - they never do....

[seekingbuddha]

Havent read all the replies...I was just alerting y'all to a state of mind I had today....it will not last - they never do....

Songstan,

     Don't  be  disheartened. There is truth in what you said originally.  But those words you spoke need to approached cautiously, with reverance, with the right frame of mind (Right View).  This Right View is to be combined with Right effort (practice), which is what all the indian yogis do in the forests/mountains.  But i suspect you are not ready to give it all up and go into a forest.  If you do, then you will know when you have reached Liberation to the extent your mind seeks. At that point, your heart will overflow with the wisdom of kindness, joy, equanimity and compassion.  You will reach out to all beings with this liberated mind, which is not easy to attain.  

 

Since this is not easy to attain for ordinary humans like us, the only thing we can do is to take one day at a time - a single step, a simple practice in the right direction  that has been given to us by the wisest of the wise to ever walk on this earth.....our great spiritual teachers, who have spoken of how to live an ordinary good life.  They taught us that despair and worry are unwholesome  states of mind that need to be abandoned.

 

What have we got to lose by practicing their teachings, a little at a time ? You have already understood that the rat race ends sooner or later. Assuming that we know how to live our lives, living contrary to the teaching of the wisest, only shows ego/stupidity/ignorance/self-importance.  The  right-living  will not only have good influence on yourself, but also will affect those around you (family, friends, children, etc).   Of  course, you understand much of these things,  which is one reason why you hang out here with Sat-sung.

Edited June 25, 2015 by seekingbuddha

[Songtsan]

I am just waiting to get off parole so I can start my spiritual journey in earnest. I have an 8pm - 8am curfew until the end of the year.....I really want to join a monastery badly. I a just soul weary.

[seekingbuddha]

I am just waiting to get off parole so I can start my spiritual journey in earnest. I have an 8pm - 8am curfew until the end of the year.....I really want to join a monastery badly. I a just soul weary.

 

That's perfectly ok.  Buddha has said that when  someone endures lot of suffering, it results in one of 2 things.....either the mind is baffled (i don't remember the exact words, but  I interpret this to mean that the person goes mad)  OR  the mind starts searching for an end to the suffering.   The second choice automatically  leads you into the prescribed path of renunciation and dhamma.  But, as i mentioned before,  I think  that  renunciation has to be approached cautiously, with reverence, with the right frame of mind (Right View).  Do  not think that it is an easy way out (of the world and its problems).   

[Perceiver]

The problem is not the rat race. The problem is how you relate to the rat race.

 

You can participate in it to the max, but just with a different perspective.